Logic and accountability

[Tank]

Baby died after St Johns "Dicked Around" says a family member.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2308635/Cherish-died-after-St-John-delay/

Unforgivably (as is so often the case) the same family members fails to note that their own family is under investigation for the murder of the child, who died of massive head injury's.

But - hey lets blame St Johns huh.

How do people look at themselves and family?? Are they really so shortsighted and whanau orientated that they cannot see what they are doing?????

[Grahameeboy]

Sorry who was dicking around first....who caused the head injuries...sad that St John's end up being bashed over this...

[Mom]

I hear you loud and clear mate, sickens me to the core every single time we hear about another innocent damaged or killed in the care of his or her family. Sadly it appears that this poor child would not have survived even had the abulance service been efficient.

I am pleased there is an investigation into the service standards though, if there are shortcomings they need to be identified and resolved.

[vifferman]

Regardless of how 'people look at themselves and family', there is an increasing tendency for the great unwashed masses to blame others rather than accept personal responsibility/accountability. Unfortunately, this is actually nurtured by the gummint and type of society we have.
Every time 'something' untoward happens, the cry goes up: "The Gummint should do summat about this! There should be a law agin it!" etc etc., instead of, "what implications does this have for me? What should I do about it?"
Even the media (despite their criticism of the Gummint) encourage this, wanting people to look to them for information and answers (which are, of course, bent to their agenda, not impassive reporting of the truth).

[Mully]

I did read that, and had a bittersweet laugh.

The report didn't say if the person arrested was a relative, but I think most of us can join the dots.......

But it must be St John's fault that the kid died. Surely. I'm pretty sure an Ambo went to the house, smacked the kid around the head a few times, and then wasted a couple of hours before taking it to hospital.

[Finn]

Come on guys, you're being very harsh on these poor people. They simply don't understand the law. All it says is that you are not allowed to "smack" your kids. Punching, kicking, beating, torture, starving and stabbing are all okay. Until us privileged white folk introduce new laws covering each of the possible categories, common folk are simply running blind.

[Number One]

Too damn sad...how can anyone hurt their kids like this....makes me sick to my stomach. St Johns fault? FFS just shoot these people already they are the worst kind of animals.

[Storm]

I'm going to get shit on for this, but I could help but notice the skin colour of the child and draw certain conclusions(ie prejudices) over how any ensuing investigation will go, due to the "whanau" having a different worldview to a lot of us here.
That said, I hope I'm wrong and the filthy cunts responsible get hung out to dry, by a judge with the nuts to make a worthwhile sentence, and no special race/culture based treatment.
R.I.P little girl

[Storm]

While I'm in a ranting mood, I'm not surprised that St John is stretched well past breaking point- its a volunteer service providing a vital national service. Fuck pouring money into government salaries and assorted pointless shit, theres a budget that could use a hefty cash injection

[Burtha]

Agreed, a few small bullets could go a long way sometimes, but I hate the fact that morally it is wrong to pull the trigger - dang it!
It is quite sickening.
Is is a small mercy that the baby girl has left us early rather than survived and lived a possible life of further torture?

[MSTRS]

Come on guys, you're being very harsh on these poor people. They simply don't understand the law. All it says is that you are not allowed to "smack" your kids. Punching, kicking, beating, torture, starving and stabbing are all okay. Until us privileged white folk introduce new laws covering each of the possible categories, common folk are simply running blind.
Gotta cross those T's and dot those I's

Agreed, a few small bullets could go a long way ...

Just one can do the job, if you line 'em up just right.

[Storm]

Just one can do the job, if you line 'em up just right.

A 50 cal from 1/2 an inch away?
I like your thinking

[dipshit]

Sounds like motorcyclists that ride like cocks in heavy traffic then blame cage drivers for their misfortunes.

[98tls]

Ironic she was known as Cherish eh.Same ole same ole methinks,its only going to get worse for sure.

[Usarka]

Don't blame St John but be a bit concerned in case you or a close one need an ambulance at some stage.

[slofox]

Regardless of how 'people look at themselves and family', there is an increasing tendency for the great unwashed masses to blame others rather than accept personal responsibility/accountability. Unfortunately, this is actually nurtured by the gummint and type of society we have.
Every time 'something' untoward happens, the cry goes up: "The Gummint should do summat about this! There should be a law agin it!" etc etc., instead of, "what implications does this have for me? What should I do about it?"
Even the media (despite their criticism of the Gummint) encourage this, wanting people to look to them for information and answers (which are, of course, bent to their agenda, not impassive reporting of the truth).

This has been going on for all 60 years of my life at least...and I doubt it will change any time soon...

[Number One]

Sounds like motorcyclists that ride like cocks in heavy traffic then blame cage drivers for their misfortunes.
This is about an innocent child tragically taken before their time.

Take your anti biker protesting elsewhere - FFS!

[dipshit]

This is about an innocent child tragically taken before their time.

Take your anti biker protesting elsewhere - FFS!

Funny how everybody can start talking crap about logic and accountability all of a sudden when its somebody else.

[Number One]

Funny how everybody can start talking crap about logic and accountability all of a sudden when its somebody else.
Honestly you are aptly named. Such disrespect in the case of a murdered child sickens me...I shouldn't really be surprised by this from you by now though should I :rolleyes:

[dipshit]

Honestly you are aptly named. Such disrespect in the case of a murdered child sickens me...I shouldn't really be surprised by this from you by now though should I :rolleyes:


:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

Oh no! And here was a group of people that were going fix all the problems in NZ by talking a lot of arse in an internet forum.

[Number One]

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

Oh no! And here was a group of people that were going fix all the problems in NZ by talking a lot of arse in an internet forum.
What I would like to say to you would earn me an infraction which I currently can't afford...so I will hold back.

But again the fact that you seem to think that every thread is an opportunity to flog your 'message' is sad. Get a life

[Katman]

What I would like to say to you would earn me an infraction which I currently can't afford


I did wonder why I've started to get the impression you've been going easy on me.

:sweatdrop

[Number One]

I did wonder why I've started to get the impression you've been going easy on me.

:sweatdrop
Actually I haven't seen you lately...you been living in the real world a bit more?

Or is that piss of yours no longer turning to icicles before it hits the floor :lol:

Still think that was quote of the year!!!

[Katman]

Or is that piss of yours no longer turning to icicles before it hits the floor :lol:

Still think that was quote of the year!!!

It was ice cubes actually.

I'm thinking of late it bears more resemblance to dry ice.

[Number One]

It was ice cubes actually.

I'm thinking of late it bears more resemblance to dry ice.
You should get that seen to! :eek:

[dipshit]

Hearing people go on and on about accountability blah blah blah in one thread then in another ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=96250 ) help someone wheeze out of responsibility for damaging other peoples vehicles like it's no big deal... shows people just talk crap.

[Mom]

Sounds like motorcyclists that ride like cocks in heavy traffic then blame cage drivers for their misfortunes.

And this is to do with the topic how? Far Canal mate, you take the friggen cake on this.

Actually where is your head at the moment, obviously on another planet. Yet another little girl is dead at the hands of someone reported to be her grandmother. It was a fucken paramedic that raised the alarm about the delay in getting official help for her, and this thread is talking about the sick fucks that are her family spokespeople :sick: commenting on the delay in getting her help.


Take your gospel according to Dipshit and shove it right up there the sun does not shine. Cock!

Edited again: Forgot to change the spelling of there.

[McDuck]

Hearing people go on and on about accountability blah blah blah in one thread then in another ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=96250 ) help someone wheeze out of responsibility for damaging other peoples vehicles like it's no big deal... shows people just talk crap.

Dude.... i still have not figured out how you made that connection....





























I'VE GOT IT!!!!

The ambo was being held up by the mormon few doing stunts on the motorway!

[dipshit]

Actually where is your head at the moment, obviously on another planet. Yet another little girl is dead at the hands of someone reported to be her grandmother.

Yeah yeah yeah... and everybody always acts all shocked and outraged *every time* this happens, with calls to stop family violence and rallies in the streets etc etc.

Like that is going to make any difference.

[Katman]

I wish everyone became as outraged when a motorcyclist kills someone (yes, even themselves) through irresponsible stupidity.

I think that's what dipshit is alluding to.

[Mom]

Yeah yeah yeah... and everybody always acts all shocked and outraged *every time* this happens, with calls to stop family violence and rallies in the streets etc etc.

Like than is going to make any difference.

OK you stupid man, the post I picked you up on has nothing to do with a little girl being killed by her family at all, it is


Sounds like motorcyclists that ride like cocks in heavy traffic then blame cage drivers for their misfortunes.

WTF? does your opinion that motorcyclists ride like cocks and blame car drivers when they come to grief have to do with the issue, you are waste of bandwidth ( I am attempting to be polite)



I wish everyone became as outraged when a motorcyclist kills someone (yes, even themselves) through irresponsible stupidity.

I think that's what dipshit is alluding to.

And I really was begining to think better of you, take your spin on us bad as buggery, hooning fucken motorcyclists and go fluffel up a friggen gum tree! This is no platform to voice your we are all bad opinion :bash:

[Ms Piggy]

Yeah yeah yeah... and everybody always acts all shocked and outraged *every time* this happens, with calls to stop family violence and rallies in the streets etc etc.

Like than is going to make any difference.

Ah hem. Excuse me but it does. It may not make in a earth shattering. Headline grabbing way but it does.

Actually that's what rips my undies the most about people that say "nothing ever works"...it's cos you never give it a frickin' chance!! It will (very sadly) probably take a couple of generations before the changes may very obvious.

You want it to change immediately! Arrrggghhhhh, it don't work like that. If it did every Child, Youth and Family intervention into a troubled family would work wouldn't it??! You can't just do 'A' and 'B' and expect the perfect outcome...cripes!! It would be so super dooper if life was like that but it isn't.

That's why a beautiful little girl wasn't cherished as she should have been and was killed by a family member...actually that's probably too simplistic a view.

[Katman]

And I really was begining to think better of you, take your spin on us bad as buggery, hooning fucken motorcyclists and go fluffel up a friggen gum tree! This is no platform to voice your we are all bad opinion :bash:

Before you go getting all morally indignant on me I'll remind you of a 7 year old child killed by being hit by a motorcyclist.

I don't see anyone on here still demanding answers to that incident. Is a couple of weeks all it takes to consign that sort of occurance to yesterday's news?

[Mom]

Before you go getting all morally indignant on me I'll remind you of a 7 year old child killed by being hit by a motorcyclist.

I don't see anyone on here still demanding answers to that incident. Is a couple of weeks all it takes to consign that sort of occurance to yesterday's news?

Cool, so that is good enough reason to bag bikers on this totally unrelated thread. :tugger:

This thread is nothing to do with that either. Tell you what, here is a really novel idea :yes:

Start your own thread about the fact that that no body is demanding answers, you are good at starting threads like that. I will ignore it of course.

Seriously do it.

[Katman]

Hypocrisy is alive and kicking on KB.

Some things never change.

[MsKABC]

Hypocrisy is alive and kicking on KB.

Some things never change.

I hear what you're saying Katman, but Mom & Number One are calling you and Dipshit on the fact that you are derailing this thread to your own personal end of beating motorcyclists over the helmet. Enough already.

[Katman]

I hear what you're saying Katman, but Mom & Number One are calling you and Dipshit on the fact that you are derailing this thread to your own personal end of beating motorcyclists over the helmet. Enough already.

Remind me - this is a motorcycle website, isn't it?

[MsKABC]

Remind me - this is a motorcycle website, isn't it?

Wassamatter? You too old to remember? :Pokey:

[Katman]

Wassamatter? You too old to remember? :Pokey:

Remember what?

:wacko:

[Mom]

I hear what you're saying Katman, but Mom & Number One are calling you and Dipshit on the fact that you are derailing this thread to your own personal end of beating motorcyclists over the helmet. Enough already.

Weird eh, I thought it was obvious too.

Poor little girl raised by a family that either dont know how to, or dont care to raise this little baby in safety. Her grandmother is in custody you know, I simply can not imagine how you could ever hurt a grandbaby.

[Mom]

Remind me - this is a motorcycle website, isn't it?

Check out the forum this was posted in. Rant or Rave, taqlk about non mororcycle topics here. Buzz off eh!

[MsKABC]

Weird eh, I thought it was obvious too.

Poor little girl raised by a family that either dont know how to, or dont care to raise this little baby in safety. Her grandmother is in custody you know, I simply can not imagine how you could ever hurt a grandbaby.

I would like to give the family the benefit of the doubt and assume they knew nothing about what was going on, and are therefore justified in their complaints re the ambo service, but I'm struggling to do that. :(

Re a grandparent harming their child, it is incomprehensible to me when I've seen our parents with our son - you have never seen such joy and love.

There is something seriously wrong with human society. :weep:

[Katman]

Check out the forum this was posted in. Rant or Rave, taqlk about non mororcycle topics here. Buzz off eh!

Hey, I love kids - but I couldn't eat a whole one.

[MsKABC]

Hey, I love kids - but I couldn't eat a whole one.

I'd like to say the same about Katanas, but I don't eat junk food.

[fire eyes]

Baby died after St Johns "Dicked Around" says a family member.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2308635/Cherish-died-after-St-John-delay/

Unforgivably (as is so often the case) the same family members fails to note that their own family is under investigation for the murder of the child, who died of massive head injury's.

But - hey lets blame St Johns huh.

How do people look at themselves and family?? Are they really so shortsighted and whanau orientated that they cannot see what they are doing?????


I was saddened to read this article. When will it end. What are the solutions.

Child Abuse .. so prevelent.

[98tls]

Weird eh, I thought it was obvious too.

Poor little girl raised by a family that either dont know how to, or dont care to raise this little baby in safety. Her grandmother is in custody you know, I simply can not imagine how you could ever hurt a grandbaby.
We reap what we sow,methinks future harvests will be more fruitful,shit like this will only cause the do-gooders and tree hugging social worker types to scream we need more taxpayers $ to fix the problem,the nutless government will indeed suck more from the worthy in a vain attempt to fix the supposed problem and further down the dunny we go.The answer? buggered if i know,theres suburbs of scumbuckets like these people all over the country.Like i said,we reap what we sow.

[dipshit]

WTF? does your opinion that motorcyclists ride like cocks and blame car drivers when they come to grief have to do with the issue,



"Logic and accountability"

"Baby died after St Johns "Dicked Around" says a family member.

Unforgivably (as is so often the case) the same family members fails to note that their own family is under investigation for the murder of the child, who died of massive head injury's.

But - hey lets blame St Johns huh."

"Regardless of how 'people look at themselves and family', there is an increasing tendency for the great unwashed masses to blame others rather than accept personal responsibility/accountability. Unfortunately, this is actually nurtured by the gummint and type of society we have."


"Sounds like motorcyclists that ride like cocks in heavy traffic then blame cage drivers for their misfortunes"

"Logic and accountability" :weird:

[98tls]

Then again Dip theres a "rant n rave" forum and theres a "general bike ravings" forum.

[dipshit]

Actually that's what rips my undies the most about people that say "nothing ever works"...it's cos you never give it a frickin' chance!! It will (very sadly) probably take a couple of generations before the changes may very obvious.

. . :msn-wink:

[dipshit]

Then again Dip theres a "rant n rave" forum and theres a "general bike ravings" forum.


And i can "rant n rave" as the best of them.

[Usarka]

I've hit "View Post" a few times in this thread, and have been reminded how much I love the ignore function :msn-wink:

[Katman]

I've hit "View Post" a few times in this thread, and have been reminded how much I love the ignore function :msn-wink:

"View Post" makes a mockery of the ignore function, doesn't it?

:msn-wink:

[Tank]

Katman, Dipshit.

Normally I (kinda) agree with you - however in this case I think you guys are on a soapbox that has no place in this thread / conversation is pathetic.

You achieve nothing doing what you have here other to lower peoples opinion of you and to lessen the impact of your message - because (simply put) you come across as simple, sad little men.

Your message has more impact when used when appropriate.

[Ms Piggy]

We reap what we sow,methinks future harvests will be more fruitful,shit like this will only cause the do-gooders and tree hugging social worker types to scream we need more taxpayers $ to fix the problem,the nutless government will indeed suck more from the worthy in a vain attempt to fix the supposed problem and further down the dunny we go.The answer? buggered if i know,theres suburbs of scumbuckets like these people all over the country.Like i said,we reap what we sow.

I find it amusing that people berate those at the coal face when they know sweet FA about what it's really like to be working with a family where violence and abuse are the norm.

Oh yes we're all horrified and saddened (rightly so) but want someone else to sort it. Those "do-gooders and tree hugging social worker types" you are quick to criticise are working really hard and it's attitudes like yours that don't help.

I agree we do reap what we sow, and for me that means a society that won't take responsibility for what is happening to the most vulnerable members is now reaping the consequences of that. Then that same society throws up their hands in dismay and blames those trying (and at times struggling) to support change with inadequate resources and an "it's not my problem" attitude from some of society.

Sorry No.1 and Mom I know this is off the topic of why you started this thread.

[Number One]

Sorry No.1 and Mom I know this is off the topic of why you started this thread.
No honey you are actually responding to explain/outline an underlying issue related to this threads topic and you aren't using it as an opportunity to rant and rave about your thoughts on what is wrong with the motorcycling community (which isn't what this thread was about)...so you ARE on topic. I can understand and appreciate your frustration :hug:

BTW - we didn't start the thread...

[Mom]

Sorry No.1 and Mom I know this is off the topic of why you started this thread.

NO you are sort of bang on topic mate! I fostered kids for many years, seen some fairly disgusting things perpetrated by caring families, and I understand the dynamics of family violence quite well.

The issue the OP raises is interesting in that a family spokesman said it was the delay in an ambulance getting to the little girl that was the problem, now that was part of the problem (St John admitted unacceptable delays on Radio Live yesterday) certainly, but does not for one second take away from the bottom line, a child killed in the care of her family.

I take my hat off to you really, your job is not easy, hope you get really good support from your employer.

[MSTRS]

It was ice cubes actually.

I'm thinking of late it bears more resemblance to dry ice.

Good analogy....all visual and no substance.
Like the mockery by some of those who are trying to turn things around for kids caught up in the abuse cycle, even if it's 'only' talking about it.
Family violence is as old as human existence, it flourishes when ignored (pretend it doesn't happen) and if talking about it, and exposing it when/where-ever, helps to change people's attitudes to it, then bring on the talk.

[dipshit]

Katman, Dipshit.

Normally I (kinda) agree with you - however in this case I think you guys are on a soapbox that has no place in this thread / conversation is pathetic.

You achieve nothing doing what you have here other to lower peoples opinion of you and to lessen the impact of your message - because (simply put) you come across as simple, sad little men.

Your message has more impact when used when appropriate.


Oh no, how dreadful! :shit:

[Patch]

It ain't just the physical abuse one must be concerned about, but mental abuse also (which imo does more damage)