Great news

[Tank]

Helping to fix the racial divide in NZ the Green party are proposing a parallel justice system - just for Maori - aimed at (get this) reducing the unjust imprisonment of many Maori.

http://www.greens.org.nz/node/20880

"A parallel Maori justice system will be proposed by Green Party Law and Order/Maori Affairs Spokesperson Metiria Turei at tomorrow’s Crime Summit.

“Because Maori are more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested rather than cautioned, and receive higher sentences than Pakeha offenders, Maori crime and imprisonment rates are elevated,” Mrs Turei said today.

“The establishment of a Maori justice system that runs alongside the existing legal system – using the education system as a model – will help to eliminate the impact of this systemic racial profiling, reduce the unjust imprisonment of many Maori and stem Maori reoffending.”


What a brilliant idea. I also suggesting a While, Male, High income earner, married with kids parallel justice system.

Ill be the judge and Finn can be the guy who hands out the punishments.

[Headbanger]

Sounds like an excellent way to spend untold billions,futher divide the country, and stop the inhuman practise of punishing the bastards.

Woohoo for apartheid.

Next they will be getting their own footpaths.

[Mully]

Isn't the justice system already predominantly Maori?
What? Oh, never mind.

And who cares what the Greens think anymore?? Can anyone say "third wheel"?

[BOGAR]

At a huge risk of being flamed or worse but.....
If we are dividing things, are we having separate busses and if not who gets to sit at the back. :dodge:I think there was a great idea like this years ago but I forget now how well that went.:Pokey: P/T

Sounds like another pass the blame game to me. But oh wait somehow this is all my fault. FFS
Go the Greens



Not!


Sorry but having a bad day today and I normally would keep these things to myself.

[Dooly]

The Greens truly are numpty heads.

[MsKABC]

Not that I necessarily think it's a good idea, but to be fair, it will not be only for Maori. At least that's what the sound bite I heard on the radio today said.

Let's face it though - the current system isn't working (70% re-offending level), so we DO need to try something different.

Suggestions, anyone?

[P38]

I think it's a bloody great idea.

We can apply "User Pays Principals" to this parallel justice system and thereby reduce taxes for the Majority of NZers :yes::yes:

Go the Greenies :Punk::Punk::Punk:

I'm looking forward to the Motorcyclists only parallel justice sysytem too.

[MSTRS]

“Because Maori are more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested rather than cautioned, and receive higher sentences than Pakeha offenders, Maori crime and imprisonment rates are elevated,” Mrs Turei said today.

I wonder if that is because more of them indulge in nefarious and violent activities...


- the current system isn't working (70% re-offending level) -



A rope would help with lots of that

[MsKABC]

A rope would help with lots of that

Reusable too :yes:

[Swoop]

Hang your heads in shame, anyone who voted for these green fuckwits.

I would like to suggest an "Open Season" on green party members. :ar15: No bag limit would apply... apart from sue badford, whom we already know is a horrible old bag.

[rainman]

Hang your heads in shame, anyone who voted for these green fuckwits.

Um, that would be me, and I'm quite happy about the choice (better than the other options, certainly). I am at a bit of a loss to understand this policy though - wondered if it was April 1st, but apparently not.

Fortunately us Greenies voters can vote Green without supporting every molecule of the party line. :whocares:

[MSTRS]

Fortunately us Greenies voters can vote Green without supporting every molecule of the party line.

Sorry to burst your bubble (animal product free soap bubble?) but a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies. Even the ones they didn't mention before they got your vote.

[Laava]

Fuck this! I'm moving to South Africa!

[Lias]

Let's face it though - the current system isn't working (70% re-offending level), so we DO need to try something different.

Suggestions, anyone?


Capital punishment
Corporal punishment
Smaller cells
Disallowing posessions in cells beyond basic necessities (No TV's, playstations, stereos, etc)
Ensuring that prison is about punishment, not "reducation". Make prison a hell on earth.
Import Joe Arpaio and make him corrections minister.
Remove police batons, tasers, mace etc. Arm them all with powerful handguns, give them orders to kill anyone who resists arrest. Would drastically lower the number of people in our prisons.

[Skyryder]

Just another reason why I'm not a Greenie. Mind you I can not for the love of me see any political advantage for the Green's to have this policy. They are not going to attract Maori votes and the policy is likely to alenaiate 'middle' New Zealand.


Skyryder

[Mom]

Fortunately us Greenies voters can vote Green without supporting every molecule of the party line. :whocares:

The ignorance of some voters astounds me.

Who cares? I DO!!!


Sorry to burst your bubble (animal product free soap bubble?) but a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies. Even the ones they didn't mention before they got your vote.

Gee, you say it better than me.

As I dont generally get involved with political threads I will stay out of this one, but FFS! I fear there are too many of the above thinking voters about the place really.

[cowpoos]

Helping to fix the racial divide in NZ the Green party are proposing a parallel justice system - just for Maori - aimed at (get this) reducing the unjust imprisonment of many Maori.

http://www.greens.org.nz/node/20880

"A parallel Maori justice system will be proposed by Green Party Law and Order/Maori Affairs Spokesperson Metiria Turei at tomorrow’s Crime Summit.

“Because Maori are more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested rather than cautioned, and receive higher sentences than Pakeha offenders, Maori crime and imprisonment rates are elevated,” Mrs Turei said today.

“The establishment of a Maori justice system that runs alongside the existing legal system – using the education system as a model – will help to eliminate the impact of this systemic racial profiling, reduce the unjust imprisonment of many Maori and stem Maori reoffending.”


What a brilliant idea. I also suggesting a While, Male, High income earner, married with kids parallel justice system.

Ill be the judge and Finn can be the guy who hands out the punishments.
we seem to be the only country in the world thats trying to achive segragation...the rest of the world has moved away from it.....

What a fucking joke!! they arn't a green party...they are a flippying radical socialist communist party!!! what was thier last enviromental policy?? Hitlers third reich had much move extensive enviromental policys...and yet strangly similar social policys...don't agree...go and do some research on google!!

[BMWST?]

Just another reason why I'm not a Greenie. Mind you I can not for the love of me see any political advantage for the Green's to have this policy. They are not going to attract Maori votes and the policy is likely to alenaiate 'middle' New Zealand.


Skyryder

you dont think that they may have stated their actual thoughts about a policy/situation rather than spin it up so much that only those inside the system actually know what they are on about?

[rainman]

Sorry to burst your bubble (animal product free soap bubble?) but a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies.


The ignorance of some voters astounds me.


Me too.

Ok, let's run this through from the top.

Say there are three parties, G, B and R. For simplicity say there's only a party vote. Say they all have 10 policies on the same 10 major policy areas. Say also that a voter looks at all of their policies in detail and scores which ones they agree with and which ones they don't. For further simplicity pretend the policies are atomic, and each question has a simple yes/no answer. Say the scores come back G 7/10, B 2/10, R 4/10. So the voter places their one vote with G - the option of not voting being for teh loserz - because they feel that they are the most likely to represent their views in parliament. That being the point, and all.

Notice there is no party that scores 10/10.

Let's assume G wins sufficient power to start getting some of their policies implemented. Say the first one they implement is one of the 3 that our voter actually, individually, does not support or agree with. In the world of representative democracy, the term for this situation is "tough shit". If G implements all of the policies that the voter does not like, changes their minds on 4 of the 7 that he/she does like etc, then next election the voter chooses to vote for someone else. (The same term is used for that, too). The voter's brain does not explode, even though they still don't like the policy, possibly even for deep-seated reasons.

Note, despite simplifying everything right down, we still have a situation where the voter can hold the view of not liking policies 8, 9 and 10 (even quite strongly), while still thinking G are the best people to give his/her support to. All the time without their brain exploding.

The real world is like that too, just a lot more complex.


Jeez, no wonder MMP doesn't work in NZ.

[Mom]

Me too.



Jeez, no wonder MMP doesn't work in NZ.

Never voted for the system anyway, no surprise it does not work.

[rainman]

Never voted for the system anyway, no surprise it does not work.

I was being a bit cheeky.

I know you said you don't post in pol threads but do you seriously feel you have to agree with every half-arsed idea your pet flavour of pollies dreams up, just cos you voted for them? (99% of them are idiots!)

I find that frankly astounding. Actually I blame it on the rugby culture, people fell they have to support "their team" No Matter What. :)

[Headbanger]

i was being a bit cheeky.

I know you said you don't post in pol threads but do you seriously feel you have to agree with every half-arsed idea your pet flavour of pollies dreams up, just cos you voted for them? (99% of them are idiots!)

i find that frankly astounding. Actually i blame it on the rugby culture, people fell they have to support "their team" no matter what. :)


go the blacks!!!!!!

[Mom]

I was being a bit cheeky.

I know you said you don't post in pol threads but do you seriously feel you have to agree with every half-arsed idea your pet flavour of pollies dreams up, just cos you voted for them? (99% of them are idiots!)

I find that frankly astounding. Actually I blame it on the rugby culture, people fell they have to support "their team" No Matter What. :)

NO I dont have to agree with every half baked idea that any party I vote for might have as policy.

But I sure as shit would not give my vote to a party who's policies I did not predominantly agree with either. To vote for a party on one or two vote attracting policies is ignorant in the extreme.

You admit you vote Green, cool, may you live with the fall out of their influence as I who did not vote for them have to also.

The end.

[tri boy]

In the 90's, the West Australian Govt allowed Aborigines to administer tribal punishment to desert tribal members.
This involved in some cases, what many would see as abhorrent punishment. (offender being in the middle of a circle, while members of the tribe threw spears at him).
This was reserved for Rape, Murder, Child molestation.
Lesser crimes were given lesser punishments.
The PC brigade stepped in, and to my knowledge, the practice has ceased, (at least as far as the white fulla's know anyhow).

The upshot was, that tribal members felt more empowered to control their people, and to a certain extent, tribal violence was reduced.
These practices could only be used on remote missions but you never heard the tribes complaining about the severity of their punishment system.

Let NZ Maori arm themselves with tribal weapons, and set a bit of local whoop arse on their own offenders.
The results might surprise us.

[rainman]

Never voted for the system anyway, no surprise it does not work.

Sorry to double reply, but I think you just explained one of life's great mysteries. I live on the Shore, Murray McCully's electorate. Now, a more useless waste of space as an electorate MP you would truly struggle to find - yet 20,151 people voted for him. :doh:

I can actually understand people voting Nat. I just can't understand people voting Murray. Since 21,681 voted Nat, I can now conclude that only about 1,530 right-wingers have a clue around here, which is probably NZF plus Family Party etc. Scary.

Interesting Greens got only 1,439 votes but the much loathed Sue Bradford pulled 2,263. See how it works?

[rainman]

But I sure as shit would not give my vote to a party who's policies I did not predominantly agree with either. To vote for a party on one or two vote attracting policies is ignorant in the extreme.

But I do predominantly agree with their policies... just not all of them, which is what was being argued earlier. This one looks like a shitter.


You admit you vote Green, cool, may you live with the fall out of their influence as I who did not vote for them have to also.

The end.

Don't worry they have no actual power.... :(

And I'll shut up now.

[meteor]

Don't agree with it, further division will work how? The ambulance at the bottom of the cliff again. Why don't they ask the cause, why the violence, the stealing the drug & alcohol abuse? that's what the systemic failure is, but not by the system alone. And as for what the Hon TT says... "Maori don't get warned"... why should they when they commit serious or multiple offences. When will we all wake up and tell them if they're criminals it's their fault! and stop trying to blame everyone else because they can't sort their own cultural shit out?
The only parallel system I'd like to see is one where all proceeds of crime is confiscated, sold and distributed back to the victims instead of the govt. welfare fund that pays it straight back to the crims...

[MSTRS]

Ok, let's run this through from the top.

Say there are three parties,...etc...

Notice there is no party that scores 10/10.



That was all obvious stuff. Which all 'thinking' voters know. Including me.
Did you miss the 'tacit'?

[rainman]

Fortunately us Greenies voters can vote Green without supporting every molecule of the party line. :whocares:


a vote for any party is tacit approval of all their policies.


Did you miss the 'tacit'?

Ah, a semantic battle - "tacit" derives from "silent" (tacitus). But that's not where the action is in this logic. Did you miss the "approval"? :laugh:

Facts are I don't approve of this policy (viscerally, that is, I haven't really thought it through in depth but it sounds to be a stoopid policy so I am unlikely to bother), and I probably would still vote Green, and my head hasn't exploded.

Empiricism wins, I think. Anyhoo, I'm going to go cook some eggs, wash some dishes then go for a ride... See you all later.

[oldrider]

Jeez, no wonder MMP doesn't work in NZ.

MMP is "not" supposed to work! "anywhere"

That was the intention when they foisted it onto Germany after WW2.

MMP is about compromise, where nothing ever really gets done except weak watery "Green" type touchy feely shit!

It's just like a Stallion with it's nuts out, a neutered, placid, compliant beast of burden! :mellow:

And New Zealand (politicians) volunteerd for it! :spanking: Go figure! :Pokey: John.

[MSTRS]

MMP is "not" supposed to work! "anywhere"

That was the intention when they foisted it onto Germany after WW2.

MMP is about compromise, where nothing ever really gets done except weak watery "Green" type touchy feely shit!

It's just like a Stallion with it's nuts out, a neutered, placid, compliant beast of burden! :mellow:

And New Zealand (politicians) volunteerd for it! :spanking: Go figure! :Pokey: John.

Wasn't it Joe Public who 'wanted it'? For purposes of fairer governance.
The reality is when FPTP was being reconsidered via referendum, the pollies pushed for MMP (rather than STV) because it offered them a better chance of in-ability (if you see what I mean). The blinkered and trusting Joe Public bought the hype.
It may be fairer than what existed before, but it sure isn't better.

[oldrider]

Wasn't it Joe Public who 'wanted it'? For purposes of fairer governance.
The reality is when FPTP was being reconsidered via referendum, the pollies pushed for MMP (rather than STV) because it offered them a better chance of in-ability (if you see what I mean). The blinkered and trusting Joe Public bought the hype.
It may be fairer than what existed before, but it sure isn't better.

As I saw it at the time:

Majority Joe public wanted some form of "proportional representation" .(including me)

I believe the popular vote was for STV but the pollies pulled a fast one and gave us the choice of continuing with FPP or accepting MMP.(very democratic)

Most people would have prefered FPP to MMP but the pollies added another wee rider:

I.E. If the vote went back to FPP there would never be another opportunity to have "proportional representation" considered again!

So all of those (including me) that wanted "electoral reform" of some kind voted for MMP.(Hobson's choice)

The proposed reforandum that was promised (after a trial period of MMP) never eventuated once MMP was implimented.

The pollies knew they were onto a good thing with "Jobs for life" for doing F-all and after all "they" know whats best for "us" don't they!

Compromise does not entertain "accountability". :doh: We were completely sucked in! :brick: MMP is here to stay! :angry2: John.

[SARGE]

what a brilliant idea. I also suggesting a while, male, high income earner, married with kids parallel justice system.

Ill be the judge and finn can be the guy who hands out the punishments.

oooh... Ooooh ... Can i be the bailiff?

[Tank]

oooh... Ooooh ... Can i be the bailiff?

You're hired !

[SARGE]

you're hired !

bitchin.....let the ass kickings begin

Lias .. grab the heavy duty Taser bro...

[fire eyes]

“Young people who aren’t in touch with their culture and feel alienated from wider society need education and training that works for them. Trade-based training that leads directly to jobs is a win-win situation for those young people and for New Zealand.

“Restorative justice and community-based sentences are great ways to make troubled young people face up to their crimes, reconnect with their communities and stay out of jail.

“Breaking the cycle of criminality makes sense economically as well as socially. Targeted interventions can make the difference between quickly getting a troubled youngster back onto the straight and narrow, or into a life of crime.

================================================== ========

I would like to see the above initiative available and implemented for all young people in New Zealand. Targeting one specific group creates the devide even further .. as opinionated even just through this thread. I cannot understand why there is a continual need to segregate.

Cultural identity is very important but is still only part of the solution. Why is there significant emphasis still placed on Cultural Identity as the core solution. Why are people not educated about the connection between individualism, cultural orientation & unification of all peoples.

This has become so complex and un-manageable. Why are the basics of humanity not taught. These young people/adults committing crime have become desensitized .. self consumtion blurs empathy/responsibility/accountability & respect for humanity.

Get back to basics. Because we are headed that way anyway with one hell of a bang. Might pay to try and at least opt for a softer landing.

[Headbanger]

Regarding training, and our brown skin brothers.

My entire crew are Maori, They are a step above a lot of their mates because they want to work, to do well, work hard,to achieve.....to a point.

And that point is payday, then its booze and cigarettes and if they can walk the next morning then maybe go to work in a shit state.

I push these fuckers into training (provided by the company of course), I promise them better wages, job security,prospects, a better career.

Yeah right,They never do the training, they put in the hard slog, put in the hours, dangerous hard work, booze it up, get busted for their 10th dic and lose their licence indefinitely, and sometimes go to jail.

[fire eyes]

When the focus in life is to party up what else is expected. There is so much more ..

[FJRider]

Compromise does not entertain "accountability". :doh: We were completely sucked in! :brick: MMP is here to stay! :angry2: John.

A compromise is never perfection... in any way shape or form.

MMP is a goverment by committee.....

[Whynot]

They are not going to attract Maori votes and the policy is likely to alenaiate 'middle' New Zealand.
Skyryder

Hasn't 'middle' New Zealand already moved to Australia ... ?

[Okey Dokey]

MMP is "not" supposed to work! "anywhere"

That was the intention when they foisted it onto Germany after WW2.

John.

That is my understanding of MMP as well.

I, too, thought a more representative form of gvmt would be good, but MMP was not my first choice. Voted for it knowing there was to be a follow up referendum in case it sucked...guess what it does suck...guess what else, no referendum...bastards

Why didn't I see it coming?

[GIXser]

Helping to fix the racial divide in NZ the Green party are proposing a parallel justice system - just for Maori - aimed at (get this) reducing the unjust imprisonment of many Maori.

http://www.greens.org.nz/node/20880

"A parallel Maori justice system will be proposed by Green Party Law and Order/Maori Affairs Spokesperson Metiria Turei at tomorrow’s Crime Summit.

“Because Maori are more likely to be stopped and searched, arrested rather than cautioned, and receive higher sentences than Pakeha offenders, Maori crime and imprisonment rates are elevated,” Mrs Turei said today.

“The establishment of a Maori justice system that runs alongside the existing legal system – using the education system as a model – will help to eliminate the impact of this systemic racial profiling, reduce the unjust imprisonment of many Maori and stem Maori reoffending.”


What a brilliant idea. I also suggesting a While, Male, High income earner, married with kids parallel justice system.

Ill be the judge and Finn can be the guy who hands out the punishments.

can i be the executioner please..pretty please.... please...