Please - career advice

[justsomeguy]

Hey Guys,

It’s been a while, still off bikes for mostly financial reasons. Rode a friend’s VTR250 for 10 seconds as a birthday treat a few days ago - miss bikes like mad, miss the group rides, miss the Coro GP, miss Cheenic Dwive, miss talking shit on a Thu night ride...... ok ........

... I'll get to the point.

I studied business at Auckland 6 years ago, got my degree, majored in IT got a job, floated around, came to Sydney in 07 got into IT recruitment, lasted till now working for a pretty decent firm, hate the "sleazy salesman" kind of environment and got out.

I wanted to study law but didn't have the grades then. Now I can walk in to any course with my experience and degree (I checked).

I’m currently unemployed.

I turned 27 a few days back - I figure I have another 30 or so years of working time left.

So I can either do some IT course and get into IT sales (I don't have any tech skills) and the market in Sydney is so dead it isn't funny. I am not really an “IT Guy”.

Or.

I can come back home and study Law at Auckland Uni - it will take 3.5-4 years to finish.

By the then the recession will be over and I can properly plan my career and have a much more secure skill set that I use.

Why Law?

I like the money (not ashamed to say it), I've seen enough of the corporate world to realise there are no saints here - might as well get into the system. It is a stable career path.

Are there any lawyers here? Can you tell me bout the industry?

Plan would be come home study, try and get into a top tier firm locally or else Aussie/Europe/Whatever….

For those of you with the benefit of hindsight – if you could go back and start again – would you?

I realise I will be 30 or 31 by the time I finish - I was 21 when I first graduated Uni with my degree and 2 diplomas... so I'll be an old fart...;)

Thanks for reading this.

[Patch]

do the law degree in Aussie - it takes less time, bout 2.5yrs if I remember correctly.

or learn how to make money, then you won't need a job.

[justsomeguy]

Law degree in Aussie - means coming up with AU$400 / week to live. But I save a year -- haven't researched it.

Law degree in Auckland - I'll most likely get the student allowance which means having to work less, more time for life - study, ride, date, etc..

Hmm.... Is the question asking "How do I learn to make money?" - one of those where, if you have to ask, you probably don't get it? Cos I don't mate.

[Tank]

So I can either do some IT course and get into IT sales (I don't have any tech skills) and the market in Sydney is so dead it isn't funny. I am not really an “IT Guy”.


To make money in IT sales you need to be selling high end software systems. As such you need to more of a business guy than a IT guy.

Guys selling hardware dont make the big $$$$. Some of our sales guys earn huge amounts of $$$$$.

law is also good (we work in legal) - again you can make big money but you need to be doing the right type of law in the bigger firms. Its good as its a recession resistant type business. Long hours for years - but when you make partner - ca-ching!!! Partners at a firm we deal with (Clifford Chance) - each partner took home (on adv.) 810,000 pounds per year!!!

HOWEVER you need to make sure you dont end up doing realestate forms in a 2 man band - else you make nothing. Corporate law is where the money is.

[Mom]

At 27 you have your whole life ahead of you, 31 is young. You need to decide what you actually want to do and DO IT! Follow through and DO IT! Reading your post it seems to me you have decided on a path anyway. Follow it! Dont look back, or sideways, focus on where you want to be and get there. This applies to your career as much as to your personal life.

My experience for what it is worth...

Set some goals, find out what you have to do to achieve them, find out how you can achieve them, start working towards them, achieve them!

[FJRider]

At 27 you have your whole life ahead of you, 31 is young. You need to decide what you actually want to do and DO IT! Follow through and DO IT! Reading your post it seems to me you have decided on a path anyway. Follow it! Dont look back, or sideways, focus on where you want to be and get there. This applies to your career as much as to your personal life.

My experience for what it is worth...

Set some goals, find out what you have to do to achieve them, find out how you can achieve them, start working towards them, achieve them!

What she said...... There are some (of us) older...

31 isn't old... just go for it....

[boostin]

I am currently studying law at Auckland and am turning 26 this year. I know a few people around the law faculty who are between 25 and 30.

You will still need to get in the top 300 in first year to get into 'law proper'. If you want any tips for this let me know, I managed to make it through with a few 'good' papers.

Also if you get a law degree you don't have to end up in a legal job, many opportunities with a law degree. Even if you do there are many different areas of law, including my new favorite outer space law.

[blossomsowner]

Just you do whatever you want to do.........I think job satisfaction is more important than money....sure money is good but only if you enjoy the work as well. No point in being miserable at work.....


Retraining and/or changing careers is fine. I am in my fourth type of career move and doing great........and contemplating changing again at a ripe old age.


so go for it........just whatever you do make sure you do it great.

[James Deuce]

See, this is where the message between "Qualification" and "Fulfilling Career" gets so messed up.

Do the law degree back here, buy a DRZ-400SM for commuting and weekend fun (you know: something that won't highside you into oblivion) and then muck about looking at different jobs. The only reason I stick with IT is because I can make someone's day a little bit easier if I manage to sort their problem/build their server/create their mailgroup/finish the project after the project team have gone on holiday in Jakarta.

Don't let the law degree define what you do with the rest of your life. The lessons of the last 40 years have taught us that if you want money you need to be able to bullshit brilliantly and divorce yourself from personal liability for losing other people's money while generating income with it. The law degree will teach you how to read, how to write, how to redefine someone's interpretation of a particular set of facts, and how to dig up obscure examples of a law working a particular way.

You've had an experience of selling people. The law degree will give you methods for enslaving Bengalese people to UAE construction projects with no trail back to you. That sort of thing.

Slowly buy up all the Dairys in NZ. Become a small business overlord. Leverage off that to squeeze Progressive out of the market.

Long term evil plans. You're Indian. This stuff is in your genes man!

[Timber020]

most of my adult cousins are lawyers, they are a blight on society to. Opening a P lab would really earn as well.

[Burtha]

I spent approx 20 years in IT, hardly any quals, last job was building computer labs that meant wearing lots of different hats. After that, only jobs I was going to be hired for were webmaster for TVNZ (pleased I didn't get it), IT manager (boring) or to go into programming ie; EB games (Oz - but came back to NZ). I had a career change and became a housewife which love.

IT sales - yick. IT management average $ but boring. Only real money would be in programming.
Combining IT and law would set you up with a great skill set ie; fraud investigations and other stuff.
Get the law degree.
And 31 would probably work in your favour ie; mature outlook - not old at all!

[Patch]

Hmm.... Is the question asking "How do I learn to make money?" - one of those where, if you have to ask, you probably don't get it? Cos I don't mate.
Property, Business or Equity Markets - only 3 areas to make serious coin.
Research, learn, apply and you can retire within 7 years. Only 7% of peeps do tho. It requires hard work and discipline.



or Just Obey Boss


Plenty of info out there, just need to apply ya self in whatever option you choose.

[DJSin]

Where people make money is when they are passionate about something. It gives them the extra drive to work longer hours, produce a quality product or service and love doing it the whole time.

From a more practical perspective I've been looking at moving from Wellington to Tauranga and now I wish I'd done an accounting or law degree it seems that those jobs are required where ever you go.

[Firefight]

look me up when u get back in aks Ujwal,



F/F

[jaymzw]

learn how to make money, then you won't need a job.

Isn't that illegal? :eek:

[R6_kid]

Lawyers with life experience are better lawyers than 23yo freshies straight out of uni. If law is what you want to do then do the study and get your required qualifications.

All you need to do is be true to yourself, if you come back and find law isn't for you, so what? Look for the next option and go for it.

The worst thing you can do is nothing, then you'd be just as bad as skidmark.

[justsomeguy]

Thanks guys.

After more self exploration and talking to people - what I've learnt is that I don't want to be a "lawyer" - I just want a high paying job - and law perfectly suits someone like me.

Later on I want to set up my company - and am looking to build some foundational skills in the following areas:

1. Salesmanship - got natural skills
2. Understand People - figuring this out through self study (not a book - but studying the world around me - I go out pretty much 4-5 nights a week and a few days too)
3. Gain a technical skill - This is where the law degree comes in. I am not passionate about IT - but like the legal profession, the lifestyle, the life...so law looks good.

[justsomeguy]

look me up when u get back in aks Ujwal,



F/F

Will do Dave.

Look forward to meeting you regardless.

Uj

[justsomeguy]

See, this is where the message between "Qualification" and "Fulfilling Career" gets so messed up.

Yaa -- want a high paying job - I've always seen work as work...

Not interested so much in that as I am in "play".

I need a high income - I have an incurable affinity to the finer things in life.

[justsomeguy]

Lawyers with life experience are better lawyers than 23yo freshies straight out of uni. If law is what you want to do then do the study and get your required qualifications.

All you need to do is be true to yourself, if you come back and find law isn't for you, so what? Look for the next option and go for it.

The worst thing you can do is nothing, then you'd be just as bad as skidmark.

Thanks G.

How you been? Long time......

A new friend of mine - met him at a sales conference recently - is a lawyer who explained the lifestyle -

The top firms want the younger kids because they LACK life experience - so their personalities can be moulded into what the lawfirm considers best - they also don't have anything else going on in life and are happy to work 100 hours a week.

I still haven't gotten into law school -need to send them my old transcripts.

[vtec]

I've also got tertiary qualifications. But I can't sit still all day in an office. I'm on an OE at the moment, having some fun. When I get back I'm thinking of doing some hard labour like learning reinforcing steel placing as a trade. Seems simple enough, and with my Quantity Surveying/Estimating and contacts in the industry would give me scope to possibly start a subcontracting company.

Could you really tolerate years of studying something as bureaucratic and soul destroying as law? Don't torture yourself.

[Taz]

Get a factory shift work job..... Pay is great.

[SPman]

The top firms want the younger kids because they LACK life experience - so their personalities can be moulded into what the lawfirm considers best - they also don't have anything else going on in life and are happy to work 100 hours a week.

U - Law isn't a direct path into big money - you have to be able to put up with shit like the above for years to get anywhere in the big firms. Know several people with law degrees and it's been a hard struggle for them to claw their way into reasonable positions in a shitty profession! You're still young mate, do the law degree if you want, but the main thing is to get a good grounding in life skills at the same time. Do things with an end goal in mind, but don't restrict yourself - you never really know how your life may twist and turn.....
Vtec - learning reo placing takes about a day and it's a shitty job (I've done it) One of the (few) good things about being a QS is that you don't need a total scrub down at the end of every day........

[justsomeguy]

U - Law isn't a direct path into big money - you have to be able to put up with shit like the above for years to get anywhere in the big firms. Know several people with law degrees and it's been a hard struggle for them to claw their way into reasonable positions in a shitty profession! You're still young mate, do the law degree if you want, but the main thing is to get a good grounding in life skills at the same time. Do things with an end goal in mind, but don't restrict yourself - you never really know how your life may twist and turn.....
Vtec - learning reo placing takes about a day and it's a shitty job (I've done it) One of the (few) good things about being a QS is that you don't need a total scrub down at the end of every day........

Thanks J,

Truth of the matter is I don't know what I want - based on what I know - law seems appropriate...

Yeah, it's not a direct route - but is one of the few fields where 6 figure salaries are available in 3 years.

Then there are the chances to study and work abroad...

Vtec - almost all jobs are bureaucratic - might as well get into one that lets us have a full tank of gas ....

[Edbear]

At 27 you have your whole life ahead of you, 31 is young. You need to decide what you actually want to do and DO IT! Follow through and DO IT! Reading your post it seems to me you have decided on a path anyway. Follow it! Dont look back, or sideways, focus on where you want to be and get there. This applies to your career as much as to your personal life.

My experience for what it is worth...

Set some goals, find out what you have to do to achieve them, find out how you can achieve them, start working towards them, achieve them!


Mom's got good advice...I'd listen to her...:yes:



Just you do whatever you want to do.........I think job satisfaction is more important than money....sure money is good but only if you enjoy the work as well. No point in being miserable at work.....


Retraining and/or changing careers is fine. I am in my fourth type of career move and doing great........and contemplating changing again at a ripe old age.


so go for it........just whatever you do make sure you do it great.

Also good advice! I've found a job I really enjoy, though the pay's not great. I look upon it as semi-retirement at my age. Busy, lots to learn, but a great atmosphere and I get to ride my bike everyday, gasbag on the phone to people all over NZ, (and even Aus.), and get told by customers that I'm "Darling!" - Okay she was an older lady, but I sorted out a little issue for her and saved her lots of money...

Do a job you really enjoy and if the challenge appeals and you think you'd be good at it, do it!

[Fatjim]

Where people make money is when they are passionate about something. It gives them the extra drive to work longer hours, produce a quality product or service and love doing it the whole time.


Unless of course your in IT. There, the laziest good for nothing shit for brains make the most money.

[McJim]

If you have no children then go and study. I took a year out from education to decide what I really wanted to study. That was in 1988 and I haven't been back to Uni yet.

[justsomeguy]

Unless of course your in IT. There, the laziest good for nothing shit for brains make the most money.

Tell me bout it - IT recruitment for two years - couldn't believe the kind of people commanding AU$1000+ a day for their tech skills.

[justsomeguy]

If you have no children then go and study. I took a year out from education to decide what I really wanted to study. That was in 1988 and I haven't been back to Uni yet.

No kids, no serious girl friend and no plans to have either for a long, long, long time.

It's too much fun being single.:innocent:

[jrandom]

What never fails to amaze me is how many people throw their lives away in soul-destroying jobs that they hate (the profession of law comes to mind), just so that they can have a certain amount of money to spend in the remaining minority of their time.

Newsflash, people: What you're doing every day is your life. Why not do something that you actually enjoy?

[Ocean1]

Newsflash, people: What you're doing every day is your life. Why not do something that you actually enjoy?

I'm trying dude, honest.

I've had five applications for positions at the local DHB breast screening service declined over the last few years.

[James Deuce]

Newsflash, people: What you're doing every day is your life. Why not do something that you actually enjoy?

There's no money in watching porn.

[jrandom]

There's no money in watching porn.

Oh, I dunno; I suspect there are quite a few plum salaried spots at the Office of Film & Literature Classification (http://www.censorship.govt.nz/).

[James Deuce]

Oh, I dunno; I suspect there are quite a few plum salaried spots at the Office of Film & Literature Classification (http://www.censorship.govt.nz/).

I've a mate who worked there for years. Did his head in. I taught him drums because, to quote, "they drowned out the vile desecrations that humans are capable of."

They don't generally watch "socially acceptable" porn for classification, plus the boss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hastings) is a Nazi despite his pleasant public persona.

[justsomeguy]

Why not do something that you actually enjoy?

If I knew the answer to that I wouldn't be :bash: myself would I......:angry2:....

I'd be - :D




How'd you pick what you want to do?

Or were you one of lucky people who "just knew"?

[James Deuce]

If I knew the answer to that I wouldn't be :bash: myself would I......:angry2:....

I'd be - :D




How'd you pick what you want to do?

Or were you one of lucky people who "just knew"?

I was really dumb at school.

We had targetted career testing back then and after looking at the subjects I'd been studying and doing a couple of multi-guess psychometric tests, the answer came out: Windows Dresser or Flower Arranger. The careers counsellor was awesome, but I just didn't listen to him because I felt about as over-wrought in a teenager type fashion as it was possible to be - the counsellor suggested design school, but I think I flounced and huffed a lot and wouldn't talk to him from that point.

On reflection and after working at Comm Arts as the IT Manager and ending up helping with design for a number of different minor projects I shoul dhave gone to design school. I also should have gone with my hastily constructed backup plan of a double major in History and Psychology and a Masters in Strategic Studies.

Oh well.