Chain and sprockets change HELP!

[offrd]

Ok, well over due time for chain and sprockerts on the dakar. Parts are in the shed and bike is pretty much in bits but, i did not realise that i needed a 30mm socket and power bar to get the front sprocket off!:doh:

Having moved to Auckland recently and not knowing anyone really up here that i can go and borrow bits from unlike back in Tokoroa...

I really need someone with a few tools a a bit of time to give me a hand.....

Anyone???

Oh and a dab of locktite would be pretty helpfull too!


Thanks


Oh and i am on the shore, Glenfield

021 0 545 225


Duncan

[offrd]

Ah well, all sorted...

:scooter:

[bart]

I've had the same problem. Took mine in for a warrent. Soon after, I wanted to change the front sprocket. Not a shit show of getting it off. Took it back to the shop. They looked a bit embarased when I saw them swinging off a 3 foot long piece of pipe with a socket attached. :mad:

[CrazyFrog]

I've had the same problem. Took mine in for a warrent. Soon after, I wanted to change the front sprocket. Not a shit show of getting it off. Took it back to the shop. They looked a bit embarased when I saw them swinging off a 3 foot long piece of pipe with a socket attached. :mad:

I've had several bikes that needs more than a rattle gun to dislodge the countershaft sprocket bolt. The ol' long pipe and a socket trick nevers fails to work 'em loose. Extra leverage is what does the job.
Try undoing some of them clutch holding nuts and then the fun really starts.

[Box'a'bits]

What would you rather have? Sprocket falling off on the road? Believe me that has happened......:Oops:
Once you have put a dab of loctite on the threads, then torque it up (& its had time to set) it can take some shifting

[warewolf]

Aren't you supposed to use heat on loctite to break it loose anyway?

[SARGE]

for future reference .. i stock everything ya need ( SHAMELESS PLUG)

[Oscar]

Ok, well over due time for chain and sprockerts on the dakar. Parts are in the shed and bike is pretty much in bits but, i did not realise that i needed a 30mm socket and power bar to get the front sprocket off!:doh:

Having moved to Auckland recently and not knowing anyone really up here that i can go and borrow bits from unlike back in Tokoroa...

I really need someone with a few tools a a bit of time to give me a hand.....

Anyone???

Oh and a dab of locktite would be pretty helpfull too!


Thanks


Oh and i am on the shore, Glenfield

021 0 545 225


Duncan

Tip on changing countershaft sprockets - put your bike in a high gear with the chain still on...

[bart]

Tip on changing countershaft sprockets - put your bike in a high gear with the chain still on...

and have a mate STAND on the back brake while you swing off a fooking long piece of pipe with all your weight :baby:

[offrd]

Well the pipe and socket idea might be a good one, but when you just have a repco cresent and the tools the bike came with... That aint ever going to happen!

But using what i had i still got it off not a problem, just had to think of the solution.....


One person too....
:first:

[Tony W]

- put your bike in a high gear .

Surely low gear (1st) offers maximum resistance ?

[Oscar]

Surely low gear (1st) offers maximum resistance ?

Nope, think about it in terms of engine RPM's.

[xwhatsit]

What's the reason why bike manufacturers have moved to this method of retaining the sprocket? Simplicity? Price? More reliable?

Two 10mm bolts holding an interference plate in place in front of the sprocket seem to do just fine and are a piece of piss to get on and off. Is this design confined to previous generations now?

[Tony W]

Nope, think about it in terms of engine RPM's.

Please explain your way into my trap...!

[Tony W]

What's the reason why bike manufacturers have moved to this method of retaining the sprocket? Simplicity? Price? More reliable?

Two 10mm bolts holding an interference plate in place in front of the sprocket seem to do just fine and are a piece of piss to get on and off. Is this design confined to previous generations now?


That IS a very good question. Those big nuts are a pain.

(cue clever comment from Nordie) ;)

[Oscar]

Please explain your way into my trap...!

If yer bikes in first gear, and yer trying to undo the countershaft sprocket bolt, how many times do you have to turn the wrench for one engine revolution? How many in top?

[Tony W]

If yer bikes in first gear, and yer trying to undo the countershaft sprocket bolt, how many times do you have to turn the wrench for one engine revolution? How many in top?

:no:
If you put your bike in fifth and crash start it, you will easily turn over the engine.

Put your bike in first and crash it. The wheel and engine will lock up.

The same principle applies to the socket on the countershaft nut.

Can you smell that pie a-cookin' ! . . . or are you gonna dig yourself in deeper ? :msn-wink:

[Tony W]

If yer bikes in first gear, and yer trying to undo the countershaft sprocket bolt, how many times do you have to turn the wrench for one engine revolution? How many in top?

. .to answer your specific question.

Lets say for simplicity's sake 5th gear ratio is 1:1
one turn of the engine turns the countershaft one time..

Say first gear is 5:1.
five turns of the engine turn the countershaft one time.

This means it will be easy to turn the engine over in 5th gear as the leverage is one shaft turn = 1 engine turn.

In 1st gear one shaft turn = 5 engine turns. ie it is 5 times harder to turn the engine over in 1st gear.

[NordieBoy]

That IS a very good question. Those big nuts are a pain.

(cue clever comment from Nordie) ;)

The Nordie uses a big bolt with a weird sprocket.
I lost the bolt once. The chain took out a chunk of casing that had been designed to be taken out in that situation. That's Itialian thinking for ya.

That clever enough?

[NordieBoy]

Two 10mm bolts holding an interference plate in place in front of the sprocket seem to do just fine and are a piece of piss to get on and off. Is this design confined to previous generations now?

The DR uses 3 bolts! Ha! We win!

[Tony W]

That clever enough?


Pretty tame for you. . . I was actually going to say "big nuts are a pain in the arse" but wasn't looking forward to your 'rebuttal' !

[Oscar]

. .to answer your specific question.

Lets say for simplicity's sake 5th gear ratio is 1:1
one turn of the engine turns the countershaft one time..

Say first gear is 5:1.
five turns of the engine turn the countershaft one time.

This means it will be easy to turn the engine over in 5th gear as the leverage is one shaft turn = 1 engine turn.

In 1st gear one shaft turn = 5 engine turns. ie it is 5 times harder to turn the engine over in 1st gear.

Er.. we're going backwards, turning the sprocket against the engine.

[Woodman]

Er.. we're going backwards, turning the sprocket against the engine.

Which is the same as crash starting it, also depends which side the sprockets on.
I need to think about this though

[cooneyr]

:no:
If you put your bike in fifth and crash start it, you will easily turn over the engine.

Put your bike in first and crash it. The wheel and engine will lock up.

The same principle applies to the socket on the countershaft nut....

+1 on this. This is the easiest explanation, but I agree that it is all to do with leverage. Long leaver (high ratio) will compress the air in the cylinder easier than a short leaver (low ratio).

If you leave the chain on and use the rear brake the gear the bike is in is irrelevant anyway. The XTZ uses the same system - big nut but with the right sized socket and a old torque wrench used as a leaver its a piece of cake to get off.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Pretty tame for you. . . I was actually going to say "big nuts are a pain in the arse" but wasn't looking forward to your 'rebuttal' !

Well 3 small ones arn't a pain in the arse...
Ummm...

Welll...

Chopping the nuts off and using a circlip around your shaft however...

[Tony W]

Er.. we're going backwards, turning the sprocket against the engine.

That is exactly my point. A 5:1 ratio becomes a 1:5.

I'm all out of explanations. Physically try it and get back to me. . .

[Woodman]

oscar, Oscar. OOOOsscar where'd he go??

[NordieBoy]

oscar, Oscar. OOOOsscar where'd he go??

He's in the shed trying it out :D

[Tony W]

Chopping the nuts off and using a circlip around your shaft however...

See !!!. . I knew you could do it..:clap:

[Oscar]

Which is the same as crash starting it, also depends which side the sprockets on.
I need to think about this though

Worked with my IT200 in 1986...

[warewolf]

Definitely need to use a low gear for maximum resistance at the sprocket. Consider this practical view: any time you need to turn the engine over during servicing (eg find TDC) it is suggested you use a high gear because it is a lot easier to turn the engine via turning the back wheel.

I think the confusion is arising because under drive, we want to multiply the torque going from the engine to the sprocket to make it easier to turn the sprocket, so use 5:1 ratio (from previous example) engine:sprocket. When driving the sprocket, the ratio is inverted, but so is our desired effect: we want to reduce the torque going from the sprocket back to the engine to make it harder to turn the engine, so use 1:5 ratio, sprocket:engine.

The gearbox is just a torque multiplier, it doesn't care which end is drive/driven, and in each of the above examples, the gearbox ratio is the same one: 1st.


If you leave the chain on and use the rear brake the gear the bike is in is irrelevant anyway. The XTZ uses the same system - big nut but with the right sized socket and a old torque wrench used as a leaver its a piece of cake to get off.That's the trick with the Trophy. 36mm socket on a 400mm torque wrench, stand in the riding position so you can push down on the brake while pulling up on the socket. Hopefully the bugger comes loose before you pop a vein in your forehead...

[cooneyr]

...That's the trick with the Trophy. 36mm socket on a 400mm torque wrench, stand in the riding position so you can push down on the brake while pulling up on the socket. Hopefully the bugger comes loose before you pop a vein in your forehead...

I have friends (actually a tolerant wife) so dont have this issue ;)

Cheers R

[Box'a'bits]

I have friends (actually a tolerant wife) so dont have this issue ;)

Cheers R

Ah, but do you have a tolerant wife that will do things WHEN you want....

[Woodman]

Worked with my IT200 in 1986...

It don't matter what side the sprocket is on, but were the it 200 sprockets on the right like the 175. ah nostalgia.

[cooneyr]

Ah, but do you have a tolerant wife that will do things WHEN you want....

If I'm lucky :msn-wink::whistle:

Cheers R