Best Bonnie ever?

[Big Dave]

Poll and Jenk's SE test


http://kiwirider.co.nz/jenkse/jenkse.html

(http://kiwirider.co.nz/jenkse/jenkse.html)
Comments for inclusion and theories as to which one is best can be posted here :-)

[Bonez]

The US speced ones were stunners

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/tri03081900.html

The TSS T140W probably deserves a mention too. After all it had a 4 valve head like the new Bonnies.

[Paul in NZ]

What a daft question Dave.... Best? Best in what way?? Fastest around a track? Most expensive or sought after, most reliable?

Modern technology and design learnt from the mistakes of the past and produced on todays computer controlled engineering equipment makes a new bike 'better' in many ways. Even a cheap 250 now is 'better' in many ways. The british industry failed because it lacked the ability (not the right word, they had the ability, just not the cash to invest) to leap into more modern designs that people wanted. So yes, a modern Bonne is better in many ways as a commercially profitable motorcycle - but is it better at being a bonneville, erm nope.... Even Triumph call it a retro bike so its really just a shadow of something that was great.

The true test is, would it sell if it was made by Honda? Yes, but it would sell in W650 numbers (ie not many)....

So what IS the best bonnie? Again, hard to say because production covered such a time of social change. 1959 was a very diferent time than 1969 or 1979, far more so than from 1997 to 2007.

Pre unit bonnies make it onto the 'best' list because they were wild and wicked and arrived at the time when they were needed. Motorways arrived and austerity was ending, people bought motorcycles as toys and they no longer had to go to work in the pit evey day and take the family on holiday to Blackpool with a huge sidecar, a Mini did that cheaper and better. Motorcycles started to be less general and more specialised sports bikes, tourer, scrambler etc

By 1967 the handling was sorted and 68 to 70 they stopped OK too. A 68 to 70 are the years in the period when the bonnie still mattered.

73 saw the T140V which was a better bike in many ways but it from around 72 you could get the last 650's as a 5 speeder as well, the T120V is a brilliant bike to ride!

The T140V is a better bike (more developed) and justly loved by the alternate biker underground who wouldnt buy japanese but it's not a bad ass fastest thing on two wheels anymore, it's becoming like its owners, safe and secure and moving to the suburbs.... It does not make it onto my list....

The new ones, nope... Sorry, loved by chicks with fringes and born agains having a mid life crisis. Acceptable to your wife (who lets you buy it cos it's nice) and about as bad as a nice cup of tea at your mother in laws, you are not going to scare anyone at the local dance on one of these. Its clumsy looking engine looks almost embarassed to be carry the name.

My list....

1960 to 62 (forget the 59's, they were first but had fat guards and the horrible nacelle thing). With difficult handling these bikes were super exciting to ride.

69 / 70 - well I have to.... They are the best combo of looks and go.

1973 T120V Wonderfully effective bike, under rated and RARE.

um......

Thats it....

[Big Dave]

What a daft question Dave....


Oh - Daft because it won't elicit an answer you mean? :-)

[YellowDog]

IMO - The early models were just meant to be retro with minor modern niceties. They were still old bikes.

The 2009SE is an excellent modern bike and competes well in the present market.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh - Daft because it won't elicit an answer you mean? :-)

I liked my attempt at an answer...

However - because the answer is subjective and n be argued in many ways hence daft because its not a question that can be answered...

[AllanB]

Looking for the perfect Bonnie I did a Google image search to ensure I got the one with the best lines and classic styling.

I am pretty sure I found a satisfactory ride that most on KB would agree is very special and it appears to be in a most excellent condition - possibly only used on Sunday mornings.......

Many, many hours could be spent gently buffing the body work, adjusting the headlights and rear sub-frame to ensure it purrs along and howls when given a good old fashioned trashing.

Being a Bonnie it may require a drip tray after a ride ........:rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

I liked my attempt at an answer...

However - because the answer is subjective and n be argued in many ways hence daft because its not a question that can be answered...

Job :done:

[Big Dave]

Looking for the perfect Bonnie I did a Google image search to ensure I got the one with the best lines and classic styling.

I am pretty sure I found a satisfactory ride that most on KB would agree is very special and it appears to be in a most excellent condition - possibly only used on Sunday mornings.......

Many, many hours could be spent gently buffing the body work, adjusting the headlights and rear sub-frame to ensure it purrs along and howls when given a good old fashioned trashing.

Being a Bonnie it may require a drip tray after a ride ........:rolleyes:

I can't quote that without the image. :-(

[Owl]

The 09 Bonneville SE (black) is what my missus desires when she completes her class 6 licence. Who am I to say no!:D

[Motu]

Each Bonnie had pushed the design to it's limits - the modern ones don't do that.The 60/62 was a fire breathing monster,this was as much as you could stretch a pre unit to - too much bike for the frame,forks and brakes.The 69/70 was as far as the unit design could be pushed - frame,forks and brakes again....it was getting scary to ride it fast.The design limit of the oif bikes was getting enough performance out of them - by the end of their era (more 10 years before the end) they were so restricted and overweight any 250 would blow right past them.

When the modern Bonnie is so developed things keep breaking,and riders are too scared to get on - it'll be the best Bonnie ever....

But all they develop are new paint jobs.

[Paul in NZ]

But all they develop are new paint jobs.

Hey! Thats not fair, don't forget the accessories and the clothing range....

[Big Dave]

And the fuel injection and different wheel sizes and geometry.

What do you want them to do - fix it till it breaks?

Clothing and accessories are mint btw - and the web site works very nicely.

[tri boy]

When the modern Bonnie is so developed things keep breaking,and riders are too scared to get on - it'll be the best Bonnie ever....


I'm very happy with the modern Bonnie engine/bike, that has an engine that is strong as an anvil, and needs tuners to double it's horse power before the first minor flaws show up. (usually clutch springs, n plates).
Best Bonnie they may not be, but I wouldn't swap it for anything. Truly.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Being a Bonnie it may require a drip tray after a ride ........:rolleyes:

I require a drip tray now......

[Bonez]

I require a drip tray now......Surely not.............................it's modern. Modern bikes aren't ment to leak.

[Big Dave]

Surely not.............................it's modern. Modern bikes aren't ment to leak.

Who said anything about his bike?

[Bonez]

Who said anything about his bike?Some have had wee oil leak issues Dave.
http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/86660-another-frustrating-oil-leak.html
Most should have been sorted under warrenty.

[Big Dave]

It's a joke joyce.

[Ixion]

68-69.

Still lean, still a bit mean, not yet strangulated, still lithe. Still leaked oil, bits still fell off. Had brakes now.

[Redmoggy]

68 T120. The bike that started it all for me. Painted this one for my old boss not that long ago. And for the record,build em right and they dont leak oil!
Rod

[SPman]

...the T120V is a brilliant bike to ride!

Mstriumphs T120V was fun, but I wouldn't have called it brilliant to ride.

She'd like a nice new one, that actually starts when the temp is over 30C, doesn't need continual fettling and doesn't try and take off at 100mph +!

[pritch]

When I decide (or circumstances decide for me) that I'm too old and doddery for the VFR then a Bonnie seems the likely replacement. The new one with the 17 inch wheels might be the go, if somebody actually makes modern rubber for it, and the smaller wheels don't reduce ground clearance too much...

[Bonez]

When I decide (or circumstances decide for me) that I'm too old and doddery for the VFR then a Bonnie seems the likely replacement. The new one with the 17 inch wheels might be the go, if somebody actually makes modern rubber for it, and the smaller wheels don't reduce ground clearance too much...I like them. A fairly basic motorcycle when you get down to it. The change to 7/8 bars will give a greater selection of bars to choose from too. Like I can go down to my local two guys m/c shop and get them off the rack.

[HenryDorsetCase]

When I decide (or circumstances decide for me) that I'm too old and doddery for the VFR then a Bonnie seems the likely replacement. The new one with the 17 inch wheels might be the go, if somebody actually makes modern rubber for it, and the smaller wheels don't reduce ground clearance too much...

I am really keen to ride one as well but if I can get both my feet on the ground (not flat) then you know it is LOW. I am interested in cornering clearance also, though it isnt a "lean over till you scrape your elbow" style of bike.

the smaller wheels do make the motor look HUUUGE though.

[AllanB]

When I decide (or circumstances decide for me) that I'm too old and doddery for the VFR then a Bonnie seems the likely replacement. The new one with the 17 inch wheels might be the go, if somebody actually makes modern rubber for it, and the smaller wheels don't reduce ground clearance too much...


Weird I was thinking the same. I've been bitching for modern sized wheels for the Bonnie for a while but alas I personally don't like the style they have chosen. OK I know they are a excellent copy of the cast 'Lester' wheels the 80's Bonnies came out with but I'd prefer a smooth, rounder look on the spokes. I'd either polish the heck out of the entire wheel or paint it all black.

They really should call me before releasing new models....... :shutup:

I really really want to strip one down to basics - kind of hot rod.

[KiwiRat]

I run Bridgestone BT 45s on my Bonnie. there's nothing wrong with them, or the dual compound Michelins as well.

All the naysayers haven't ridden a properly set up modern Bonnie. Tons of fun, with an old world feel.

This was my last Bonnie, and I would have my new one over the old any day. I've clocked up 83,000 km, most of them hard charging k's, all without the worry of whether I would reach my destination or not.

[Scouse]

I run Bridgestone BT 45s on my Bonnie. there's nothing wrong with them, or the dual compound Michelins as well.

All the naysayers haven't ridden a properly set up modern Bonnie. Tons of fun, with an old world feel.

This was my last Bonnie, and I would have my new one over the old any day. I've clocked up 83,000 km, most of them hard charging k's, all without the worry of whether I would reach my destination or not.The old one looks like a very adulterated silver jubilee.

[KiwiRat]

The old one looks like a very adulterated silver jubilee.

'81 Electric Start. Never touted as a Silver Jubilee when I bought it at Universal Motorcycles back in '86. Had cast aluminium sidecovers though, which i always remember as being unusual.

The pipes were my attempt at a performance exhaust.

[Paul in NZ]

For what its worth..... (sigh)..... not that anyone cares i guess..

Re bonnies.... First 'full' day of production was actually 5th of sept (my birthday, why I remember) 1958 (I was 2)..... This was for the 1959 sales year...

Several pre production bikes have possibly survived BUT always remember a bonnie was basically a T110 with a delta head. In theory, you could have purchased a bonnie earlier but it would have been a t110 with a delta head...

So technically, the bonnie is 51 this year on sept the 5th...

NOW..... Your starter for 10....

What OTHER famous motorcycle make also celebrates a 50th anniversary this year (2009) and what was it??????

[xwhatsit]

What OTHER famous motorcycle make also celebrates a 50th anniversary this year (2009) and what was it??????
Honda Super Cub!!

Actually no, they were 1958 as well.

Still in production though, almost unchanged. OHV to OHC... new headlight... that's about it.

[Motu]

So what year did they go OHC? At one stage they were practically given away (in my case,it was given to me) but now they fetch crazy prices.I sold mine for $200,which I now realize was too cheap.....but $200 profit after 10 years use isn't too bad.

[Paul in NZ]

The date in question... 3rd june, 1959....

ANYONE or ALL of you jap superbike riders ought to worship this date!!!!

[xwhatsit]

The date in question... 3rd june, 1959....

ANYONE or ALL of you jap superbike riders ought to worship this date!!!!
First Honda four? I thought they were still using twins in the IoM around that time though...

So what year did they go OHC? At one stage they were practically given away (in my case,it was given to me) but now they fetch crazy prices.I sold mine for $200,which I now realize was too cheap.....but $200 profit after 10 years use isn't too bad.
According to the literature I've got, the first OHC was the C65 in 1964... in 1967 they rationalised most of the range (C90 engine had wider cases, wasn't until the 12V square-headlight C90 that they did a 90 in the original cases) with an OHC for everything.

Yeah they go for silly prices now. How can you predict what to hang onto though :laugh:

[98tls]

First Honda four? I thought they were still using twins in the IoM around that time though...

According to the literature I've got, the first OHC was the C65 in 1964... in 1967 they rationalised most of the range (C90 engine had wider cases, wasn't until the 12V square-headlight C90 that they did a 90 in the original cases) with an OHC for everything.

Yeah they go for silly prices now. How can you predict what to hang onto though :laugh: Not sure on the first but the 750 came out in 69.

[xwhatsit]

Not sure on the first but the 750 came out in 69.
Talking about racebikes... all the same engineers who built the Honda GP bikes built the 750 and the CBX and the 400F and all those cool things.

MV or Benelli for that date? First transverse four? Time to get out some books heh.

EDIT: I was close enough, June 1959... first Honda excursion to the IoM TT... motorcycle parts in suitcases... beginning of the end!

[Big Dave]

One of the original Sandcasts.

[98tls]

The date in question... 3rd june, 1959....

ANYONE or ALL of you jap superbike riders ought to worship this date!!!! Are we talking the 59 125 Honda at the Isle?

[Paul in NZ]

Are we talking the 59 125 Honda at the Isle?

Yes - give this man a virtual beer...

Honda was the 1st Japanese motorcycle maker to enter a GP. The won the manufacturers team prize in this one event they contested in 59.

They contested every round in 1960

In 1961 they won their first GP, their first TT and their first world championship. By 2005 they had won 600 GP's!!!!!

Joey Dunlop, Cros, gawd, the whole modern era started 50 years ago...

[Beeza]

The 1969 Bonnie T120 is the best ever.

[Brian d marge]

What a daft question Dave.... Best? Best in what way?? Fastest around a track? Most expensive or sought after, most reliable?

Modern technology and design learnt from the mistakes of the past and produced on todays computer controlled engineering equipment makes a new bike 'better' in many ways. Even a cheap 250 now is 'better' in many ways. The British industry failed because it lacked the ability AJILITY (not the right word, they had the ability, just not the cash to invest) to leap into more modern designs that people wanted. So yes, a modern Bonne is better in many ways as a commercially profitable motorcycle - but is it better at being a bonneville, erm nope.... Even Triumph call it a retro bike so its really just a shadow of something that was great.

now here is were we go off course ......

The true test is, would it sell if it was made by Honda? Yes, but it would sell in W650 numbers (ie not many)....

nice call but i don't want to buy a Honda I am British and want a British bike , So is the thing any good or an over priced piece of sh#$%&'&

So what IS the best bonnie? Again, hard to say because production covered such a time of social change. 1959 was a very diferent time than 1969 or 1979, far more so than from 1997 to 2007.

Very true

Pre unit bonnies make it onto the 'best' list because they were wild and wicked and arrived at the time when they were needed. Motorways arrived and austerity was ending, people bought motorcycles as toys and they no longer had to go to work in the pit evey day and take the family on holiday to Blackpool with a huge sidecar, a Mini did that cheaper and better. Motorcycles started to be less general and more specialised sports bikes, tourer, scrambler etc

true

By 1967 the handling was sorted and 68 to 70 they stopped OK too. A 68 to 70 are the years in the period when the bonnie still mattered.
yup ,,they did handle to , not as sure fotted as a duke ,they flexed a bit BUT they turned in quickly , and were good round the English lanes , the SDukes were slow and a BYatch to turn in , BUT on long sweepers were Planted ,,,,


73 saw the T140V which was a better bike in many ways but it from around 72 you could get the last 650's as a 5 speeder as well, the T120V is a brilliant bike to ride!

The T140V is a better bike (more developed) and justly loved by the alternate biker underground who wouldnt buy japanese but it's not a bad ass fastest thing on two wheels anymore, it's becoming like its owners, safe and secure and moving to the suburbs.... It does not make it onto my list....
Yup and if it didntt snap rear spokes and piss around with its charging , it would have been perfect ( vibration IS manditory , the japanese have Never discovered that ,,,, My old bosses advice to me was ,,,buy an old Brit single and you will always get your leg ovver ! ( he was right )

The new ones, nope... Sorry, loved by chicks with fringes and born agains having a mid life crisis. Acceptable to your wife (who lets you buy it cos it's nice) and about as bad as a nice cup of tea at your mother in laws, you are not going to scare anyone at the local dance on one of these. Its clumsy looking engine looks almost embarassed to be carry the name.

to true ..............

My list....

1960 to 62 (forget the 59's, they were first but had fat guards and the horrible nacelle thing). With difficult handling these bikes were super exciting to ride.

69 / 70 - well I have to.... They are the best combo of looks and go.

1973 T120V Wonderfully effective bike, under rated and RARE.

um......

Thats it....

[Brian d marge]

Looking for the perfect Bonnie I did a Google image search to ensure I got the one with the best lines and classic styling.

I am pretty sure I found a satisfactory ride that most on KB would agree is very special and it appears to be in a most excellent condition - possibly only used on Sunday mornings.......

Many, many hours could be spent gently buffing the body work, adjusting the headlights and rear sub-frame to ensure it purrs along and howls when given a good old fashioned trashing.

Being a Bonnie it may require a drip tray after a ride ........:rolleyes:


Photo shop ... sorry

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

]Each Bonnie had pushed the design to it's limits ( the Norton did that better ,, the piston speeds were into lalala land ) - the modern ones don't do that.The 60/62 was a fire breathing monster,this was as much as you could stretch a pre unit to - too much bike for the frame,forks and brakes ( true but the motor was/is capable of much more )

.The 69/70 was as far as the unit design could be pushed - frame,forks and brakes again....it was getting scary to ride it fast. , The design limit of the oif bikes was getting enough performance out of them - by the end of their era (more 10 years before the end) they were so restricted and overweight any 250 would blow right past them.

Yes the frame and forks were getting ..old , the OIL frame inst much more than a Elgi frame , and they went quite well , Mine handled well enough ( forks let it down I will admit )

yes 250 would go past it , but different strokes ,,,my 125 could blow past a Harley ,,, I past my test on a cub , but longed for a 750 ( 650 better , actually prefered the 5ta .but dont tell )

IF the Bonnie 750 was made with today's Materials , and yesterdays design features , with hydraulic pushrods ( like Enfield are doing with the C5 ) awesome ... The C5 looks pretty damn good , ( except for the Disk brakes ,,prefer drum does I )


Ajility , ... but well thats a whole different story ....

Stephen

If you are talking Triumph , yeah 650 ,1970
ish

best bike ..............Royal Enfield Bullet ....period ( all done with a slide rule , and 50 years later I come along with the latest computer and FEA soft wear , and there IS NO FAT on the numbers ,,,,I am ALWAYs amazed ,,,,,, great bike perfectly designed ,,,, YES perfectly , ,,,right place , right time , right price )




But all they develop are new paint jobs.
look the same to me .....
[/QUOTE]

[Brian d marge]

Talking about racebikes... all the same engineers who built the Honda GP bikes built the 750 and the CBX and the 400F and all those cool things.


my last boss was the nut who had his hands in the CBX , We called him teapot because he was ,,,,,, as mad as a hatter ,,,, taught me a lot about being a mechanic though ,,,

I don't miss the Honda speeches though

Stephen

[Bren]

Dave, great read in the latest mag ...The anniversary model looks sweet with the old fashioned seat with piping...

I also like the XS/TX range from Yamaha, and as you well pointed out, it is a good Japanese take on the bonnie style...

The best bonnie for me would be the one that eventually ends up in my garage...still have not decided yet...but I do feel it is a very personal question and subject to personal opinion, likes and dislikes...One persons cuppa tea aint anothers so to speak

[the mouse]

Presuming we are talking real Coventry/ Meriden Bonnnevilles here, or are you chucking in the Hinkley lot which are absolutely not comparable, in any way.
The the burning question as pointed out ...
Best for perfomance
best for reliability
best for appeal
best for sales
best for breaking down
best for wot???

They were all good! (ducks for cover).

[invisiblehand1]

d'uh

the best bonneville is the one in your shed.

All of them have their quirks, the later ones are torquey and not super fast, the earlier ones have rubbish brakes and bendy frames but go pretty good.

all (except from Hinckley are cool). The new ones are UJMs too big, too fat too lazy and too boring.

[Beeza]

No Bonnie ever came out of Coventry as that factory was totally bombed in the Blitz in 1940, long before any Bonnie ever went into production.

[jellywrestler]

anxi'ety(adverb) the feeling one gets when flying in a Triumph powered microlight

[Big Dave]

d'uh

all (except from Hinckley are cool). The new ones are UJMs too big, too fat too lazy and too boring.

And will kick a Meriden's arse.

Good idea would be to set up a race at Puke. See if I can swing it. I can get my hands on a mint '67 maybe. Up against a SE would make interesting viewing.
I know where my money would be and it isn't on a Meriden.

Further edit - no SEs available either - all sold - even the press bike.

[Big Dave]

Presuming we are talking real Coventry/ Meriden Bonnnevilles here, or are you chucking in the Hinkley lot which are absolutely not comparable, in any way.

And why not?

Green if you can name one logical reason not based on emotion.

[Paul in NZ]

And will kick a Meriden's arse.

Good idea would be to set up a race at Puke. See if I can swing it. I can get my hands on a mint '67 maybe. Up against a SE would make interesting viewing.
I know where my money would be and it isn't on a Meriden.

Further edit - no SEs available either - all sold - even the press bike.

Yawn!

Classic bike tested the first new bonnie against the last old bonnie (T140) and the new one got spanked...

Who cares? If a Bonnie was about numerical performance it 'might' matter but when Triumph manage to run one across the saltflats in a heroic effort at a very good speed it 'might' get some respect.

[Motu]

Still working it's magic on the mile - that's good enough for me.

[MVnut]

Like the new Bonnies but always wanted a 350 Bandit:Offtopic:

[Big Dave]

Yawn!

Classic bike tested the first new bonnie against the last old bonnie (T140) and the new one got spanked...

Yawn is old school stick in the muds.

Try the SE. I stand by my comment.

Handling and responsiveness. Quite remarkable what the 17" front wheel does and the efi motor has better putsch.

[Big Dave]

I was going through my files to find this pic I have of a new bonne that has been turned into a pretty good T120 replica. Like, replica as much as possible - but allocated time passed without finding it - I did find these beauties though - ride to work day posters.

[Motu]

Oh wow - smacked in the head by a King Dick!!!!!

[Voltaire]

My vote would be for the Meridan Bonnie.
Retro vehicles just seem a bit odd to me.....Maybe if I had no mechanical skills and wanted to pretend I like classic bikes I might concider a Thruxton........ahhh no, I still like the ol bevel drive Duke.

[Max Headroom]

And why not?

Green if you can name one logical reason not based on emotion.

Dave, there's one area where Meridan Bonnie beats Hinckley Bonnie hands down. And that's future value. Let me explain . . . .

The Meridan Bonnie earned its reputation through hard-won competition success. Collectors place high value on competition success and reward it through higher value. Virtually all collectible cars & bikes share this characteristic. The Hinckley Bonnie attempts to bask in the reflected glory of the Meridan Bonnie, but it has no competition success of its own to boast about.

The Meridan Bonnie competed against its peers and won. This is something the Hinckley Bonnie can never achieve . . . . as such, its only claim to fame is the sharing of the name and having been constructed in a style reminiscent of Meridan. It has as much in common with Meridan as the New Beetle (FWD water-cooled inline 4) has with the original (RWD aircooled flat 4) Beetle. It's neither a development of the original, merely something which shares a similar silouette (from a distance, at a glance, with dark sunglasses, at night, etc). That the Hinckley Bonnie is a nice bike in its own right, capable and reliable and so on are almost irrelevant. The Kawasaki W650 was a more authentic development.

All that and I'm not even a Triumph enthusiast!!!

[Paul in NZ]

Yawn is old school stick in the muds.

Try the SE. I stand by my comment.

Handling and responsiveness. Quite remarkable what the 17" front wheel does and the efi motor has better putsch.

I'm sorry but using insults like 'stick in the mud' isn't a proper argument either. Especially when the one making them actually recieves payment to help market the new Triumphs and thus has a vested interest - it is a good tactic but I'm not buying it.

I'm sorry, I rather like my old bike, it still thrills me and it is a beautiful machine, arguably the best looking bike Triumph ever made and thats not just my opinion. Others here can tell you that whenever it's parked up amoungst the latest and greatest it recieves a lot of nice comments from all sorts. The smiles per gallon we get makes it worth riding. Best of all it is a riders bike, it's raw and alive in a way no modern machine can match, you can still smell what Steve McQueen and Bud saw in them. The modern bikes are fine machines and well developed mechanically and of course are numerically more efficient, it's nuts to claim otherwise but that does not make them 'better'.

Simply they are not for me and history will judge their worth much as the market already has. Go back to your earlier post - find a brand new SE and a brand new 67 and put them up for auction in the USA, UK or Japan and see which one attracts the most interest. Maybe, if you want to talk numbers (god forbid) then perhaps you should think about to what tune people are prepared to put their hands into their wallets to own one?

[Big Dave]

I'm sorry but using insults like 'stick in the mud' isn't a proper argument either. Especially when the one making them actually recieves payment to help market the new Triumphs and thus has a vested interest - it is a good tactic but I'm not buying it.


Nah - I haven't been paid by Triumph for anything for more than 5 years. Just an owner and enthusiast.

They make bikes available - but I'm under no obligation.

Most of the world is over the 'new ones are uncool' 'tude and see the bikes as what they are - stylish modern machines.

The old ones may be cooler to some. I'd like one as a curio.

But as a former Meriden and current Hinckley owner - there is no comparison in which vehicle I enjoy the most overall - and it's the new ones by a country mile because of the reliability and overall just get on it and go rideabilty.

But then I dislike working on motorcycles mechanically - a lot. Waste of riding or leisure time.

As far as collecting for investment or financial gain. I'd prefer a Picasso and a Matisse.

PS - normally people who question my integrity get a 2 word answer. Respec. :-)

[Voltaire]

But then I dislike working on motorcycles mechanically - a lot. Waste of riding or leisure time.

)

I prefer working on old motorcycles than going to work to pay off new ones.
But being paid to ride bikes.....how cool would that be!!!!
How about a poll?
classic vs retro?

[Big Dave]

>>Dave, there's one area where Meridan Bonnie beats Hinckley Bonnie hands down. And that's future value.<<

Current value on some - and you can still buy an old dunger for what $14k?

I suspect in 50 years my original Hinckley T'bird will have some collectible and curio value too.

[Big Dave]

I prefer working on old motorcycles than going to work to pay off new ones.


There is a best ever poll on the OP page. I voted SE. :shifty:

Part of the reason I bought my Buell is there is nothing to do to it between services. Not even a chain to adjust, no bright parts to clean.

I'm keen to follow up on taking them to the track.
Bonne v Bonne, Trident V Trident and Daytona V Daytona. (insert maniacal laugh here)

[Motu]

I suspect in 50 years my original Hinckley T'bird will have some collectible and curio value too.

That's a pity....I was hoping to pick up a cheap one in a few years time.

[Motu]

Part of the reason I bought my Buell is there is nothing to do to it between services. Not even a chain to adjust, no bright parts to clean.

Part of the reason I bought the BMW is there are plenty of things to play around with,and most are easy to get at.I love working on my bikes....it's a large part of owning them for me.

[Big Dave]

Still near the bottom of the curve for standard T'birds - but I see Thunderbird Sports are starting to attract better prices as they become a 'rarer' very good bike.


Part of the reason I bought the BMW is there are plenty of things to play around with,and most are easy to get at.I love working on my bikes....it's a large part of owning them for me.

Used my lifetime's supply of elbow grease in keeping the T'bird pristine for 10 years. Now I'd rather playstation motorbike games.

[Big Dave]

And all that said - I would like a really wild Meriden Chopper one day.

[AllanB]

And all that said - I would like a really wild Meriden Chopper one day.

On my list of 'things to do before I die' is to build a Triumph bobber. As a styling exercise I prefer them to the HD styled V-twin chops.

IMO Triumph is missing a market not producing a stripped down bobber style bonnie - Triumphs response to the Nightster basically.

Feel free to put my name forward to help them with a prototype Dave :soon:

But then Triumph has been very savvy with their model releases and they possibly have it all sorted for a later release...

[Paul in NZ]

PS - normally people who question my integrity get a 2 word answer. Respec. :-)

Sorry if I came over snarky - it was a badly worded post and unworthy of your contributions here. In my defence, I was in a hurry to go ride the Trophy down to get a wof (and yes - got my ear bent at the gas station with a 'my dad had one of those, couldn't believe my eyes etc when you rode up' etc etc). Yes - it was freezing and it rained but the bike went like a goodun and I came back with rosey cheeks and a swell in me trousers.

I would not question you integrity, quite the opposite but I would place your position into context just as my ownership of an old triumph puts my opinion into context and colours my opinions. We all see life through our own lens and our lived life experience colours that view. People who have had a horrid time with a T140 are unlikely to ever believe that an old Triumph can be a good bike.

As a student of Triumph history you might find Jim Scaysbrooks article in the aussie mag 'Old Bike' of interest. (He does not even consider a T140 a proper bonnie)... Pokes a bit of borax at the Tangerine Dream bikes too...

Dave - I LOVE triumphs... I have several old movies etc on DVD and have done a fair few movie evenings for TOMCC folks and classic clubs all with a triumph feature someplace in there. I find it sad that the attitude of the new Triumph dealers just leaves me cold though. I've offered to run a big screen or projector in their store (free) featuring triumph footage for a new model release or an owners evening, offered to lend the TR6C (free) as a prop for display of the new scrambler and at BEST the dealers have been dismissive and often plain rude..... In one case, VERY rude.... Its not just the owners of old bikes that have an issue and maybe you can see that my lived life experience colours my view....

Then again, perhaps they are scared to put the older bike alongside the newer in case of unfavourable comparison.... :third:

[Paul in NZ]

And all that said - I would like a really wild Meriden Chopper one day.

Have you seen Ewan McGreggors one? It's based on a bike featured in a classic bike mag - it looks bloody good and it's actually rideable...

The new Thunderbird engine has been cleaned up around the exhaust ports and could be used but unfortunately the massive radiator is not going to help with the lean and light 'bobber' look...

[Big Dave]

I was just riding home from a job and thought the answer I should have given was: "I might be arguing on my spare time'.

Just banter this end. I don't atchally give a toss - think they are all cool - it's just entartainment really- and professional interest in traffic to my web site - guilty.

[Paul in NZ]

I was just riding home from a job and thought the answer I should have given was: "I might be arguing on my spare time'.

Just banter this end. I don't atchally give a toss - think they are all cool - it's just entartainment really- and professional interest in traffic to my web site - guilty.

Hmm - so - what would professional argument cost me?

[Big Dave]

Add something here and I'll tell you again.

http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2009/05/looking-back-51015-years-ago.html

[popelli]

Still near the bottom of the curve for standard T'birds - but I see Thunderbird Sports are starting to attract better prices as they become a 'rarer' very good bike.



A friend of mine has bought one, beautiful bike but he has yet to tell his wife that he spend the money put aside for bay windows on it

[Paul in NZ]

Add something here and I'll tell you again.

http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2009/05/looking-back-51015-years-ago.html

Sorry - it didn't load properly on my browser???

[Big Dave]

Sorry - it didn't load properly on my browser???

Dunno sorry - it's on google blogspot - see if you can get there from the front page. 'looking back' link.

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz


or the RSS feed

http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default?alt=rss

[Paul in NZ]

Dunno sorry - it's on google blogspot - see if you can get there from the front page. 'looking back' link.

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz


I'll try later - seriously under the weather right now... (drunk).... (again)
Wanna know something really odd?

My 2nd birthday was the the first full day of production of the Bonnie.... Weird eh?

Hey - why don't you road test my bike? Might change your mind?

[Big Dave]

Hey - why don't you road test my bike? Might change your mind?


Maybe one day - I have ridden quite a few.
Oscar has the Rocket - I'm going dirt for a while.

[Paul in NZ]

Pfft - Tell ya what.. See if you can get a scrambler off Triumph and I test yours, you test mine? I'll even put you & yours up for the night and get you drunk....You write it up for a mag and ya could even make some $$.

[AllanB]

Pfft - Tell ya what.. See if you can get a scrambler off Triumph and I test yours, you test mine? I'll even put you & yours up for the night and get you drunk....You write it up for a mag and ya could even make some $$.

Excellent - I'd buy that edition.

Make sure you try to get a shot with both bikes jumping a barbed wire fence!

Scramblers - I think both of you would agree that either year/build has beaut styling by Triumph.

[Paul in NZ]

Excellent - I'd buy that edition.

Make sure you try to get a shot with both bikes jumping a barbed wire fence!

.

Pretty sure we would both have to be really drunk to try that...

[TLDV8]

As a student of Triumph history you might find Jim Scaysbrooks article in the aussie mag 'Old Bike' of interest. (He does not even consider a T140 a proper bonnie)...

A little like they stopped making Ducati's around 1985/6 (Beveldrive only which Scaysbrook raced in the day) and Husqvarna's in 87 (End of Made in Sweden).

The best Bonneville overall,some would say a 1970 650,i would have a 68 any day, had a 73 750,great bike.

[AllanB]

Pretty sure we would both have to be really drunk to try that...

Ha ha - my shout maybe?

I can imagine how this would go - too much beer, the anti gets upped and you both end up doing it starkers - just watch out for those high level pipes boys, especially 'Big' Dave :eek:

[popelli]

Best bonnie ever was 67 - they had the best quality control that year

followed by 69 followed by 68

in 1970 quality control went tits up

Truth was the single carbed trophy was a far better bike, better gas mileage, easier to tune, better bottom end, better mid range and not a lot of difference on top end

Amal could bould a better carb, but bsa and triumph would not stump up the money for it, it is almost impossible to get 2 amals exactly with the same manufacturing flaws in each so its virtually impossible to get both carbs working properly in unison

Tried for years to get my bsa lightening running properly on both cylinders on amals gave up in the end and bought some delorto's

[Big Dave]

>>end up doing it starkers<<

Won't. ever. happen. :laugh:

[Paul in NZ]

>>end up doing it starkers<<

Won't. ever. happen. :laugh:

Oh - so you are called 'big' dave just because of your height? :bleh:

I have a pair of old school leather motocross trou with a huge rip out of the crutch from such a fence, the thought of doing it naked makes would have me renamed small paul....

[Big Dave]

Oh - so you are called 'big' dave just because of your height? :bleh:
.


Actually, because I used to weigh 160kg.

[Voltaire]

The 1959 one as its the nearest to the one that claimed the "World Motorcycle Speed Record" on September the 6th 1956.
214 mph ( over 320 kmph) powered by a Thunderbird running on nitro- methane fuel.
would make a good movie.....

[PeteJ]

Ah, The Bonneville record breaker.

Built by Big D Cycles, I think.

Coincidence here...?

[Voltaire]

Ah, The Bonneville record breaker.

Built by Big D Cycles, I think.

Coincidence here...?

Was it a US made machine...as Big D don't sound very British...:confused:

[PeteJ]

(This is entirely from an aged memory, so could be incorrect...) Big D was the biggest Triumph dealership in Dallas, TX, and my recollection was that they built the Bonneville record breaker. Iron head motor, ran on methanol, full streamliner.

[Big Dave]

Stormy Mangham.

[Motu]

Most of the performance development on Triumphs was done in the US - they were used in a lot more variety of sports than Britain.Not a lot of road racing,but flattrack,desert racing,drag racing,speed records at Bonneville,and anything else they could do with them.Prior to 1970,ohv bikes were limited to 500cc in most AMA events,so the T100 came under a lot of development - after Gary Nixon won the Daytona race in 1966,a new model was named after the victory.Once the capacity was raised to 750cc,the big twin really got the push....and that's why the 750 twin was made.

[Paul in NZ]

Stormy Mangham.

Yes - and no....

Stormy built the bike and was the instigator of the project. Jack Wilson (Big D Cycles) built the engine and was probably the greatest Triumph engine tuner race bike builder in the classic period. Johnny Allen rode it...

[Paul in NZ]

(This is entirely from an aged memory, so could be incorrect...) Big D was the biggest Triumph dealership in Dallas, TX, and my recollection was that they built the Bonneville record breaker. Iron head motor, ran on methanol, full streamliner.

Yes - but by the standards of Texas Big D was a disgusting hovel in a dodgy as neighbourhood. This was early 90's from memory and I was lucky enough to meet jack Wilson and get the guided tour. That was lucky because if Jack didn't like you you had no chance...

Anyway - the place was a bloody shrine to me and I was just awestruck - they even had the dyno that he used to build the engine and were still using it - there was a pile of broken streamliner bits that were not good enough for the bike they rebuilt for the english national motorcycle museum...

Their storage facility out the back was mind numbing. 3 'beauty kit' Tridents parked in a row... (I'd never seen 1), Flat trackers, race bikes, restorations, originals - god!

This was when everyone in the world was plundering all the old triumphs from the USA and the shop had been on hard times. I arrive just as the first 'new' Triumphs appeared and attended a launch party texas style - Hillarious! I was introduced to the lads 'cos I'd come fro Noo Zeelaand to see jack...

Had a friggin ball.... Coolest place EVER...

[PeteJ]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1129232621] they even had the dyno that he used to build the engine and were still using it - there was a pile of broken streamliner bits that were not good enough for the bike they rebuilt for the english national motorcycle museum...

QUOTE]

And I believe that they reconstructed the streamliner from those bits after the NMM fire.

Great experience, yours (who, me jealous???)

[Voltaire]

cool pics and story Paul, thanks for posting.

[Paul in NZ]

Yes - they did reconstruct the streamliner.

I'll check around for the link to a tributr to Jack, and some place here I have their catalogue of stuff for old Triumphs (go faster stuff). Jack also built some seriously fast triples (road racing) as well as flat track. When he was quite past the age of reason he still set a record on one of his Tridents at Bonneville...

Man the stuff they had in that place just made my eyes pop out of my skull... I should have taken more pictues but it seemed a bit rude and they couldn't understand the fuss... The shop forman rode 100 miles a day to work and back on his 1970 T120R (the one with the screen) - he didn't think that at all odd....

All around the shop were pictures of Jack with famous people, movie stars etc that had come to that shop to get a bike of the great Jack Wilson - he died not long after and it was just one of those lucky lucky things...

I still say - Triumph, if they had half a brain ought to make a Jack Wilson 'special edition' - I've always considered him the real father of the Bonnie.. Christ, I might even buy one...

[Indiana_Jones]

If I were to buy a Bonnie I guess I'd get a 'new' one, seeing as it'd be the same price as an old one lol

-Indy

[Big Dave]

Mangham's family sent me that pic for a story on the bike. Was published in the UK in '02.

Note he's wearing a Big D tee

[Big Dave]

If I were to buy a Bonnie I guess I'd get a 'new' one, seeing as it'd be the same price as an old one lol

-Indy

When you are ready for a test ride I'll go with you.

[Indiana_Jones]

When you are ready for a test ride I'll go with you.

Well I just got my Daytona 600, So I don't think I should be test riding many new bikes just incase I feel a change of heart lol

*test rode a Street Triple today, was mean!*

-Indy




.......so when you wanna go? :shifty:

[Big Dave]

Do you have a Yellow stealth bomber Daytona 600?

I'll let you know next time I have a Bonne.

[Indiana_Jones]

Do you have a Yellow stealth bomber Daytona 600?

I'll let you know next time I have a Bonne.

The slick silver one :shifty:

and nice to know lol :eek:

-Indy

[Big Dave]

The slick silver one :shifty:

and nice to know lol :eek:

-Indy

Interesting motorcycle Indy - great looking thing.

You should go to RAT night.

[Indiana_Jones]

Interesting motorcycle Indy - great looking thing.

You should go to RAT night.

That they are :love:

When are the RAT nights?

-Indy

[Big Dave]

That they are :love:

When are the RAT nights?

-Indy


If I could remember that I would go more often. I think it's 3rd tues of the month at the bar across from the library.

[Indiana_Jones]

If I could remember that I would go more often. I think it's 3rd tues of the month at the bar across from the library.

Which library would that be?

-Indy

[Big Dave]

Which library would that be?

-Indy

The one with the books.

[Indiana_Jones]

The one with the books.

You donno do you? lol

-Indy

[Big Dave]

Orclund city library - directly across the lane.

[invisiblehand1]

intrigued that this debate is still going on.

I will try and explain why i find the hinkley triumph to be a fat UJM.

I tried to buy one. As you can see I already have a Meriden T140 (lightly customised with decent brakes). I took my old NTX trailie down to motorad last summer to get it serviced for a re-vin. While there I saw the cool offroad bonnie they had there, in the "right" colours of lime green and silver. It was a very good price, and this is the new bonnie that most did it for me.

Immediately thoughts of trade-in and increased debt swung into action. I borrowed the scrambler for a test ride. I filled it with gas and took it for a spin round the bays.

It IS fat, and weighs about 40 kg too much for a twin. The engine makes a sewing machine noise and doesn't seem to have any character. The suspension is a bit squishy, but works fine, the brakes are light and work fine too. It did things in a pleasant, no nonsense and capable way.

I tried dropping a gear and hoofing it, more sewing machine noise, and it quietly got on with the job.

As the ride went on, I found myself realising that at probably 5-7k more than the NTX it did nothing more competently, and wasnt really engaging with me emotionally.

I took it back, and took the Guzzi on the same route. BRRRRRM, motorcycle noises happened, I got real feedback from the engine, frame and forks, the brakes work fine, if slightly wooden brembo feel, and really no more dive than the scrambler (Ok a bit more). FUN.

I then went home and got out my T140 and did the route again. Woo hoo. proper noises. Better handling than the hinkley. lots of that lovely low-down grunt with the triumph bark (bike has peashooters). Undoubtedly not as grunty as the hinkley, but you feel it more. The brakes work (Hyde does that for you) the gearbox is nice (except it will never find neutral at rest) the clutch is heavy and the brakes do lack feel. Its more tiring to ride, and I probably would never be brave enough to just hop on and ride to Auckland.

But the T140 and the NTX are still in the shed, and i bought an old sporty to play with as a day-to-day bike - which promptly died by the side of the road in masterton, and I started to learn about vibration and electrical connections.

All my bikes are "alive" and thats how I like it these days, they are only toys and i want my toys to give me something back.

If a bike was still my only transport (as they were between when I was 16 and 28) then I would still buy a Guzzi over a hinkley triumph. (have now had 4 guzzis). The carbed jackal is everything the triumph tries to be, and just does it all better.

Now the speed triple - thats a different kettle of fish. As someone said earlier, the new bonnie is a copy, not the real thing, it doesnt stack up against its contemporary technology, and thats the only test that matters. The speed triple does stack up, and thats the one that will be the classic in 30 years time.

Just my 0.2c on a horrible wet sunday

[Edbear]

...Just my 0.2c on a horrible wet sunday

Nice and sunny up here...:msn-wink:

[invisiblehand1]

hell I'm in wellington, and its just started snowing! mostly sleet, but its been hailing all morning. Snow at the end of May - damn, when's the global warming going to turn up. I've been out sweeping the deck and frozen my bits off, even the dogs won't go outside.

[Indiana_Jones]

Bonnies make me wet.

-Indy

[rosie631]

When I decide (or circumstances decide for me) that I'm too old and doddery for the VFR then a Bonnie seems the likely replacement. The new one with the 17 inch wheels might be the go, if somebody actually makes modern rubber for it, and the smaller wheels don't reduce ground clearance too much...

Same here. A Bonnie is going to be my retirement bike ( no offence intended to anyone that rides one) Probably the T100

[Bounce001]

The best Bonnie ever is my one!! It is a 1974 T120V. And yes it is a very rare bike, mine is one of the last 1500 ever made. Beautiful to ride. Cars hear you coming and move out of the way, small enough to fit between cars in the trafic, sits on about 60mph all day and loves those windy roads.

[Indiana_Jones]

The best Bonnie ever is my one!! It is a 1974 T120V. And yes it is a very rare bike, mine is one of the last 1500 ever made. Beautiful to ride. Cars hear you coming and move out of the way, small enough to fit between cars in the trafic, sits on about 60mph all day and loves those windy roads.

Show off lol

-Indy

[sir]

I would like to think mine was but its just not quite there yet , it is certainly the bonnie with the best potential , lol .

[Indiana_Jones]

I tried dropping a gear and hoofing it, more sewing machine noise, and it quietly got on with the job.


After market silencers will fix that problem :2thumbsup

-Indy

[invisiblehand1]

yeah you're right. But the size is the killer. The bonnies are really lardy - and I really wanted to like it, i went down to ride the scrambler with the money burning a hole, and I didnt buy. In fact I've accidentally bought 2 more Guzzis in the interim, both 1970s tonti framed cafe racers - brooommmmmm

:)

[kr250]

Agree Yank spec tank and nearly flat bars, just like mine, any body got forks, front wheel complete and clocks for 73 Daytona 500, some clown put Jap front end on it

[Bandit Rider]

Back to the original question: I am with 69 - 70. But, pre-unit is part of the "glory days", a superb engine when it was designed.

[Big Dave]

The bonnies are really lardy )

I don't agree with that. In fact if I was in the market for an ADV bike it would be a Scrambler or a DR650/KLR650, depending on finances at the time.

[Motu]

I think you are the only person who thinks the new Bonnie is a lithe and nimble bike similar to the old model.The Triumph was lighter than the BSA,lighter than the Norton,lighter the Matchless,lighter than the AJS,lighter than the Royal Enfield.Because it was a lighter bike than all it's opposition,it was more nimble and light handling,a joy to ride.

A fat overweight Bonnie doesn't deserve the name.Fat bikes are like fat people...worthy of disrespect.

[Big Dave]

I think you are the only person who thinks the new Bonnie is a lithe and nimble bike similar to the old model.The Triumph was lighter than the BSA,lighter than the Norton,lighter the Matchless,lighter than the AJS,lighter than the Royal Enfield.Because it was a lighter bike than all it's opposition,it was more nimble and light handling,a joy to ride.

A fat overweight Bonnie doesn't deserve the name.Fat bikes are like fat people...worthy of disrespect.

Maybe it's just that I'm over 4' tall.

New SE steers beautifully. Doesn't have great ground clearance - but till then there is NUFFING wrong with it. In fact it's very nice and very pleasant to ride.

Ridden a Scrambler all around the north island and done a capital coast ADV ride on it. I'd buy one for solo riding. Damn fine bike.

The fact that there is so many of them on the road also suggests I'm far from the only one.

It has a starter motor, oil cooler, anti-pollution equipment, a huge battery, working electricals and all the other necessaries for a bike to be saleable in 2010. That weighs more. But they don't make it some sort of slug as purported.

Maybe you and Paul are the 'only' Old codgers left with a stick up their arse about the good old days. :-p

[Ixion]

Yes, but only because they weighed them at the end of the road test. Since a significant proportion of the Triumph's component parts had been left scattered at the road side, naturally it weighed in lighter. It was a lot lower and narrower than the Hinck. Even the scrap iron collection is lower and narrower (and lighter ) than the Hinck

[Big Dave]

The mass of the vehicle is not as important as location of its mid-mid-middle.

The improvements is Kyaba suspension over the past 5 years is also notable.

In 2001 the first thing you'd do is change out the shocks. That is no longer as urgent.

[Edbear]

I think you are the only person who thinks the new Bonnie is a lithe and nimble bike similar to the old model.The Triumph was lighter than the BSA,lighter than the Norton,lighter the Matchless,lighter than the AJS,lighter than the Royal Enfield.Because it was a lighter bike than all it's opposition,it was more nimble and light handling,a joy to ride.

A fat overweight Bonnie doesn't deserve the name.Fat bikes are like fat people...worthy of disrespect.

Oi!!! I resemble that remark! :girlfight:


The mass of the vehicle is not as important as location of its mid-mid-middle.
The improvements is Kyaba suspension over the past 5 years is also notable.

In 2001 the first thing you'd do is change out the shocks. That is no longer as urgent.

Yup! My mass is right in the middle... :yes:

[Paul in NZ]

Maybe you and Paul are the 'only' Old codgers left with a stick up their arse about the good old days. :-p

I don't think that comment is worthy of you Dave. It is possible to agree to disagree and my taste runs to something else. If disagreeing with your 100% Triumph appologist social marketing program makes me an anal stick siting antique, so be it! The thing is, I'm genuinely interested in the history of the bikes and the era post war to the early 70's and I am entitled to a perfectly valid opinion.

I wanted Triumph to make a really good performance bike to take that name and instead they have made a popular bike to sell to other people who have a hazy memory about what a bonne really meant. For the record, I'm not a huge fan of stock T140's either even though they are considerably more advanced than the original.

For what its worth - I see very few of the new twins at classic bike club runs but a lot more W650's. I'd venture to suggest your average new triumph buyer is not much interested in history.

[YellowDog]

The choice between buying a brand new reliable modern piece of retro nostalgia OR a 35 year old restoration job with heaps of character IS an easy one for me.

I've ridden a Bonnie SE and thought it was a super piece of kit. I rode a Bonnie in the 70s and loved it too (even the oil spray on my jeans) - but it's all relative. I am sure that I would hate it now.

I really do admire those guys who spend thousands on their projects and the satisfaction of a completed project (most don't ever complete them) by far outweighs anything you could possibly buy - BUT if I AM buying and not restoring, I will always buy as new and modern as I can.

[Paul in NZ]

The choice between buying a brand new reliable modern piece of retro nostalgia OR a 35 year old restoration job with heaps of character IS an easy one for me.

I've ridden a Bonnie SE and thought it was a super piece of kit. I rode a Bonnie in the 70s and loved it too (even the oil spray on my jeans) - but it's all relative. I am sure that I would hate it now.

I really do admire those guys who spend thousands on their projects and the satisfaction of a completed project (most don't ever complete them) by far outweighs anything you could possibly buy - BUT if I AM buying and not restoring, I will always buy as new and modern as I can.

To clarify - in my opinion the SE or one of its brothers are ideal for you BUT that does not make it the best bonnie ever. It makes it the best bonnie for you and good onya. (I just like winding Dave up)

BTW - I know lots of people that have never stopped riding their old trumphs and have many many miles on them and they dont spend thousands, they may spend many hours however....

[Voltaire]

The choice between buying a brand new reliable modern piece of retro nostalgia OR a 35 year old restoration job with heaps of character IS an easy one for me.

This is a good point.
Personally I like the 59 Bonnie and the history that goes with it. I restored a 1959 T110 ( which I still have ) 20 years ago.
I took a " new " Bonnie for a ride at Holeshots with the intention of possibly of buying a Thruxton.
I did about 30 kms up the back roads of Albany, and I was glad to give it back.
It might have Triumph on the tank and Bonnie on the sidecovers but as far as I'm concerned its about as authentic as a new Mini or VW Beetle.
If I could only have one bike ( and I had no mechanical skills )it would be a modern, but it would not be a retro.
Probably the best of the retro bikes would be the Ducati 1000.

[Motu]

Maybe you and Paul are the 'only' Old codgers left with a stick up their arse about the good old days. :-p

Must be something about the name.I'm not lost in the past...but the past is a good benchmark to compare something new with,even if the new is only a week newer than the old.It's what we do as humans,and I see it often in your articles and road tests - even if you road tested a new hoverbike,I'm sure you would have to make a comparison to how much better it is than the old wheeled motorcycle.

Every motor vehicle gets bigger along the way - take the Toyota Corolla for example,the latest version is much bigger than the 1969 model,but has better performance in every way,is safer and more fuel efficient,and no one in their right mind would say the old one was better.But they had to make the Starlet to take the small corollas place...and now we have things like the VITZ.

But what I have a stick up my arse about is weight - to me the whole thrill and excitement of a motorcycle is a high performance engine in a light chassis.Sure,put a more powerful engine in a heavier frame and it'll be faster than a lighter bike with less powerful engine,but the best way to increase performance is to take weight off,always has been.I just don't like overweight motorcycles - I'm sure if I had the excess cash to by a new Bonnie I'd be very happy with the product.But if I wanted a vertical twin to compare to a '69 Bonnie....I'd take my R65.

[trustme]

Hmmmm , Meriden cooperative grenade or Hinkley swiss watch ? ?

My 76 T140 Street tracker will be for the Sunday pootle when finished
My Scram will continue to be used when I have to get somewhere on time, reliably using pretty much any road or non road I like

It's heavy , quiet [ fixed ], crap suspension [ fixed ],underpowered [ soon to be fixed ] , overengineered & bloody reliable . Guys are getting over 100000 miles with no internal work . Imagine if it had been available in the sixties & seventies, Do you seriously think we would have stayed with the Meriden stuff. I suspect the specs for the CB750 that killed off the UK industry are not that far off the new Bonnie

Mind you, a ' 69 ' is not to be sneezed at.

[AllanB]

I still think the W650 Kawasaki is more "Bonneville" than the new Triumph Bonneville.

I wish Triumph would bring out a limited edition hot-rod Bonnie - I always thought they would, but it does not appear to be coming.

[trustme]

I wish Triumph would bring out a limited edition hot-rod Bonnie - I always thought they would, but it does not appear to be coming.

+100 Triumph accessories are too much form , too little function & must be gold plated to justify the price

The yanks do some pretty good hot rod mods for them

[Voltaire]

I should start an equally pointless thread titiled " the Best Ducati 900SS Ever" and proceed to go on about how much better the injected 900 in every way compared to the bevel 900ss......

....At least the comparison would be bikes built at the same factory unlike the Hinkley/Meriden one....and the 900ssie is a blood relative of the original.

Lets get away from clones and back to classic bikes.....:innocent:

[PeeJay]

Talk about rose tinted glasses
A 69 Bonny WAS good in 1969, but you would have to be nuts to think they are "better" than a new Bonny.
As a young fella I rode a preunit and compared to the little Jap bikes and old singles it was pretty good. When I grew up a bit I had a 67 trophy, miles better than that crapped out preunit. Then a brand new 70 bonny awesome.
But there is no way that I would say any of these bikes were "better" than a new T100.
They were great bikes in their time but today they would be rubbish.

As someone has said these new bikes are clocking up in excess of 100,000 km without engine work. In the olden days you would be real lucky to get 10,000 miles without layng major spanners on your bike.
If a 69 Bonny is so good why isnt it still in production?
Probably have to sell for $100,000 to cover all the warranty work.
cheers

[Voltaire]

Talk about rose tinted glasses


The prefered viewing medium of the classic section.
Why are modern bikes being discussed here anyway?

[Dodgyiti]

The prefered viewing medium of the classic section.
Why are modern bikes being discussed here anyway?

Yep, we would all go out and buy new Bonnies if it were not for the rose tinted glassess and a die hard attitude to keeping the past alive, or at least in bits around the garage...

100,000km without engine work, so what do I do in the garage then? Spray my tools with CRC so they don't rust or take them to the scrappie for recycling and get the dealer to do my servicing? May as well find another hobbie, maybe quilting?

[triumphnz]

Triumph t140 harris 1985 to 1988 twin brembo disc brakes as std and ss gaurds, also the t140 1977/78 .

[Big Dave]

I'd venture to suggest your average new triumph buyer is not much interested in history.

How do you know I wasn't talking about Paul Jones huh.....twiggy.
New Triumph 675 - Tiger etc buyers maybe - but I bet they like the historical imagery.
But not new Bonneville buyers. Most of my pals actually have or had both a Meriden and a Hinckley in the shed at the same time. Chris, Andy, Max - liked the way they could have a similarly performed machine with modern day reliability.

[Max Headroom]

Talk about rose tinted glasses
A 69 Bonny WAS good in 1969, but you would have to be nuts to think they are "better" than a new Bonny.
As a young fella I rode a preunit and compared to the little Jap bikes and old singles it was pretty good. When I grew up a bit I had a 67 trophy, miles better than that crapped out preunit. Then a brand new 70 bonny awesome.
But there is no way that I would say any of these bikes were "better" than a new T100.
They were great bikes in their time but today they would be rubbish.

As someone has said these new bikes are clocking up in excess of 100,000 km without engine work. In the olden days you would be real lucky to get 10,000 miles without layng major spanners on your bike.
If a 69 Bonny is so good why isnt it still in production?
Probably have to sell for $100,000 to cover all the warranty work.
cheers

PeeJay, if there was a clearcut and universally held answer to the OP's question, we wouldn't still be banging on about it ten pages later . . .

There's a huge amount of $$$ and skill required to design, manufacture, market and distribute a bike which is reliable, handles well, performs well and stops when required. There's a certain amount of luck involved in order to entice the buying public to part with their money instead of buying another brand.

Some excellent bikes have been commercial disasters, and vice versa. Not every commercially successful bike is brilliant, and not every commercial flop was necessarily a dog. A Royal Enfield is unlikely to be regarded by anyone as a brilliant bike technically yet it's undoubtedly been a commercial success for decades. Ditto the Honda stepthru. Localised market forces have a big influence.

Asking why a '69 Bonnie isn't in production any more strikes me as an odd question, since motorcycling history is full of reasons for its demise as well as the demise of its manufacturer. To have an appreciation of classic bikes means that one will generally also have an interest in recent social, financial, political and industrial history in order to apply context. One will generally also have respect for older machinery, and an ability to appreciate that machinery for what it is, not what it isn't.

I am personally quite fascinated by the period covering the late '60s through to the late '70s in terms of car & motorcycle technology & development, and view that decade as foundational to the current range of 2 & 4 wheeled vehicles in many respects.

[Big Dave]

I don't think that comment is worthy of you Dave..

Sparking you up is always worthy. Calling Motu short was out of line - he's at least 4'6"

[TripleZee Dyno]

Triumph t140 harris 1985 to 1988 twin brembo disc brakes as std and ss gaurds, also the t140 1977/78 .

Harris Bonnevilles, great idea but shocking execution.
I was a mechanic at Shafts at the time and these things were terrible.
The best thing you could say about them was they were a fettlers wet dream.
Chassis and electrics seemed pretty good but quality control especially to do with the engine, was non existant. More than one engine was pulled out and replaced with a Triumph engine.
My pick would be the TSS, unbreakable bottom end, and it went like the hammers.
Unfortunately a day late and a dollar short.

[YellowDog]

This is a good point.
Personally I like the 59 Bonnie and the history that goes with it. I restored a 1959 T110 ( which I still have ) 20 years ago.
I took a " new " Bonnie for a ride at Holeshots with the intention of possibly of buying a Thruxton.
I did about 30 kms up the back roads of Albany, and I was glad to give it back.
It might have Triumph on the tank and Bonnie on the sidecovers but as far as I'm concerned its about as authentic as a new Mini or VW Beetle.
If I could only have one bike ( and I had no mechanical skills )it would be a modern, but it would not be a retro.
Probably the best of the retro bikes would be the Ducati 1000.

I have been involved with restoration projects in the past and if you have the time - IMO - there is nothing better or more rewarding.

I'd take my hat off to you (if I had one). Great work.

[AllanB]

Asking why a '69 Bonnie isn't in production any more

Because 96.5% (roughly....) of motorcycledom would not tolerate them and they would be a commercial failure.

Doesn't mean they are not a beautiful piece of kit and most certainly worthy of my dream garage, it's just that things have progress in the last 40 years!

And just quietly there was a reason all those british brands failed and went under decades ago.

I wonder what people will be getting excited over in 40 years time - probably arguing the merits of a 01 GSXR against a 09 model ......

I was on a forum a while back discussing 'naked' bikes - some young chap in his early 20's came on and commented that he just did not get the naked bikes as he did not want to see all that messy engine and stuff ............. obviously he is some form of serial masturbator, but there were a few of the younguns who shared the same opinion.

[triumphnz]

Harris Bonnevilles, great idea but shocking execution.
I was a mechanic at Shafts at the time and these things were terrible.
The best thing you could say about them was they were a fettlers wet dream.
Chassis and electrics seemed pretty good but quality control especially to do with the engine, was non existant. More than one engine was pulled out and replaced with a Triumph engine.
My pick would be the TSS, unbreakable bottom end, and it went like the hammers.
Unfortunately a day late and a dollar short.

That would be spot on the third harris ive owned and ive fully rebuilt alL of them the current one has only the cases and head left from the original motor but now it flies ive camed it balanced 32mm carbs belt drive etc.Once sorted they are a good bike .

[Paul in NZ]

Sparking you up is always worthy. Calling Motu short was out of line - he's at least 4'6"

How could you possibly estimate that from your height - proof you lack judgement I think ;-)

All this 'best' stuff is crazy as it is essential to define 'best' and the context in which its used. I'm not crazy enough to think a new bike is going to be technically better than a 40 year old design but that not what 'best' may mean in a classic bike forum is it?

BD thinks the SE is the best - I'd have no issue if he said its the best of the Hinckley era and could not argue.

The 68 to 70 bikes were probably the best of the 'classic' era purely on looks and development of the original theme.

But - if you think the 'best' is the one that had the biggest impact on the times and the industry then the original Tangarine Dream is streets ahead. It was something people went to bikes shows and went 'cor' over... (arguably though the original delta headed 500's were really the original though??

[Edbear]

I still think the W650 Kawasaki is more "Bonneville" than the new Triumph Bonneville.

I wish Triumph would bring out a limited edition hot-rod Bonnie - I always thought they would, but it does not appear to be coming.

I agree, the best "Bonnie" ever built, the Kawasaki W650. It keeps truer to the original concept of light, good looking and is a good bike ion its own right. While I feel the Triumph T100, the new SE, the Scrambler and the Thruxton are great bikes as well, I do think they have missed the point that Kawasaki understood. If I could only choose one bike of the two makes it would be the W650, otherwise I would add the Scrambler and the Thruxton into the garage.


That would be spot on the third harris ive owned and ive fully rebuilt alL of them the current one has only the cases and head left from the original motor but now it flies ive camed it balanced 32mm carbs belt drive etc.Once sorted they are a good bike .

Ahah, the old, "Sell them and let the customer finish the development!" philosophy. So like the British motor industry back then... :yes:

[Dodgyiti]

I watched a disturbing documentary on the state of our dog breeds. It kind of sums up how I feel about not just the new Bonnies, but pretty much new bikes in general.
In the doco, they were making the statement that our dog breeds are in real trouble from selective breeding and a lot of the breeds contain less than 10% of their genetics now as measured 50 years ago. Or something to that effect.
The regulations on pollution, safety and the like added to the manufacturer's trend of making bikes rider friendly have sanitised the whole riding experience for me. And I guess that is how I would sum up the new Bonnie; sanitised containing less that 10% of the original Bonnie's DNA

[Big Dave]

best |best| superlative of good .
adjective
of the most excellent, effective, or desirable type or quality : the best pitcher in the league | how to obtain the best results from your machine | her best black suit.
• most enjoyable : some of the best times of my life.
• most appropriate, advantageous, or well advised : do whatever you think best | it's best if we both go.
adverb

Thesaurus
best
adjective
1 the best hotel in Rhode Island finest, greatest, top, foremost, leading, preeminent, premier, prime, first, chief, principal, supreme, of the highest quality, superlative, par excellence, unrivaled, second to none, without equal, nonpareil, unsurpassed, peerless, matchless, unparalleled, unbeaten, unbeatable, optimum, optimal, ultimate, incomparable, ideal, perfect; highest, record-breaking; informal star, number-one, a cut above the rest, top-drawer, the Cadillac of, the Rolls-Royce of. antonym worst.
2 do whatever you think best most advantageous, most useful, most suitable, most fitting, most appropriate; most prudent, most sensible, most advisable.
adverb
1 the best-dressed man to the highest standard, in the best way. antonym worst.
2 the food he liked best most, to the highest/greatest degree. antonym least.
3 this is best done at home most advantageously, most usefully, most suitably, most fittingly, most appropriately; most sensibly, most prudently, most wisely; better.
noun
1 only the best will do finest, choicest, top, cream, choice, prime, elite, crème de la crème, flower, jewel in the crown, nonpareil; informal tops, pick of the bunch.
2 she dressed in her best best clothes, finery, Sunday best; informal glad rags.
3 give her my best best wishes, regards, kind/kindest regards, greetings, compliments, felicitations, respects; love.
verb informal
she was not to be bested defeat, beat, get the better of, outdo, outwit, outsmart, worst, be more than a match for, prevail over, vanquish, trounce, triumph over; surpass, outclass, outshine, put someone in the shade, overshadow, eclipse; informal lick.
PHRASES
do one's best we'll do our best to make sure you get a good education do one's utmost, try one's hardest, make every effort, do all one can, give one's all; informal bend over backwards, do one's damnedest, go all out, pull out all the stops, bust a gut, break one's neck, move heaven and earth.
had best you had best check the pantry for moths ought to, should.

[Voltaire]

How very interesting.......Is this why I only read Classic Bike Magazine?

[Big Dave]

How very interesting.......Is this why I only read Classic Bike Magazine?

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[Max Headroom]

Thing is BD, we constantly evaluate the present by comparing it to the past, and we measure the past by comparing it to the present. Ignoring everything from the past is as ignorant as disregarding everything which is current. A retro is presumed to mix the best of the old with the best of current practice/expectation, but the reality is often wide of the mark by varying degrees. Witness Exhibit A: the Chrysler PT Cruiser . . .

Not everything which is old is necessarily crap, while not everything new is necessarily an overwhelming improvement. And as for determining what is "best", in spite of your exhaustive list of definitions the final determination will still be subjective and likely to be challenged by someone who disagrees for some or other reason.

[SPman]

Probably the best of the retro bikes would be the Ducati 1000. Except - like most of us, it's got broader in the beam and a fat arse over time!

[Voltaire]

Except - like most of us, it's got broader in the beam and a fat arse over time!

Your so right...when I first started looking at a modern bike a couple of years ago, I noticed that the Ducati single seats were like old tractor seats.
The SS I bought has a much larger seat than the old Darmah Bevel and it was a sports/tourer in its day.

[Big Dave]

Not everything which is old is necessarily crap,

Not saying it is. Just that the modern ones are better. Mainly because it's interesting to see the opposition rail.

[Dodgyiti]

I like the look of the Ducati classic range as well as the Triumph ones. The Ducati 1000S with the Paul Smart type fairing to me is a very nice looking bike. I don't know why on earth the seat is so hard core, maybe the type of rider it is aimed at has developed their own padding over the years :o

[Voltaire]

Not saying it is. Just that the modern ones are better. Mainly because it's interesting to see the opposition rail.

Modern ones are better........

funny that, I have two Ducati's that are 20 years apart, i never think of one as being better than the other, I just enjoy them for what they are.
If I could only have one of them, it would be the Bevel drive one as it is more fun to own than the massed produced Ducati's.
I'm looking forward to getting my 50 year old Triumph back on the road, much more rewarding than buying a bike from a shop.
any idea where I can get a new set of rose tinted glasses from : lol:

[Ixion]

All this arguafying is because the thread is comparing apples and oranges. Hinckley B onnie and Meriden Bonnie are plain different things. Like asking which is the best Thunderbolt and then arguing whether the BSA or Buell is " better" . They just happen to have the same name ( and in Triumphs case, some cosmetic gestures).

The demographics each was aimed at are totally different. Hinckley, elderly born again wanting a easy riding no hassles bike for weekend excursions to a local cafe. Meriden was aimed at the young hoon wanting a socially irresponsible speed machine for unsafe fanging round the North Circular. It's inevitable that the design briefs will be quite different. And the person who likes one won't like the other. I prefer Meriden myself but that's just me. One day when I'm old I'll probably change my mind

[Pegasus]

The 09 Bonneville SE (black) is what my missus desires when she completes her class 6 licence. Who am I to say no!:D

The New Bonnie is what my money went on. Not that I have ridden a lot of bikes (total of 4, & the first 2 I never got to do any more than 1st gear in the back yard). Was love at first sight though, and no regrets yet. Very forgiving bike, and it has gotten me out of my first scrape now.

Best Bike ever :love:

[Paul in NZ]

Now if Triumph could ditch the lardy looks and build something cool like this.... (scanned from a classic bike mag)

Sigh... but they wont...

[Edbear]

All this arguafying is because the thread is comparing apples and oranges. Hinckley B onnie and Meriden Bonnie are plain different things. Like asking which is the best Thunderbolt and then arguing whether the BSA or Buell is " better" . They just happen to have the same name ( and in Triumphs case, some cosmetic gestures).

The demographics each was aimed at are totally different. Hinckley, elderly born again wanting a easy riding no hassles bike for weekend excursions to a local cafe. Meriden was aimed at the young hoon wanting a socially irresponsible speed machine for unsafe fanging round the North Circular. It's inevitable that the design briefs will be quite different. And the person who likes one won't like the other. I prefer Meriden myself but that's just me. One day when I'm old I'll probably change my mind


Psst... You are old... :shutup:


Now if Triumph could ditch the lardy looks and build something cool like this.... (scanned from a classic bike mag)

Sigh... but they wont...

Nup! That's why you have to do it yourself. Good news is that you now have a reliable modern engine to put in it! :yes:

[Big Dave]

Sigh... but they wont...

Because of Governments, statutes and the majority of consumer's desire for practical, utility vehicles.

[Indiana_Jones]

Because of Governments, statutes and the majority of consumer's desire for practical, utility vehicles.

What he said.

-Indy