I just dont gettit.

[FROSTY]

I see people -Myself included making silly mistakes in our personal lives and I put it down to what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger.
Then talking to an aquaintence recently we realised that theres some really BIG fuckups being made here in NZ.
Do you realise that one north island hospital Has spent millions developing a wonderfull computer system so that a patients files including Xrays can be easilly viewed by any doctor looking after the patient.But NO OTHER hospital is able to access or use this system and worse THEY DONT WANT TO
Did you know that the gubbment was offered a all doing all telling computer system so that information could be quickly and easily shared between all the universities nation wide. The cost to the universities was ZERO--zip nada. They universally rejected the system giving a number of stupid excuses. -One university said they had their own system and diddn't want to share info with others
6 months later 2 universities are now PAYING to utilise this system and the university with their own system--go figure it failed hugely
Local gubbiment rewards employeees for INcompetence or in other words the only way to get promoted is to be shit at your job.
And now the latest little gem The politico's refused a pay increase on the grounds that noone else is getting one (good on em) but no its not allowed they MUST take a pay increase.
shit Im glad we dont have nukes

[Mully]

True that, Frosty.

Did you know that Auckland Hospital don't put wristbands on pre-surgery patients with a list of medicines they are allergic to? It's in the chart, but of course no-one reads the damn chart.

This was evidenced by Miss Mully having to tell Auckland (repeatedly) that her mother was allergic to penicillin and it had a slight side effect on her (i.e Death, quickly).

And then a surgeon (when Miss Mully wasn't there) asking her (doped up) mother if Miss Mully knew what anaphyalxis actually was because he really wanted to give her penicillin.

Unfortunately, it seems to be an epidemic in public institutions.

[mynameis]

IT Project f**k ups are a major in this country, that's just the tip of the ice berg. Infact most major IT Projects taken up in this country were f**k ups.

Does come down to communication between users of the system and developers. Some would recall the IBM vs Police case. Who won :)

I am sure I read a thread about it somewhere here, years ago.

Waiting for Finn...

[James Deuce]

IT Project f**k ups are a major in this country, that's just the tip of the ice berg. Infact most major IT Projects taken up in this country were f**k ups.

Does come down to communication between users of the system and developers. Some would recall the IBM vs Police case. Who won :)

I am sure I read a thread about it somewhere here, years ago.

Waiting for Finn...

Bullshit. Multi-Government Department IT Projects are always fuck ups and it usually has nothing to do with the victim IT companies doing the work.

Most IT Projects are fucked because most IT managers report to Accountants who wouldn't know a critical project component if it fell out of a helicopter and landed on their cardigan wearing wife.

[FROSTY]

True that, Frosty.

Did you know that Auckland Hospital don't put wristbands on pre-surgery patients with a list of medicines they are allergic to? It's in the chart, but of course no-one reads the damn chart.

This was evidenced by Miss Mully having to tell Auckland (repeatedly) that her mother was allergic to penicillin and it had a slight side effect on her (i.e Death, quickly).

And then a surgeon (when Miss Mully wasn't there) asking her (doped up) mother if Miss Mully knew what anaphyalxis actually was because he really wanted to give her penicillin.

Unfortunately, it seems to be an epidemic in public institutions.

Dude change the name to Frosty and the place to north shore hopital EXACTLY the same thing happened.

[FROSTY]

Bullshit. Multi-Government Department IT Projects are always fuck ups and it usually has nothing to do with the victim IT companies doing the work.

Most IT Projects are fucked because most IT managers report to Accountants who wouldn't know a critical project component if it fell out of a helicopter and fell on their cardigan wearing wife.
aCTUALLY THE POINT WITH THE UNIVERSITY THING WAS --IT WAS A TRIED AND PROVEN SYSTEM--COMPLETE. AND IT WAS OFFERED TO THEM FOR FREE

[James Deuce]

Universities are corporate research centres, not Government institutions, and the tax payer shouldn't be funding them at all. If a corporate sponsor doesn't want a competitor's product in a University, it doesn't go in.

[Mully]

Dude change the name to Frosty and the place to north shore hopital EXACTLY the same thing happened.

Hmm, that's a bit scary. But not surprising unfortunately.

[Nasty]

INCIS (the Police IBM case) was a total fail due to multiple factors - the majority of which come back to out of control project with little/read no project governance.

Majority is IT projects fail

1. Due to lack of communication.
2. Through not being scoped properly in the first place
3. Then having out of control change processes
4. Through a lack of Governance or decision making
5. Through a lack of or improper project management.

In fact, most IT projects don't make it past the investigation/scoping phase and that is totally appropriate.

There are multiple papers written on project failure that its not funny, but most aspects of an IT project can lead to failure. One of the most important factors is to get the information as correct and right as possible to ensure that as much is known upfront as possible.

As far as medical systems go there is much happening at the moment, including hospitals coming together with their IT resources so that information can be shared. This is a little known thing - but it is actually a good move. Until recently all Healthcare institutions collected information differently .. under different standards and in fact that is if any standards were used. I was involved in the setting of healthcare standards data a while ago and those standards are slowly being picked up and used. It amazes me that people expect these things to be instant. After all it is not that long since health was totally paper based. And not too much better off.

I think that these is a mixing of frustrations in the OP's first post - but on others input these are some of my thoughts anyway.

[mynameis]

Bullshit. Multi-Government Department IT Projects are always fuck ups and it usually has nothing to do with the victim IT companies doing the work.

Most IT Projects are fucked because most IT managers report to Accountants who wouldn't know a critical project component if it fell out of a helicopter and landed on their cardigan wearing wife.

NOTHING to do with the VICTIM IT Company? Ppppfffttt..I see some IT person speaking from their side only.

You'd wonder why most projects are blown out of budget with little/no result and end up failing.

Nasty outlines:


INCIS (the Police IBM case) was a total fail due to multiple factors - the majority of which come back to out of control project with little/read no project governance.

Majority is IT projects fail

1. Due to lack of communication.
2. Through not being scoped properly in the first place
3. Then having out of control change processes
4. Through a lack of Governance or decision making
5. Through a lack of or improper project management.

In fact, most IT projects don't make it past the investigation/scoping phase and that is totally appropriate.

There are multiple papers written on project failure that its not funny, but most aspects of an IT project can lead to failure. One of the most important factors is to get the information as correct and right as possible to ensure that as much is known upfront as possible.



+1

[kevfromcoro]

fuck ups
you want to see a fuck up
this is the biggest fuckup since dunkirk..
iam working on a site at taranaki

there are a 1000 of us working on site and we earn $3000 a week
out of that 1000 about 10 of us do any work
on top of that .. most of the stuff we are doing is rework
fixing other peoples fuckups
no wonder these think big projects cost so much
its a fucken JOKE

[Usarka]

The issue is more fundamental than computer systems. It's systems in general - if they can't get this right there is no point in automating.

I just got a letter from the hospital saying I was coming in because I had something rather nasty (which I don't have) and that I need to do something (which I don't need to do and could actually be dangerous for me).

On phoning I was told "Oh, that's just the standard letter that everyone gets that comes into this department".

[Ocean1]

Most IT Projects are fucked because most IT managers report to Accountants who wouldn't know a critical project component if it fell out of a helicopter and landed on their cardigan wearing wife.

All true, for any project.

The only way to beat it is to sequester budget from maintenance or some other “fixed” overhead and do the business under cover.

I’ve done this so many times I used to get audited specifically to discover what new “hidden” capital assets the accountants had to drag back into the asset register that year.

Then they’d plug that source of funds and I’d have to find the budget for next years toys from somewhere else.

If you rely on the CFO to decide what’s important you’ll die debating parking allocation and office décor.

[Usarka]

Or get another exec to be the project sponsor and have them deal with the funding and budget/scope issues.

[Nasty]

Or get another exec to be the project sponsor and have them deal with the funding and budget/scope issues.

My CFO is currently the Sponsor . .you think its helping? You are funny. Nah always have a exec as the sponsor ... its the only way to keep it in front of the management boards .. it does not get around the budget issues when you have a sponsor who wishes to extend the scope outside of the budget though.

[James Deuce]

NOTHING to do with the VICTIM IT Company? Ppppfffttt..I see some IT person speaking from their side only.

You'd wonder why most projects are blown out of budget with little/no result and end up failing.

Nasty outlines:



+1

Did you read Nasty's post? Did you read mine?

I currently work for an IT company. I haven't always. I've run successful projects, I've worked in successful projects. People often call technology projects "IT" projects when they are no such thing. The Y2K project (that most people call a failure) was in fact the most successful project ever run. Clear outcomes and minimal problems - for those who bothered to pay attention. Barclay's Bank lost 2bn pounds in credit card transactions overnight because their credit card arm didn't change to a 4 digit year date field. Yeah. Nothing happened with the Y2K "bug". It wasn't a bug. It was identified as a problem 12 years before the fix was required. Most people added fixing it to their normal business years before they needed to.

The most sure fire way to ensure the failure of an "IT" project is to let it commence without involving any IT people. I'm in a support role now. 30% of my work in the last 2 years has been making a "finished" project work, so don't tell me I'm arse covering or don't know what I'm talking about.

Failed IT projects get reported as such by business managers who refused to fund or staff a project appropriately due to cost projections and then need a place to hang their failure. IT projects fail at commencement, not failed completion.

Tradesmen OTOH seem to be accorded mystical status. They suck. They have no customer service skills, are abusive, and take the piss with their charging. If you ring 18 plumbers and no one returns the first call, I'd call that something that I don't get.

[FROSTY]

Im using puter issues as examples but with such big fuckups at top level what chances do we stand

[Usarka]

My CFO is currently the Sponsor . .
If it's not a financial project then wrong sponsor! If it is a financial project then you have my symapthy.....

[Nasty]

If it's not a financial project then wrong sponsor! If it is a financial project then you have my symapthy.....


You are right ... its a financial project .. that is why the CFO ... thing is its a financial systems project .. even more fun! Why would the CFO be the sponsor if it was nothing to do with finance ..

[Nasty]

Did you read Nasty's post? Did you read mine?

I currently work for an IT company. I haven't always. I've run successful projects, I've worked in successful projects. People often call technology projects "IT" projects when they are no such thing. The Y2K project (that most people call a failure) was in fact the most successful project ever run. Clear outcomes and minimal problems - for those who bothered to pay attention. Barclay's Bank lost 2bn pounds in credit card transactions overnight because their credit card arm didn't change to a 4 digit year date field. Yeah. Nothing happened with the Y2K "bug". It wasn't a bug. It was identified as a problem 12 years before the fix was required. Most people added fixing it to their normal business years before they needed to.

The most sure fire way to ensure the failure of an "IT" project is to let it commence without involving any IT people. I'm in a support role now. 30% of my work in the last 2 years has been making a "finished" project work, so don't tell me I'm arse covering or don't know what I'm talking about.

Failed IT projects get reported as such by business managers who refused to fund or staff a project appropriately due to cost projections and then need a place to hang their failure. IT projects fail at commencement, not failed completion.

Tradesmen OTOH seem to be accorded mystical status. They suck. They have no customer service skills, are abusive, and take the piss with their charging. If you ring 18 plumbers and no one returns the first call, I'd call that something that I don't get.


I read your post .. and agreed ... :)

[rainman]

iam working on a site at taranaki

there are a 1000 of us working on site and we earn $3000 a week
out of that 1000 about 10 of us do any work

Got any vacancies? :)

[riffer]

James Deuce and Nasty talk a lot of sense. I work as an operations development manager for an IT company working primarily in the heritage sector (which involves both government and private clients), and have an opinion of this.

It seems to me that there's two big differences between my government and private clients.

1. Project sponsors in private have both the guts and the clout to make a decision regarding the project without interminable meetings.

2. They also have to answer for their actions for it too.

I shake my head at some of the clusterfucks masquerading as projects within the public sector. I don't know how you put up with the public sector Nasty. You're far too talented.

[mynameis]

Did you read Nasty's post? Did you read mine?

I currently work for an IT company. I haven't always. I've run successful projects, I've worked in successful projects. People often call technology projects "IT" projects when they are no such thing. The Y2K project (that most people call a failure) was in fact the most successful project ever run. Clear outcomes and minimal problems - for those who bothered to pay attention. Barclay's Bank lost 2bn pounds in credit card transactions overnight because their credit card arm didn't change to a 4 digit year date field. Yeah. Nothing happened with the Y2K "bug". It wasn't a bug. It was identified as a problem 12 years before the fix was required. Most people added fixing it to their normal business years before they needed to.

The most sure fire way to ensure the failure of an "IT" project is to let it commence without involving any IT people. I'm in a support role now. 30% of my work in the last 2 years has been making a "finished" project work, so don't tell me I'm arse covering or don't know what I'm talking about.

Failed IT projects get reported as such by business managers who refused to fund or staff a project appropriately due to cost projections and then need a place to hang their failure. IT projects fail at commencement, not failed completion.

Tradesmen OTOH seem to be accorded mystical status. They suck. They have no customer service skills, are abusive, and take the piss with their charging. If you ring 18 plumbers and no one returns the first call, I'd call that something that I don't get.

Certainly not "disagreeing" as such, however there is always two sides of a coin, which is what I am trying to highlight. As spoken right from the horses mouth below:


fuck ups
you want to see a fuck up
this is the biggest fuckup since dunkirk..
iam working on a site at taranaki

there are a 1000 of us working on site and we earn $3000 a week
out of that 1000 about 10 of us do any work
on top of that .. most of the stuff we are doing is rework
fixing other peoples fuckups
no wonder these think big projects cost so much
its a fucken JOKE

+1 Well put some projects really are a joke.

[riffer]

this might help to illustrate some of it... :mellow:

[kevfromcoro]

Got any vacancies? :)

yes sure the best i done was 5600 in 6 days

pm me. its money for jam

[Mikkel]

That's humans for you I am afraid. The good old latin proverb still holds true.

[mynameis]

this might help to illustrate some of it... :mellow:

More of a Management lesson init? Very true though.

[Timber020]

Plenty of failed projects due to IT people pushing products that
a) were never going to be suitable to existing systems or organisation
b) were never going to be affordable (but the IT guy gets nice kickbacks for all those addition features that will never be used)
c) were going to make the IT people the most money

Plenty of really ugly IT projects out there, often its the client who is lead down the merry path of failure and cost over run by the trusted hired "expert" who is happy to bleed the public sector for all its worth and then wash there hands of it once it gets messy.

At least thats what Im told by people in the industry. IT guys get paid to much to screw up and not be tied to there mistakes.