Bad Habits?

[vifferman]

No, not nuns with bad clerical fashion sense - this is summat else.
The thread about scraping toes (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=96570) got me thinking about this. Years ago, when I was riding with Zed (remember him?) he asked me why I rode with the balls of my feet on the 'pegs, so I told him it was better for good bike control. Of course, being Zed, and knowing everything yet never having read about this, he mocked me for it. He was one of those people whose justification was basically "I do it, therefore it's right!" This can be an attitude that sees us hold onto bad habits even though they may be potentially very dangerous.

So I got to thinking about this. Doubtless I have countless bad habits, but from a cursory examination, the only ones I can think of are these: since moving to D'Auckland, I follow too closely on the motorway, and I use only one or two fingers when <s>gesturing</s> braking. The latter works fine, but is arguably a potential weakness in an emergency.

What about you?

[Big Dave]

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[sondela]

From my experience doing emergency braking practice, I think two fingers on the brake lever will still get you stopped ok? The only thing that might go wrong is not throttling off if you still hang on to the throttle with the others..

I neglect the 2 second rule sometimes as well...sigh

[Paulo]

Saw a barefooted harley rider on the Wgtn motorway today, Must have loved the feel of the wind between his toes, Forgetting to wear boots could be called a bad habit.

[Okey Dokey]

That is an interesting example of a bad habit, vifferman. When I took up riding I found I naturally rode with the balls of my feet on the pegs. Then, when I did an advanced rider course, the instructors told me it was bad and to place the peg in the arch of my foot. I think they were arguing that it gave you instant access to the rear brake and gear shift.

So what do others do? I changed my habit after that course, but did I go from good to bad or bad to good?

[crazyv]

When doing the Basic handling course/test with John Wright (Auckland) - he taught us using four fingers for the brake and to wedge thumb finger and palm on throttle when riding. Giving maximum effectiveness in case one of the fingers slip, also for smoothness.

I know from a few vids seen on the racing circuit that almost all racer types use the two finger approach as its faster to do at high speeds. Even the California school of riding uses the two finger method of braking.

I have been riding for approx a year so will keep using four fingers - perhaps until I try a track day.

As for the foot, I place it on the Arch. Find this the easiest to control brake & clutch also I can move around the bike in this position.

[James Deuce]

When I took up riding I found I naturally rode with the balls of my feet on the pegs. Then, when I did an advanced rider course, the instructors told me it was bad and to place the peg in the arch of my foot. I think they were arguing that it gave you instant access to the rear brake and gear shift.

So what do others do? I changed my habit after that course, but did I go from good to bad or bad to good?

When you're riding around town, commuting, doing the shopping, just generally getting from a to b you're in a high threat zone (generally speaking) where you're more likely to be involved in a two vehicle accident. In this situation being able to use all the controls effectively with the delay of moving stuff around is generally a good thing.

Out in the country where you are practicing the precursor activity to your single vehicle cornering accident, you may want to move your feet back to your preferred position. I know if I didn't I'd be buying a new pair of boots once a month. Size 14 feet, country roads and approved riding techniques can be expensive. I've had instructors go all red in the face when I've tried to explain that particular point, as well as pointing out that they aren't the ones who will coughing up for the new boots on a more regular schedule than than I normally organise my crashing on.

The point is that there is an element of art in learning to ride bikes the way it suits you. There's plenty of people willing to say you're doing it wrong, masses of information to go through to glean different techniques and the reality is only you can figure out what suits you. That means practicing stuff and discarding things that don't work though. Critical theory in practice.

[James Deuce]

I know from a few vids seen on the racing circuit that almost all racer types use the two finger approach as its faster to do at high speeds. Even the California school of riding uses the two finger method of braking.

I have been riding for approx a year so will keep using four fingers - perhaps until I try a track day.


This is where track riding and road riding send mixed messages. Racers aren't using the brakes to stop. They are using it to control negative acceleration. There are racers that use the two outside fingers to brake, the two inside fingers, the index finger, three fingers or, indeed all four, but they aren't using them to stop. They are setting corner entry speed.

Another point to bear in mind is that modern braking systems, radial caliper mounts, radial master cylinders, minimal line expansion under pressure, pad and disc materials can mean that four finger stopping is simply too much leverage for general usage. That tends to apply to the very focused sportsbikes out there, not your average streetbike or tourer for instance, or especially a cruiser where weight distribution often means that the rear brake is just as effective as the front in many cases.

Four fingers will give you better feel and control on the road for stopping, though some people have far more practice with two fingers and so tend to use it all the time. That's fine though. Whatever works for the individual, so long as they can generate consistent braking force and control in all situations. There isn't one technique though. Practice stuff in a relatively isolated environment until you find what works for you.

[LBD]

I am a ball of my feet guy on the winding twisties mainly for clearance when cornering and I feel more in control like that. But then on straighter roads or where the action is not so intense, I sit with my arch on the peg, comfort and less strain on aging knees.

Brakes, definately two fingers, I even fitted a shorty synto brake lever to encourage this in myself after an unexpected stoppie in a panic situation that almost went to far over....рпфашт ыони car drivers. (Serious twin brembos)

[zzzbang]

been doing one/two finger braking since i was on my yz80.. works just fine for me.

[zzzbang]

рпфашт ыони

hah, enlighten us on the meaning?

[Trudes]

Having my arse firmly planted on my seat. While this is good for riding about in normal situations, I'm finding it hard to unstick my bum and move it off the seat while bucket racing. Trying to focus on my weight on my legs and on the pegs, but I find it hard to remember to shift my bum as well. I guess I'll get there eventually.:bye:

[Blackshear]

I dunno if it's a bad habit, as much as OCD or something..
But I blip the throttle 3 times whenever I clutch in at the lights/moving really slow.
I don't know why, but I suspect it must be me keeping the carbs on their toes. No sluggish throttle when I go to clutch in. Must check next time.

And the bad one...
Whenever in the 'mode' and going into a decline corner, I use the back brake whilst downshifting and decelerating a little with the engine braking. It's kinda fun to do it and hear the squeal, but I don't do it on purpose.
When i'm not going as hard, I don't clutch at all. It's weird.

[Hitcher]

Pegs on the balls of the feet FTW.

[AllanB]

Arches of feet on the pegs thanks - as in where the shifter and brake are instantly handy. I keep my balls in my pants. :devil2:


I have a habit of keeping my bikes immaculate - fucked if I can understand why people spend that much on a new ride and then let it turn into a visual piece of shit.

[zzzbang]

Arches of feet on the pegs thanks - as in where the shifter and brake are instantly handy. I keep my balls in my pants. :devil2:


I have a habit of keeping my bikes immaculate - fucked if I can understand why people spend that much on a new ride and then let it turn into a visual piece of shit.

well.. we have one thing in common, keeping bikes in perfect condition. everytime it rains or grime/bugs accumulate just have to go and wash the bike lol.

[LBD]

рпфашт ыони, very loosly translated means *&%^@! %) :angry2:^!@# and I think that is universal.

wot? you thought I can write Russian?...:oi-grr:


But now that you brought it up I might get my translater to typer up some choice phrases....:yes:

[Pwalo]

Balls of the feet on the pegs (short legs), two fingers for braking (L twins slow down pretty well on engine braking, and I can't keep my little pinkie bent around the grip), grip the tank to keep the weight off my shoulders/wrists, and clean the SV and my visor every night.

Simple, or perhaps simplistic. or perhaps OC.

[awayatc]

So I got to thinking about this. Doubtless I have countless bad habits, but from a cursory examination, the only ones I can think of are these:

If you want to get a complete list of your bad habits just ask your wife.....:no:

wives seem to be very good at that.....:laugh:

[vifferman]

From my experience doing emergency braking practice, I think two fingers on the brake lever will still get you stopped ok? The only thing that might go wrong is not throttling off if you still hang on to the throttle with the others..
Well, it does work for me. Throttle control is actually easier with two or three fingers available.


The instructors told me it was bad and to place the peg in the arch of my foot. I think they were arguing that it gave you instant access to the rear brake and gear shift.

So what do others do? I changed my habit after that course, but did I go from good to bad or bad to good?
It doesn't matter what others do - this isn't "Riding by Consensus".
As for the "instant access" issue - you still have instant access to throttle, brake and clutch. If you're riding defensively, in most instances you'll be aware of / anticipating hazards and there's HEAPS of time.



Four fingers will give you better feel and control on the road for stopping, though some people have far more practice with two fingers and so tend to use it all the time. That's fine though. Whatever works for the individual, so long as they can generate consistent braking force and control in all situations. There isn't one technique though. Practice stuff in a relatively isolated environment until you find what works for you.
There's an example of this in a thread in here somewhere, where I switched from my usual 1 or 2 finger braking to using four to bed new brake pads in.
Disaster....

... grip the tank to keep the weight off my shoulders/wrists
Oh.
There's another example of something I need to work at - and I bet summat LOTS of riders do: leaning on the handlebars. Too often I catch myself doing it, especially when tired.

If you want to get a complete list of your bad habits just ask your wife.....:no:

wives seem to be very good at that.....:laugh:
:laugh:

My original post was shorter than intended - my wife walked in when I was writing it, and one thing she hates is me posting on KB.

Another bad habit I have is riding the same routes when communtering, and getting into the habit of doing the same things. Like using parts of the Kombat Kommuter Kaos as a personal racetrack - not excessive or dangerous speed, just a bit fast. "Ooh! Nice curves, no traffic, just give it a bit of throttle..." That's how I got my last ticket.
You sort of get settled into a groove, which has the daanger of becoming a rut. It's easy to switch off a bit, and do things by rote, and not give your ride sufficient attention. It's how I wrote off my last VFR.
It wasn't my fault as such, technically or legally, but if I'd been just a little more alert, listened to the small voice inside my head, been a bit more cautious, instead of just boogeying along, I wouldn't have a pain in my leg that sometimes keeps me awake at night.

[Okey Dokey]

Thanks for the feedback on the balls vs arch query. I think the town vs country style of riding is pretty accurate. One size doesn't fit all, as per usual. Cheers! :niceone:

"Riding by Consensus"- I just wondered whether your example was good or bad, that's all.

[madbikeboy]

Hey Viff.

I'm a one finger braker. I rest my finger (the finger) on the brake. I can brake, and throttle to downshift/blip smoothly. Two fingers are overkill for a GSXR1000, and I can lock the front easily.

My bad habits.
Impatience with thick people. It's rude. Also, I help out too much. People begin to expect it, and when you stop, they think you're a c*nt. I drink straight from the moo juice container. I call milk, moo juice. I obsessively clean my bike. I give too much of a shit. I use the rotary propulsion modulator for bad sometimes. But it does save the tire wear, and we know tires and global warming are linked somehow, right? I assert my space, this is bad because car drivers love to hear stories about bikers eating pavement, and this goes some way to preventing that. I have zero tolerance for morons at BBQ's who start telling me about some bad experience with bikes. I tend to use sarcasm too much. I don't always lift the toilet seat. I walk the dogs on the beach regardless of the daylight savings thing. I have too many moments of excessive acceleration. And excession loss of traction too. I think bad thoughts when my girlfriend's mother is rude to waitresses, sometimes I open my mouth and tell her what I think about it. The bad habit bit is not speaking up sooner, or nicely. I hang out with people who wear dead cow. I spend too much time on KB. I have no life. :bleh:

[Mystic13]

I go for arches and pop to balls when things get tight. Leaned over tight I mean.

Bad habits would be;

- not keeping the weight off my wrists under hard braking. I just get a little lazy and my single ab is the worse for it.

- not checking the tyre pressure often enough. I believe I can feel a drop in pressure so I tend to go by that for letting me know it's time to check and fill up.

- riding around with knee pads that look brand new. I tend to keep my knee off the deck rather than touching down. Maybe I have a fear that the leg will be ripped off.

- Being envious of riders with no chicken strips on the front tyres.

- never wearing a seatbelt.

- sometimes not wearing all the gear. I promise next time I ride my sons skateboard that I will be fully kitted up.

[slofox]

Being too lazy to move my R foot forward to use the back brake...and use only the front and engine braking...unless the shit hits the fan in which case I just leap off and let the bike go where it will...while I bounce along the road on my head...which is empty anyway nowadays so no harm done...

Never cleaning the bike. My neighbour cleans and polishes his RG150 every weekend and parks it out the front for all to admire. I just go fanging around the countryside and come back all covered in bug splat the road spooge and all that. I always think I will clean it one day but that day hasn't arrived yet...it's a year old and looks about fifty...

Going riding instead of mowing the lawn, weeding the garden or doing any housework apart from laundry...no wonder my houses is full of spiders...

[vifferman]

I spend too much time on KB. I have no life. :bleh:
Oh yeah - those are tow bad habits I have too. :Oops:
I also care too much about things - I'm sure it prematurely ages you...

...my single ab ...
:blink:

:laugh:

sometimes not wearing all the gear. I promise next time I ride my sons skateboard that I will be fully kitted up.
:laugh:

...I just leap off and let the bike go where it will...while I bounce along the road on my head...which is empty anyway nowadays so no harm done...
:laugh:

Never cleaning the bike.
Yeah, I'm guilty of that too. :o

Going riding instead of mowing the lawn, weeding the garden or doing any housework apart from laundry...no wonder my houses is full of spiders...
No, sounds like you've got good priorities. My weekends are usually so full of chores and boring crap that going back to work on Monday is a relief...

[madbikeboy]

Okay, so we have a school of bad habits here. Viff, SF, cleaning the bike is good. This is what I do.

Imagine that moment when you get asked to do something you really don't want to do, like visiting the supermarket to pick up milk and whatever else...

"Oh, honey, I just pulled the stuff out so I can clean your car"...

Translated "Are you fucking kidding? Thank fuck I forget to bring the cleaning bucket in from last weekend"

So, the Alfafa gets the speedwash, madam is happy since she has a shiny gem again, and she disappears off to the supermarche.

An hour later, I'm still happily cleaning scoot with a nice new toothbrush that someone left carelessly sitting on the bathroom sink...

Cleaning the bike is the biker's equivalent of a pre-flight check.


EDIT - I need to spread it around before blinging you again Viff.

[Okey Dokey]

When my husband and I got our second bike, after sharing one and taking rides in turn, I found a bad habit. Not used to riding as a pair, I sometimes concentrated on keeping an even gap between the bikes rather than looking ahead through the corner as I was used to doing. For a brief while I had to "re-train" myself to look past or through him on our other bike to read the road.

Could have been caught out big time for silly inattention, but happily I realised what I was doing before it became a problem.

[Maha]

Arches of feet on the pegs thanks - as in where the shifter and brake are instantly handy. I keep my balls in my pants. :devil2:



I alternate, I use both options as Mystic13 stated.
As for bad habits? maybe getting to close to the centre on right handers? not so much now, I have (over the last while) been correcting that. Being behind someone who I consider one the most smoothest out there helped correct some of the thing I knew needed attending to. But yeah the feet get shifted when it tightens up.

[Mikkel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh3qZ2FlwSI&feature=related