HELP! Can anyone resleeve an 08 RMZ250 barrel this thursday?

[Atomic]

Long shot I know! But, trying to get my mates 08 RMZ250 back in action for the easter weekend, the Nikasil has worn off and is suffering from piston slap. Should have the parts wednesday/thursday morning but need someone to bore and fit the new cast iron sleeve so I can get the bike back together by friday morning (all nighter I think!). Or can anyone recommend who I can approach in the auckland area to carry out this work?

Other option is spending a FORTUNE on a replacement barrel.

[barty5]

Long shot I know! But, trying to get my mates 08 RMZ250 back in action for the easter weekend, the Nikasil has worn off and is suffering from piston slap. Should have the parts wednesday/thursday morning but need someone to bore and fit the new cast iron sleeve so I can get the bike back together by friday morning (all nighter I think!). Or can anyone recommend who I can approach in the auckland area to carry out this work?

Other option is spending a FORTUNE on a replacement barrel.

Try Gk Automotive 5705336
he is doing my pw80 tomorrow and may be able to fit it in
tell him Aaron from newmarket auto repairs recommened him think he live out west some place which may make getting it back easy.

[Buddy L]

How many hours has that said bike done??
any reason why the lining has gone so soon?

[telliman]

hahaha, buddys freaking..

[Buddy L]

How many times has your bike been appart telli?, mines still a minter.
ive put on 55 hours and have hear of suzukis not likeing it at around the 80 hour mark. ( full over hual on the heads needed)

[Robert Taylor]

Long shot I know! But, trying to get my mates 08 RMZ250 back in action for the easter weekend, the Nikasil has worn off and is suffering from piston slap. Should have the parts wednesday/thursday morning but need someone to bore and fit the new cast iron sleeve so I can get the bike back together by friday morning (all nighter I think!). Or can anyone recommend who I can approach in the auckland area to carry out this work?

Other option is spending a FORTUNE on a replacement barrel.

Resleeving will lose a lot of power over recoating because there is a LOT of port alignment work that needs to be done with a right angle miniature die grinder, measuring equipment and LOTS of hours by a skilled and very fussy operator. This usually does not happen because either the end customer is reluctant to pay for what the job is worth or there are plenty who will do a half job, which it undeniably would be. To do so properly would cost the same or more than a new cylinder. It devalues your bike also, I would certainly pay less for such a bike.
With recoating I recommend sending only to the most reputable companies in either the UK or the US.

[Robert Taylor]

How many times has your bike been appart telli?, mines still a minter.
ive put on 55 hours and have hear of suzukis not likeing it at around the 80 hour mark. ( full over hual on the heads needed)

3 PRE-REQUISITES;

High quality 2 stroke oil e.g Motul 800, high spec Elf. 40:1

Suitable octane level fuel that precludes detonation / inaudible detonation, which kills motors.

Very fussy airfilter maintenance.

[telliman]

3 PRE-REQUISITES;

High quality 2 stroke oil e.g Motul 800, high spec Elf. 40:1

Suitable octane level fuel that precludes detonation / inaudible detonation, which kills motors.

Very fussy airfilter maintenance.

wat fuel do you recomend for these four strokes, i run half and half of race gas and 91?

[Robert Taylor]

wat fuel do you recomend for these four strokes, i run half and half of race gas and 91?

Substitute the 91 component for 96

[telliman]

How many times has your bike been appart telli?, mines still a minter.
ive put on 55 hours and have hear of suzukis not likeing it at around the 80 hour mark. ( full over hual on the heads needed)

your right, mine went at 116 hours(04), new crank, new barrel, bearings, gaskets, just done valves, cost me $3000 already, only paid $4900, will go brand new nxt year if efi on 250fs.

[nonferrous]

Resleeving will lose a lot of power over recoating because there is a LOT of port alignment work that needs to be done with a right angle miniature die grinder, measuring equipment and LOTS of hours by a skilled and very fussy operator. This usually does not happen because either the end customer is reluctant to pay for what the job is worth or there are plenty who will do a half job, which it undeniably would be. To do so properly would cost the same or more than a new cylinder. It devalues your bike also, I would certainly pay less for such a bike.
With recoating I recommend sending only to the most reputable companies in either the UK or the US.
RT very much appreciate the advise - any idea why a less than 10 hour RMZ 250 would strip the linining

[Atomic]

Try Gk Automotive 5705336
he is doing my pw80 tomorrow and may be able to fit it in
tell him Aaron from newmarket auto repairs recommened him think he live out west some place which may make getting it back easy.

Thanks Barty, I was gonna ring him first thing tomorrow but I am now taking into account Robert Taylors advice....


How many hours has that said bike done??
any reason why the lining has gone so soon?

Its only done 10hours!
The mechanic who diagnosed the fault is blown away at why its shat itself and could only put it down to either a bad/faulty plating job from factory or something bad has gone through the oil.
On the upside, my 08RMZ has done around 70hours, is still running original engine, original spark plug even! and Im not as anal with maintenance as I should be (average quality synthetic oil, clean air filter and oil after every second ride, oil filter every few rides, 91 octane gas...) and yet it has never missed a beat, I cane it pretty hard too. Must be luck of the draw, you get a bad one or you get a good one!?



3 PRE-REQUISITES;

High quality 2 stroke oil e.g Motul 800, high spec Elf. 40:1

Suitable octane level fuel that precludes detonation / inaudible detonation, which kills motors.

Very fussy airfilter maintenance.

Can you confirm that you recommend running 2 stroke oil in a 4 stoke? Wet clutch and all?

Cheers for your advice.

[Taz]

Resleeving will lose a lot of power over recoating because there is a LOT of port alignment work that needs to be done with a right angle miniature die grinder, measuring equipment and LOTS of hours by a skilled and very fussy operator. This usually does not happen because either the end customer is reluctant to pay for what the job is worth or there are plenty who will do a half job, which it undeniably would be. To do so properly would cost the same or more than a new cylinder. It devalues your bike also, I would certainly pay less for such a bike.
With recoating I recommend sending only to the most reputable companies in either the UK or the US.

Reading the OP it seems the sleeve is going in a 4 stroke (RMZ) so matching the ports doesnt apply?

[Taz]

...........................
http://www.motoxparts.co.nz/motocrosspartsaccessories.php?category=99&brand=0&page=5&piece=1134

[Atomic]

Reading the OP it seems the sleeve is going in a 4 stroke (RMZ) so matching the ports doesnt apply?

Excuse my ignorance but 4 strokes still have intake and exhaust ports to match up...dont they???

[Taz]

Excuse my ignorance but 4 strokes still have intake and exhaust ports to match up...dont they???

No four stoke ports are in the head not in the barrel like a 2t

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks Barty, I was gonna ring him first thing tomorrow but I am now taking into account Robert Taylors advice....



Its only done 10hours!
The mechanic who diagnosed the fault is blown away at why its shat itself and could only put it down to either a bad/faulty plating job from factory or something bad has gone through the oil.
On the upside, my 08RMZ has done around 70hours, is still running original engine, original spark plug even! and Im not as anal with maintenance as I should be (average quality synthetic oil, clean air filter and oil after every second ride, oil filter every few rides, 91 octane gas...) and yet it has never missed a beat, I cane it pretty hard too. Must be luck of the draw, you get a bad one or you get a good one!?




Can you confirm that you recommend running 2 stroke oil in a 4 stoke? Wet clutch and all?

Cheers for your advice.

Sorry the phone was ringing, now I see the hasty misread.

[scott411]

ill pipe in here, i have not ever seen very good results from resleeving barryls that were origanally coated, they tend to cause problems,

have you priced a genuine barrell?, give me a pm tomorrow and ill see what i can do,

as for fuel advice, i use and reccomend 98 or at a bare minimum 95 in 250F's and 450's, and then 2 strokes in race trim i reccomend 50/50 Racegas and 95, however for trail riding 2 strokes 95 is fine if jetted for it,

[Robert Taylor]

No four stoke ports are in the head not in the barrel like a 2t

The problem with being distracted!! Suffice to say that is my advice re 2 stroke resleeving. When resleeving a ''minimalist'' 4 stroke cylinder there are also issues. The sleeve material doesnt expand at the same rate as the parent metal of the cylinder so the piston tolerancing has to be a little more ''generous'' That means more noise at low temps, more chance of bypass and oil consumption. Also you are negating one of the major advantages of coated cylinders, much more rapid heat transference. Ultimate power should be similiar and not as many downsides as resleeving a 2 stroke, in all fairness.

[Robert Taylor]

ill pipe in here, i have not ever seen very good results from resleeving barryls that were origanally coated, they tend to cause problems,

have you priced a genuine barrell?, give me a pm tomorrow and ill see what i can do,

as for fuel advice, i use and reccomend 98 or at a bare minimum 95 in 250F's and 450's, and then 2 strokes in race trim i reccomend 50/50 Racegas and 95, however for trail riding 2 strokes 95 is fine if jetted for it,

Good advice, Id definitely give Scott a call.

[Atomic]

No four stoke ports are in the head not in the barrel like a 2t

Oh hell! Of course!
I cant believe I said that!


ill pipe in here, i have not ever seen very good results from resleeving barryls that were origanally coated, they tend to cause problems,

have you priced a genuine barrell?, give me a pm tomorrow and ill see what i can do,

as for fuel advice, i use and reccomend 98 or at a bare minimum 95 in 250F's and 450's, and then 2 strokes in race trim i reccomend 50/50 Racegas and 95, however for trail riding 2 strokes 95 is fine if jetted for it,

Sending PM shortly. Thanks

[Buddy L]

Not liking the sound of this random dud barrel, my first few tanks of gas i put through my bike were my left over two stroke mix, Don't know if that helped with the running in or not, I also started the bike a hand full of times and let it idle up to running temp, and then let it cool right down between, all this before i even got a chance to ride the thing.

[kezzafish]

crikey. why'd you put 2 stroke fuel in it? also i never let rebuilt motors idle, have been told it can glaze bore and not allow good bedding in of rings. Can an expert confirm this for us?

[Atomic]

crikey. why'd you put 2 stroke fuel in it? also i never let rebuilt motors idle, have been told it can glaze bore and not allow good bedding in of rings. Can an expert confirm this for us?

When I had my GTR rebuilt the engine shop told me that they run fresh race engines in by "racing them"! I have heard rumours of guys running in MX engines by giving em shit and run it in how you intend on using the engine for the rest of its life. The factory Suzuki manual however contradicts this and recommends using 1/4 throttle for ex amount of time etc...

[camchain]

Any photos? That's a nasty sounding bore but I can't see adding a sleeve being a good option - boring for sleeve means you can't go back, different expansion/contraction rates with different materials, poor heat transfer, shorter life (notwithstanding current nicasil situation) plus can't see all the work required for a custom sleeve being much cheaper than a $600 replate? For me, 30 year old tech belongs on 30 year old machines.

Interesting RT suggests going with US-UK replaters. It's a high tech job though, and experience counts.

Edit: Seems I've repeated some points mentioned above. Was offline typing and watching TV while new posts added.

[barty5]

the biggest cost in putting in a sleeve is the tips when machineing break around $150 a tip due to the hardness of the coating normally a good 3-400 to sleeve. plus the sleeve

[cheese]

So the bike has only 10 hours and it fucked out? I'd be going to the shop with some legal advice on that. Even if a manufaturer only gives you 3 month warranty, 10 hours is nothing. Unless he damaged it by running no oil? Suzuki should at least be covering the cost of parts.

[Robert Taylor]

So the bike has only 10 hours and it fucked out? I'd be going to the shop with some legal advice on that. Even if a manufaturer only gives you 3 month warranty, 10 hours is nothing. Unless he damaged it by running no oil? Suzuki should at least be covering the cost of parts.

Competition bikes have no warranty and I think what you said is a big call given that there are so many variables in use beyond the control of the manufacturer.
10 hours is a longtime for other highly stressed components such as ( for example )the rear shock, a component that undergoes 17,000 compression cycles EVERY lap on a typical motox track.
We all want more and more performance but are not always so amenable to the trade offs in the need for much more and careful maintenance. Plus the need to run premium grade fuels and lubricants, and frankly some of the brands out there I wouldnt run in my weedeater.
That is not neccessarily to suggest that the fault is as a result of poor maintenance but it quite often seems that the manufacturer is the target to blame. Having been on that side of the fence I saw genuine claims but also many that tried it on.

[cheese]

I agree with you robert, but feel that if I was in this guys shoes with a 10 hour old bike that shit itself I'd be at the shop going ape shit and then some and getting legal advice.

[Reckless]

Bloody four strokes aye!!
Tellis bike cost him $4900 and he's spent 3k on it so far and an 08 with 10 hours on, has shit its barrell. Mind you the later could still happen to a 2smoker. Sorry guys I really don't mean to rub your noses in it but why do you think the factories are pushing 4 strokes? :whistle: Pollution my arse! it has to do with revenue streams for them and the dealer network, parts and labour. Four strokes make alot more commercial sense for the factories. And Robert seems to be saying there's no point having a go at the manufacturer after only 10 hours either? If its a genuine 10 hours (and you may even have got the shop to do the first service) I'd also be jumping on someones desk at the dealership when a 10k bike only does 10 hours, thats for sure!

Danger said his Ktm200 did 400 hours on a piston! I change mine at 100 hours (rings at 50) mostly because I think i should not because they need it most of the time. Sorry guys but you can keep your titanium valve's an head jobs.

[Robert Taylor]

Bloody four strokes aye!!
Tellis bike cost him $4900 and he's spent 3k on it so far and an 08 with 10 hours on, has shit its barrell. Mind you the later could still happen to a 2smoker. Sorry guys I really don't mean to rub your noses in it but why do you think the factories are pushing 4 strokes? :whistle: Pollution my arse! it has to do with revenue streams for them and the dealer network, parts and labour. Four strokes make alot more commercial sense for the factories. And Robert seems to be saying there's no point having a go at the manufacturer after only 10 hours either? If its a genuine 10 hours (and you may even have got the shop to do the first service) I'd also be jumping on someones desk at the dealership when a 10k bike only does 10 hours, thats for sure!

Danger said his Ktm200 did 400 hours on a piston! I change mine at 100 hours (rings at 50) mostly because I think i should not because they need it most of the time. Sorry guys but you can keep your titanium valve's an head jobs.


What I am actually saying is to be in command of your facts before jumping up and down, and to be 110% sure there are no conspiring factors that will hang you out to dry.

[Atomic]

Well thanks to everyones advice. Scott kindly sussed pricing and could of had a new barrel and parts available for me to bolt on tonight!!! however I have not been able to get the go ahead from my mate to spend over a grand in time and therefore missed the weekend deadline so will have to sort next week.

[Reckless]

What I am actually saying is to be in command of your facts before jumping up and down, and to be 110% sure there are no conspiring factors that will hang you out to dry.

Yep good advice as usual Rob!!! Same as the building industry they'll take any excuse to say "sorry not my fault you didn't do XXX right???" Haha ask Hardtext they are experts!!!

It was really a bit of a fun :Pokey: at the four stroke guys LOL!! We have this 2smoke vs 4 stroke thing goin aye Barty!!!!

[Rupe]

Bloody four strokes aye!!
Tellis bike cost him $4900 and he's spent 3k on it so far and an 08 with 10 hours on, has shit its barrell. Mind you the later could still happen to a 2smoker. Sorry guys I really don't mean to rub your noses in it but why do you think the factories are pushing 4 strokes? :whistle: Pollution my arse! it has to do with revenue streams for them and the dealer network, parts and labour. Four strokes make alot more commercial sense for the factories. And Robert seems to be saying there's no point having a go at the manufacturer after only 10 hours either? If its a genuine 10 hours (and you may even have got the shop to do the first service) I'd also be jumping on someones desk at the dealership when a 10k bike only does 10 hours, thats for sure!

Danger said his Ktm200 did 400 hours on a piston! I change mine at 100 hours (rings at 50) mostly because I think i should not because they need it most of the time. Sorry guys but you can keep your titanium valve's an head jobs.

doesn't seem a very helpful post rick. thought the the question was about re-sleaving not 4stroke vs 2stroke bullshit

[honda_power]

Bloody four strokes aye!!
Tellis bike cost him $4900 and he's spent 3k on it so far and an 08 with 10 hours on, has shit its barrell. Mind you the later could still happen to a 2smoker. Sorry guys I really don't mean to rub your noses in it but why do you think the factories are pushing 4 strokes? :whistle: Pollution my arse! it has to do with revenue streams for them and the dealer network, parts and labour. Four strokes make alot more commercial sense for the factories. And Robert seems to be saying there's no point having a go at the manufacturer after only 10 hours either? If its a genuine 10 hours (and you may even have got the shop to do the first service) I'd also be jumping on someones desk at the dealership when a 10k bike only does 10 hours, thats for sure!

Danger said his Ktm200 did 400 hours on a piston! I change mine at 100 hours (rings at 50) mostly because I think i should not because they need it most of the time. Sorry guys but you can keep your titanium valve's an head jobs.

Yeah, bought my bike a year ago for 5500 with 15hours on it, its cost me about 3g to keep running since then. but my old 2004 model cost me one $700 top end from early 05 to early 08, and did over 250 hours, so who knows. For the record im not a nana rider either :P

[Reckless]

haha got the bites I was expecting, just thought Barty wouldn't be able to resist! LOL!! but I guess he knew I was havin you'll on!! :bleh:

Still Honda_power 3g for a years running is still quite high mate! as long as the gearbox didn't shit itself I'd only expect a set of rings and then a piston kit for a 100 hours over a year about 5 hundred or so? With me doing the work of coarse. $700 fro 250 hours is ok though. I must say my mates four strokes are better at climbing in mud and sand though.

[browny]

Excuse my ignorance but 4 strokes still have intake and exhaust ports to match up...dont they???
the ports on a 4 stroke are in the head. resleeving a 4 wont affect them