NZ motorcycle media

[carver]

i have brought brit mags for a while because NZ motorcycle mags are so kind to every product they get their greasy hands on.
sure, im no journo, but i get sick of mags saying every Chinese POS is just fin, or has just a minor issue.

you would think old women made up the staff.

i know why this is, but there is no journalistic integrity to your readers.:angry2:

bring on the next mormon few test!

[Blatman]

Yeah, I find the quality of the writing quite amatuer. But I suppose there is only a relatively small pool of journos in NZ.

[Big Dave]

No talent clowns.

<tenchars> </tenchars>

[peasea]

Yeah, I find the quality of the writing quite amatuer. But I suppose there is only a relatively small pool of journos in NZ.

Well you do better, twat!

[Blackshear]

No talent clowns.

<tenchars> </tenchars>

:girlfight:

[peasea]

No talent clowns.

<tenchars> </tenchars>

You'd need a circus wouldn't you?

[Big Dave]

You'd need a circus wouldn't you?

'My Grandfather had a three ring circus - him and two other arseholes.' - Rude, Rodney c1982

[Motu]

No talent clowns.

<tenchars> </tenchars>

They can't ride either,totaly hopeless....

[Big Dave]

No idea what end of a camera to hold.

[peasea]

'My Grandfather had a three ring circus - him and two other arseholes.' - Rude, Rodney c1982



Big Dave died in a fire and his body was burned pretty badly.

The morgue needed someone to identify the body, so they sent for his two best friends, 'SARGE' and 'fire eyes'.

The three had always done everything together.

SARGE arrived first, and when the mortician pulled back the sheet,

SARGE said, 'Yup, his face is burned up pretty bad. You better roll him over.'

The mortician rolled him over and SARGE said, 'Nope, that ain't Big Dave ..'

The mortician thought this was rather strange.

So he brought fire eyes in to confirm the identity of the body.

fire eyes looked at the body and said, 'Yup, he's pretty well burnt up.

Roll him over.'

The mortician rolled him over and fire eyes said, 'No, it ain't Big Dave'

The mortician asked, 'How can you tell?'

fire eyes said, 'Well, Big Dave had two arseholes.'

'What? He had two arseholes?' asked the mortician.

'Yup, we never seen 'em, but everybody used to say:

'There goes Big Dave with them two arseholes.'

[Motu]

No idea what end of a camera to hold.

Short arse ugly fuckers.

[Conquiztador]

Short arse ugly fuckers.

Must be the inbreeding

[R6_kid]

Carver, I reckon your bike reviews, done a little more professionally/seriously would actually be pretty bloody good.

It's nice to be honest, but that doesn't always make money. You'd be surprised how many UK journos get a little bit extra from here an there to say that XYZ product is better than it actually is. I mean if you test rode a new bike model at the expense of a dealer/manufacturer would you go saying how shit you really though it was? Likeliness is that if you did that you wouldn't be getting invited back for next years product launch.

[Tone165]

Well you do better, twat!

Is this meant to discredit claims of amaturist journalism?????

Yeah...go on..do better twat!

It's not just a NZ issue either.

Im convinced that the journos are "told" which way to write their articles before they are given them. Then all the do is lazily tag a group of cliche together and churn it out.

Even the News gets a spin on it depending on the agenda of the moment.

That is of course when the news is actyually news, and not some elaborate advert for the next diet craze or credit card scheme.

Its us that buys it..so not much use complaining....just stop buying or reading those that disrespect you with half the info and manipulated figures and facts. Its not that hard to spot them!

[Conquiztador]

Is this meant to discredit claims of amaturist journalism?????

Yeah...go on..do better twat!

It's not just a NZ issue either.

Im convinced that the journos are "told" which way to write their articles before they are given them. Then all the do is lazily tag a group of cliche together and churn it out.

Even the News gets a spin on it depending on the agenda of the moment.

That is of course when the news is actyually news, and not some elaborate advert for the next diet craze or credit card scheme.

Its us that buys it..so not much use complaining....just stop buying or reading those that disrespect you with half the info and manipulated figures and facts. Its not that hard to spot them!

I just hate corrupted bike journos. But I could be convinced to change my mind for a bottle of JD...

[Big Dave]

>>Im convinced that the journos are "told" which way to write their articles before they are given them.<<

Nah - it's completely random.
Like Bowie writing a song pulling lines of type from a hat.

[Big Dave]

I just hate corrupted bike journos. But I could be convinced to change my mind for a bottle of JD...

'Those are my principles. If you don't like them - I have others.' - Groucho.

[James Deuce]

I buy bike mags for phone sex ads.

[davebullet]

I can't read so I buy them for the pictures... and I like "dirty" pictures, really "dirty" ones, like the kind you find in Dirt Rider

[marty]

You'd be surprised how many UK journos get a little bit extra from here an there to say that XYZ product is better than it actually is. I mean if you test rode a new bike model at the expense of a dealer/manufacturer would you go saying how shit you really though it was? Likeliness is that if you did that you wouldn't be getting invited back for next years product launch.

Case in point - Top Gear refused a factory Dodge Charger in the USA when they did the Bonneville episode - they had to buy one off the shelf.

[CookMySock]

It's nice to be honest, but that doesn't always make money.They are just running a business. I am amazed that anyone can make money printing stuff on paper and selling it in shops - for quality reading, google, youtube, etc al make any topic into easy entertainment for hours.

Steve

[Big Dave]

Here's how it works in a 'typical' publishing house. (they are all different)

Publisher.
It's his money. His business. Not 'necessarily' his opinions. Holds Full veto power.
(Getting a cover past a publisher is one of the great challenges of design.)

Editor.
Takes the Publisher's instruction and commissions the content to suit.
Good editors bleed for the integrity of their publication.

The Editor dispatches briefs to the writers and journalists, defines the house style, controls and edits the final copy. Dispatches the photographer, chooses the images.

Some publications have sub-editors.
Subs correct grammar and structure and enforce house styles without altering context.

(Some of what I say isn't what I said. Usually grammar, rarely context. Comes with the territory. Bank the cheque, htfu)

Advertising.
Without it there is no production budget. Some sales managers are dicks who try and control editorial and design with bluster, some are team players. Successful titles - better teams.

Journalist/writer.
Takes a brief from the editor. Sometimes that will include 'the Angle' - sometimes it doesn't and the writer has to find one.

Sometimes a writer will produce something on spec or make a contribution and the Editor accepts or declines - or edits to suit.


Personally.
The way I approach it is 'If I was interested in this vehicle - what would I like to know about it' and I try and impart that information in as informative and amusing way as possible within the constraints of the brief.

I haven't had a vehicle worth slating and I won't do the 'My GN is shit for track days' act. Everything I have tested has been fit for purpose and has suited someone.

Mormons.
I think they have talent. Cinematography is real good and they are producing a style of entertainment popular in their generation.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect the moment they put their real names and addresses on the kind of stuff that they will need to do if they want to go 'mainstream' - then it won't be very long before the litigation will start.
Harley come after people for trade mark violations. 'Urinal' they might take exception to if it's published with an address.

Top Gear has BBC lawyers, KB's the Mormon beak?

[Big Dave]

To see this story with its related links on the guardian.co.uk site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/23/mediamonkey

Read Giles Coren's letter to Times subs
Wednesday July 23 2008
guardian.co.uk


Chaps,

I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony, who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.

I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you that fucked up my review on saturday.

It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with him into the weekend.

I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of ros? and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."

It appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of ros? and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."

There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".

Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.
1) 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.

2) I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?

3) And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck.

I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is.

It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me.

I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job.

And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy.

Right,
Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose.
All the best
Giles

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited 2008

If you have any questions about this email, please contact the guardian.co.uk user help desk: userhelp@guardian.co.uk.

[Morcs]

The brit mags are top notch. Especially PB.

NZ mags have new bike reviews and stuff -which are easier findable in other forms via google.

PB have rad stuff, like modding and wheelies and stuff.

[mikeey01]

Once a bike mags cuts back on content and puts more ads in I give up and stop buying it!

I grabbed a local bike mag at the supermarket the other day, took a quick glance at it, yep same over 50% ads and put it back.
I'll support any mag that puts good stuff in and less ads....

Sorry I don't wear the "it helps keep costs down" line!

[Ixion]

I like the ads. They're useful

[Big Dave]

Sorry I don't wear the "it helps keep costs down" line!

Doesn't keep costs down - it keeps the doors open.

[Marknz]

I buy bike mags for phone sex ads.

So that's why I'm always getting an engaged signal...

:laugh:

[pritch]

Once a bike mags cuts back on content and puts more ads in I give up and stop buying it!

I grabbed a local bike mag at the supermarket the other day, took a quick glance at it, yep same over 50% ads and put it back.
I'll support any mag that puts good stuff in and less ads....

Sorry I don't wear the "it helps keep costs down" line!

OK even after allowing for the fact that some of the people will be enthusiasts, the mag isn't a charity. The mag has to be able to pay the bills and the staff need to eat.

I have bought a US mag just to get the ads.

When BIKE went to the launch of the Ducati 1098 they were impressed.
When they took a 1098 to the track they were impressed again.
When they finally got one to test on the road they thought there were problems, and said so. Ducati withdrew their advertising.

Manufacturers do try to bully magazines if they can and some mags will play safe. I leave those mags in the shop for other people to read.

[Bonez]

It's good getting them when the outlets dispose of them a month later. Just look at the pics of the bikes. Not reallly interested in what the models are wearing.

[Big Dave]

come on down:

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/contribute.html

[Bonez]

come on down:

http://www.kiwirider.co.nz/contribute.htmlYou seem to glean enough off the site anyway Dave. ;)

You're absolutely right every make and model has a purpose.

[Okey Dokey]

I subscribe to a one NZ bike mag and pick up the occasional PB (Brit) I like the NZ mag for the ride reports, events & rallies, and not just the bike reviews. I generally read every word in it over the course of a month. Then I keep it in a pile with the others and sometimes go back to look at something I read earlier. i think it is neat that there are dirt bikes, sport bikes, cruisers and tourers all mixed up together. Not so sure about the scooters.... :shifty:

PB is very entertaining and funny in its style. I generally don't read the whole issue because the tech stuff doesn't interest me. My bike is plenty fast standard, I don't need more!

So it is horses for courses; NZ is a small market and bike mags probably need to be for a general audience to stay afloat. I think they are good value for money.

[Big Dave]

You seem to glean enough off the site anyway Dave. ;)

One mans glean is another's share.

[Bonez]

One mans glean is another's share.As long as you wear protection though.

[mikeey01]

OK even after allowing for the fact that some of the people will be enthusiasts, the mag isn't a charity. The mag has to be able to pay the bills and the staff need to eat.

Do you believe that?
Ha, another Tui ad for their marketing dept.

Tell ya what, go look at the Publishers parent company and take a look at their annual reports. I'm sure you'll see those huge profits and dividends paid like I did...
The ads pay the bills, fark me that's crap!
Ya don't make a fortune 500 company for just covering costs!

I understand any business, even a magazine has to make a profit, but then there's greed.
Me I'm sick of those pages and pages full of ads, hence why I said “I gave up on any mag that fills its pages with over 50% ads”.
Just to cover costs, yeah right!

Don't get me wrong, some ads I like but to full a mag with over 50% of it's content (that many) I'm over it!

Edit: Now this may be different for NZ mags to overseas mags, un-fair of me as I was looking at overseas mags. I'd say the NZ mags need the ad dollars the most, just to survive.

[Ixion]

One mans glean is another's share.

It's the publishing equivalent of the the theatre's "open in Wigan"

[Big Dave]

It's the publishing equivalent of the the theatre's "open in Wigan"

Get clogs on.

Random gives me the 'why don't you just google it'. I say 'I could - but I'd rather start a discussion'. For a number of reasons.

Gleanage...I guess sometimes. Not really the intent. Usually know the answer before I ask. Extensive library. PhD in google.

Mostly I like the different perspectives that can come up.

[Bonez]

Get clogs on.

Random gives me the 'why don't you just google it'. I asy 'I could - but I'd rather start a discussion'. For a number of reasons.

Gleaning...I guess sometimes. Mostly I know the answer before I ask. Extensive library. PhD in google.Hey it makes sense to use all available resources.

How about a "Carvers Corner". Could be an amusing read.

[tri boy]

The local mags like KR and Bike etc do a bloody good job displaying whats available to the NZ riding fraternity.
If people wish to read about 300hp wop it up ya street bikes, then the world is full of such mags/articles/forums.
I prefer to live on NZ time.
Keeping the interest alive in NZ is what it's about.MHO

I'm sure Carver is quite able to write about riding in arseless chaps, while licking the pimply back of shit wiper on a hot summers night.
But who cares:yawn:

[AllanB]

Shit Carver I presumed you got the Brit mags for the boobs.

One big issue with the Brit magazines I notice is that unless it is a top spec sports bike they tend to rubbish it - this Road King is shit for stunting........

No disrespect intended, but you'd find it near on impossible to get your recent review of the 1125 Buell published anywhere but the internet.

And I'd say that if you were a published scribe and experienced a Buell that was that bad, you'd call the supplier who would promptly wizz around with a replacement bike to set up for you. This happened with Cycle World when reviewing one of the Buells (can't recall which) when they had some issues - ended up with 3 bikes if I remember!

I mentioned your KB review as an example only, as a 'proper' reviewer finding the issues you stated with suspension set-up would have made adjustments in a attempt to sort them out. Plus one hour in the seat is not a review - it's a brief spin giving you a first impression - good or bad.

This is why motorcycle reviewers have the bike for some days.

By all accounts keep up your entertaining work - I'd personally like you to have your own talk-back hour on the radio in the evening when the kids are in bed - it would be a good laugh. :clap:

[SARGE]

Big Dave died in a fire and his body was burned pretty badly.

The morgue needed someone to identify the body, so they sent for his two best friends, 'SARGE' and 'fire eyes'.

'There goes Big Dave with them two arseholes.'

i wear my ASSHOLE badge proudly.. took alot of work to get this damn good at it ..


you should see me in traffic :gob:

[Bonez]

By all accounts keep up your entertaining work - I'd personally like you to have your own talk-back hour on the radio in the evening when the kids are in bed - it would be a good laugh. :clap:I second that idea.

Those who agree say ey, those the disagree nah..................

Eys have it.

Motion carried.

Next item on the agenda is...........................

[pritch]

Ya don't make a fortune 500 company for just covering costs!

KiwiRider is a Fortune 500 company?

Shit oh dear, I'll have to give it more respect...

[carver]

Mormons.
I think they have talent. Cinematography is real good and they are producing a style of entertainment popular in their generation.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect the moment they put their real names and addresses on the kind of stuff that they will need to do if they want to go 'mainstream' - then it won't be very long before the litigation will start.
Harley come after people for trade mark violations. 'Urinal' they might take exception to if it's published with an address.

Top Gear has BBC lawyers, KB's the Mormon beak?

hmmmm, yes, we don not want to disclose who we are, were pretty secretive for that reason.

thanks on the comments on our filming, yes, we are very much aimed at our generation, but our demo-graph is the 30-50 year old men!
i dont think much of my stuff to be honest, i want so much better, but resources are so limited-for now


Hey it makes sense to use all available resources.

How about a "Carvers Corner". Could be an amusing read.

I think legal issues could arise after showing nude wheelies past schools.



I'm sure Carver is quite able to write about riding in arseless chaps, while licking the pimply back of shit wiper on a hot summers night.
But who cares:yawn:

You will be reminded of these words very soon.


Shit Carver I presumed you got the Brit mags for the boobs.

One big issue with the Brit magazines I notice is that unless it is a top spec sports bike they tend to rubbish it - this Road King is shit for stunting........

No disrespect intended, but you'd find it near on impossible to get your recent review of the 1125 Buell published anywhere but the internet.

And I'd say that if you were a published scribe and experienced a Buell that was that bad, you'd call the supplier who would promptly wizz around with a replacement bike to set up for you. This happened with Cycle World when reviewing one of the Buells (can't recall which) when they had some issues - ended up with 3 bikes if I remember!

I mentioned your KB review as an example only, as a 'proper' reviewer finding the issues you stated with suspension set-up would have made adjustments in a attempt to sort them out. Plus one hour in the seat is not a review - it's a brief spin giving you a first impression - good or bad.

This is why motorcycle reviewers have the bike for some days.

By all accounts keep up your entertaining work - I'd personally like you to have your own talk-back hour on the radio in the evening when the kids are in bed - it would be a good laugh. :clap:

haha, thank you, i just like being rude, causing arguments, and stirring up trouble, thats the truth.
but the buell was shit, i just said it in a very harsh way.

i know my style does not appeal to everyone, but thats what i like!

[elevenhundred]

A while ago I was a regular reader of an NZ bike mag, during that time I went on holiday to Oz and whilst there decided to pick up a copy of an Oz bike magazine.
Imagine my surprise when I found that a lot of the articles were the same and even the tech section where readers can write in to asking for help was identical. The names of the readers writing in was the same too except in the NZ mag the readers city and state details had been removed.

[AllanB]

A while ago I was a regular reader of an NZ bike mag, during that time I went on holiday to Oz and whilst there decided to pick up a copy of an Oz bike magazine.
Imagine my surprise when I found that a lot of the articles were the same and even the tech section where readers can write in to asking for help was identical. The names of the readers writing in was the same too except in the NZ mag the readers city and state details had been removed.

WTF - do tell, which one?

[Kiwi Graham]

Dont go knocking what we have, how about supporting it, buying it or subscribing to it!!
Everybody has to start somewhere, even the brit mags had first copies once and I bet they wern't the glossy examples we see now.
If anyone out there thinks they can do better, submit an example of your work to them and who knows we could all be reading your words soon!

The brit mags have just as many ads in them but then they do have more pages to put them in. They have alot more money so can pay more for free lance journo's and employ higher caliber staff writers. Dont forget they have a huge readership potential compaired to us and they charge a higher price for their product.

I'll continue to buy Kiwi mags and occasioanlly a brit one. Plus a mate of mine buys every mag he can lay his hands on and I get to read almost everything printed to do with bikes anyway.

[Motu]

I don't know what magazines I read,they all have the label cut out.....

I have a problem,I've had it since I was about 5 years old - I am a compulsive reader,and it appears to be transfered genetically too as all my kids are afflicted as well.It doesn't matter what it is - if I see printed words,I have to read them...anywhere,anytime.I have read a lot of stuff in my life because of this,from comics to classics,from science,to science fiction,repair manuals to motorcycle magazines.

I don't think I will be able to over come my compulsive reading - but I must say,it's been very educational.

[carver]

Dont go knocking what we have, how about supporting it, buying it or subscribing to it!!
Everybody has to start somewhere, even the brit mags had first copies once and I bet they wern't the glossy examples we see now.
If anyone out there thinks they can do better, submit an example of your work to them and who knows we could all be reading your words soon!

The brit mags have just as many ads in them but then they do have more pages to put them in. They have alot more money so can pay more for free lance journo's and employ higher caliber staff writers. Dont forget they have a huge readership potential compaired to us and they charge a higher price for their product.

I'll continue to buy Kiwi mags and occasioanlly a brit one. Plus a mate of mine buys every mag he can lay his hands on and I get to read almost everything printed to do with bikes anyway.

like i said, i understand why it is, small country, small market

[Grant`]

I do find the NZ mags good for covering local events around the country and also upcoming events to go to.

[Ixion]

..- I am a compulsive reader,and it appears to be transfered genetically too as all my kids are afflicted as well.It doesn't matter what it is - if I see printed words,I have to read them...anywhere,anytime....

Gets a bit desperate sitting reading the toilet roll wrappers in the public dunny, but

[McJim]

i have brought brit mags for a while because NZ motorcycle mags are so kind to every product they get their greasy hands on.
sure, im no journo, but i get sick of mags saying every Chinese POS is just fin, or has just a minor issue.

you would think old women made up the staff.

i know why this is, but there is no journalistic integrity to your readers.:angry2:

bring on the next mormon few test!

Why? You just say that everything is shit so it would be the same but in reverse.

And none of the Chinese scoots are from Finland.

[Conquiztador]

And none of the Chinese scoots are from Finland.

Before there was 50cc scooters there was Mopeds. This was big in Finland in the 60's and 70's.
- There was no foot chages or autoclutches. We had a 2 or 3 gear shift on the handlebars (the left handle was a twist grip).
- There was no kick start. There was a set of pedals that we would use (like on a pushbike) to start the motor. These also functioned as footpegs. And rearbrake.

One of the strongest (and best to modify/get to hum) was the Finnish Tunturi (means Mountain in Finnish) moped. They were made to do 40k/h. We used to scare them up to 100k/h.

Change the sprockets, cut skirt of piston, file down the head, stroke by fitting a offset crank pin for the conrod, bore up intake, fit a motorbike carbie, cut/change header pipe, and many other small things that was "high tech" (like the filling of the piston with cork!).

The Tunturi used to take all that and keep running. Faster. Oegland and Zundap was also available. But when we tried the same stuff with them something always gave up.

Wonder what a chink scooter would do if I tried this on them? Can just imagine...

[Brian d marge]

I buy bike mags for phone sex ads.

We used to get phone cards for emergencies ....I have spent hours talking to those young ladies ,,,,, and she never did her sister in the shower , she was always dropping the soap

Stephen

PS the British performance magazines are crap as well , sometimes , they are ok with explanations on data-logging , tyres etc ,,, but the bike tests .... waste of money

[carver]

Why? You just say that everything is shit so it would be the same but in reverse.

And none of the Chinese scoots are from Finland.

not true, im just more critical.
anything i have written on the ER6n will be full of praise

[carver]

another thing im critical on is service, and some shops like Hamilton honda and Boyd's suzuki shine

where as the rest are pretty below par