Damp roads, cheap tyres and fire extinguishers

[Mikkel]

Today, as I was heading through town, I witnessed a car (older Honda civic) getting into a slight sliding over-steer on a fairly sharp right hand corner and then over-correcting going off the road to the left hitting a garden wall ending up facing in the direction it came. I pulled over to check that the driver was unhurt and to see if there was anything that needed doing. Thankfully she was quite alright, if a little bit shaken up - which is of course quite understandable given the situation.

Nothing much to do besides just talking to her making sure she was alright. Car had been roughed up quite significantly, would be a write-off for sure given age and model. There was a bit of light smoke coming from under the bonnet - luckily it came to nothing - and a very slow leak of coolant. Bonnet was jammed so there was no way to get in there to disconnect the battery. No fire extinguisher at hand either, which could have been a problem if the smoke had developed into a proper fire.

Anyway, I couldn't help but check the brand of the rear tyres - Hero. She couldn't have been going much more than 30 km/h when she lost grip at the rear, the road was damp and there wasn't any leaves or spills in the lane itself. Ironically I had been following her a couple of cars back and was feeling a bit annoyed at going so slowly through there... Decent tyres are worth the premium, especially in the wet.

Also, it's a very good idea to have a fire extinguisher handy - even better to have two: A CO2 for minor stuff and a powder one for back up on more serious stuff (powder will make a right mess of anything, so unless you never plan on using the vehicle again use CO2). I think I shall buy a couple on my way home tonight, not having one is stupid - with my background it's even more silly.

[James Deuce]

I think the EU have made it a requirement to carry a fire extinguisher in a vehicle. I think NZ should too.

[Disco Dan]

I have one sitting in the garage not doing anything.. going spare.

Would love to keep it in the car - but so big it wont actually fit in the boot. It's a big industrial one - about 3 foot high.

[vifferman]

I used to have one in the car - a freebie I got when the lab I worked at upgraded them. I used it one day on the Arthur's Pass road; some dodgy-looking individual was sitting beside a smoking Falcoon in a rest area. When I investigated, there appeared to be a rag burning on the engine mount below the fuel bowl. :eek:
I put out the wee conflagration, and away I went. Strangely, the guy didn't seem to care that the car was burning, and didn't seem at all thankful for my help. <_<
When I returned hours later, the car was burnt out.

Very suspicious....

[Squiggles]

Was she hot?

[Mikkel]

Was she hot?

Dunno, I didn't ask. It's been a cold day in Chch - although she seemed a bit flustered when I approached her.

[James Deuce]

Dunno, I didn't ask. It's been a cold day in Chch - although she seemed a bit flustered when I approached her.

You wouldn't know a hot one if you fell over one. Your Crown Prince married a Taswegian for goodness sake!:argh:

[sinfull]

I have no where to store one on my bike !

[Mikkel]

You wouldn't know a hot one if you fell over one. Your Crown Prince married a Taswegian for goodness sake!:argh:

As with the trampoline - you haven't got the faintest clue mate :)

Denmark is hopelessly old fashioned in some ways, we still have the monarchy and a state-sanctioned church. Off with their heads is all I can say!

[lb99]

, I couldn't help but check the brand of the rear tyres - Hero.

I have some on the rear of my falcon, they were really cheap $68 wholesale or something, ok they are not the best (cheap, Indian), but heres the thing, I'm not going to toot on about my falcon, its a big heavy six, but you have to try if you want to break it out in the rain, I tend to drive quite fast (not a nutter but briskly) so sometimes I have to brake hard, and I cannot recal locking the rear either, I actually rate these tyres better that the budget firestones I had before, time will tell if they last the distance.

both my ute and my wifes car have fire extinguishers and first aid kits.

[McJim]

I just sold my big heavy 4.0 Litre 6 cylinder Falcon. There was a particular corner on the way to work where the back end would break free in the wet (off camber tight right hander through triffic lights) I remember watching this lightweight japanese car following me through the junction trying to keep up. The back end of the Falcon stepped out and I corrected, straightening the car without needing to slow down. Fella behind me lost it completely and spun 180 degrees and was left facing the oncoming traffic.

I laughed a bit that morning.

[lb99]

I just sold my big heavy 4.0 Litre 6 cylinder Falcon. There was a particular corner on the way to work where the back end would break free in the wet (off camber tight right hander through triffic lights) I remember watching this lightweight japanese car following me through the junction trying to keep up. The back end of the Falcon stepped out and I corrected, straightening the car without needing to slow down. Fella behind me lost it completely and spun 180 degrees and was left facing the oncoming traffic.

I laughed a bit that morning.

It's the biker in us, after keeping a powerful bike under control in the rain, a car is a piece of piss.
Its not the tyres, its how the driver reacts.
I love my shitty old falcon

[Okey Dokey]

I've got a fire extinguisher under my drivers seat in my '89 Honda Civic.

I read an awful story a few years ago of men getting badly burned trying to save a driver whose legs were trapped under the dash of her burning car. They couldn't get her free and had to retreat with severe injuries themselves as she perished.

Having a fire extinguisher would have made such a difference. I'm glad I have one in my car, but don't know about having one on my bike...

[lb99]

if you have a fire extinguisher in your car ffs fix it to the floor, its the last thing you want flying around inside if you tip it over (that or your toolbox)

[Mikkel]

It's the biker in us, after keeping a powerful bike under control in the rain, a car is a piece of piss.
Its not the tyres, its how the driver reacts.
I love my shitty old falcon

Be that the case or not. She wasn't going fast enough that she should be having any trouble with grip. If those tyres let go at that speed in those conditions there's something wrong - it might come down to driver competence and suspension, but it is most likely the tyres.

My verdict stands, saving on tyres could be detrimental to your health.

[lb99]

Be that the case or not. She wasn't going fast enough that she should be having any trouble with grip. If those tyres let go at that speed in those conditions there's something wrong - it might come down to driver competence and suspension, but it is most likely the tyres.

My verdict stands, saving on tyres could be detrimental to your health.

the over correcting wasnt the tyres fault.
although if it was as slow as you say, then something was up for sure.
I stand by my tyres, theyre rubber, and have a good tread depth, and dry the road out as they go along, water is the reccomended lubricant for rubber.
Good on you for stopping to help.

[Motu]

I doubt if it was the tyres - I used to sell Hero tyres and rate them better than budget NZ made tyres like Enduro or Kelly.What was the tread depth - this is far more important.I used to sell Sunny tyres too - they were a really cheap Chinese tyre.They are a great tyre,I still have a set on the Lada,they are hardly worn and grip very well.

Lucky the Honda didn't explode into a fireball after the crash like in the movies eh? I've seen that happen plenty of times.....in the movies.

[Little Miss Trouble]

I have some on the rear of my falcon, they were really cheap $68 wholesale or something, ok they are not the best (cheap, Indian), but heres the thing, I'm not going to toot on about my falcon, its a big heavy six, but you have to try if you want to break it out in the rain, I tend to drive quite fast (not a nutter but briskly) so sometimes I have to brake hard, and I cannot recal locking the rear either, I actually rate these tyres better that the budget firestones I had before, time will tell if they last the distance.

both my ute and my wifes car have fire extinguishers and first aid kits.

Really? I thought them falcons spun up and stepped out pretty easily in the wet :devil2: Or so I've been told...:innocent::whistle:

[Mikkel]

the over correcting wasnt the tyres fault.
although if it was as slow as you say, then something was up for sure.
I stand by my tyres, theyre rubber, and have a good tread depth, and dry the road out as they go along, water is the reccomended lubricant for rubber.

As I said, she shouldn't have had to correct, much less over-correct, at all given the speed at which she was travelling.

Thread depth was adequate, not all rubbers are equal - otherwise it shouldn't matter who provided the slicks in racing. After all, no-tread is no-tread...


I doubt if it was the tyres - I used to sell Hero tyres and rate them better than budget NZ made tyres like Enduro or Kelly.

I wasn't comparing the Hero's to Enduro or Kelly - I only stated that investing in proper premium (e.g. Bridgestone, Goodyear, Dunlop, Firestone, Michelin, etc.) is not necessarily a waste of your money. (For the record I am running Bridgestone RE001s and I sincerely believe I could have gone through that curve, in those conditions, at twice her speed without being even close to the limit of their grip.)

[u4ea]

Call it a blonde moment .......PIRELLI:eek:

[Mikkel]

Call it a blonde moment

Other end of the scale I'm afraid.

[gammaguy]

reminds me of something that happened to me.

my Z has a turbo,and they get hot,specially when im in a hurry to get home.

one day after a quick trip i decided to check the transmission fluid level,as the manual says to check the level with the transmission hot,idling in neutral.

so its the old"dipstick in,dipstick out"routine.trouble is a few drips of fluid went onto the still hot and spinning turbocharger,which for some reason is DIRECTLY below the dipstick hole on the trans.(great design,Nissan-san:stupid:)

result,very predictable-trans fluid is flammable on hot turbos apparently(id say week old dishwater would be,the temp that they get up to:eek:)

anyway,long story short,if i didnt have my extiguisher at hand,the car would have been a pile of ashes in no time.:no:

i would never be without one in the car,sadly i have no space for one on any of my bikes

[Mikkel]

anyway,long story short,if i didnt have my extiguisher at hand,the car would have been a pile of ashes in no time.:no:

A Z300 I suppose?

Exactly how far above the normal oil level were you? I mean, it would have to be a substatial oil drop onto your turbo to ensure a complete melt down of engine and all. As far as I know, a normal dipstick doesn't carry that much gunk upon retraction... :no:

[lb99]

Really? I thought them falcons spun up and stepped out pretty easily in the wet :devil2: Or so I've been told...:innocent::whistle:

oh, they do, but like any properly driven car, they still have to be provoked, its not random....

[lb99]

lost it completely and spun 180 degrees and was left facing the oncoming traffic.



hahaha I did that in an old rwd sprinter, only on top of that it was night on a dodgy corner, I stalled in the spin and the keys dropped out of the ignition and into the door pocket, took about 30s to get my shit togeather, once I was sorted and pointed in the right direction, a cop came around the bend, :whew:

oh and that car had flash bridgestones on it.

[Okey Dokey]

if you have a fire extinguisher in your car ffs fix it to the floor, its the last thing you want flying around inside if you tip it over (that or your toolbox)

I thought that would be pretty obvious ffs; mine is in a holder bolted to the floor.

[gammaguy]

A Z300 I suppose?

Exactly how far above the normal oil level were you? I mean, it would have to be a substatial oil drop onto your turbo to ensure a complete melt down of engine and all. As far as I know, a normal dipstick doesn't carry that much gunk upon retraction... :no:

the dipstick was full i.e. the level was correct.i doubt if it was more than a teaspoon full that hit the turbo.that was all it took and the flames were licking around the nice plastic and rubber bits of the wiring loom and hoses.she would have burned for sure:doctor:

yup,its a 1984 Z31 300 ZX:niceone:

[Motu]

I wasn't comparing the Hero's to Enduro or Kelly - I only stated that investing in proper premium (e.g. Bridgestone, Goodyear, Dunlop, Firestone, Michelin, etc.) is not necessarily a waste of your money.

Investing in premium tyres for an old Civic (year and model please,2004 may be old to some people) would be a total waste of money.Hero's would be a far better tyre than what was fitted to the vehicle when new,and road conditions would most likely be an improvement too.Hero are Federal's budget brand,most likely made in the same factory that makes Federal tyres.

I brake test a dozen cars a day,wet and dry.Sometimes it's hard to get a good reading as the tyres don't grip - but I've never been able to narrow it down to any brands,only to tread depth and suspension.

There were many other factors involved in this crash,to ignore them and focus on tyre brand alone as the cause sounds like a narrow minded vendetta to me.

[lb99]

I thought that would be pretty obvious ffs; mine is in a holder bolted to the floor.

obvious to normal people like you and me for sure, but you would be blown away by the crap some people have rolling around on the floor

[peasea]

I think the EU have made it a requirement to carry a fire extinguisher in a vehicle. I think NZ should too.

Not a dumb idea. I spent a couple of years rebuilding a (IMHO) very cool Fairlane and it never went anywhere without a f/e coz I didn't want it going up in flames after all that work. Dunno why I don't carry one in the current automobiles but that's food for thought. Even if you don't use it to save your own arse you might save somebody else's.

Good call.

[Mikkel]

There were many other factors involved in this crash,to ignore them and focus on tyre brand alone as the cause sounds like a narrow minded vendetta to me.

Bugger, someone figured me out. All of this was only to take a cheap shot at Hero tyres. I hate those tyres, with a passion. After all they are my main competitors... :weird: (for the dimwitted, this is sarcasm)

As for year - early 90s late 80s - model: Civic (not the hatchback). Personally I buy tyres like my life depended upon them - because it does.

[Motu]

Waste your money then.But to push an old Civic to spinning out on a damp road with good tread Hero's would need some bad driving indeed....or totally rooted suspension....tyre pressures high or low.But it's NOT the tyres.If it was a bike you'd be complaining about a diesel spill,or slick tar,gravel....any excuse but the tyres.See a car spin out and it has to be the brand of tyre? Duh.

[Mikkel]

Waste your money then.But to push an old Civic to spinning out on a damp road with good tread Hero's would need some bad driving indeed....or totally rooted suspension....tyre pressures high or low.But it's NOT the tyres.

Seems you have a vested interest here. Funny how much you seem to know about this particular accident without even being there.
Regardless, I never said that the tyres caused her to spin out - but you can hardly argue that if you loose grip it happens where the rubber meets the road. As such, tyres will always play a role if you loose grip. The suspension could be rooted, she might not be a good driver (probably close to "average" like the majority of the other clowns out there), maybe the tyre pressures were out - I don't know and neither do you. Likewise the tyres could be shit - I don't know but you might - but being a cheap obscure brand I sure as hell wouldn't rule out the possibility that having had other tyres might have saved her from writing off her car.


If it was a bike you'd be complaining about a diesel spill,or slick tar,gravel....any excuse but the tyres.See a car spin out and it has to be the brand of tyre? Duh.

You assume much but know very little on this subject.

[Kickaha]

I doubt if it was the tyres - I used to sell Hero tyres and rate them better than budget NZ made tyres like Enduro or Kelly.What was the tread depth - this is far more important.I used to sell Sunny tyres too - they were a really cheap Chinese tyre.They are a great tyre,I still have a set on the Lada,they are hardly worn and grip very well.


Cheap tyres fullfil a particular segment of the market but personally there isn't a Chinese brand tyre made that I'd fit to my wheel barrow, although now most of the major manufactuers have plants there, some of the latest Ford range come out on Chinese made Goodyears



I wasn't comparing the Hero's to Enduro or Kelly - I only stated that investing in proper premium (e.g. Bridgestone, Goodyear, Dunlop, Firestone, Michelin, etc.) is not necessarily a waste of your money. (For the record I am running Bridgestone RE001s and I sincerely believe I could have gone through that curve, in those conditions, at twice her speed without being even close to the limit of their grip.)

There is a huge difference between a cheap tyre and a premium tyre but 99% of the time it wont show unless you're in an emergencey situtation or pushing the limits


Call it a blonde moment .......PIRELLI:eek:

Pirelli make some cheap rubbish to as does every manufactuer




I brake test a dozen cars a day,wet and dry.Sometimes it's hard to get a good reading as the tyres don't grip - but I've never been able to narrow it down to any brands,only to tread depth and suspension.


In tyre testing I have been involved in the difference on a dry track at 70kmh was consistently 1 metre difference in stopping distance between a cheap tyre and a premium tyre from the same manufactuer, the premium tyre also gave far better feedback as to when it would lock

In a wet test around a corner the differences were even more, with the cheap tyre understeering off the track with no chance of recovering it, the midrange tyre would under steer then recover and the premium tyre just drove around the corner with no understeer at all

I wouldn't any of the cheap tyres or budget range to any vehicle I ever own

[Motu]

Pirelli make some cheap rubbish to as does every manufactuer

I wouldn't any of the cheap tyres or budget range to any vehicle I ever own

Every tyre manufacturer does a budget range,but don't brand them as such.Hankook does Kingstar,Federal Hero,Continental uses Barum as a low cost brand,and also has Sime for an Asian brand.

You must come and try out my Lada with the Sunny tyres some time,the handling is,um...beyond belief,and you can push the tyres well past their limit.Horses for courses - the Sunny tyres are far better than the original Russian ones,and far more capable of taking anything the Lada can dish out.Budget tyres on a budget car - a perfect match.To take advantage of superior tyres would require an upgrade in suspension and brakes,and that is not what I require for this vehicle...what the Russians had in mind suits my purposes perfectly.