Road racing future; Superbike/600 Privateers.......and Production Naked bike Class.

[Triple R]

Hi all, Red here.

I don't hardly ever get a chance to write/read on these forums, just too busy. But thought over the next few days, put down some thoughts and aims I would like to bring to our road race scene. This is a slightly long post, so please read it all.

Firstly, congrads to Ed, Sloan, Rhys etc on putting in a great effort during the Nationals. You guys were a real credit to yourselfs and to road racing in general. Well done.

Also, I hope you enjoy Robbies bike Ed. I took out our suspension settings/parts etc, was not too keen to pass those on to you yet...lol....but the settings/parts that I put in, I would hope would be a good base line to start with for you.
( I would possibly be quite keen on buying the bike back when you are done.......the one with the carbon fibre covers on the frame, swingarm etc. That is the bike Robbie has won 2 titles on. So it would be nice to get it back one day and have set up in my show room. Let me know maybe.)

As well, the rest of the bike is basically exactly how Robbie had it. So it is a good bike, and pretty quick.......!!!

As some of you may have heard. I have been trying to put together a Privateer's class within both Superbikes and 600's.

The aim of this, is to give the people who don't have the full support of the factories etc and are not at the sharp end of the field, to be racing for something worth while, even if they are not at the front of the pack. This way I am hoping that, everyone feels that they are move involved with in the race, and have something else to aim for and achieve, there by feeling that the money and effort they are putting in, is worth while........plus they are having fun and enjoying the challenge.

What is a Privateer......??.........Ok, well in my eyes, this is someone not getting full factory backing, who owns their bike, or is riding a privately owned bike of someone elses.
They can receive dealer support and have good sponsors who help pay for product etc But, as long as they are not getting full factory support, then I would regard them as Privateers.

From what I see so far, we have 6 Factory Superbikes and 4 Factory 600's........this sound about right??

The aim is to have proper Championship cups for 1st, 2nd & 3rd place. I also would like to work on seeing if I could get more support from product suppliers, for top 3 place getters, to receive a set of tyres, or race chains (like has happened) Oils, maybe ferry vouchers for return trips, or what ever.
Basically things that help privateers race in the class and that are usefull to help them achieve this. This would be after every round.

This is for both Superbikes and 600's class.

Thoughts please.......????

Production Naked Bikes...........

Ok, I feel there is a bit of a gap between the F3/Pro Twins class and the 600/Superbike Class.
So, I reckon, something along the lines of a Production Naked Bike class would fill the gap.

Reason on Naked bikes.........well, there are a heap of different makes and models, which I feel could bring a different dimension to road racing.
I DO NOT want to take riders out of the 600's or Superbikes, but I am hoping, that maybe some of the "Older" riders, would come back and play and also some of the younger riders would look at this class, before moving up to SBK/600's.

Plus, also attract naked bike owners (and I am talking about the naked bikes.......not naked owners...!!!!!:lol:.....) to also come and try out our sport.

Rules........bikes have to be Production Naked Bikes.......so no GSXR's etc turned into a naked, Bikes from the factory with bars, not clip ons.

Also the engine size would be from 675cc and upwards.
2 sets of prodie tyres (same as what is used in the 600 class), that will be marked, and are for qualifing and the 3 races.
Exhaust......Muffler and pipe back to the collector (so that catalyic converters can also be removed) allowed......no full race systems.
Power Commanders or similar piggy back systems allowed. No race ECU's.
After Market Air Filter.

That is all you can do to the engine. No compression adjustment, no cam adjustment, nothing.......!!

Suspension.
Rear shock is open to what ever you want to run.
Front suspension.......Standard outer/inner stanchions, but springs, oil, valving/shims can be changed. But no cartridge kits etc.
Steering damper is open.

Then just the usual changes, like braided lines, brake pads, rear sets, crash bungs. You can also change the bars to stronger bars like Pro Tapers etc.

The only type of fairing you can run, is what ever the bike came with standard.......of course after market copies are fine, as long as they are exact replicas of the original fairing.

Ok, I would be keen on hearing back on this proposal too. And if you all think that it could work.
My main aim here with this class, is to attract people to come and ride at the Nationals, have fun in a class that is not too serious, but uses big bikes (A B-King anyone...????).....and that brings a slightly different dimension to the feild.

So, let me know your thoughts on all the above please.
Sorry about how long this is. I do have more ideas, thoughts to throw at you all, but best I do it on other posts, otherwise, this may turn into a novel.....!!!

Thanks eveyone.

Cheers,
Red.

[ktm]

Sounds good to me, like the naked bike idea.

[Tony.OK]

Some good food for thought in there Red.



How about making a heap more top bikes so more of us can have a chance to buy one:laugh:

[KS34]

Sounds great, I'd love to see a Gixxer 750 cup here in NZ. Pipe, air filter and fairings and you have a great class:first:

[sinfull]

Ya got me on the naked bikes (old ? Yes ! Stubborn ? Deffinately !) soon put the bars back on !
I'm currently emailing shops to see what deal i could get for mine as a trade for an F2 bike as i am gonna get in the way in F1, but i don't wanna sell the bloody thing ! But do want to race !
Has anyone floated the idea of a power to weight allowance for say a bears bike in F2 ? Cause thats where my 1050 is competitive !

[Quasievil]

hi Triple R

mate dont take this the wrong way, but who are you dude lol

All sounds great but can you intro yourself a tad for us please ?

Cheers and awesome post !

[Robert Taylor]

hi Triple R

mate dont take this the wrong way, but who are you dude lol

All sounds great but can you intro yourself a tad for us please ?

Cheers and awesome post !

Team owner that Runs Robbie Bugden, James Smith And Dennis Charlett. And yes an excellent post and content.

[Sonykid]

Love the idea of a Naked Production Bike class. Being a KTM Superduke owner who is in my first seasons racing in Clubmans and already on the cusp of being too fast it would give me somewhere to go other than F1, in which I would, like Sinfull, be too slow and maybe even a danger to the Superbike boys. I think the Naked Bike bit makes it wide enough to get a really interesting range of entries like a bears feild but with Jappers too. The fact that no bike will have an aerodynamic advantage should ensure good close racing.
I am in........Please.

[GIXser]

Hi Red, Ed here..first of all thank you for your post.
I havent met you ..probably have seen you though somewhere during the nationals... so hopefully meet again soon!
As far as the bike.. took it out the first time last week at puke... a lot more grunt than my old bike ever had.. far better handling even though the suspension felt a little off.. (just turn one at puke) so much so the rear started delaminating.. could be a number of things i guess, suspension, tyre pressures etc.. will try again this saturday, with another set of tyres and do some testing.. Thank you for your notes attached to the bike.. (i did ask some people around the traps.. and Tom at suzuki if you were a reputable person... and all came back with glowing positive responses) dont mind me.. it was only because i hadnt met you.and really dont know much about you. and im a sceptic at the best of times:) and sorry for being such a dimwit... but your skills go far beyong what i had realized.. again.. im a dimwit!!

anyways.. im hoping we can establish some relationship, that works well for both of us.

Sloan and i will both be doing the winter series,, and then nationals this year we want to do this bigger and better than anyone has ever before.. so lets hope it all comes to fruition

i really like the idea of the privateer class and think it has a lot of merit..

hope to meet you soon Red..

Cheers

Ed

[sosman]

How about Gsxr750 with slip on mufflers(maybe suspension too!) in the f2 class,there are some 6hundy's that still pull away from my 7friddy on the back straights...

[Danger Dave]

I like the idea of both the naked bike class and the production race classes

[KS34]

If we could get enough 750's in F1 we could do away with 600's cross entering. Sosman we could start our own and just polish the cup on alternate months!:laugh:

[MVnut]

Great ideas Red, the Naked Bike Class would be my favourite. (although I would rather have standard suspension I realise the safety angle) Hope this happens, should be good for the Sport:niceone:

[CHOPPA]

Great ideas Red!! Will be easy to put them all in place when you start your new job as road race commissioner.... :Pokey:

[sinfull]

And with ideas like that ya got my vote !

[Robert Taylor]

Hi Red, Ed here..first of all thank you for your post.
I havent met you ..probably have seen you though somewhere during the nationals... so hopefully meet again soon!
As far as the bike.. took it out the first time last week at puke... a lot more grunt than my old bike ever had.. far better handling even though the suspension felt a little off.. (just turn one at puke) so much so the rear started delaminating.. could be a number of things i guess, suspension, tyre pressures etc.. will try again this saturday, with another set of tyres and do some testing.. Thank you for your notes attached to the bike.. (i did ask some people around the traps.. and Tom at suzuki if you were a reputable person... and all came back with glowing positive responses) dont mind me.. it was only because i hadnt met you.and really dont know much about you. and im a sceptic at the best of times:) and sorry for being such a dimwit... but your skills go far beyong what i had realized.. again.. im a dimwit!!

anyways.. im hoping we can establish some relationship, that works well for both of us.

Sloan and i will both be doing the winter series,, and then nationals this year we want to do this bigger and better than anyone has ever before.. so lets hope it all comes to fruition

i really like the idea of the privateer class and think it has a lot of merit..

hope to meet you soon Red..

Cheers

Ed

Eddie, we supplied and set the suspension for Robbie and Andrew, It sounds like its a little undersprung for you as Robbie is a little bit smaller and lighter than you. If it needs a firmer spring we will happily swap it for you during the winter series on reciept of a good coffee.
Red is soon to be our South Island Ohlins road race agent and will do a great job.

[JJ58]

A great idea, however a point to ponder: We have a good production class now, why not support that rather than create more dilution amoung classes and talent?

I raced in Canada last year with ex factory SB and Pro (my true definition)600 riders on SV650's....Why not encourage more talent into the proddy class we have? If it works well then start another proddy class up, like the KTM or R1 class in the UK or what you're mentioning.

Imagine what it would do for the growing talent if they were lining up on the grid with riders like Charlett, McEwen, Rees, Hepurn, Tall, Love, Anderson, Shiriffs (Kris), Smart, Bridge, Bernard, Cole, Bowell etc It made me focus more and improve strategy and race craft to a point that when I got a ride on a factory prepped GSXR1000 I didn't embarrase myself.

There's no advantage in racing a naked +675cc bike over a pro twin bike from a rider development perspective.

Actually another point: This forum is just full of users who treat opinion as fact, you're a very smart guy Red, so you do what you feel would work and I'm sure it'll work. What ever gets more bums on seats is what I'll support, I just ask that you don't over look pro Twins with haste.

[KS34]

on reciept of a good coffee.

Now I could help here Robert! Give Ed the springs and I'll give you the coffee! By the way how many flat whites would it take me to get some RT massaged suspension

[Maido]

I am in the 600 class, and in regards to the privateer class inside the current 600 class, I think it would be great. I have often said that something else inside the championship would be good to give us mid packers something to chase. Especially cos most of us can't have factory backing.
Were your thought about the privateer to have the bikes that same spec as the factory bikes? I believe that they should be, so we can chase that carrot as well.
I personally think that you have done a whole lot of good for our sport here in NZ, the JB memorial event was awesome, pity it didn't take off! Also, by you bringing Robbie over, your team has certainly lifted the level, which I think all racers will agree is a great thing. Your team looks and acts professional and gives everyone something to benchmark. Full credit.
Hopefully you can get this type of thing off the ground, I know I will back it 100%.

Jeremy

[Wingnut]

Imagine what it would do for the growing talent if they were lining up on the grid with riders like Charlett, McEwen, Rees, Hepurn, Tall, Love, Anderson, Shiriffs (Kris), Smart, Bridge, Bernard, Cole, Bowell etc


They would be wouldn't they?

Is he not suggesting that the privateers are run in the same class as the big boys? A championship within an existing Championship?

I have heard this suggested before. I recall Brads ranting on about something similar.

As you say - Anything that gets the grid filled up has to be good. I hope that something actually happens soon - as the last Nats was slightly light on the grid in certain classes.

I will buy a 600 and have a go if there is a privateer class to run in.:first:

[DEATH_INC.]

How about Gsxr750 with slip on mufflers(maybe suspension too!) in the f2 class,there are some 6hundy's that still pull away from my 7friddy on the back straights...

Lol, try it on my old dinosaur.....

I've said before, I like the idea of a naked class, but the rules would need to be carefully thought out so ya don't end up with something like the new Honda predator coming in and dominating the class....mebbe only allow steel frames or something.....dunno, but it would be cool to have a class where you don't NEED a new model to be competitive......( $$$$$$ )
Good idea for the privateer class too, maybe prizes should include free entry in to the next upcoming race, that way you encourage the rider to get to the next meeting.

[Patch]

hi Triple R

mate dont take this the wrong way, but who are you dude lol

All sounds great but can you intro yourself a tad for us please ?

Cheers and awesome post !
Red (as he is more commonly known) aka Mr. P. Fenton (http://www.triple-r-superbike.co.nz/The%20Team/Peter%20Fenton%20(Red).php) another former Wellingtonian :niceone:

[White trash]

Red, great to see you posting on KB. This site has gradually enticed some of the most knowledgable in NZ Road racing over the past couple of years and can only be richer from your own opinion being added.

Personaly, I think the Privateer championship within the current SP and NZSBK championship is an immediate winner. It costs nothing to implement and will do nothing but entice club racers to try their hands at a full championship.

The Naked Bike Class absolutely rocks. Something I'd be very interested in competeing in myself. The only concern I have is I believe our tiny racing population is already over saturated with vary classes and one more will only dilute what we've already got. What do you think?

That being said, how exactly does one go about instating a new road race class?

[Rob Taylor]

Hey Jimmy you are so right.Too many classes already..Here i go again...There is already a class up in running ,in the south island that doesnt get much track time in the North.BEARS....Just go to the Mothers MC event and see how many riders...Why not try and sort the classes we already have rather than think of another....It cant be all Jap biased you know,Give us non Jap riders a chance......

[HDTboy]

So, let me know your thoughts on all the above please.
Sorry about how long this is. I do have more ideas, thoughts to throw at you all, but best I do it on other posts, otherwise, this may turn into a novel.....!!!

Thanks eveyone.

Cheers,
Red.
WHile having a privateer championship would help. I think the bigger problem facing the sport is getting the public's interest. Once the public are interested in coming to watch motorcycle racing, it will be easier to attract the sorts of sponsors who are willing to spend $200'000 pa on a V8 touring car or speedway sprintcar.


Were your thought about the privateer to have the bikes that same spec as the factory bikes? I believe that they should be, so we can chase that carrot as well.
Perhaps allowing the privateers more in the way of modifications (cams are cheap horsepower) would get them racing closer to the front of the field.


Good idea for the privateer class too, maybe prizes should include free entry in to the next upcoming race, that way you encourage the rider to get to the next meeting.
That's not silly, dangling the carrot

The Naked Bike Class absolutely rocks. Something I'd be very interested in competeing in myself. The only concern I have is I believe our tiny racing population is already over saturated with vary classes and one more will only dilute what we've already got. What do you think?
Naked bikes appeal to a different sort of person to fully faired bikes. Imagine having all the post classic racers on their bandit road bikes. Would be better than watching them on their 200 year old 25cc two strokes.

[sinfull]

Your team is obviously at the top and still your thinking of the sport in generals growth and good on ya ! Kudos to ya !

Can see the naked thing getting ugly real quick unfortunately !
I'd be keen as catshit on it, for the simple fact it gives me a class to enter without spending another 10 to 15 grand (on top of what it owes me now) in purchasing another bike !

The biggest thing which everyone is agreeing on, is getting bums on seats on and off the track ! Which IMO needs close, exciting racing for both riders and spectators to make happen and not just at the top in SB !
Sure The Nats this year had some exciting racing going on in all the classes but with the top 3 or 4 out of How many ? How to get them numbers up ?

Ya see so many riders at trackdays that could move up to fill that feild but don't, why ?
Insurance has to factor into it sure, but why would them guys and gals on them thous bother !
Only difference is the start grid, they can race around at trackdays and get some close racing going on and still be insured !
What would get joe blogs who's at the top of his track day game to move into competition ?
Not the fact that he's going to run at the back of the field, because he still lacks a little race craft thats for sure !

He would move up because his mates have ! The guys that he's been chasing, passing, slapping each other on the back, laughing with at trackdays !

The privateers idea would deffinately get a few more into it through and thats a start !

Me i'm at the bottom (no anal jokes) of the race sceen at clubmans level, but do ok at trackdays ! I've forgone the insurance thing, because i've tasted a grid start or three and the adrenylin that comes with it !
All i want, is to race against guys in my league, i don't care what they're riding, a thou, a 600, a bears, motard or a posties !

Ya see a hell of a lot of trackdayers enter racing at clubmans level but as soon as they reach the cut off point they dissapear right ?
Why ?
Possibly a number of things but here's a couple !
A/ bike don't cut it in the classes (2 out of the top 5 in sundays clubmans race are bears ! Sure they fit into F1 but would be getting lapped in a long race and that does/can have an effect on top placings if 3 or 4 bikes are tight at the front ! Even dangerous perhaps !
B/ Trackday times (step 1) clubmans (step 2) F1,2,3 (step 3 ?)
Is there a step missing in the race game, that would let guys progress to times that would make them competitive in the classes ?
We all know that it's time on the track that makes you competitive !
We all know that you cant cater for all the classes on race day, there's just not enough time !

Has anyone floated the idea of a bracket race series, like they do at SOT ?
Could be a great feeder for all the classes.
It would open the door to racing for anybody, no matter what bike they ride and natural progression would happen, where guys/gals who have a bike that was competitive in the classes (or upgrade to progress) would say fuck my times are getting good enough to have a go at the nats !

How many riders who do SOT, scream that there aint enough bears racing in the north or south for that matter !
There's a few bums ! And thier mates are usually bums too (who just happen to like motorcycles and would prolly come and watch a bracket race where their mate has a show of beating the jappas he's bracketed with)

I'm rambling now !
Happy easter !
Where's my eggs bitch !

[Tony.OK]

B/ Trackday times (step 1) clubmans (step 2) F1,2,3 (step 3 ?)
Is there a step missing in the race game, that would let guys progress to times that would make them competitive in the classes ?


Step 3 is as simple as "money and time and importantly the drive to be better" the way I see it Bill.
Doesn't matter which class, you've proved that yourself with the hours you spent on track, it paid off too.
Its one thing that no matter how you rearrange classes or change rules will always be the same in motor racing.
To practise costs money, to improve takes practise, then you reach the limits on your machine.................then you either spend more money to improve machine or get left behind....................viscious cycle but a reality.

Sorry I ate all the eggs I brought for ya too:drool:

[roogazza]

Has it ever been mentioned on these types of threads, the idea of bringing back prize money ?
I mean that would help wouldn't it ? A sash is nice, but a few bob in the pocket was always welcome.
ps. just an idea. Gaz.

[sinfull]

Step 3 is as simple as "money and time and importantly the drive to be better" the way I see it Bill.
Doesn't matter which class, you've proved that yourself with the hours you spent on track, it paid off too.
Its one thing that no matter how you rearrange classes or change rules will always be the same in motor racing.
To practise costs money, to improve takes practise, then you reach the limits on your machine.................then you either spend more money to improve machine or get left behind....................viscious cycle but a reality.

Sorry I ate all the eggs I brought for ya too:drool:
Yeah was fun !
So unless i can come up with 20 k ya wont see me racing at the nats !
Hell mate unless i can come up with a good trade for me old trumpy ya prolly see me go back to just doin trackdays ! Shame that !
What red was floating with the naked thing is to find a way to get more bums into racing !
Like Rob said the numbers that show up at SOT tells ya something aye
There has to be some way to intergrate the two, without saying i need to buy a $40,000 bears bike to be competitive !
But how do ya get bears racing aginst jappas ? Guys on bandits racing against bears ? Like HTD said there'd be a lot of them out there, a lot !
A power to wieght class ? Or like i said bracket racing ? Or is there no way ?

[Tony.OK]

Yeah was fun !
So unless i can come up with 20 k ya wont see me racing at the nats !
Hell mate unless i can come up with a good trade for me old trumpy ya prolly see me go back to just doin trackdays ! Shame that !
What red was floating with the naked thing is to find a way to get more bums into racing !
Like Rob said the numbers that show up at SOT tells ya something aye
There has to be some way to intergrate the two, without saying i need to buy a $40,000 bears bike to be competitive !
But how do ya get bears racing aginst jappas ? Guys on bandits racing against bears ? Like HTD said there'd be a lot of them out there, a lot !
A power to wieght class ? Or like i said bracket racing ? Or is there no way ?

I like you, believe the classes within classes would be a great idea, so easy with electronic timing. It would all be dependant on field sizes though.
RT has said many times before, and he's quite right, that unfortunately NZ is just too small to accomodate everyones needs.
Surely it comes down to 'choice' in the end though, what you want out of the sport? There's nothing at all stopping Bears racing against Jappa's, except people choosing not to, the fact is that Jappa's are cheaper for the same equipment than a comparaitve Bear's bike.
But hey, I can't afford my chosen class either so am in the same boat as you, don't take any of what I said the wrong way either dude.

On a side note..........whats to stop someone from organising seperate meetings for stuff like Bears racing, buckets do well running on their own. Maybe we are at a point where another parallel series is in order?

[Shaun P]

I think the most important thing at this stage is to establish rider reps for the N.I and S.I as a point of contact to relay ideas to MNZ etc as it seems alot of good ideas get floated around but nothing ever comes of them because they are not directed through the relevant channels.

[discotex]

Ya see so many riders at trackdays that could move up to fill that feild but don't, why ?

I'm not quite at that level yet but I aspire to be after a few more track days.

The things that will stop me from stepping up to racing are:

- Lack of a fun, safe track close to home (that might just be my perception of Puke having not been there but there you go). Hampton Downs will change that.

- The idea of mixing it up with random bikes in Clubmans doesn't appeal at all. That seems like a trackday with a winner to me.

- Even if I entered clubmans it's then a big jump up to a full noise racing class in F2. From what I understand F3 means buying a 20 year old 400 which hardly appeals after track time on a modern supersport.

- Resale value when moving up classes seems unreliable. Especially if classes change.

- Having no idea of how competitive I'd be. Given timing at trackdays is a no-no it's rather hard to know when you're lapping fast enough to go racing without resorting to stealth timing. Even knowing what to aim for would be good.

- Cost - Being able to afford the bike in the first place is one thing but keeping it on the track for the season is daunting. Even having examples of costs on the table would be great so you can make an informed decision.


I seriously think getting a manufacturer backed production class is the way to go.

Get un-prepped bikes at (near) cost in return for the advertising. Make it a turn-key deal for those who want to give it a go. Get a control tyre at a contracted price for the season in return for splashing their name everywhere.

Get a class wide sponsor to help reduce the costs for everyone. Then everyone at least has one sponsor before finding more. The sponsor will *always* be on the podium regardless of the field. Even better make it an insurance company :lol:

Race the same model over several years to keep the costs down or at least de-restrict the older models to keep them competitive. Then those who move up to F1/F2 have a strong resale value of their bike.

A class like that for bikes would push all my buttons :cool:


Why not model GT3 Cup and MINI Challenge? They seem to be doing very well in the car world.

[slowpoke]

Goodonya Red, you've run a great series of campaigns over the last few years and now that I know you are still involved with Robbie in Oz I'll definitely be watching a bit closer. As sad as it seems you are probably the only Kiwi representation over there this year. To have such a stepping stone on our door step (check out the ex-convicts on the world stage) and have none of our best and brightest over there bangin' bars seems such a wasted opportunity....have a go ya mug's!

Back to your original post. The privateers cup is a no-brainer and makes obvious sense, someone with influence needs to push this and push it hard.

My fear with the Naked bike series is further dilution of our existing classes. I also wonder at the skill benefits of racing these bikes. Will racing a spongy pud (most of 'em are a compromise at best) help develop the skills to step up to a pure sports bike? Will it also becomes another exercise in racing the latest and greatest with the machine becoming redundant after 2 years? But I also love the old muscle bike era so there is definitely some appeal there......

For all those folk thinking their bike isn't gonna be competitive after the step up from Clubman's (or into Clubman's): just fuggin' do it! The biggest limiting factor is the rider, at entry level, not the machine. Besides a Speed Triple, or Tuono, or 916/996/998 or early 'blade, R1, Gixxer, ZX9 etc is easily a match for an F2 bike and that's who mostly makes up F1. Some of those bikes are cheap as fuggin' chips and represent a cheap way to get on track, with parts also being next to nix. You could damn near buy 2 early R1's for the price of a good Pro-Twin, and I know what I'd rather ride (hint: it's not a commuter bike).

Sorry Red, I've digressed, but it's just a shame that people seem to fixate on having an ultra competitive bike. That competive bike is wasted at entry level and an unnecessary expense yet people seem to think they must have it. We're doing it for fun, and the fact we aren't on the podium shouldn't diminish that fun. The Kiwi attitude of just having a go seems to have been replaced by unless you are winning or close to winning it's not worth it. Shame that.

[JJ58]

Haha, all racers in NZ are privateers on a global level, with maybe the exception of one. Anyway, maybe Red's right, maybe a split class would be good. I personally beleive that the gap between pro twin and 600 will be narrowed with an increase of talent in that field, so that should be the first improvement.

However, many other countries have a rider classification when entering in 600/SB's, in order to differentiate those newbies from competing against the factory teams.

Here's Canada's rules regarding this:

http://www.cdnsuperbike.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=901&Itemid=209

A good point for consideration.

[brads]

WHile having a privateer championship would help. I think the bigger problem facing the sport is getting the public's interest. Once the public are interested in coming to watch motorcycle racing, it will be easier to attract the sorts of sponsors who are willing to spend $200'000 pa on a V8 touring car or speedway sprintcar.

Perhaps allowing the privateers more in the way of modifications (cams are cheap horsepower) would get them racing closer to the front of the field.

That's not silly, dangling the carrot

Naked bikes appeal to a different sort of person to fully faired bikes. Imagine having all the post classic racers on their bandit road bikes. Would be better than watching them on their 200 year old 25cc two strokes.

Not sure if cams are THAT cheap mate,and honestly having privateers with more mods than the "factory" boys will not make them closer to them,they are faster because they are better riders,not because they are on faster bikes,free entry is a good idea,but what if they dont win it,entrys would have closed by then,maybe a refund on entry instead.

[SWERVE]

Red glad to see ya posting. not that anyone with a real interest in nz racin would not know who you are or how much time and money you have already committed (not just running triple r)
I think the privateer cup is awesome ( it works everywhere else in the world)
There is a huge gap between "factory/sponsered riders" and the rest and your idea would help to rectify this.
love the naked bike class idea too.......... the very limited mods would mean that you could easily still use it daily (as most of us cant justify 2 bikes)
I have ridden a few nakeds (bikes that is) in the uk against full race bikes and believe you me they are exciting to watch and ride...... as well as "surprising" a few people too
I also think that incorparating BEARS into the mix would be an excellent idea.
just look how successful BEARS is at ruapuna and the SOT. There would be no shortage of competitors. And lets face it if you generally own something fast and non-japanesse you are not "on the bones of your asre" are you.
mate i will be 100% behind you whatever you decide to push.
I have a 15 yr old son who currently races an RG150. He already has an F3 650 and a F2/BEARS 675 lined up to ride later this year. we have a sponsor who wants to help as much as he can to help the boy progress to the top level. WE will all be right behind ya with any new ideas that help the young talent move forward over here.
look forward to you next move
TEAM OS RACING

[scracha]

Will racing a spongy pud (most of 'em are a compromise at best) help develop the skills to step up to a pure sports bike?

Yes, yes yes. Be it a modern sports bike or a spongy pud, the fundamentals of manouvering a bike the fastest way around a track remains the same. Putting it another way, the top Nationals guys could jump on some of the "spongy pud's" out there and still kick ass*.



You could damn near buy 2 early R1's for the price of a good Pro-Twin, and I know what I'd rather ride (hint: it's not a commuter bike).

To be honest, knowing the running costs and in terms of smiles per race and developing my riding, I'd rather have the good Pro-Twin bike...but I digress.
So isn't the real answer just to have a championship within the F1/F2 for bikes 5 years and older? As has been said, it's no more work wot with them computer things that are able to add up points.


The Kiwi attitude of just having a go seems to have been replaced by unless you are winning or close to winning it's not worth it. Shame that.
With the money involved in just competing (peeps in other threads mentioning clubmans racers having trye-warmers, slicks, ohlins, wets, etc...+ transponders) it's hardly surprising folks go there with a must win attitude. I personally think all that go faster $hit should be banned in Clubmans and it should be brought back to the run what ya brung style fun n' games.

I see more stick being given to the $hite 20 year old 400's. The $hite 20 year old 400's currently make up a huge part of the field at club level racing and it's a shame so many F1 and F2 riders continue to knock them. They should instead be encouraging riders to jump on $2K 400's or the 6K pro twins bikes (budget permitting) and just have a go before getting on 600 or thou. There's far too much emphasis on getting inexperienced riders straight into F2 well before they're ready.
:first:


*apart from Drew on an RGV250...bwhahahahahahaha

[Ivan]

Yes, yes yes. Be it a modern sports bike or a spongy pud, the fundamentals of manouvering a bike the fastest way around a track remains the same. Putting it another way, the top Nationals guys could jump on some of the "spongy pud's" out there and still kick ass*.


To be honest, knowing the running costs and in terms of smiles per race and developing my riding, I'd rather have the good Pro-Twin bike...but I digress.
So isn't the real answer just to have a championship within the F1/F2 for bikes 5 years and older? As has been said, it's no more work wot with them computer things that are able to add up points.


With the money involved in just competing (peeps in other threads mentioning clubmans racers having trye-warmers, slicks, ohlins, wets, etc...+ transponders) it's hardly surprising folks go there with a must win attitude. I personally think all that go faster $hit should be banned in Clubmans and it should be brought back to the run what ya brung style fun n' games.

I see more stick being given to the $hite 20 year old 400's. The $hite 20 year old 400's currently make up a huge part of the field at club level racing and it's a shame so many F1 and F2 riders continue to knock them. They should instead be encouraging riders to jump on $2K 400's or the 6K pro twins bikes (budget permitting) and just have a go before getting on 600 or thou. There's far too much emphasis on getting inexperienced riders straight into F2 well before they're ready.
:first:


*apart from Drew on an RGV250...bwhahahahahahaha


Exactly agree here the lower classes are really really great I used to not be interestedin F3 at all until I got into pro twins but it is really great learning class.

I do think tho a way of allowing guys in F2 F1 to be more competive would be great but still have the opportunity for the fast as guys with the money to spend a provateer series is good

We need to get pro twins bigger maybe Biassed but its a real good stepping stone your on a biggish bike with enough grunt and you have to ride em fast

[Wingnut]

- Even if I entered clubmans it's then a big jump up to a full noise racing class in F2. From what I understand F3 means buying a 20 year old 400 which hardly appeals after track time on a modern supersport.


Dissagree totally. Perhaps you should try it. I love riding a shitty old 400 on the track as opposed to riding a GSXR1000 on the road. Its really enjoyable to be able to shoot round a track (be it at a slower speed than you would on a 1000) and not have to worry about dropping a bike worth $10k +. My track bike is worth less than what it would cost to fix my GSXR if I binned it. Its great!

[k14]

- Even if I entered clubmans it's then a big jump up to a full noise racing class in F2. From what I understand F3 means buying a 20 year old 400 which hardly appeals after track time on a modern supersport.
Have a look at the Ozzy 450 thread. That will probably give you something to look into. It certainly has me very interested. A 600 that goes a little bit slower (we're only talking 3-4s a lap at puke), uses less tyres and is a lot easier on all other aspects regarding wear and tear. You can pick up a 3-4 year old 600 in race trim for around $7k. In my opinion this has just created a big jab in the arm for F3 racing. Someone who doesn't want to spend more than an F2 bike to race in F3 and it is capable of winning. The idea of a converted commuter bike just doesn't really tickle my fancy that much.

In regards to Reds ideas, I think they are great. I do however hold some concerns regarding the naked bike class attracting potential runners in F2 and F1 away though. The privateer idea is awesome!

[svr]

Have a look at the Ozzy 450 thread. That will probably give you something to look into. It certainly has me very interested. A 600 that goes a little bit slower (we're only talking 3-4s a lap at puke), uses less tyres and is a lot easier on all other aspects regarding wear and tear. You can pick up a 3-4 year old 600 in race trim for around $7k. In my opinion this has just created a big jab in the arm for F3 racing. Someone who doesn't want to spend more than an F2 bike to race in F3 and it is capable of winning. The idea of a converted commuter bike just doesn't really tickle my fancy that much.

In regards to Reds ideas, I think they are great. I do however hold some concerns regarding the naked bike class attracting potential runners in F2 and F1 away though. The privateer idea is awesome!

That's definitely an option for 600 clubmans riders looking to move into a racing class - F3. Chris gave me a ride on the 450 last sunday and it is definitely a more rewarding racebike than a protwin or my F3-sv. Cheap racing too - you could use throwaway slicks from superbikes and keep / develop the bike over the years.

The nakedbike class has merits - it would be attractive to casual roadracers who want to race their roadbikes, and the bike isnt rendered obsolete by a new model every year. The downside is that there are large differences in the performance level of the various nakeds, so it's not really a `riders' class in the spirit of production racing.

[Robert Taylor]

That's definitely an option for 600 clubmans riders looking to move into a racing class - F3. Chris gave me a ride on the 450 last sunday and it is definitely a more rewarding racebike than a protwin or my F3-sv. Cheap racing too - you could use throwaway slicks from superbikes and keep / develop the bike over the years.

The nakedbike class has merits - it would be attractive to casual roadracers who want to race their roadbikes, and the bike isnt rendered obsolete by a new model every year. The downside is that there are large differences in the performance level of the various nakeds, so it's not really a `riders' class in the spirit of production racing.

Every class is a riders class! Sure youve got to have competitive machinery to be at the sharp end but that is always the reality, a combination of competitive machinery, set up skill and rider ability. Thats what competition is about irrespective of class rules.

[slowpoke]

Yes, yes yes. Be it a modern sports bike or a spongy pud, the fundamentals of manouvering a bike the fastest way around a track remains the same. Putting it another way, the top Nationals guys could jump on some of the "spongy pud's" out there and still kick ass*.

When ya put it like that I absolutely agree mate. Master's Stroud or Shirrif's would most definiely hand me my arse if they were on say, a Hornet, and I was one of their "cost means nothing" Superbikes. Sad, but true.

To be honest, knowing the running costs and in terms of smiles per race and developing my riding, I'd rather have the good Pro-Twin bike...but I digress.
So isn't the real answer just to have a championship within the F1/F2 for bikes 5 years and older? As has been said, it's no more work wot with them computer things that are able to add up points.

Your on fire fella! It's often occurred to me that there's nowhere to race all those cheap as chips superbikes from a few too many years ago. Surely they present the absolute cheapest way onto a fast sports focussed machine to take to the track. Seems like a wasted resource. As for those cumputer-ma-jigs.that smart fukker at Piako Computers could probably sort something out......?
With the money involved in just competing (peeps in other threads mentioning clubmans racers having trye-warmers, slicks, ohlins, wets, etc...+ transponders) it's hardly surprising folks go there with a must win attitude. I personally think all that go faster $hit should be banned in Clubmans and it should be brought back to the run what ya brung style fun n' games.

Again, your on to it. Maybe a stipulation of entering Clubman's should be "No Tyre Warmers"? If you have got your shit sorted that far maybe you should be looking at F1/2/3 rather than what should be an entry level class?



Have a look at the Ozzy 450 thread. That will probably give you something to look into. It certainly has me very interested. A 600 that goes a little bit slower (we're only talking 3-4s a lap at puke), uses less tyres and is a lot easier on all other aspects regarding wear and tear. You can pick up a 3-4 year old 600 in race trim for around $7k. In my opinion this has just created a big jab in the arm for F3 racing. Someone who doesn't want to spend more than an F2 bike to race in F3 and it is capable of winning. The idea of a converted commuter bike just doesn't really tickle my fancy that much.

In regards to Reds ideas, I think they are great. I do however hold some concerns regarding the naked bike class attracting potential runners in F2 and F1 away though. The privateer idea is awesome!

While I love the idea of the Ozzy 450 (unlike most Mr Osborne is all action and lil' talk, champion) I don't quite see the logic behind buying an old F2 bike and turning it in to an F3 bike. Why not just run it in F2? As per discussions with Chris himself, a better idea would be to buy an up to the minute F2 R6 (for example only) for a promising rider, convert it to F3 for his/her entry, then after a year of F3 run it in F2 whil it's still at the pointy end. That way suspension development and familiarity with the machine are not wasted. For not much more than the cost of a top end service it makes great sense...pity I'm such an old fart.

[k14]

While I love the idea of the Ozzy 450 (unlike most Mr Osborne is all action and lil' talk, champion) I don't quite see the logic behind buying an old F2 bike and turning it in to an F3 bike. Why not just run it in F2? As per discussions with Chris himself, a better idea would be to buy an up to the minute F2 R6 (for example only) for a promising rider, convert it to F3 for his/her entry, then after a year of F3 run it in F2 whil it's still at the pointy end. That way suspension development and familiarity with the machine are not wasted. For not much more than the cost of a top end service it makes great sense...pity I'm such an old fart.
Well my logic is that it is a way to get used to 600's without having to firstly fork out the cost of a new/season old 600 and secondly save money on the biggest cost of tyres. Secondly it would cost a similar amount to converting an SV650 to F3/pro twin trim and you get the same level of competition (not far off 600's either).

See for me, having done quite a bit of racing in 125's, there is no clear direction to go apart from the rather large (IMO) step up to 600's. That is a very costly experience and without support from the half dozen or so guys in NZ that know how to set one up and win in the class you are wasting your time. I see pro twins as a side step and a commuter commuter bike converted to race setup doesn't exactly appeal (although I admit I have never ridden one) to someone coming from a pure bred grand prix machine. The Ozzy 450 method provides an excellent halfway step in between.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

:bash: here we go again!

[discotex]

Dissagree totally. Perhaps you should try it. I love riding a shitty old 400 on the track as opposed to riding a GSXR1000 on the road. Its really enjoyable to be able to shoot round a track (be it at a slower speed than you would on a 1000) and not have to worry about dropping a bike worth $10k +. My track bike is worth less than what it would cost to fix my GSXR if I binned it. Its great!

I will try it as currently it's just my perception. I don't think a 400 will have enough power to keep me happy but that has to be a good thing for making you pick up the mid corner speed.


Have a look at the Ozzy 450 thread. That will probably give you something to look into. It certainly has me very interested. A 600 that goes a little bit slower (we're only talking 3-4s a lap at puke), uses less tyres and is a lot easier on all other aspects regarding wear and tear.

Hmm I get ya but why wouldn't you just jump straight to F2?


I just found exactly what I would be keen on in the Aussie scene. FZ6 Masters class. You can get a race prepped FZ6 for $10,600 which is a subsidised price. One would assume Yamaha are doing them at near cost. You even get an Ohlins shock and all the road gear!

Some details here:

http://www.cluby.com.au/node/1447
http://racedeadline.com.au/?page=ViewRelease&p=3&id=ARD2009013072190

[discotex]

And seems the Aussies have locked tyre prices for Superstock 600/1000 and FZ6 masters as well....

http://www.ma.org.au/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Supp_regs_entry_forms4&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentFileID=42955



CONTROL TYRE pricing is as follows;
Fronts 120/70 17 D209GP Racer $205.00
Rears 180/55 17 D209 GP Racer $270.00
Rears 190/55 17 D209 GP Racer $290.00
600 set = $475.00
1000 set = $495.00


$750 for the 600 set at Cycletreads :gob:

[codgyoleracer]

Hi Red,
The privateers class idea is a " no brainer", different colour number boards i assume ?. Have mentioned similar in past to Paul S & media, - but no follow up.
Hope you have the time take it further & onto MNZ as a proposal, if you need any signatures of support you will have mine.
Glen Williams

[Tony.OK]

I can already see it now....................a certain Privateer showing up the Distributor sponsored riders.....:yes:

[R1madness]

hi Triple R

mate dont take this the wrong way, but who are you dude lol

All sounds great but can you intro yourself a tad for us please ?

Cheers and awesome post !

Jesus man get some class. Red (Peter Fenton) is the man behind tripple R racing. They have won several production superbike championships (bugger them) and 600 production championships, infact they won both the 600 and Superbike titles this year.......

Thought you were into the race scene!

[johnsv650]

who won 600's this year ?

[Wingnut]

I can already see it now....................a certain Privateer showing up the Distributor sponsored riders.....:yes:

I saw you on tele yesterday! Wow Im star struck!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tony.OK]

Jesus man get some class. Red (Peter Fenton) is the man behind tripple R racing. They have won several production superbike championships (bugger them) and 600 production championships, infact they won both the 600 and Superbike titles this year.......

Thought you were into the race scene!


who won 600's this year ?

Lol..........coulda sworn Jones won it:innocent:

[Tony.OK]

I saw you on tele yesterday! Wow Im star struck!!!!!!!!!!!

Was I?
Buggar I wish I could afford Sky..................more importantly did I look good? Hahaa:innocent:

[Wingnut]

Was I?
Buggar I wish I could afford Sky..................more importantly did I look good? Hahaa:innocent:

Your name was mentioned multiple times as you were amongst a group of 5 in a battle for ??? placing at the street racing. All good to see any local racing on tele here. We need to up the exposure at that level. But thats another thread entirely..............

[Two Smoker]

Great post Red. And top stuff with what youre doing with NZ Motorcycle Racing :niceone:.

As has been mentioned before, getting the public interested in Motorcycle Racing needs to be the priority. With that interest, naturally more money comes to the sport, and getting sponsorship becomes slightly easier.

A privateer class would be great. Nothing needs to be changed, it just needs to be implemented.

As for getting entries to the round paid, thats not the off putting part. The cost of tyres is the biggest problem. When running at the front you go through a minimum of 5 rears and 4 fronts. Thats nearly $2500 just on tyres alone per round.

[Mishy]

As for getting entries to the round paid, thats not the off putting part. The cost of tyres is the biggest problem. When running at the front you go through a minimum of 5 rears and 4 fronts. Thats nearly $2500 just on tyres alone per round.

Agreed - and something that could be worked with in the future perhaps. One area i think would help (apart from arbitrarlily restricting tyre use) would be longer races for the premier classes. We all spend all weekend trying to get the softest tyres to work because the race is so short that we really have no choice but to use the stupid sticky ones, and they just are not that durable. Also, the softest tyres are more prone to degradation if the conditions don't suit, or suspension is set poorly. If the races were a bit longer - 5 laps would be amost enough - then the story could be different.
If you are not aiming to use soft tyres for the race, then you will also practise on more durable, less tear prone medium tyres, and use less of them. It's kinda self regulating, and i would suspect many riders lower down the field do it this way already.
I have never understood why we have gone back to 15 lap races for the top two classes, and then finished the meeting at 3.00pm - more laps could make a useful difference, and would put more of an emphasis on picking durable tyres for the meeting.
That could be a step towards saving a dollar or two - it would just mean that overall laptimes may be a tiny touch slower, although i'm quite sure it wouldn't be much as long as we have the scope to tune suspension correctly to get the best we can.

[Shaun P]

Good point, also I think superbike should be a control slick tyre at a fixed cost for everyone entered as usually some teams/riders get special prices if they have been around for a while, where up and comers have to pay more per set - there is also a supply issue as well, same case if there is a superstock class formed - other classes should still have the homologated range.

[The Chow]

Hi Guys

I would like to voice my opinion on the matter of Paul S not standing for commissioner.As a member of the close team that ran the series , I am qualified to let you know what shit has happened over the last few months.

However first things first , Paul may have decided to not run. But what you the riders have to realise that it is not just Paul you may have lost but also the volunteer team behind the scenes , you know the people , the ones who put all the flags up and scaffolds and signage for the sponsors and TV , run the internet site for the champs which by the way is no more , which by the way gave coverage to get over 60,ooo individual users and over 1,500,000 hits from March 08 to March 09.the same people who organise the prize givings , commentate , feed the riders on race day morning and do countless other things that many riders take for granted. I'm not talking about the clubs , I'm talking about the series people.

Remember riders we did all the stuff to the best that we could do for amateurs , so you guys could get your fun out on the track , weekend in and weekend out.

We got bagged for the low turn outs at the nationals , we got bagged at Paeroa and on the radio by a well know commentator , we got bagged by the governing body , we got bagged for the lack of TV coverage .

You name it we got bagged for it. And yet we the team , Paul Stewart , Jim T , Jim D , Ian , Guy , Neil , Paul and Heather Seranake and Lynda Blair did it because we loved the sport , but to be honest , it is a job anyone can do , well isn't it? . Well now your chance to find out , someone pick up the batten and lets see what you can do.

The series is not run by one person and it doesn't really matter about how much money is being spent or how much talk is talked , the series does not happen without a group of people who are prepared to do it because they love the sport first for no wages other than some expenses in some cases.

[ArcherWC]

[QUOTE=Robert Taylor;2020857]a little bit smaller and lighter than you. [QUOTE]


Eddie you fat bastard, when are we having lunch and catching up?

[R1madness]

hahahahahahah too much drugs for me. yea a certain mr G Jones did win the 600 class this year....... bloody aussies..... on a bloody yamaha no less.....

[j-lo69]

Hi Guys

I would like to voice my opinion on the matter of Paul S not standing for commissioner.As a member of the close team that ran the series , I am qualified to let you know what shit has happened over the last few months.

However first things first , Paul may have decided to not run. But what you the riders have to realise that it is not just Paul you may have lost but also the volunteer team behind the scenes , you know the people , the ones who put all the flags up and scaffolds and signage for the sponsors and TV , run the internet site for the champs which by the way is no more , which by the way gave coverage to get over 60,ooo individual users and over 1,500,000 hits from March 08 to March 09.the same people who organise the prize givings , commentate , feed the riders on race day morning and do countless other things that many riders take for granted. I'm not talking about the clubs , I'm talking about the series people.

Remember riders we did all the stuff to the best that we could do for amateurs , so you guys could get your fun out on the track , weekend in and weekend out.

We got bagged for the low turn outs at the nationals , we got bagged at Paeroa and on the radio by a well know commentator , we got bagged by the governing body , we got bagged for the lack of TV coverage .

You name it we got bagged for it. And yet we the team , Paul Stewart , Jim T , Jim D , Ian , Guy , Neil , Paul and Heather Seranake and Lynda Blair did it because we loved the sport , but to be honest , it is a job anyone can do , well isn't it? . Well now your chance to find out , someone pick up the batten and lets see what you can do.

The series is not run by one person and it doesn't really matter about how much money is being spent or how much talk is talked , the series does not happen without a group of people who are prepared to do it because they love the sport first for no wages other than some expenses in some cases.


yes you guys are ledgends in my books. what your team done was fantastic and you guys deserve credit not what you have copd. well done team good work!!!!!!!!!!!