Legal question about bike return

[MadDuck]

I was talked into buying a larger bike that I found over two days was fit for the purpose I bought it. It was physically large and around 30kgs heaver than I can handle.
I returned the bike on the 2nd working day after I took it home. The bike shop refused to uphold a right of return and allowed me to take my trade in bike home, and sell the other bike on my behalf then give me the monetary difference.

I would like to know what the legalities are in regards to the right of return with a vehicle and if the bike shop is breaking a law by not upholding it.
Also how do I address this professional manner.

[Fatjim]

Just cause its 30kg too heavy doesn't make it "not fit for purpose". The consumer act doesn't give you the right to return a bike because it doesn't fit.

Your stuck, based on what you've said.

[CookMySock]

Your stuck, based on what you've said.Maybe so, but that is not what a reputable bike shop would do.

Name and shame time. edit: and don't worry about using a professional manner. You have every right to feel very strongly about that, so let them have it.

Steve

[MadDuck]

Just cause its 30kg too heavy doesn't make it "not fit for purpose".

Oops...there was one word too many in there when I typed this up.

[98tls]

PM the likes of FROSTY,as a dealer he will know whats what,pretty sure you have the law on your side but he will know.

[Fatjim]

Maybe so, but that is not what a reputable bike shop would do.

Name and shame time. edit: and don't worry about using a professional manner. You have every right to feel very strongly about that, so let them have it.

Steve

Don't be a dork. Of course its what any bike shop would consider doing unless there really are exceptional circumstances. The best he can hope for normally is to trade the new bike on something on the floor.

Fortunately, the only prat that needs "naming and shaming" has done that already in this thread.

[McDuck]

In all honesty didnt you test ride the bike first? If not and they talked you into the purchase than i would be wanting cash back but if you test rode it, said 'its fine' AFTER YOU TESTED IT, with the purpose of the test to make sure it is fit for you to ride? I know i wouldnt buy i bike that i could not take for a 200km+ test ride becuase i ama tall bugger and some bikes just dont fit.

I dont see how this is any different.

[skidMark]

Maybe so, but that is not what a reputable bike shop would do.

Name and shame time. edit: and don't worry about using a professional manner. You have every right to feel very strongly about that, so let them have it.

Steve


It's not time to name and shame when the company may be in the right...

can't expect good service "cos they are a bike shop"

they have a business to run.

[Quasievil]

if its on finance isnt there a 7 day cooling off period where by you can reverse the transaction if you wish to?
dunno just a thought.

Consumer guarantees act mmmmmmmmmmmm well its fit for purpose just not you, it would be a tricky one, i mean they dont have to take it back because you changed your mind about it.

I think that they should simply take it back and forget it, but I dont think they are obliged to unless you can prove this right of return in writing, or can demonstrate that it formed but of the contract by way of written word or verbal.

Good luck mate

[skidMark]

if its on finance isnt there a 7 day cooling off period where by you can reverse the transaction if you wish to?
dunno just a thought.

Consumer guarantees act mmmmmmmmmmmm well its fit for purpose just not you, it would be a tricky one, i mean they dont have to take it back because you changed your mind about it.

I think that they should simply take it back and forget it, but I dont think they are obliged to unless you can prove this right of return in writing, or can demonstrate that it formed but of the contract by way of written word or verbal.

Good luck mate


Consumer guarantees act is to protect consumers for bad/ faulty product.

It does not cover the buyers ability to use it to their needs etc, that is thier own decision to make...

[MadDuck]

Yes it was taken for a test ride, yes I did tell the salesman that I was concerned abaot the weight. He is an experinced salesman and kept the conversation focused on a sale. I told him that I did not think it would be suitable in all situations that I take my bike, he continued with his sales pitch.

The test ride did not include all situations that I would commonly find myself in with my bike.

The bike is not on finance it was paid with my trade in and cash.

[Winston001]

I was talked into buying a larger bike that I found over two days was fit for the purpose I bought it. It was physically large and around 30kgs heaver than I can handle.
I returned the bike on the 2nd working day after I took it home. The bike shop refused to uphold a right of return and allowed me to take my trade in bike home, and sell the other bike on my behalf then give me the monetary difference.

I would like to know what the legalities are in regards to the right of return with a vehicle and if the bike shop is breaking a law by not upholding it.
Also how do I address this professional manner.

Ok a genuine and no doubt heart-felt question. BUT as written it doesn't make sense. You can edit and should. At the moment you are saying the bike is fit for the purpose, and the bike shop is doing two contrary things: refusing, and allowing.

We can read between the lines and understand the question, but its worth reading through before you post.

Anyway your point is that you were "talked into buying a larger bike". In other words the salesman represented to you that the bike was right for you, and would be fit for your purpose. Thats a breach of the Fair Trading Act and probably the Consumer Guarantees Act so you have an argument on your side.

All very well - the shop will doubtless disagree and proving you were talked into an inappropriate machine is your word against theirs. Your only option to enforce your rights is the Disputes Tribunal or the District Court.

The quicker way would be to keep on at the shop, argue calmly and don't bend. Get support, quiet determination will often wear others down.

Or, accept the decision was yours and live with it. Nothing wrong with taking responsibility on your own shoulders. :niceone:

[MadDuck]

Refused to take it back and refund my trade in and the cash.
But has allowed me to take my bike back and will give me the cash when they sell the other one.

[AllanB]

Or, accept the decision was yours and live with it. Nothing wrong with taking responsibility on your own shoulders. :niceone:

Pretty much what I was thinking.....at the end of the day no matter how heavy handed they may have been, you signed for it, even though you had your doubts. With me the more heavy handed a sales person is the less chance I'll stay interested!

The new bike buying process should be all good and one should be filling their panties with excitement over their new purchase, not wondering if it is suitable........that's when you walk away and come back in a couple of days to reassess the situation.

I agree it's not a 'KB name and shame' situation You need to have a serious sit down with the shop manager and the sales agent to see if you can work out a suitable result.

Or put the bike up on KB as a $50 per ticket draw.........

Whats the bike?

[AllanB]

Refused to take it back and refund my trade in and the cash.
But has allowed me to take my bike back and will give me the cash when they sell the other one.

That's a result then :apint:

[Quasievil]

Consumer guarantees act is to protect consumers for bad/ faulty product.

It does not cover the buyers ability to use it to their needs etc, that is thier own decision to make...

Yeah ,did I say the opposite daaaahhhh

[MadDuck]

Thanks for your responses guys.

I guess I am basically asking if there is a legal cooling off period that you can return a vehicle under if you pay cash?

[Patch]

Thanks for your responses guys.

I guess I am basically asking if there is a legal cooling off period that you can return a vehicle under if you pay cash?
if you didn't write the clause into the contract then no, is what I understand. Same thing applies if you buy privately.

You only have a case if they misrepresented the goods or you felt intimidated/under duress to complete the sale.


I see your dilema as moral not legal (based on the current info). The shops actions reflect their attitude to customer service.

If you feel hard done by, why give them further business, if they will not help you. Take the new bike back, you have every right too (unless you signed something relevant to the sale of it, small print etc etc) and sell it elsewhere, either privately or another shop.


A shame really, as this might be an expensive lesson, either time/effort/lawyer to void the sale vs. re-sale difference. Either way rock and a hard place comes to mind.

[Winston001]

Thanks for your responses guys.

I guess I am basically asking if there is a legal cooling off period that you can return a vehicle under if you pay cash?

No.

The only exception I can think of is the Door To Door Sales Act 1967.

Your only argument is that you were told the bike was suitable for your purposes. And its a hard argument to sustain and prove.

It sounds like you bought the bike, are disappointed, and changed your mind. That's a pity but the law cannot protect us from that. Sometimes we just make the wrong choice. The shops offer doesn't seem unreasonable but if you persist, they might give up and refund.

[MSTRS]

Just tell them that you know 14,807 potential customers and you will be telling them all about....

[pritch]

Refused to take it back and refund my trade in and the cash.
But has allowed me to take my bike back and will give me the cash when they sell the other one.

It's understandable that you aren't happy however the shop is not being unfair.
If you can get them to move though all to the good. Have they got another bike you could live with?

Just hope they don't go belly up before they sell the bike...


Might pay to avoid that salesman in future though. Anytime you aren't 100% comfortable - walk away. You can always go back later when you do feel right.

[MoNk]

Can't you find something else you like at the shop?

This might be more attractive to the shop than just giving the bike back and taking your money. They still make a sale this way.

[GOPSTER]

You should of noticed the weight during the test ride and not been sucked into the deal. Here are a few things that may help

1)Under the consumer guarantees act
Guarantees as to fitness for particular purpose (goods must be fit for the particular purpose that the consumer made clear to supplier and the supplier said that it was – supplier claim)
If you stated the types of riding you do and were told the bike would be suitable.

2)If you feel mislead or decieved by what you were told you may be covered by the fair trading act.

[popa griffin]

I always was under the impresion you had 7 days to return the product in the same condition that you got it in, if you wernt happy, no matter what the reason.

[Renegade]

my thoughts were was their another bike in the shop you like?

[ajturbo]

bugger matey...

what was wrong with the old bike???

not fast enough???

wellington bike shops wouldn't have done that.. would they???

[R1madness]

Maybe so, but that is not what a reputable bike shop would do.

Name and shame time. edit: and don't worry about using a professional manner. You have every right to feel very strongly about that, so let them have it.

Steve

Not fair Steve. The shop owner may well have tried to disuade the owner from that particular bike and pointed the purchaser in the direction of something more suitable. But its the buyers choice.

Did you ride the bike before purchasing it? If so you must have convinced yourself you could handle it. If not well........ thats a big mistake. The dealer is well within his rights to refuse to do anything but since they have given your trade back and offered to resell the bike and refund the money on sale they are being very fair. Remember it was your mistake not theirs.

Good on that shop for offering to help you out.

[R1madness]

I always was under the impresion you had 7 days to return the product in the same condition that you got it in, if you wernt happy, no matter what the reason.

a common misconseption. And sooooo not true.

[scumdog]

I always was under the impresion you had 7 days to return the product in the same condition that you got it in, if you wernt happy, no matter what the reason.

Sadly 'under the impression' of a lot of things has got a lot of people into a pickle.
Facts, not impressions are what's needed.

[YellowDog]

I am suprised by the attitude of the bike shop. Everyone knows that a bike shop is porno on 2 wheels and that getting seduced is the easiest thing in the world.

I have heard of many situations where the bike shop has taken 'buyers remorse' bikes back to help them put right the seduction; though they have usually sold them something else.

I would say that this is a sign of the present hard times being faced by all traders and as they have done a lot of work to prepare the bike for the seller, I would suggest you should offer them something for their inconvenienvce. e.g. Swap bikes back less $300 cash for their inconvenience OR something similar.

The other option of course is to attend a 'Street Skills' class to learn how to effortlessly handle the extra 30Kg

I am also thinking that there may well be another reason for wanting to return the bike and the extra 30Kg is just an excuse?

Did anyone say what the bike in question is?

Good luck

[Madness]

But has allowed me to take my bike back and will give me the cash when they sell the other one.

That could take a year.

Maybe if you ditched some of the tassles?, might reduce some of the 30kg?.

[McJim]

This is why I hate buying big ticket items from shops. I will always try trademe and classifieds first. Some of us don't enjoy hard sells or haggling - apparently we are supposed to deal with it and adapt - apparently it's OUR OWN FAULT if we are nice pleasant amiable people.

I remember when I was buying a car I wanted a Holden Commodore - went to Moyes. The sell was so hard I walked out while the guy was still talking-his manager came out to try and stop me walking out the door - I warned him I would keep walking and if he was still in my way then it was his hospital bill.

I then bought a Ford Falcon later that day.

I hate hard sells.

[YellowDog]

This is why I hate buying big ticket items from shops. I will always try trademe and classifieds first. Some of us don't enjoy hard sells or haggling - apparently we are supposed to deal with it and adapt - apparently it's OUR OWN FAULT if we are nice pleasant amiable people.

I remember when I was buying a car I wanted a Holden Commodore - went to Moyes. The sell was so hard I walked out while the guy was still talking-his manager came out to try and stop me walking out the door - I warned him I would keep walking and if he was still in my way then it was his hospital bill.

I then bought a Ford Falcon later that day.

I hate hard sells.
Look on the bright side: At least it wasn't a Kirby vaccuum cleaner!

[McJim]

Look on the bright side: At least it wasn't a Kirby vaccuum cleaner!

Their sales team is now selling HRV...we had the whole HRV & DVS thing going on a couple of years ago. The one who said "If you accept the offer today we'll give you an x% discount" was told "If you can afford to sell product with that discount today then you are being dishonest on other days. This also smacks of pressure and I have invitied you into my house. This means you have insulted my hospitality. I hope you enjoy the combination of sex and travel coz I am now about to tell you to F**k off."

I used to sell fitted kitchens. I got more sales, repeat business and referrals than anyone else because I listened and did not pressurise customers.

[Tank]

Consumer guarantees act is to protect consumers for bad/ faulty product.

It does not cover the buyers ability to use it to their needs etc, that is thier own decision to make...

That (like most of the stuff you type) is just wrong - they goods must fit you - eg:

"It must be fit for all purposes it might commonly be used for, have an acceptable appearance and be safe and durable. For example, if it is a chair, it must take your weight."

[Tank]

Only one option.

Try your luck at the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal - it cost $50.

At the very least you may make it hard enough for them so they take the easy way and make a deal with you.

Here are all the details for you:


Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal
The MVDT is run by the Department of Courts. There is a $50 fee for taking a claim to the MVDT. The hearings are in private and you can't be represented by a lawyer - although you can consult a lawyer before the hearing.

There are time limits for going to the MVDT so make sure you take action as soon as possible.

The MVDT will ask the dealer to discuss the problem with you. If the problem isn't resolved to your satisfaction, the Tribunal will set a date for a hearing.

The MVDT can hear claims up to $50,000 (or more if both the parties agree).

The MVDT can order remedies available under the Consumer Guarantees Act, Fair Trading Act, or the Sale of Goods Act.

For example, under the Consumer Guarantees Act you may be able to claim a refund, or require the dealer to meet the cost of repairs. Where there has been a breach of the Fair Trading Act, you may be able to claim for any resulting loss of value.

To contact the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal:

Ring them on 0800 367 6838
or write to them at PO Box 6848, Wellesley Street, Auckland.

[Tank]

Maybe so, but that is not what a reputable bike shop would do.

Name and shame time. edit: and don't worry about using a professional manner. You have every right to feel very strongly about that, so let them have it.

Steve

As usual - DB you go off on the wrong 'crazy rant' path - Naming and Shaming does nothing to help resolve the issue. Staff could work here and it would make life harder for the OP.

Try (Just for once) to engage your brain before offering piss poor advice.

[Tank]

another option could be the Fair trading act.

"The car-yard trader must not mislead or deceive you, or make false representations about the vehicle."

So if they said it was OK for size - but you can 'prove' that it isnt (statements from other bike shops / riding instructor) you may be able to fight it thru there.

[YellowDog]

Good advice Tank, but I would hope that, before doing this, going back to the shop and speaking with the owner (hopefully not the same guy as the salesman) to get them to voluntarily do something closer to being acceptable would save a great deal of inconvenience and expense.

[Tank]

Good advice Tank, but I would hope that, before doing this, going back to the shop and speaking with the owner (hopefully not the same guy as the salesman) to get them to voluntarily do something closer to being acceptable would save a great deal of inconvenience and expense.

Sorry - you make a extremely good / important point. One would hope that he had already done this - its ALWAYS the first thing that should be done.

[ynot slow]

Have to say,speak to owner or head guy if owner not there,and ask to speak to both when suitable.Was in retail for 25yrs selling furniture,same thing,folks buy a bed don't like it after 2 days,we take it back and give another,obviously didn't happen much,but a happy customer etc.Similar with lounge suites,they like the colour,so my first question if it is a large couch, is can you get it in the doors,no sense buying a suite if only 2 chairs can fit inside lol,and no I never had problems,others did and it would piss the boss off,usually a discounted thing he bought a year before in a crappy colour.Comes down to listening to customers wants,same as I hate hard sell,I never told customers what to buy.

[White trash]

Sorry - you make a extremely good / important point. One would hope that he had already done this - its ALWAYS the first thing that should be done.
I'm sure she has. Lol.

I've sold Harleys for a living, they're the easiest thing in the world to sell, literally. And the repeat/word of mouth business is quite simply mind boggling. It's a piss poor salesman who's resorted to these tatics because, quite frankly, if his name gets out amongst the HD buying brigade, he wont be selling many any longer.

[MadDuck]

I would just like to make it known that it is not in relation to my Harley as I know I have posted on here where I bought it from and have absolutley NO problem. :scooter:

Sorry should have made it clear it is with regards a sprot bike purchase. Why do I need both - hmmm well just you lot never mind :Punk:

Thanks for some very good advice and suggestions with the situation :yes:

[Katman]

can't expect good service "cos they are a bike shop"

they have a business to run.

You should be able to expect good service from any business.

If a business thinks only of "having a business to run" at the expensive of providing good service then they shouldn't expect to be in business for long.

[Beemer]

When I bought my first bike I had only completed the basic handling skills course and didn't even have a learner's licence so wasn't in any fit state to take it for a test ride. Bought a new bike from a salesman at a well respected dealership. Bike was jammed in with all the others and he didn't even wheel it out for me to sit on (I know, bad way to buy a bike, but I had no one around to help at that stage and it looked cool!) and it was delivered to me. No one even showed me how to start it when it was delivered and I had assumed the kill switch was an electric start button... guess what, it wasn't!

Sat on it and discovered I could only reach the ground with my tippy-toes. Tried riding the bike and fell off quickly. Visited the shop I bought it from and the salesman had moved on already and the owner was very unsympathetic - told me there were some people who shouldn't be on bikes... I can't remember who it was there who offered to drop the forks and make the seat lower, but this was done and I think I paid about $125 for this work. Instantly the bike was rideable for me and I gained heaps of confidence and kept that bike for about four years.

But I didn't buy my next two bikes from that same dealer, despite the fact they do have some great staff.

However, if you test rode the bike and kept it for two days, then I think this is a harder one to call. I hadn't even sat on the bike and I think the guy was just interested in making a sale, not in offering service.

[MarkH]

Bought a new bike...didn't even wheel it out for me to sit on


:gob: I think some girls gotta learn to take the buying of a vehicle more seriously!

I hope your following purchases were a little more carefully thought out and you ensured the bikes would be suitable for you!

[YellowDog]

:gob: I think some girls gotta learn to take the buying of a vehicle more seriously!

I hope your following purchases were a little more carefully thought out and you ensured the bikes would be suitable for you!
That's a bit harsh. Yes of course you are right however we all know how emotional bike buying can be and if you are on your own, you expect to be looked after by the sales staff.

I have had excellent experiences at Auckland central dealerships. At a respectable dealership you don't expect to get railroaded down a track that may not be right for you.

[AllanB]

Just hope they don't go belly up before they sell the bike...


Hmmm worth considering this as there have been too many shops go under this year. It would pay to get a signed written statement that you own the bike and it's being sold on behalf from their management. Just in case...........

I had a back read but did not see it - what is the bike? interested as you stated it's too heavy but also a sport bike. A B-Kings heavy and fast!

[MarkH]

That's a bit harsh. Yes of course you are right however we all know how emotional bike buying can be and if you are on your own, you expect to be looked after by the sales staff.

If you are lucky you might get sales staff that will look after you, but I don't think it is safe to expect it. Generally I would expect to be sold to by sales staff and I try to take care not to buy something that isn't what I want. It can be worth taking a friend that is fairly knowledgeable and it is definitely worth deciding to just look and only decide 2 days after having looked at bikes. Vehicles are not the best goods to impulse buy.

[Motig]

Just curious- Harleys are fairly heavy bikes anyway so I'm thinking the sportsbike in question must be of large capacity. Sure its not just the riding position is so different that it just feels wrong ?

[Beemer]

:gob: I think some girls gotta learn to take the buying of a vehicle more seriously!

I hope your following purchases were a little more carefully thought out and you ensured the bikes would be suitable for you!

I undertook learning to ride all by myself, had no one to show me or help me when buying a bike. I was doing a lot of motorsport photography at the time and only went into this particular shop to drop off some photos for the guy who ended up selling me the bike. I mentioned I was learning to ride and he asked what bike I had and when I said none, he told me this bike would be 'perfect' for me. I said I couldn't take it for a test ride and he told me there was no need as it was a new bike...

Yes, I was bloody naive when I bought my first bike but it's not like I went in there and said "ooh, that's pretty, where do I sign?" Even the finance wasn't explained well and I discovered as soon as I got the paperwork that it had a 36% interest rate - yes, 36%! I quickly got a bank loan and paid that off to avoid the interest charges.

I think in some instances the bike shops DO have to accept some responsibility for ensuring the bike they are selling meets the purchaser's needs. If I'd taken it for a test ride, or even sat on it in the shop, I may not have bought it. I ended up loving the bike, but for the first six months I owned it, I was petrified of it. If it hadn't been for some very kind people who took me under their wing and taught me how to ride it, it would have ended up being an expensive garage ornament.

[Little Miss Trouble]

Just curious- Harleys are fairly heavy bikes anyway so I'm thinking the sportsbike in question must be of large capacity. Sure its not just the riding position is so different that it just feels wrong ?

For those of us who are a little on the short side its not just about weight, its a combination of height, weight, distribution of said weight and as you say - riding position.

[MarkH]

I think in some instances the bike shops DO have to accept some responsibility for ensuring the bike they are selling meets the purchaser's needs.

Maybe, but the savvy consumer realises that they have a vested interest in making sales (therefore making money). Since it is the buyers money they need to be careful about signing up for something that may not be what they really want. But I am sure you would have learnt from the experience and will avoid the issues you faced on that occasion, no matter how smooth the salesperson.

[White trash]

Just curious- Harleys are fairly heavy bikes anyway so I'm thinking the sportsbike in question must be of large capacity. Sure its not just the riding position is so different that it just feels wrong ?
Harleys are heavy, but also have an extremely low center of gravity and seat height. To ride they feel particularly light.

A Japanese Sports tourer such as Bandit or even SV1000S has a far higher center of gravity. Couple that with a tall seat height and a lot of women, particularly shorter ones, are going to have problems with them. Especially coupled with low speed maneuvering or getting said bike on and off the stand.

It's quite simple to see if you've ever seen a short person wrestling to get a tall bike off its sidestand.

The fact that a salesman would effectively bully somone into buying a machine they feel less than confident on disgusts me.

[Supermac Jr]

What will happen if you bin your 'old' bike? That will make the post counter work...