Slightly older sports bikes

[javawocky]

Hi,

The time has come to upgrade and my wallet says I could probably get something like an R1 or GSXR 1000 - early 2000 with around 40k on the clock. $7k-$8k on the Trademes

Now, is their anything I should be scared of related to unexpected costs of a sports bike of this vintage? Being a liter bike the engine probably just about run in - right? right?

Are there service costs and adjustments which need to be done at this stage in life which could bite me on the bum?

Keen to hear (horror stories / G rated family movie ) stories of bikes of this ilk.

Words of wisdom welcome

(I have ridden various liter+ bikes, so I don't need the "buy a smaller bike first" lecture thanks :innocent: )

[madbikeboy]

Okay, I can give an opinion of the K1/K2 GSXR's.

I have a K2, I've owned it for a few years, and to be honest, I still like it better than the k3/4, and the K6/7 with the heavy and lame dual pipes. The k2 and the k5 are IMHO the best ones.

The k2's are very strong, they have some issues with higer mileage ones, notibly the anti-stiction coating on the forks can wear out, they also have thin paint, and abuse means things like chains and clutches can be worn. If the front wheel has been landed heavily too often, they can ovalise their headset bearing cups.

The K2 has an automatic choke.

The K2's, in blue and black, get black wheels. White wheels are God's punishment for never cleaning your room as a kid.

You can buy a k2 for $7-8k, but you'll be getting something ratty, with poor service history, and a high likelihood of sliding down the road at some time in it's life.

I rode a K1 a couple of months ago that had been bought for $7k. Night and day between mine and his, his rode very poorly, with poor brakes, and really awful feeling suspension.

If you're into mod's, pick up a Yoshi Tri-oval, PC3, and cam it, and you can get very good HP easily. The K2's have tonnes of torque. If you like being a monkey, you can drop a tooth on the front, or 2 or even 3 teeth on the rear.

Mine is a little worked, and tire life can be depressingly bad if you turn the bike using the throttle like I tend to.

They're fun on track days, and a giggle on the street.

I've debated buying a later one, but I like the k2 the best. I almost bought a KTM SuperDuke (took one with the intention of never returning it a few weeks ago), but the throttle control is awful on them. After riding a GSXR, you'll learn to love the finesse of the throttle.

[madbikeboy]

One other thing, I also own a K5 600. For 99% of the time, the 600 is perfect for the street, and the 750 is even betterer. The running costs however are about halved over a thou assuming you ride sensibly. If you ride like a moron, you can kill a rear in a weekend.:bye:

[Bend-it]

my wallet says I could probably get something like an R1 or GSXR 1000

Bastard! :crybaby:

[javawocky]

Thanks badmonkey - wouldn't a 600 or 750 of the same vintage be more like to me in need of a major 'service'?

Bend-it :) Either you urn it or it falls magically from heaven - mine was sort of the latter

[MSTRS]

Thanks badmonkey - wouldn't a 600 or 750 of the same vintage be more like to me in need of a major 'service'?


Why? Any bike is only as good as the care taken with it. Barring a couple of boot zip scratches on the side pods, mine still looks just like it did in my profile pic. And it gets serviced when it's needed.
Not for sale tho...

[javawocky]

Why?

Well surely a 600 is working heaps harder than the 1000. I could be wrong here having come from the 2-stroke camp :D

Do they make engines out of really tough stuff nowday ;)

[R6_kid]

Being a liter bike the engine probably just about run in - right? right?

Engines make peak horsepower in the time closest to when the rings and valves are nicely sealed on their friction surfaces - that would be at about the 1000-2000km mark. Unless it's had some serious work after 40,000km+ i'd expect it to be a few HP down on when it was bought. But in saying that I don't think you'll miss 2-3hp when you have 130hp+ to play with.

[MSTRS]

Well surely a 600 is working heaps harder than the 1000.


If ridden as designed to do, there is probably little difference in the two.

[Finn]

Hi,

The time has come to upgrade and my wallet says I could probably get something like an R1 or GSXR 1000 - early 2000 with around 40k on the clock. $7k-$8k on the Trademes

Times are tough so make the most of it. $7 - 8k for a bike around 9 years old is way too much in this market. There are plenty around so go shopping. Find someone who is really hurting financially and bargain hard. Have no pride. It's a buyers market.

[Spyke]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=211542108

Have a look at this one

[Harvd]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=211542108

Have a look at this one

holy shit thats a lotta nice bike 4 not a lot of money

[javawocky]

Ha! shes on my watch list

[madbikeboy]

Replica fairings... Hmm. I wonder what might have happened in order to necessitate that???

Okay, the 600 vs 1000 working harder. The 1000 has a very tall first gear, and around town this means working the clutch alot. If the 600 has been thrashed alot, then maybe - the advantage of the 1000 is that few people actually thrash them. Thrashing a thou at 100% on the road is virtually impossible for long - the rider either becomes worm food, or gets time in small and substandard housing, care of the department of justice. The difference between a thou and a 600 is how the bikes accelerate above about 160kph (top end of first gear on a k2 1000), the thou just keeps pulling like a motherfucker until it hits the rev limiter in top. The 600 winds out, eventually.

That said, the 600 is almost always a more rewarding ride. You feel like your really on it, the 600 can also carry high corner speed (mid corner), and a good rider on a 600 will always outride an average rider on a thou.

I am faster on a 750, than on the thou.

Buy the best, lowest mileage bike you can find. Buy it off an older guy, or a sensible chick. Don't buy the cheapest, by the time you replace a pair of rotors, pads, chain etc, then the top dollar bike with lower mileage and service history is always the better buy.

The thou is like being addicted to Crack. There are 12 step programmes for drug addiction. There are no 12 steps for recovery from a thou.

[ital916]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=211542108

Have a look at this one

the same tm user has an sxv450 *or was it 550* with road trim and low ks going for 8 grand, he says he bought it a year ago for 17 grand. Now he has this bike, my too good to be true o meter would be going off if I was looking seriously at this bike and I would be approaching it with suspicion. It could be all good but then again it might be too good to be true.

[MSTRS]

Hi,

The time has come to upgrade ... an R1 or GSXR 1000 ...
Words of wisdom welcome

(I have ridden various liter+ bikes, so I don't need the "buy a smaller bike first" lecture thanks :innocent: )

Been thinking about this, no lecture, but I'm asking myself why you want to jump from a light, albeit quite responsive 2 smoker, to a high-HP rocket? What sort of riding do you do that would necessitate this sort of jump?

[javawocky]

First: madbikeboy Thanks for the great insite - sounds like the kind of person I want bike hunting with..

madbikeboy: Well, now, take a seat, get a cup of coffee and I will tell you a tail...

When pops had enough cash to pay for the deposit on an MX bike, we went off racing. I remember my first ride on the Suzuki RM80 like it was yesterday. It still had some Methanol in the tank before we converted it to petrol (80's fuel shortage in South Africa). Wish I had a picture of my face the first time it hit powerband and I held on for dear life - blown away.

Raced for a few years till the family ran into hard finances and the bike (KX125 then) was sold. Had a Kawasaki AE50 (http://www.50cc-motorcycles.com/pictures/kawasaki/ae50-1.jpg) for a few months during high school which eventually blew a big end.

Fast forward many years to me living in NZ and literally dreaming of my MX days. So I decided to get my bike license when a got a little money together for a bike.

As a kid I always wanted an RG50. The full faring the race bread performance - ahh, but it was way too expensive, so when looking around for a learner bike saw the RG150 and was sold.

Still got it today and love riding it. Excellent handling nimble as, and enough power to be fun - and its a 2-smoker :scooter:

Few months after I started riding a work mate let me take his Bandit 1200 loan bike for a test ride. Woah, torque torque torque. Like on my first MX bike I was blown away - I could hardly hold on to the bars it pulled so hard. After the ride I said to the guy - "You bugger! You have now ruened me for smaller bikes!"

Leter I test road a ZXR900 which wasn't as torquey but still was a rocket - a bit of a pain in the turning circle though.

Another work mate gave me a ride on his zzr1100 which he was selling. What a wonderful ride that was. Smooth - ultra powerful and was the fast colour red. Wish I had the cash then to buy it...

More recently I tested a k7 GSXR600 - I am not tall but I immidiatly felt uncomfortable as my head protruded too far forward. The bike felt too short. I took the bike out on the motorway and started to soften to it. It handled extreamly well, felt like it was stuck to the road and was more than fast enough, but it lacks that rocket effect that liter bikes have availible at the slightest rist twist in any gear.

My concultion on the 600 front was - seriously good ride, would be spectacular for the track, but the high reving would annoy on longer rides.

Later that day I took a K4 GSXR1000 for a test. As soon as I sat on the bike I though - now that's more like it! The bars well spaced and I felt like I had a bit of room. Took the bike out - stalled it at the first set of lights and felt like an idiot :Oops: - Turned onto the motorway on ramp which had two lanes - right lane had about 4 cars on it, left lane was seamed clear. Gently twisted on the gas flying past two cars then saw the rest of the lane was open so pushed it a little more (plenty of room I promise :P ) and entered the motorway shouting "Woo hooo!" in my helmet.

Reluctantly gave the bike back to the dealer with a big smile on my face.

Right, back to the question at hand - I haven't completly rulled out the 600 sports bike category yet, I might still be tempted. I am sure I will also be happy as with one as well, but having riden a 1000 its hard to go back.

The insaine part is that 98% of the time I will be riding it to work and back which is a 7km ride through North Shore traffic - unless I get up earlier. The 600 would be more than fine for this, but I like the option of just twisting my right hand just a little to get past, and when I do go for the weekend ride I want to be able to crues without feeling the bike working too hard.

That's my story and I am sticking to it :sweatdrop

[madbikeboy]

Okay, some thoughts.

If you're using the bike to commute, even part time, I'd suggest the 600. Now, for the same year, the cockpit of a GSXR6/750/1000 is pretty similar, as the years go by, they get smaller, with less fairing etc. Now, the reason I'd suggest the 600 is that you'll get 8,000k's out of a rear tire. I get anywhere between 800-1800 k's per rear. Or a trackday. I have had a worst of 400 with a Pirelli Diablo that ended up delaminating. The fuel consumption of the 1000 is about that of thirsty elephant.

The 600 is easier to point in traffic, it turns better in the wet, and the insurance is going to be significantly cheaper (seriously, try getting insurance for a thou with years of perfect ownership, and it's expensive). You'll also enjoy the bike more for rides, and for trackdays.

Honestly, it's a big jump from a ZZR11, big bandit, or whatever to a GSXR1000/R1/Blade?ZX10R. The difference isn't in the HP, it's in how much less time you have to do the absolute correct thing when shit happens or when the torque turns from grip to squirm.

The 600 is 40% of the running costs, 110% of the fun, 900% of the learning experience - all for about 95% of the performance.

Let me put this in perspective, I've been riding a week or two, I own three large displacement bikes, I've owned all sorts of stuff. I've got a k5 GSXR600 for track days/racing - it's easier to ride on the limit, and I enjoy it more. The thou is less fun. Try riding one in the wet, on shagged tires (which you will unless you can afford a new one every 8 weeks). The California SuperBike School use 600's. The lap record at the Nurburgring is 7.17, held by a GSXR600. That's about 10 seconds faster than a thou...

So, look for a k4/5 600 or 750, still a bit larger physically - and they're cheap as cheaps, so you'll get a good one for your money.


Edit: My thou gives me a rush that I can't find anywhere else. But you know what, I'm parking it up more and more lately, and I'm digging my CBX out instead. I know I've pushed my luck too far.

[javawocky]

madbikeboy you are starting to bring some sanity :not:

[MSTRS]

madbikeboy you are starting to bring some sanity :not:

Good. On another note, if it's performance coupled with torque you are after, why not a 750. With about 140hp available, waaaay more torque than a 600, but without the mad, tyre-eating craziness of a thou...a 750 is the perfect 'compromise'. Well set-up and ridden smoothly, they are a lovely weapon and not too hard on the wallet. I'm not a maniac or complete nana, but I just got 18,000kms!!! from a set of PilotRoad2s.

[vgcspares]

just a small point but 40,000kms is only 25,000 miles in real money

UK dispatcher Andy Utting's 1992 Trident did 250,000 miles with no major engine work (just discs, pads, tires, chains etc) AND REGULAR OIL CHANGES

[MSTRS]

just a small point but 40,000kms is only 25,000 miles in real money



Mileage total is often irrelevant...I'd always look more favourably at a high-mileage compared to low mileage (depending on age of course). 6 or 7 kms twice a day will kill an engine quicker than 500kms every w/e. If you can be sure that is how the miles were added, of course.

[vgcspares]

funnily enough bikes with 500kms done on sunny Sundays don't tend to last as long given the owners' more limited riding skills ... but I suppose that's not the bike's fault eh ?

[BMWST?]

its not about the power,its the torque....
th thou has 80 ft lbs at 9500 rpm(2005 model)
the 750 ONLY has 55 at 12000(2006 model)

which one is gonna be the instant hit at ANY revs,,,,

[MSTRS]

Geez...don't encourage him...we were just starting to make headway too:sweatdrop

[javawocky]

torque torque Muahahah!

No seriously I am going to test some other 600's and perhaps 750's if they are in the price range.

The cost of tyres is kind of cooling more of the 1000's for the moment.

The other factor I failed to mention however is that I will occasionally be putting the wife on the back. A 1000 will be happier than a 600 and so will the wife if its a bigger older model ;) - saw the recent post about pillion's on sports bikes.

[nallac]

The cost of tyres is kind of cooling more of the 1000's for the moment.
all depends on how you ride and what tyres.
for me its the economy thats a killer

The other factor I failed to mention however is that I will occasionally be putting the wife on the back. A 1000 will be happier than a 600 and so will the wife if its a bigger older model ;) - saw the recent post about pillion's on sports bikes.
even the older bikes such as my 99R1 aren't really that pillon friendly(says the wifey)

[caseye]

I'd been away from riding for 15 yrs, I came back about 18 months ago, I bought an old (1981) XV jam jar.
Shes the bees knees, lazy on the throttle but pulls all day.Takes a load and doesn't grumble, is used for going to and from work most days and weekend jaunts almost every chance.
I'm nowhere as quick as the big boys but I arrive everytime and only minutes behind them, my new tires went on about 3 months ago and they're showing no signs of wear yet, I've done about 5000 K in that time.
Maintenance, well i regularly have her serviced and anything that needs doing is done, never misses a beat, sounds great, ride well, perhaps this is another option for you.
I put in 19.8 Litres of juice and I get over 300K's, long as I use reserve and stop at a gasy before I've travelled another 50 or so K's.
Listen to the old hands, they really are trying to help.

[dilz]

my k4 is mint,i hav had no problems with it,i brought it with around 38000 on the clock and i just cant stop riding it so it up over 47 now damit!
i change the oil all the time,always warm her up before reving it past 4000 and i love it to pieces! i could tel the two previous owners loved it too because of the condition of the bike with that amount of k's on it.just check it over well as ya can and you should be sweet as mate,plenty of good cheapish thous out there...go the gsxr ha ha ahhhh:dodge:

[MSTRS]

The other factor I failed to mention however is that I will occasionally be putting the wife on the back. A 1000 will be happier than a 600 and so will the wife if its a bigger older model ;) - saw the recent post about pillion's on sports bikes.

Don't let your wife read that...
Seriously though, if your wife needs a modicum of comfort, then no modern Sprotbike will do. You need either a SportTourer, or a much older Sprotbike - pre-mid 90s.

[madbikeboy]

torque torque Muahahah!

No seriously I am going to test some other 600's and perhaps 750's if they are in the price range.

The cost of tyres is kind of cooling more of the 1000's for the moment.

The other factor I failed to mention however is that I will occasionally be putting the wife on the back. A 1000 will be happier than a 600 and so will the wife if its a bigger older model ;) - saw the recent post about pillion's on sports bikes.

The 750 is the best of the bunch. But you pay more for them. I'd choose the K5 750 anniversary model. It looks dated in comparison to the new one, but it's 99.9% of the bike, but more comfortable.

I put my mate Nikki on the back of my gixer - it's not the most comfortable place to be. Ride smooth and safe, and you'll be fine. Be a hero, and you'll scare the hell out of her, and probably never get laid again.

The 600 has 100hp +, still more than enough to carry a pillion.

As for the BMW having torque, yep, true enough. But after the fat torque curve, they run out of breath.... torque x RPM = better than sex (almost)

[javawocky]

Wouldn't mind a 750, but I only like the newer model GSXR's which are out of the price range.

..now I know where all the rubbers goes on the liter bikes - if you ride like this..

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[Madmax]

what about a ZX7R still one of my Fav bikes
enough power, good front end
look good too

:Pokey:

[javawocky]

Trying to get something a little newer, something along the lines of... http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=204548240

[madbikeboy]

The ZX6R is a neat bike. For a Kamakaze.

[madbikeboy]

[QUOTE=javawocky;2029468]Wouldn't mind a 750, but I only like the newer model GSXR's which are out of the price range.

..now I know where all the rubbers goes on the liter bikes - if you ride like this..

QUOTE]

Yeah, they can ride - but there's a certain inevitability with riding like this. Oncoming traffic, blind overtakes, backing it into blind corners, and wheelspinning out of corners with traffic coming...

Here's a thought for you. I would lay money that a good rider on a 600 would be faster than both of them... I own both before you say anything, but on that road, the 600 would find drive, where the 1000 would be leaving 2 inch wide black strips...

[javawocky]

a good rider on a 600 would be faster than both of them
I hear ya. When I road the 600 GSXR I felt it would be super quick around a track.

Riding my RG to work earlier than usual to avoid the traffic this morning I realised again where the fun for riding comes in for me - revving it out, breaking hard, throwing it into the corner and powering out as soon as possible for the next corner.

The twisties seam far more fun than riding at high[er] speed[s]. I am too level headed to go fast on the road, I always see things that can stop me quickly - like street lights, other cars, cheese greeter etc. and I tap off. It keeps me alive.

[madbikeboy]

I hear ya. When I road the 600 GSXR I felt it would be super quick around a track.

Riding my RG to work earlier than usual to avoid the traffic this morning I realised again where the fun for riding comes in for me - revving it out, breaking hard, throwing it into the corner and powering out as soon as possible for the next corner.

The twisties seam far more fun than riding at high[er] speed[s]. I am too level headed to go fast on the road, I always see things that can stop me quickly - like street lights, other cars, cheese greeter etc. and I tap off. It keeps me alive.

Okay, we've given you a possible conclusion. Buy a GSXR600, use it on the road and on track days. I like the twisties, but I also like the rush of the 180mph plus club (on the track).

[BMWST?]

The 750 is the best of the bunch. But you pay more for them. I'd choose the K5 750 anniversary model. It looks dated in comparison to the new one, but it's 99.9% of the bike, but more comfortable.

I put my mate Nikki on the back of my gixer - it's not the most comfortable place to be. Ride smooth and safe, and you'll be fine. Be a hero, and you'll scare the hell out of her, and probably never get laid again.

The 600 has 100hp +, still more than enough to carry a pillion.

As for the BMW having torque, yep, true enough. But after the fat torque curve, they run out of breath.... torque x RPM = better than sex (almost)

BMW having torque? I said the gsxr 1000 has torque 80 vs 55 for the gsxr750 at much lower revs...

[javawocky]

...rush of the 180mph plus club (on the track)

I'm too much of a wimp to be part of that club :baby: - maybe after my riding skills improve and a few track days, so will most likely be 600/750 shopping.

This is plenty too fast for me....
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