How much throttle?

[vifferman]

I've been feedleen about wit' my Powah Commando lately, and so need to take note of throttle position vs. RPM. It struck me that in normal use, I never need to use more than a wee bit of throttle, even accelerating hard. Occasionally I might use half throttle, but that'd be about it. Any more'n that, and I'd be in danger of unnecessary acceleration or grossly excessive speed.
I found it was actually hard work to try and use more throttle than about a quarter turn (even thought there's no freeplay in the throttle, and it's a fairly quick acting one). Extra twisting didn't make it go much faster, just resulted in much more intake noise.

It's kinda silly, innit? All that throttle to play with, and most of it unusuble, except maybe on the track or dyno (where they seem to tune bikes at full throttle through the gears, whereas in the RealWorld, probably no-one uses it).

So what about you (if you ride a bike over say, 600cc)? How much would you twist the throttle during a normal ride?

[Swoop]

I like intake noise.
But normal pootlin' would only see a third(ish) used.
But the stop is there to be used as well.:crazy:

[98tls]

Hear what your saying,i long ago fitted a 1/5th throttle insert,of all the stuff ive done to my old TL it is without doubt the best bang for buck mod ever.;)

[slofox]

Funny you should bring this up - I was musing along the same lines just recently....

Have never actually measured how much twist I give it but I do know it is not that much...certainly no where near all the way round.

[Blackshear]

To the stop :whistle:

[javawocky]

You should try my RG some day - the throttle has only two possitions - off and on all the way - got to love 2-smokers :second:

[Hitcher]

Unless I'm mistaken, my throttle only has 90 degrees of movement.

[AllanB]

Have never actually measured how much twist I give it but I do know it is not that much...certainly no where near all the way round.

Easy to do and I've recently done it.

Just put a dab of paint on the throttle grip and a corresponding dab on the switch housing in the closed position. Open the throttle wide (engine off) and apply a corresponding dab on the switch block. A pin head dab is all that's necessary.

Go for a ride, the distance between the marks on the switch block from closed to fully open and the relative position of the paint on the throttle grip is how much throttle you are using.

Cruising at the open road speed limit my Hornet is using f-all throttle.

[cowpoos]

Extra twisting didn't make it go much faster, just resulted in much more intake noise.

err...this should be obvious dude...you have a honda :whistle:

[madbikeboy]

Interesting thought. With Scoot, you can't open the throttle all the way in the first two gears for long (ohh-ayy, up she rises, ohh-ayy, up she rises, what can do with the dunken sailor...).

I can get to about quarter open in said gears with babelicious pillion on the bitch pad.

On the track, it's different, WFO through the gears down the straights.

Here's an interesting thought for you, Viff. I rode a SuperDuke (with the honest intention of buying it), but the throttle control was nigh on impossible to modulate. V-twin shunt plus a hair trigger made it horrid.

So, here's the thought - I prefer a bike with excellent and progressive throttle response over just about anything else. Am I the only one (Obi Wan). My logic is that throttle control is one of the single most important variables when you're leaned over on the limit (on the track), or riding around in the wet (diesel slick) Auckland roads...

[madbikeboy]

You should try my RG some day - the throttle has only two possitions - off and on all the way - got to love 2-smokers :second:

Funny, I have a mate who rides a ZX7R the same way...

[Ixion]

I don't use the throttle. That makes you speed, and speed kills, (this I know, because the gubbermint tells me so). I just ride everywhere on idle. If I do need to go a *little* faster (taking great care not to speed of course), I just wind the idle speed adjuster up. The BMW has a convenient cold start lever which increases idle speed.

[vifferman]

To the stop :whistle:
:rolleyes:
Why do you think I said "over 600cc"? I've owned a 175, 250 and two 500s, so I know how much throttle a smaller bike requires. It's actually not very good for learning throttle control.

You should try my RG some day - the throttle has only two possitions - off and on all the way - got to love 2-smokers :second:
See above.


Just put a dab of paint on the throttle grip and a corresponding dab on the switch housing in the closed position.
I've had a thin silver line on the twist grip and several pencil marks on the switchblock for ages now. (They weren't as easily removed as I thought. :Doh: )

err...this should be obvious dude...you have a honda :whistle:
Thanks for that helpful remark. I did actually notice the brand of bike I was riding.
Not that it was hard - I've only ever owned Hondas.


I prefer a bike with excellent and progressive throttle response over just about anything else.
That's why there's no slack in my throttle cables, and the O2 sensors have been disabled.
Even so, the VFR can still be somewhat 'twitchy'. Luckily it has only a poofteenth of the power of a GSXRRRR1000RRRR. ;)

[McWild]

You should try my RG some day - the throttle has only two possitions - off and on all the way - got to love 2-smokers :second:

Yeah if you're not riding at the redline you're not really riding at all.

[driftn]

I can not help my self but to get the thou WFO man. Silly thing to do as you are going much faster than the law will permit in the 2nd cog (on one wheel for that matter). whats even more fun is bump it in to 3rd and you are doing twice the legal limit on one wheel although not at full throttle.

Moral of the story is if you buy a big bike and are not going to use the full extent of the throttle then whats the point? they are designed to go fast and fast they shall go. Very F@#ken fast.

Keep it pinned man.

[vifferman]

Moral of the story is if you buy a big bike and are not going to use the full extent of the throttle then whats the point?
Oh, I know the answer to that one.
The point is, it makes for fairly effortless riding. Same as a bigger, more powerful car is less tiring on a long trip than a small gutless one.

[naphazoline]

I've been feedleen about wit' my Powah Commando lately, and so need to take note of throttle position vs. RPM. It struck me that in normal use, I never need to use more than a wee bit of throttle, even accelerating hard. Occasionally I might use half throttle, but that'd be about it. Any more'n that, and I'd be in danger of unnecessary acceleration or grossly excessive speed.
I found it was actually hard work to try and use more throttle than about a quarter turn (even thought there's no freeplay in the throttle, and it's a fairly quick acting one). Extra twisting didn't make it go much faster, just resulted in much more intake noise.

It's kinda silly, innit? All that throttle to play with, and most of it unusuble, except maybe on the track or dyno (where they seem to tune bikes at full throttle through the gears, whereas in the RealWorld, probably no-one uses it).

So what about you (if you ride a bike over say, 600cc)? How much would you twist the throttle during a normal ride?


Do you have a USB III p/c ?

If so,you could try downloading the "accelerator pump" mod,and use it to tame your throttle,so you can use more of it.

Just a thought.
Can't say i've tried it myself.Instead,i boosted it at 75% open throttle,by 15% percent more fuel,over every 20rpm.Nice little boost.Occasionally.Lol.

[vifferman]

Do you have a USB III p/c ?
Nup - PCII.
I was running a map for a while that boosted fuel AND advanced the ignition slightly at higher revs and large throttle openings, so I had to run 98 octane fuel. In the couple of years I ran it, I don't think I ever got to try it out.
Now back to 91 and a more 'normal' map.

[naphazoline]

Nup - PCII.
I was running a map for a while that boosted fuel AND advanced the ignition slightly at higher revs and large throttle openings, so I had to run 98 octane fuel. In the couple of years I ran it, I don't think I ever got to try it out.
Now back to 91 and a more 'normal' map.

Bugger. I thought i might have had ya a cheap fix. Sorry

[ducatilover]

Silly question sorry, why have you got the 02 sensors disabled mate? :eek5:

[vifferman]

Silly question sorry, why have you got the 02 sensors disabled mate? :eek5:
It's because when they aren't disabled, the bike runs in "Closed loop mode", when at constant small throttle openings. This is ultra lean, so results in the bike having a slight lean surge. That's OK, but when you open the throttle, there's a very slight but noticeable hesitation as the ECU/EFI switches from closed loop to mapped mode. If you're going around a sharp, slow speed corner, you get a slight hesitation which is annoying at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. You can get round this with clever clutch work, but it's ferkinannoying.
However, if you unplug the O2 sensors, and fit 330ohm resistors across the leads of the plugs, the ECU doesn't bother using 'closed loop' mode at all.

Also (plus!) if you fit a PCII, PCIII, or PCIII9USB), you really need to disable the oxygen sensors to get the most benefit, otherwise the PC and ECU are interfering with one another at small throttle openings.

In most conditions, the bike runs better without the O2 sensors, with or without a PC fitted. It has a slight 'bogginess' taking off from standstill without the PC, but otherwise it's fine. With the PC, you just adjust the map (or the buttons) to tune it for whatever pipe/airfilter/fuel you're running.

[ducatilover]

It's because when they aren't disabled, the bike runs in "Closed loop mode", when at constant small throttle openings. This is ultra lean, so results in the bike having a slight lean surge. That's OK, but when you open the throttle, there's a very slight but noticeable hesitation as the ECU/EFI switches from closed loop to mapped mode. If you're going around a sharp, slow speed corner, you get a slight hesitation which is annoying at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. You can get round this with clever clutch work, but it's ferkinannoying.
However, if you unplug the O2 sensors, and fit 330ohm resistors across the leads of the plugs, the ECU doesn't bother using 'closed loop' mode at all.

Also (plus!) if you fit a PCII, PCIII, or PCIII9USB), you really need to disable the oxygen sensors to get the most benefit, otherwise the PC and ECU are interfering with one another at small throttle openings.

In most conditions, the bike runs better without the O2 sensors, with or without a PC fitted. It has a slight 'bogginess' taking off from standstill without the PC, but otherwise it's fine. With the PC, you just adjust the map (or the buttons) to tune it for whatever pipe/airfilter/fuel you're running.Ah that makes sense, I was assuming you just had them disconnected without running any sort of 02 signal. I could see quite fun problems arising from this. why not have some lovely little rheostats in place of the o2s? this could ensure you can dial in what ever setting the ecu and pc want to see:2thumbsup

[Drew]

Most the time on the road, I have no idea, usually open it wide to do wheelies, and I do that a lot.

On the track, I generally try to twist it past the stop, and wish whatever I'm on was quicker. Bit different on the new thou but, that bad ass tends to lift the wheel in fourth off the pipe, so less throttle is best.

[vifferman]

why not have some lovely little rheostats in place of the o2s? this could ensure you can dial in what ever setting the ecu and pc want to see:2thumbsup
That's been thought of (for Ducatis, at least (http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/fat-duc-o2-sensor-manipulator/)), but apparently isn't an option for VFRs (or else no-one knows what sort of resistance would be appropriate, or isn't saying.)
There are other things that work or help out, like increasing the fuel pressure via an aftermarket FPR, or fitting one of these (http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49353).

[naphazoline]

....... there's a very slight but noticeable hesitation as the ECU/EFI switches from closed loop to mapped mode. If you're going around a sharp, slow speed corner, you get a slight hesitation which is annoying at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. You can get round this with clever clutch work, but it's ferkinannoying.
However, if you unplug the O2 sensors, and fit 330ohm resistors across the leads of the plugs, the ECU doesn't bother using 'closed loop' mode at all.

Also (plus!) if you fit a PCII, PCIII, or PCIII9USB), you really need to disable the oxygen sensors to get the most benefit, otherwise the PC and ECU are interfering with one another at small throttle openings.

I have this snatchy surge problem with my 06 1000rr.I have gone down one tooth,to a 15 tooth sprocket on the front,and it has tamed it down quite a bit,but i have yet to get her custom mapped,and i want to sort out the cat' removal,block the PAIR,and disable the O2 sensor.

How hard/expensive is it to disable the sensor,and fit the 330 ohm resistors?

I'm not much of a DIY'er.:(

[CookMySock]

If you're going around a sharp, slow speed corner, you get a slight hesitation which is annoying at best, and potentially dangerous at worst. You can get round this with clever clutch work, but it's ferkinannoying.Right. You would think with a computer in the thing they might program it so it didn't DO shit like this. Like, EFI is supposed to be BETTER than carbs innit? :pinch: Why isn't "better" actually better?

edit: oh, in answer to the question: I idle around at quarter throttle or less, blap it at half throttle to around half revvs (it's a vtwin) depending on how I feel, and overtake on the open road usually at full-throttle and 3/4 revvs.

Steve

[cowpoos]

It's because when they aren't disabled, the bike runs in "Closed loop mode", when at constant small throttle openings. This is ultra lean, so results in the bike having a slight lean surge. That's OK, but when you open the throttle, there's a very slight but noticeable hesitation as the ECU/EFI switches from closed loop to mapped mode.

Errr.....how many throttle butter flys does your bike have per cylinder dude?