ANZAC Day but...

[MadDuck]

I have heaps of respect for those that went to war for us but my grandfather was in the Merchant Navy serving in Egypt to name just a few countries and he was never allowed to join the RSA.

As a very young chick I remember going with him to try and join the RSA and they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads. Said he was not part of the war. So I dont buy poppies out of my respect of my ole pop.

Comments?

[Motu]

My grandfather was a Conscientious Objector - he got white feathers in the mail.I come from a long line of Hippies.

[Hans]

My grandfather was a Conscientious Objector - he got white feathers in the mail.I come from a long line of Hippies.

Which of course shows the great bravery of those who mailed them. I'm sure those feathers were sent straight from the frontline and not, say, from the local post office.

[Marknz]

I have heaps of respect for those that went to war for us but my grandfather was in the Merchant Navy serving in Egypt to name just a few countries and he was never allowed to join the RSA.

As a very young chick I remember going with him to try and join the RSA and they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads. Said he was not part of the war. So I dont buy poppies out of my respect of my ole pop.

Comments?

I have complete and utter respect for any man or woman who has ever gone to a war zone to help ensure that we can live the life we lead. I don't care if they're Army, Navy, Air Force, Merchant Navy, civilian staffers or what... they should all be recognised and thanked for their efforts.

[CookMySock]

The whole point of the war was so that you and I can still voice our opinion publicly, and stand up for what we beleive in. Without the war, we might not have that now.

So you make sure you do that. None of us are 'wrong' - we are just all different and diverse - celebrate it!


Steve

[Solly]

I have heaps of respect for those that went to war for us but my grandfather was in the Merchant Navy serving in Egypt to name just a few countries and he was never allowed to join the RSA.

As a very young chick I remember going with him to try and join the RSA and they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads. Said he was not part of the war. So I dont buy poppies out of my respect of my ole pop.

Comments?

Agree with you MD, any effort during the war should be recognised.......I do still buy poppies, as in my opinion, the respect I pay are to the soldiers who fought for our freedom and not to the organisations weighed down in "red tape & politics".
Respect to your "ole pop" and all those like him.

[Maha]

I have heaps of respect for those that went to war for us but my grandfather was in the Merchant Navy serving in Egypt to name just a few countries and he was never allowed to join the RSA.

As a very young chick I remember going with him to try and join the RSA and they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads. Said he was not part of the war. So I dont buy poppies out of my respect of my ole pop.

Comments?

That should be...Duckling??

[Number One]

My grandfather was a Conscientious Objector - he got white feathers in the mail.I come from a long line of Hippies.
So was my grandfather that's why he could never return to his homeland of Bulgaria. Apparently he would have been arrested on return because of it. He wasn't much of a hippy though - pity - he might've been a nicer guy to be around and treated his women and kids with a little more respect.

I buy poppies. My dad is a military man and though he wasn't involved he had links with many that were. For me it is about recognising those that gave their lives and even those that may yet give their lives in service....I'm a hippy so I wouldn't do it

[pzkpfw]

Maybe it's changed? Numbers are thinning out, so they might have changed policy. (Obviously too late for many, in any case).

A merchant marine in an unarmed boat crossing dangerous seas deserves our respect. And anyway, who got the food and amunition to the troops.

Anyone who felt the sharp end of a U-boat certainly saw the war close up.

[Oakie]

Maybe it's changed? Numbers are thinning out, so they might have changed policy. (Obviously too late for many, in any case).

A merchant marine in an unarmed boat crossing dangerous seas deserves our respect. And anyway, who got the food and amunition to the troops.

Anyone who felt the sharp end of a U-boat certainly saw the war close up.

Exactly my thoughts. They were in the line of fire as surely as any front line soldier was but with no means to fight back or even hide. Much respect.

[James Deuce]

My Grandfather was Merchant Navy prior to WWII. He joined the RN at the outbreak of war and finished up in Special Forces in SEA. He transferred to the RNZN past war and he never once set foot in an RSA because of their policy toward Merchant seamen.

He only turned up to one RSA Parade when he was presented with a George Medal replica (along with all the other Malta convoy participants) by the Maltese Government to mark the 50th anniversary of Operation Pedestal. 4 of 15 Merchant Navy supply ships made it to Valetta harbour.

His argument was that the Merchant Navy began operating on a war footing in 1937, when they made relief runs to the South of Spain to supply displaced Spanish civilians (he had other things to say about how those sailors treated refugee Spanish women) and so had at least 2 years experience of operating in a war zone prior to WWII starting. A merchant Navy sailor killed in battle is just as dead as an RN sailor killed in battle and swabbies in either service had about as much control over their own fate as each other. No point discriminating over uniforms.

I went to Anzac Day parades when I was in Boy's Brigade (not cool, eh, but lots of fun irrespective of innuendo) until an aged Charles Upham started taking the piss at the Domain one dawn parade during his "review".

[Jantar]

...they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads......
Reminds me of when Earnst Peters tried to join the RSA. He flew combat missions in the final months of the war in Europe, but when he applied to join the RSA he was refused simply because he happened to be in a Focke Wulf rather than a spitfire.

[FROSTY]

My grandfather was a Conscientious Objector - he got white feathers in the mail.I come from a long line of Hippies.
MY GOSH--you mean even back then people were hiding behind pseuonyms--go figure

[NZ CBR]

Buying Poppies or not I feel ANZAC Day is about remembering and respecting all who have gone before us and helped to get us what we take for granted today.

As an ex Army per, Anzac day is huge deal and always a time to remember close mates who past whilst I was serving.

I dont think Ansac should be just for those who where in the war, not forgeting that they are a HUGE part, but knowing how how much the wives etc at home help, they should not be disregarded.

What ever you are doing, Take some time to think what it means for you.

Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning. We will remember them.

[MadDuck]

he never once set foot in an RSA because of their policy toward Merchant seamen.

I guess I never really understood and still dont why that policy existed.

I have pops discharge papers and payment books which to me as an average person made me think he was actually part of the war. Oh and the stories he used to tell :clap:

What a proud man he was!

[Motu]

MY GOSH--you mean even back then people were hiding behind pseuonyms--go figure

He never hid from anything....which is the whole point of standing up and objecting.Being different back then was not the same as having a funny haircut these days.

[Maha]

I have heaps of respect for those that went to war for us but my grandfather was in the Merchant Navy serving in Egypt to name just a few countries and he was never allowed to join the RSA.

As a very young chick I remember going with him to try and join the RSA and they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads. Said he was not part of the war. So I dont buy poppies out of my respect of my ole pop.

Comments?

My Uncle served in the Merchant Navy, he was on the 'Black Prince' (see link below) and was at the Coronation in 53'...they helped out in Malta after some earthquake. A Captain of the Black Prince lives at Snells beach, well he did a few years ago, a bloke that I worked for out there also served on the Black Prince and told me a few stories about his time on the ship.

http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.navymuseum.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/bf64d6c4-cf13-4236-bb05-3970742ef0a9/0/aam0048blackprinceenteringgrandharbourmalta1953.jp g&imgrefurl=http://www.navymuseum.mil.nz/history/time/post-ww2/black-prince.htm&usg=__EQDBj7IPA7fa0DvmcMqafNEypMc=&h=363&w=530&sz=57&hl=en&start=28&tbnid=7zUQgnQq0zVZqM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dblack%2Bprince%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20% 26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20

[98tls]

Always make a point of getting up and heading down there early in the morning to pay my respects,hell my familys German,makes no difference,respect to all that suffered through such things even the poor mothers and wives left behind at home to wait,must have been hell for them to.

[James Deuce]

My Uncle served in the Merchant Navy, he was on the 'Black Prince' (see link below) and was at the Coronation in 53'...they helped out in Malta after some earthquake. A Captain of the Black Prince lives at Snells beach, well he did a few years ago, a bloke that I worked for out there also served on the Black Prince and told me a few stories about his time on the ship.

http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://www.navymuseum.mil.nz/nr/rdonlyres/bf64d6c4-cf13-4236-bb05-3970742ef0a9/0/aam0048blackprinceenteringgrandharbourmalta1953.jp g&imgrefurl=http://www.navymuseum.mil.nz/history/time/post-ww2/black-prince.htm&usg=__EQDBj7IPA7fa0DvmcMqafNEypMc=&h=363&w=530&sz=57&hl=en&start=28&tbnid=7zUQgnQq0zVZqM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=132&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dblack%2Bprince%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20% 26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20

My Grandfather was on the Cadre crew that brought the Black Prince and Royalist out to NZ.

[MadDuck]

Thanks guys. I am not up with where "pop" was but now feel I need to find out.

[Maha]

My Grandfather was on the Cadre crew that brought the Black Prince and Royalist out to NZ.

I am reading heaps about it on google tonight....real cool stuff.


Thanks guys. I am not up with where "pop" was but now feel I need to find out.


Yeah find Ducker....its cool shit to know.
The guy out at snells has the polihsed wooden sign of the ship...gold letters and all, Black Prince.
My uncle has a few photos of his time on the ship.....

One story I was told, they were parked up somewhere and a close relation of the Queen was on board drinking rum with the boys/dancing on the tables and a small Royal Navy boat came along side, they boarded the ship and took her away...naughty naughty tut tut...:clap:

[MadDuck]

I have a heap of photos of my male relatives and no idea who they are. A lot in military uniform. Ended up wth them after mum died and cant quite bring myself to chuck them out.

Seems a shame that when I go the photos go and so does the history.

[Maha]

I have a heap of photos of my male relatives and no idea who they are. A lot in military uniform. Ended up wth them after mum died and cant quite bring myself to chuck them out.

Seems a shame that when I go the photos go and so does the history.

I have some here also...Mum gave them to me..
One cool photo (I should scan it) shows my grandfathers father (i think) leaning on a bar with some other dude...dont know what war, cant explain the photos that well, they have to be seen really. Buts its a part of who we are my dear.

[James Deuce]

I've just applied for a copy of the Granda's Seaman's record. He was born in 1919, but his record starts in 1913 and runs until 1972 when he stopped paying his dues. I think he did a fiddle to get his Dad's Royal Marine shipboard service attached to his record so it didn't get lost. I'll find out when I get the PDF I guess.

The book is starting to take shape.

[James Deuce]

You guys with photos should scan them and throw them in the Interdweeb. You'd be surprised at how many people have copies of the same photos and can identify people in the photos. You'll build up a picture really quickly, if you can associate at least one name with the photo.

[MadDuck]

Hmmm yes I have a photo of my rather sexy looking pop and an Italian lass. Maybe left in the past you think?

[MadDuck]

You guys with photos should scan them and throw them in the Interdweeb.

Is there a particular website?

[98tls]

My old lady has a heap of pretty interesting stuff from both sides of the fence,awhile back having a look through some of it i came across some pics taken aboard HMS Hood,bit off topic but the Navy comments reminded me of them,sad considering.

[MadDuck]

sad considering.

Not sure on the HMS Hood just seems a shame these photos and memories that we have may just be binned . What a damn waste

[98tls]

Not sure on the HMS Hood just seems a shame these photos and memories that we have may just be binned . What a damn waste http://www.warship.org/no21987.htm

[Winston001]

I have heaps of respect for those that went to war for us but my grandfather was in the Merchant Navy serving in Egypt to name just a few countries and he was never allowed to join the RSA.

As a very young chick I remember going with him to try and join the RSA and they said they didnt recognise the Merchant navy lads. Said he was not part of the war. So I dont buy poppies out of my respect of my ole pop.


I'm saddened to hear of this MD and agree with you. But so does the RSA. The policy changed 15 - 20 years ago to allow those such as your grandfather to join.

My father was branch president for 22 years. We had his funeral today, the Ode, Last Post, bagpipes skirling......it's been a tough day but uplifting as well. There aren't many old soldiers left and they all deserve our respect.

Apply to join the RSA

Membership applications are invited from adults of all ages, who are either citizens or permanent residents of New Zealand or another Commonwealth country.

Men and women who have served or are currently serving in the Armed Forces or the NZ Police force may apply for ‘Returned’ or ‘Service’ membership.

Men and women without military service are welcome to apply to join as ‘Associate’ members.

[98tls]

I'm saddened to hear of this MD and agree with you. But so does the RSA. The policy changed 15 - 20 years ago to allow those such as your grandfather to join.

My father was branch president for 22 years. We had his funeral today, the Ode, Last Post, bagpipes skirling......it's been a tough day but uplifting as well. There aren't many old soldiers left and they all deserve our respect.

Apply to join the RSA

Membership applications are invited from adults of all ages, who are either citizens or permanent residents of New Zealand or another Commonwealth country.

Men and women who have served or are currently serving in the Armed Forces or the NZ Police force may apply for ‘Returned’ or ‘Service’ membership.

Men and women without military service are welcome to apply to join as ‘Associate’ members.
Sorry to hear of your loss.

[MadDuck]

Thanks Winston and very sorry to hear of you dads passing. Very sorry indeed

By pop died quite a few years ago now and he was a bugger because he picked rememberance day to go. But ANZAC day always makes me proud to be his grand daughter.

The RSA was actually pretty horrid to him. When we went to see if he could become a member they told him he HAD to take his hat off. He had throat cancer and lost most of the side of his face. He was pretty self concious of this. All he wanted was to hang with some people from his generation and share stories.

He was the best man I ever knew. The RSA has only changed because the service men are all just about gone.

[Pussy]

Sorry for your loss, Winston, and respect to your Dad

[Maha]

You guys with photos should scan them and throw them in the Interdweeb. You'd be surprised at how many people have copies of the same photos and can identify people in the photos. You'll build up a picture really quickly, if you can associate at least one name with the photo.

The pic I have is of my Great Grandfather Henry, do not know where it was taken but I am sure its WW1.
Hes the one on the left.

[Maha]

http://www.warship.org/no21987.htm

The Hood?... sunk by the Bismarck on 24 May 1941.

Pic of the resting Bismarck in post above.


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[cc rider]

the Ode, Last Post, bagpipes skirling......

Respects to you & your family, Winston.

[klingon]

My Dad joined the Royal Navy (Before the RNZN existed) in 1942 and served on a flower-class corvette (the Lotus) escorting merchant navy convoys from St Johns, Newfoundland to Murmansk, Russia.

He never joined the RSA, even though he went on to serve in the occupation forces in Japan, and later fought in Korea so he certainly qualified to join if he wanted to. The day he died (in 2007) I joined the RSA.

Thinking about photos, after Dad died we scanned a lot of his old photos but because he spoke so rarely about his experiences we didn't know who a lot of the people werein the pics. Just recently I sent a copy of the photo below to the King Island Courier because I remembered Dad mentioning that the other guy in the photo came from "a small island north of Tasmania." Sure enough, the newspaper confirmed the identity of the man in the photo who is still alive and well at the age of 86. (I am attempting to contact him through his relatives.)

Left: My Dad Terry
Right: Harry from the tiny town of Pearshape, King Island.
Photo taken somewhere in Japan, 1946.

[Winston001]

Thanks for the sympathies everyone, appreciated. The RSA got it wrong in the past by denying membership to people whom they should have welcomed. They did realise that eventually but the harm was done. The RSL in Australia appears to have been more progressive.

[MadDuck]

I have spent the last week trying to find anything at all my my pop. It has become kind of a personal mission in a way.

The only register of Merchant Navy I can find are the ones lost at sea (RIP). I will continue my search so if anyone has any ideas or links or resources I would appreciate it.

[Lias]

Few pictures of family history.

[yungatart]

When I go to Anzac Parades, I think of all those men and women who fought/gave their lives in whatever capacity so that we could live as we do today.
I'm sure that is how it is for most people...my late uncle was in the Navy and had nothing but good things to say of the Merchant Navy, I guess I have just followed his lead.

Good Luck with your search MD!