Battery or not?

[BUNGY]

I know very little when it comes to the running of my bike so hopefully you guys can help.

A couple of days ago my bike wouldn't start. Had only been sitting in the garage a couple of days. Anyway crash started and was on my way. Started fine again the next time I tried. Then went to a mates last night and it started fine but then this afternoon the battery was flat again. A couple of minutes after crash starting again I turned on the lights and it died. Now about 5 minutes after getting home I tried to restart and the battery is still dead.

So my question is, is this likely to be a screwed battery or something like the alternator? Any help is appreciated.

[Ragingrob]

Sounds like more of a problem with the charging system side of things like the regulator or the such as opposed to a stuffed battery as it still starts fine sometimes.

Check that the terminals are screwed tightly on the battery, the slightest wobble of a wire and a bike may not start, so yeah check those battery terminals are nice and tight before anything else!

[TimeOut]

I know very little when it comes to the running of my bike so hopefully you guys can help.

A couple of days ago my bike wouldn't start. Had only been sitting in the garage a couple of days. Anyway crash started and was on my way. Started fine again the next time I tried. Then went to a mates last night and it started fine but then this afternoon the battery was flat again. A couple of minutes after crash starting again I turned on the lights and it died. Now about 5 minutes after getting home I tried to restart and the battery is still dead.

So my question is, is this likely to be a screwed battery or something like the alternator? Any help is appreciated.

Most likely battery, could be starter motor, regulator or alternator.

[TimeOut]

Do you know how old the battery is?

[BUNGY]

Do you know how old the battery is?

Wouldn't have a clue. I have had it for a little over a year so its at least that old. It did the same thing about 6 weeks ago. Wouldn't start after being off for on;y about 30 mins but after that has been fine until now. Dunno if that sheds anymore light on the situation.

[Ragingrob]

Seeing as it's temperamental I'd look towards either loose terminals or a dying reg/rec.

[BUNGY]

Thanks will check the terminals now

[elevenhundred]

Get yourself a multimeter, very handy tools to have.
Measure the voltage (DC) at the battery with the bike running, not sure about your particular bike but it should be reading around 13.5 volts when the revs are up. If it's lower check the voltage (AC) output of the alternator against the specs in the manual.
If the alternator readings are fine but the charging voltage is low it'll be your regulator/rectifier.
If the alternator readings are low then it's your alternator.
If both of these are fine then it will probably be your battery.

[Squiggles]

Charge it/replace the batt, then go from there.
I say this as you might have left the lights on, drained the batt to nearly empty...had to bump start. Short ride let it charge a bit so was fine for the starter the next time.

While the reg/rect or stator could be the cause, the battery is a cheaper place to start!

[Taz]

Does it have an alarm??

[BUNGY]

No alarm. Cant be the lights draining as they go off when the bikke is off. The only lights that can be on are park lights but that setting is past the steering lock which wasnt on

[BUNGY]

It also makes a loud sound from somewhere near the battery when you try and start it. Is that just the starter motor trying and failing to go?

[The Stranger]

Charge it/replace the batt, then go from there.
I say this as you might have left the lights on, drained the batt to nearly empty...had to bump start. Short ride let it charge a bit so was fine for the starter the next time.

While the reg/rect or stator could be the cause, the battery is a cheaper place to start!

That is some of the dumbest shit I have seen on KB - and that's saying something.

If the reg is fooked you could toast the new battery too. Why would you advocate this? Whilst you may think it funny to mislead people it is not funny when you tell them to waste thier money or should it put lives at risk.

Pull the battery and put it on a charger. Once charged, put it back in and run your headlight on full for 3 - 5 minutes then test the voltage. If it is around 12.5 or more the battery should be fine. Less than this and it is probably toast.
Next, check the voltage whilst running. It should be around 14 volts with a little rev and less at idle.
If the charging system seems fine, then it may well still be the battery. If the voltage is high on charge it is likely the regulator rectifier at fault, if low it may be the alternator. There are ways and means to check both with a multi meter.

NEVER assume that the battery just died of natural causes. Frequently it is the charging system that kills the battery and it is simple to test the charging system. Save yourself some money and test it BEFORE replacing the battery or you may just waste the new battery.

[TimeOut]

It also makes a loud sound from somewhere near the battery when you try and start it. Is that just the starter motor trying and failing to go?

Probably, could be low voltage or the brushes in the starter fooked and needing replaced (brushes can cause a click and nothing when the starter is pressed then the next attempt seem fine)

[Squiggles]

That is some of the dumbest shit I have seen on KB - and that's saying something.

If the reg is fooked you could toast the new battery too. Why would you advocate this? Whilst you may think it funny to mislead people it is not funny when you tell them to waste thier money or should it put lives at risk.


I dont find it funny for people to waste money, I actually put "cheaper" rather than "easier" by accident. (Shock horror, a mistake on the internetz! We must be insulting! :msn-wink:)

When it comes to the reg/rect; More often than not, they die intermittently, not outright. He's more than likely not going to know sfa more after a single testing session.
I'd charge the batt, and if its weak after a charge replace. Then wire up a multimeter and ride around with it connected, if it starts to under/overcharge you'll see it and be able to go from there.


Its quite possible he's done the park light thing, setting off all of this.
Edit: If checking the wiring, take a good look at the plug going into the reg/rect, they regularly end up charred if the unit is failing

[davereid]

Anyway crash started and was on my way. Started fine again the next time I tried. Then went to a mates last night and it started fine but then this afternoon the battery was flat again. A couple of minutes after crash starting again I turned on the lights and it died. Now about 5 minutes after getting home I tried to restart and the battery is still dead.

It's very likely to be a faulty battery, as suggested by Squiggles. This is because bump starting worked. If the alternator/rectifier/regulator was faulty, bump starting would be unlikely to work. As always with electrickery make sure the basic are good - tight earths, good connections etc.

As suggested by thestranger try charging it on the bench then reinstall it and see if it holds charge when re-installed in the bike.

A faulty regulator will cause a battery to overcharge and fail. But its not like blowing a fuse, its not an instant process.

Its quite safe to install a new battery, and run your bike while checking the charge voltage. If voltage at higher rpm gets much higher than 14.8 - 15.5 volts, your regulator is the culprit

If the voltage at higher RPM does not reach 14+ volts, and you have installed a new battery, you have a faulty (series) regulator, faulty rectifier or alternator.

It may be that this is the case, but as you bike bump starts, it would seem the charging circuit is alive and well.

[The Stranger]

I dont find it funny for people to waste money, I actually put "cheaper" rather than "easier" by accident. (Shock horror, a mistake on the internetz! We must be insulting! :msn-wink:)



Oh yeah, I see it now, a typo. What was I thinking.

A hint, next time you make a mistake on the internet, let me know in advance so I can be kind and sensitive ok sweetie.

[The Stranger]

Shock horror, a mistake on the internetz! We must be insulting!

Perhaps I should elaborate so as your sensitive wee soul doesn't think I am just randomly picking on you.

Yes you made a mistake on the Internet - a couple of them at least anyway in that post.
We are all human right, we all make mistakes, so what it's only the internet right?
Here's the thing, if your mistake costs someone $ is that ok?
If your mistake costs someone their life is that ok?
MISTAKES COST LIVES, they are NOT ok.

If you dispense advice you have a duty of care! Check and re-check your work BEFORE you post, not when someone points it out.

But - more importantly KNOW what you are talking about. Don't just think you know what you are talking about. Just because you did this one time before and it worked for you doesn't make it right for everyone in all cases.
If you are unsure - err on the safe side and - wait for it - SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Now that last part is real good advice, read it again.

So yeah, I get a little testy when nobs indiscriminately dispense stupid and/or dangerous advice. Because all they had to do in the first place was nothing and everyone would have been better off.

Remember, there really is NO need to open your mouth and remove all doubt, none at all.

[BUNGY]

Checked the battery. Hangs around 12.1 volts and goes up a little when reved.

[YellowDog]

All seems a bit unnecessarily heated on here:

You just need to check to see if the battery is OK or not and whether the bike is charging it whilst you are riding.

The headlight test sounds like a good idea however unless you are able to first fully charge the battery, such tests won't give you accurate information.

I have had batteries that have behavied like this before, mainly due to lack of use, and then after a full charge being back to normal again.

If you don't use your bike every week, battery conditioners are quite a good idea and will save having to buy a new battery sooner than you should.

Good luck.

[Ragingrob]

Checked the battery. Hangs around 12.1 volts and goes up a little when reved.

Hey mate, here's a fault-finding flow chart for charging systems, it's really easy to follow and is pretty informative. Give it a go and see if the troubleshooting amounts to anything!

Although when electrics are temperamental it's tough to troubleshoot them as they may work fine when ya test them! Bastards!

As Squiggles said, you can actually sometimes see if your regulator is poked due to it being melted/charred. So give it a good check over too.

Oh and yes, you need to fully charge the battery in order to check out the charging system properly!

EDIT - Here is also a link to the same kind of flow chart to save you from downloading http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm

[The Stranger]

Checked the battery. Hangs around 12.1 volts and goes up a little when reved.

Ok, what this tells us is there is a problem in the electrical system.
But then you already knew this, so we aren't really that far ahead.

What I can tell you is batteries don't take kindly to being jerked around and it has been for a little while now. It wants to be charged, IF you don't charge it and IF it's not already stuffed it will very likely fuck out and you will spend an additional $200.00 that you possibly didn't need to on replacing it.

So as per my earlier post, I would strongly suggest you get it on a charger ASAP then test it. Haven't looked where you live, but if it's around Auckland you are welcome to borrow mine.

Ok, Tauranga is a little far to come to borrow mine I guess.

[BUNGY]

Ok got a new battery and all seems well. Thanks to everybody for the help.

[Ragingrob]

Ok got a new battery and all seems well. Thanks to everybody for the help.

Have you checked out the regulator etc? If it wasn't the batt, the problems will come back again once it doesn't charge up properly.

[CookMySock]

Measure the voltage (DC) at the battery with the bike running, not sure about your particular bike but it should be reading around 13.5 volts when the revs are up. If it's lower check the voltage (AC) output of the alternator against the specs in the manual. If the alternator readings are fine but the charging voltage is low it'll be your regulator/rectifier. If the alternator readings are low then it's your alternator. If both of these are fine then it will probably be your battery.When the battery has a faulty cell, it will pull the terminal voltage down to 12V ish even when full charging is available. This can make it look like inadequate charging. A DC clamp meter is really the only way to check for charging current. edit: and the only real way to test a battery is with a load tester.

I'd just take the bike to the shop and ask them to test the battery on their load tester. They will tell you immediately if its rewted. Ask them to show you how it works.

Steve

[CookMySock]

All seems a bit unnecessarily heated on here:Naw it's just one of the mentors being abusive. Gee that doesn't sound right does it.

Steve

[The Stranger]

Naw it's just one of the mentors being abusive. Gee that doesn't sound right does it.

Steve

Unlike yourself, who has many posts offering stupid and/or dangerous advice, I don't consider it acceptable to babble on about subjects you have little or no understanding of.
It only serves to confuse others, waste their money and/or potentially put them in a dangerous situation.

I'll not be apologisiing for pointing out such stupidity in no uncertain terms.
If people don't like, it's quite simple - if you don't know what you are talking about, shut the fuck up.

[The Pastor]

Perhaps I should elaborate so as your sensitive wee soul doesn't think I am just randomly picking on you.

Yes you made a mistake on the Internet - a couple of them at least anyway in that post.
We are all human right, we all make mistakes, so what it's only the internet right?
Here's the thing, if your mistake costs someone $ is that ok?
If your mistake costs someone their life is that ok?
MISTAKES COST LIVES, they are NOT ok.

If you dispense advice you have a duty of care! Check and re-check your work BEFORE you post, not when someone points it out.

But - more importantly KNOW what you are talking about. Don't just think you know what you are talking about. Just because you did this one time before and it worked for you doesn't make it right for everyone in all cases.
If you are unsure - err on the safe side and - wait for it - SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Now that last part is real good advice, read it again.

So yeah, I get a little testy when nobs indiscriminately dispense stupid and/or dangerous advice. Because all they had to do in the first place was nothing and everyone would have been better off.

Remember, there really is NO need to open your mouth and remove all doubt, none at all.

Dude where do you get your life threatening batteries from? I've GOT to get me one of those.

[The Stranger]

Dude where do you get your life threatening batteries from? I've GOT to get me one of those.

Yeah, come around here and I'll show you one.

[Max Preload]

Ok got a new battery and all seems well. Thanks to everybody for the help.


Have you checked out the regulator etc? If it wasn't the batt, the problems will come back again once it doesn't charge up properly.

Of course not! :rolleyes: He'll do that if the new battery fucks out from being overcharged. There will never be any link made between that and the death of the new battery though...