Best 2-stroke engine?

[boostin]

What is the ideal 2-stroke engine used in buckets?

Not really worried about the best stock one, but want to know which has the best potential to be modified.

As I understand it the AX is out due to the 4speed box? Currently looking at GP125 or TF125 ?

Also does anyone know the weights of the different engines ?

Thanks.

[LBD]

What is the ideal 2-stroke engine used in buckets?

Not really worried about the best stock one, but want to know which has the best potential to be modified.

As I understand it the AX is out due to the 4speed box? Currently looking at GP125 or TF125 ?

Also does anyone know the weights of the different engines ?

Thanks.

Best 2 stroke ever?

Probably the old 8V71....

They made BUCKET loads of them...

Often fitted with a 8 speed eaton....or 4 speed Allison...

about 500 kg was the original....:stupid:

[Yow Ling]

There are a few to choose, TF100, GP100 can run any size carb and can watercool the head (and barrel if you want) TF125, GP125 restricted to aircooled only and 24mm carb. MB100, good engine no restrictions can fit MB50 6 speed. NSR80 probably the pick of the bunch. NS1 80 similar.

There are others but plenty are dogs, some old kawasakis are good but hard to find.

[boostin]

There are a few to choose, TF100, GP100 can run any size carb and can watercool the head (and barrel if you want) TF125, GP125 restricted to aircooled only and 24mm carb. MB100, good engine no restrictions can fit MB50 6 speed. NSR80 probably the pick of the bunch. NS1 80 similar.

There are others but plenty are dogs, some old kawasakis are good but hard to find.
Is there any agreement on which is best? 125 with restrictions vs 100 without?

[SHELRACING]

Is there any agreement on which is best? 125 with restrictions vs 100 without?

I'm working on an RX 125 based bike, which has a lot of potential. I reckon this motor is definatley worth a look.

[koba]

Is there any agreement on which is best? 125 with restrictions vs 100 without?

For outright power it seems the 100 has greater potential.

From what others say it seems that things have to get to a reasonably advanced stage before the 100 significantly better.

[koba]

I'm working on an RX 125 based bike, which has a lot of potential. I reckon this motor is definatley worth a look.

Are they a 5-speed?

[boostin]

I'm working on an RX 125 based bike, which has a lot of potential. I reckon this motor is definatley worth a look.

What makes you see potential in the RX? Just the general power available with development?


For outright power it seems the 100 has greater potential.

From what others say it seems that things have to get to a reasonably advanced stage before the 100 significantly better.

Thanks Koba, might look at a TF125 just because there seem to be many around.

[SHELRACING]

What makes you see potential in the RX? Just the general power available with development?



Thanks Koba, might look at a TF125 just because there seem to be many around.

Well looking at the porting, I imagine it is similar to the YZ125, because I fitted a yz chamber to mine and the motor responds to it quite well. There's room for porting improvements too.

Running a total loss points system, good options for improvement.

Easy to remove a lot of unwanted weight.

There's a very quick one in Auckland (that just needs a better chassis)

[Skunk]

The MB100/H100 would be the pick if you had to choose ONE. I don't want one and have chosen another path as I find it satisfying to improve a dog.

I also have a TF125 to work on. There is scope for improvements and they have 6 speed boxes (on some?)

[Bren_chch]

Mine is... ay F5dave :drool:

[Buckets4Me]

rg150

1 it's already water cooled
2 has a better 6 speed gearbox ???
3 is newer
4 only needs to be sleved down to 100

or you have a derbie
or there s aprilla
come on stop thinking old bucket shit
get up to date and buy new (already had the work done by the factory)

:gob:

[F5 Dave]

Actually Bren's one probably is close to the best.

That RG150 of Nigels didn't just 'happen' with a sleeve job.

[SS90]

rg150


come on stop thinking old bucket shit
get up to date and buy new (already had the work done by the factory)

:gob:

Ohhh, that is dissapointing Bucketsforme........ that's half the spirit of Bucket racing isn't it ?????

However, you could be quite right!

What about something like a TZ50....heaps available in Japan, and if you look in Aussie you will find some there as well (loads of Grey imports over the years)

as far as performance parts go, you can buy kits much bigger than 50cc (I can't remember how big, but 90cc rings a bell) YPVS,good ignition,power jet carb (I think) all from the factory.... , just put it in an old RS125 frame, make a sportier exhaust (no worries really), or maybe easier just fit a late model vtwin tzr250 chamber, fit the 90cc cylinder, and "plug and play" worth the effort in finding one I recon, you could try for years and never improve on the performance!

[koba]

Ohhh, that is dissapointing Bucketsforme........ that's half the spirit of Bucket racing isn't it ?????

However, you could be quite right!

What about something like a TZ50....heaps available in Japan, and if you look in Aussie you will find some there as well (loads of Grey imports over the years)

as far as performance parts go, you can buy kits much bigger than 50cc (I can't remember how big, but 90cc rings a bell) YPVS,good ignition,power jet carb (I think) all from the factory.... , just put it in an old RS125 frame, make a sportier exhaust (no worries really), or maybe easier just fit a late model vtwin tzr250 chamber, fit the 90cc cylinder, and "plug and play" worth the effort in finding one I recon, you could try for years and never improve on the performance!


Good thinking but if you buy a big bore kit as a competition part you may run into rule trouble.

No doubt somthing like that would be flecking fast tho!

[F5 Dave]

Well strictly speaking the TZ isn't a roadbike so isn't legal, but as the engine is exactly the same as the TZR50 nobody is worried about it (so is the chassis, even the triple clamp has ign lock hole), there have been a few in the past, but really the Aprillia & Derbi engines are more advanced.

However the big bore kits can hardly be legal as they are not the original equipment manufacturer, they are made as essentially race kits. Some might then argue that they were made for the road. well. . . I can't see that these are anything other that aftermarket performance parts well in advance of bucket engines.

[Yow Ling]

The rules dont clearly define the difference between competition and performance parts. Is a Malosi 80cc cylinder for a rs50 a competition part, or a road part? 80cc in F4 with hot road parts ! But if you bore a stock part its ok . Maybe a clarification is needed as to what exactly competion is and if it includes performance parts , otherwise Dangerous may be forced to remove his performance rocker cover and performance billet carby trumpet thing.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah, in Post Classics they specifically mention MTC barrels etc. That precludes me rocking up on my Trinity 500 & racing post classics with it. I believe the intention of the bucket rules is that the engines are based on road going machines sold as a complete bike. Modify or build wot ya got. Not lets order up some swish aftermarket parts. Makes everything else a bit obsolete & removes the skill of tuning.

D's coloured carb inlet is free legality anyway being on a carb, if a little naff taste-wise. Rocker cover? Well, as a non performance part who cares?

[Sully60]

D's coloured carb inlet is free legality anyway being on a carb, if a little naff taste-wise. Rocker cover? Well, as a non performance part who cares?

But it's red it must be faster!
So his hair, oh wait, that fucks that arguement.

[SS90]

Well strictly speaking the TZ isn't a roadbike so isn't legal, but as the engine is exactly the same as the TZR50 nobody is worried about it

However the big bore kits can hardly be legal as they are not the original equipment manufacturer, they are made as essentially race kits. Some might then argue that they were made for the road. well. . . I can't see that these are anything other that aftermarket performance parts well in advance of bucket engines.

Ooops, sorry I meant TZR50!

I guess your right F5dave with the idea of a cylinder being a performance part (logically aftermarket cylinders are racing use (though the majority end up on the road!), and as such strictly speaking illegal......... but....just to play devils advocate, does anyone know if the TZR50 is steel lined (I think they are), in all seriousness it would not be too expensive to pay a machine shop to do the machining needed to "big bore it" (put a bigger liner in)

[F5 Dave]

They are steel lined I'm sure. Someone had bored his out to 60 or so to compete in F4, would need a new liner to get a big increase & a stroked crank to get further, but I suspect 80cc would be pushing it. Most big bore aftermarket kits go 65cc.

[SS90]

I had a look in a Polini catalogue I happen to have here, and it seemed to show that the 80cc kit they make was the same as almost every bloody 50cc up grade from Honda to derbi to Aprilia (etc etc etc) I had a look on Ebay, and the one I saw was advertised to fit the following (Metrakit make some as well)

FITS:
APRILIA MX 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 )APRILIA TUONO 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) APRILIA RS 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 3-4-5-6 ) BETA ENDURO RR 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) BETA SUPERMOTARD RR ALU 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) BETA SUPERMOTARD RR 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) FANTIC CABALLERO 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 )HM CRE - DERAPAGE 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) HUSQVARNA CH RACING 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) MALAGUTI XSM - XTM 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6) MBK X-LIMIT 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6)MBK X-POWER 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) PEUGEOT XPS 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 )PEUGEOT XR6 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 ) RIEJU RS2 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 )SHERCO HRD 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 )YAMAHA TZR 50 2t LC (MINARELLI AM 6 )

With exhaust and ignition I have seen a claim of "Up to" 19 Horsepower.... quite believable actually....Hmmm I wonder if you would be allowed....F5 dave made a good point though!

[F5 Dave]

Yeah the reason for commonality is the AM6(?) engine seems to be used in many diff derivatives, possibly even the 2nd generation TZR which has a round headed full crankcase induction engine, different to the 1st gen TZR. Perhaps Yam use this as well.

[TZ350]

What is the ideal 2-stroke engine used in buckets?

Not really worried about the best stock one, but want to know which has the best potential to be modified.


Nothing can hold a candle to a Team ESE GP125!!!! :woohoo: and :bleh: to the FZR150's, my boy get a Suzuki GP125 and build it to the ESE formula if you want speed and reliability.

[Sully60]

Nothing can hold a candle to a Team ESE GP125!!!! :woohoo: and :bleh:

If you even tried holding a candle close to the bike that is now Brens KV, the windrush as it passed you blow the flame and turn your GP into a ball of flame!:blink:

[TZ350]

If you even tried holding a candle close tothe bike that is now Brens KV, the windrush as it passed you would turn your GP into a ball of flame!:blink:

Yea, I know!.......but I just had to have my 15 seconds of fame. :Oops: Ive been found out allready .........:laugh:

.

[Sully60]

Yea, I know! I just had to have my 15 seconds of fame. :Oops:

.

Hey don't get me wrong, you're bike goes really well but that thing, faaarrrrout!

[TZ350]

NOooooo .........:laugh: I didn't realy expect anyone to believe me, I was just being a jack ass. There are one or two faaarrrrout! bikes that one realy has to admire and a few more good riders. I hope to get there one day myself.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

iv got my tzr 125 well soon to be 100 and have got a frame for it now beter stop pissing around and get on with it 33hp power valved motor, down by one fith to 100 so 27hp at the 100cc mark in thery

[TZ350]

iv got my tzr 125 well soon to be 100

Now I am real jelous. :sick: and absolutly green with envy.

Please post pic's and the development story as you go along.

.

[_STAIN_]

I have chosen another path as I find it satisfying to improve a dog.


a 3 legged one at that

[SS90]

iv got my tzr 125 well soon to be 100 and have got a frame for it now beter stop pissing around and get on with it 33hp power valved motor, down by one fith to 100 so 27hp at the 100cc mark in thery

That's awesome, best way to go (in my opinion) Great engines!

With-out trying to sound like the horsepower police, I think (from memory) the TZR125's where only good for 25 Horsepower (or thereabouts), and tuned ( with a special cylinder and exhaust, for as much as you could while still being useable on the road) was something like 30 horsepower (or so)


Sleeved down to a 100cc, in a good frame with slicks, I think you would have on hell of a fast (and still reliable) bucket!

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Now I am real jelous. :sick: and absolutly green with envy.

Please post pic's and the development story as you go along.

.

What do you need pic's for you are the tz specilist so probley need you on board :whistle:

[TZ350]

What do you need pic's for you are the tz specilist so probley need you on board :whistle:

That will be a TZ from the 70's I have found out recently that things have moved on since then.

I would try and get some pointers from SS90, I am looking forward to seeing how you get on developing your TZR100, it should be good.

.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

That will be a TZ from the 70's I have found out recently that things have moved on since then.

I would try and get some pointers from SS90, I am looking forward to seeing how you get on developing your TZR100, it should be good.
.


Let's hope he does better than what he is doing on the fxr..:whistle::laugh:

[speedpro]

If you put the effort in like Nigel there is no reason it shouldn't be very fast. The only criticism I have of those modern 125-150 2-strokes is their sheer physical size. Nigels motor is a real lump compared to say an MB100 (my favourite). The drawback performance wise is the need to sleeve them down and also possibly like Nigels the need to weld up ports as they are oversized for a 100.

[SS90]

The drawback performance wise is the need to sleeve them down and also possibly like Nigels the need to weld up ports as they are oversized for a 100.

Yea, too right!

It's quite often forgotten that the fast 125 Japanese stuff really does have port size approaching "maximum", sleeving down to a 100 would require some port size reductions!

[TerraRoot]

the ax100 is the best engine out there because you can do this

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/125395d1239778835-double-barrel-hope-ax-200-twin-dsc00506.jpg

nobody would notice right?

[Bren_chch]

thats cool!!!

was it just a case of... because ya can?

[Skunk]

the ax100 is the best engine out there because you can do this

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/125395d1239778835-double-barrel-hope-ax-200-twin-dsc00506.jpg

nobody would notice right?
I really don't think they thought that through... 4 speed box, ugly ports etc.

[SS90]

the ax100 is the best engine out there because you can do this

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/motorbikes/125395d1239778835-double-barrel-hope-ax-200-twin-dsc00506.jpg

nobody would notice right?

AWESOME!!!!!!!:banana::banana::banana:

[Bren_chch]

I really don't think they thought that through... 4 speed box, ugly ports etc.


BUT... its COOL, just look at it! :2thumbsup

[Skunk]

Engineering wise it's cool. Practical? hmmm...
The Double Barrel of Hope : AX-200 twin
My Samurai – now the double barrel of Dream-Desire- Hope. Bit nightmarish as well. Almost two years since scratching up my Suzuki Samurai for a transform. She’s now getting dressed up to run a parallel graft twin cylinder engine & I feel bit confident (over confident?) that this time she would stand by me.

It all sparked with an Overdrive ’03-04 year edition featuring the legendary Rd-350 & Crazy Inline 5-cyl 2-stroke Millyard Kawasaki. Former has never been accessible let alone finding one. Few years later by year ‘07 my ten year young friend is due for a rebuild. I owed one for the tough time it has been with me in years of my studies & career start. First thought was to gift a shogun barrel, but the deep desire for an exclusive ride & a twin cylinder made me outrun such regulars.

Starting off in May’07 splitting the original engine, fired up the Twin engine for the first time in some time in March’08. Its few more months till September’08 for a road test. May be she didn’t like the silly idiot-engineered stuff, expressed so by splitting off the Crank itself. Its then time to hit the net & then my head and after six more months my bike is up ever so happily again with a new crank setup.

Thanks to many who assisted, special ones to ‘Gopiyettan & Titus’ always inspiring me to complete, share views & facts, tow the frame & what not, and above all tolerating my questions which at times even I didn’t understand. I must remember few colleagues for aiding me on the machining know-how front & the machine-service shop owners for caring to listen, do things as I required & never turning me off.

I’ve included few pictures of my dearest. Though looking not too good it is truly warm at heart! Think she felt pity on me for being on the verge of a job quit. No worries if she would stay pretty. It is quite much of a self assuring relief & a whole lot of commitment to have her smiling for years to come. Hope!!

I do have to add a lot of things to make it run around like proper twin. I expect generous inputs from you all techies to finish up. Shall detail all up in next posts.

bye.,

[Rick 52]

iv got my tzr 125 well soon to be 100 and have got a frame for it now beter stop pissing around and get on with it 33hp power valved motor, down by one fith to 100 so 27hp at the 100cc mark in thery

Nice choice of engine Pete you just beet me to it (bugger)
Good luck with the build looking forward to seeing it go

[quallman1234]

I really don't think they thought that through... 4 speed box, ugly ports etc.

Not only that, but that engine would be bloody wide as well!

Very cool.

[TZ350]

This page has some ideas on sleeving 125's down to a 100cc

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=86554&page=39

The original link

http://au.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.jp%2Fuda_vance%2F am-rz250r.html&lp=ja_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

came from Yaw Ling.

.

[Chambers]

iv got my tzr 125 well soon to be 100 and have got a frame for it now beter stop pissing around and get on with it 33hp power valved motor, down by one fith to 100 so 27hp at the 100cc mark in thery

Hi Busa Pete, how is your project? how about some pic's. They don't have to be brillant, anything would be interesting.