When is verbal or physical domestic violence understandable?

[Winston001]

From the Veitch thread a number of people have explained (but not excused) his actions in terms of being provoked by Kirsten Dunne-Powell.

How many KBers think that a woman can provoke a man to the point that he bursts into emotional verbal abuse? Is that understandable? Acceptable?

How about physical abuse?

Are there occasions where its justified?

NB - in France until 1970 crime passionnel (or crime of passion) was a valid defense

[CookMySock]

It's never acceptable, which ever way around it is done.

The power-struggle is perfectly explainable, and fixable.

http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=imago+match


Steve

[The Lone Rider]

From the Veitch thread a number of people have explained (but not excused) his actions in terms of being provoked by Kirsten Dunne-Powell.

How many KBers think that a woman can provoke a man to the point that he bursts into emotional verbal abuse? Is that understandable? Acceptable?

How about physical abuse?

Are there occasions where its justified?



Dunno about abuse, but when my girl friend has said things to me like she might not let me at the birth of our child, it takes a bit of tongue biting to not want to yell profanity over it.

I guess yelling and swearing and name calling depends on if it's constant or a one off due to something extreme that happened.

Physical no excuse.

[Mikkel]

If women could just learn to shut up when told so I am sure it wouldn't happen at all. :innocent:

[Pwalo]

It's probably time to walk away and find some one else.

[Laava]

But you need the satisfaction of some high decibel expletives! For closure.:woohoo:

[slofox]

It must cut both ways - not allowable by either party...

[buellbabe]

If the provocation is there then I think that verbal abuse is justified but never physical abuse. If it gets to that point then that is the time to walk away.

Hell! If I was being an f**king bitch and actually provoked my man (or anyone) to the point where he lost the plot then I would fully expect to be told in no uncertain terms what sort of an F**King bitch I was!

And for the record this goes both ways. There are some women out there who beat up on their men and that ain't cool either.

[Hitcher]

"When is verbal or physical domestic violence understandable?"

When one wanker too many posts yet another thread about it?

[Boob Johnson]

"When is verbal or physical domestic violence understandable?"

When one wanker too many posts yet another thread about it?
Ha ha, well said.

Verbal or physical is not on obviously. I think there is a difference between having a heated exchange/disagreement but when it's "abusive" that's not on at all.

Only need to be with someone who has suffered at the hands of another to know why it's not on.

[cc rider]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here

[Tank]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here

There should have been a question mark after called, and smiley has only 1 'i' and a y at the end.

You should have also had a full stop at the end of the second sentence.

[cc rider]

There should have been a question mark after called, and smiley has only 1 'i' and a y at the end.

You should have also had a full stop at the end of the second sentence.

Fuck you! :finger: :kick: :bash: :argue: :Playnice:

Glad you have a free hand :)

[tigertim20]

Every man woman and child have a breaking point, no matter how tolerant they are, or try to be. That doesnt mean that I think its acceptable to resort to physical or emotional or verbal abuse, but it does mean that I can understand how a person could be driven to do it. The human brain can only take so much before something has to give.

Although on the whole Veitch thing, didnt the woman have a romantic valentines dinner with him the next day?
and did he get his $150,000 "willing reparation" or "hush money" back?

[Beemer]

Verbal or physical is not on obviously. I think there is a difference between having a heated exchange/disagreement but when it's "abusive" that's not on at all.

Very true. I doubt many people would have NEVER yelled something offensive at someone in anger - but that is as far as it goes. They don't get up the following morning and carry on the shouting and continue it every day. I once went out with a guy who was very good at belittling me by pointing out that his ex was really clever, she'd been to university and he used to have very intelligent conversations with her. At the time I just thought he was a wanker and the relationship didn't last long after that, but I wonder if he would have carried on in that vein if we had stayed together.

I got one slap across the face - ONCE - by an ex and that was enough for me to walk out, never to return.

My husband and I will have heated debates when we have differing views - the difference is we don't throw "fuck you" and "what do you know, you're a fucking moron" into the mix!

I can understand the frustration you feel when you are dealing with someone who really knows how to wind you up, but the best thing to do is to walk away until you both calm down. I came from a family of sulkers - man, my father could sulk for weeks! I much prefer a bit of shouting, followed by an apology and then life goes on.

I know physical abuse is appalling and not acceptable under any circumstances, but I think verbal abuse can often be worse. Being constantly told you are useless can be just as horrible.

Compare this - heard a little girl aged about three out with her father ask him a question and he turned around and said "shut the fuck up will you". She looked like the bottom had fallen out of her world. Yesterday we were at a car show and a woman was having trouble with her two young sons. "If you do not apologise to your brother now, I will have to sit you down for three minutes to think about how mean that was". Next thing we heard a "sorry" and off they went to enjoy the rest of their day. Which kid would you rather be? And which kid would you rather have in your life as a partner when they grow up?

[scumdog]

It's probably time to walk away and find some one else.

Or just take a break.
Be like the moss-killer ad. "walk awaaaaay"

[scumdog]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here

Post on KB and you'll get more of that too if you make any grammar and spelling mistakes......:shutup:

[Marmoot]

Treating women differently just because of them being female is sexual discrimination, and such practice should be banned/discouraged/scorned upon.

Women has long fought for equality through suffrage, and thus their wish should be acknowledged and respected.
If it is fine to punch a bloke, then it should be fine to punch a bitch.

[Burtha]

Treating women differently just because of them being female is sexual discrimination, -->
If it is fine to punch a bloke, then it should be fine to punch a bitch.

do I see discrimination, I think so - bloke vs bitch?
classy.

breaking points as mentioned by others is human. how you deal with them is the difference between abuse and respect. if you still remain respectful then you can quite clearly say "please shut the f**k up"!

abuse, personal attacks either verbal or physical are unacceptable.
if there is found to be a mental or physical disability that is the cause of it however, this needs to be identified and treated.

[ynot slow]

Point and case about verbal or physical abuse,noticed how road rage starts with verbal and ends in violence.

Seems we can't just ignore or walk away anymore,must result in violence.

Similar thing happened to us,walking down a walkway in town to a bar,several slightly pissed 16-17yr olds gave a bit of lip.Others with us carried on,but I thought fuck you(youse for them)and walked back to ask what they meant,one tough guy said piss off as I walked to another(closest).
Turned out he was all talk,we said a few words about them getting pissed and bad mouthing passers-by,being tough and maybe getting the shit kicked out of them if they picked on 4 wrong guys.Best thing was he wanted to shake my hand,I said nah you're not worth it,he said,please sir,so I did,best part was getting close to him to shake I kept alert,but also reminded him,bit of a cunt you're right handed eh,can't hit me,the look on his face when I said I'm left handed,priceless.

[Mom]

Verbal abuse is one thing, I have been known to throw a bit of VB from time to time if I get sufficiently pissed off, seems to happen a bit when out riding and dickhead car drivers want to remove me from the face of the earth.

I have already stated my feelings about physical abuse, but I think what everyone is trying to talk about here is emotional abuse. That is an incidious and really damaging kind of abuse. It destroys lives and is every bit, if not more damaging than physical abuse.

[cc rider]

Post on KB and you'll get more of that too if you make any grammar and spelling mistakes......:shutup:

I know, I know. Small man syndrome is nothing new. :laugh:

cheers

[trump-lady]

The problem is by the time the physical abuse is happening there has often been years of emotional abuse, verbal abuse. As someone who works in this field and deals directly with victims once police get involved everyday I can tell you its not just men and women. I have many clients where the woman is the abuser however men are reluctant to seek help. We have grandparents being hit by grandchildren. (so fuckin maddening) Teenagers hitting their parents/siblings and many gay relationships are surfacing lately. Headbutting is the latest trend and I believe this comes from TV. We only get 30 percent of incidents reported :(

The other factors are the "intent of the perputrator" and "the effect on the victim"

All the things that have been noted can be simply answered as:

as soon as the use power of any type be it verbal, emotional or physical is used to try to control another being.... ITS NOT OK.

Power and control is the key here.

Wear a white ribbon to show your against violence

[Mom]

Power and control is the key here.

The sooner this amazingly simple wheel is better understood by the general population, the sooner we will see a bigger intolerance of domestic violence in any form. The rednecks will stop spouting "she asked for it" or "she deserved it" and instead be saying shit, wish I was closer to that situation to pull tugger up on his behaviour.

I apologise too for making this a gender specific issue in this post, I know that it applies across the population. Power and control, simple.

[Dave Lobster]

We only get 30 percent of incidents reported :(


How do you know how many aren't reported, if they're not reported?

[ital916]

if you wind someone up long enough an explosive reaction is bound to occur.

What I would like to know is how woman and men differ in their reactive measures.

Kinda like how catfights between female friends can be viscous with a lot of verbal abuse, backstabbing etc whilst between men there is a bit of a punch up instead and less verbal abuse.

[ital916]

The sooner this amazingly simple wheel is better understood by the general population, the sooner we will see a bigger intolerance of domestic violence in any form. The rednecks will stop spouting "she asked for it" or "she deserved it" and instead be saying shit, wish I was closer to that situation to pull tugger up on his behaviour.

I apologise too for making this a gender specific issue in this post, I know that it applies across the population. Power and control, simple.

Im pleased that you added in that end paragraph, abuse is not tolerable ever, no matter the gender of the culprit or the victim.

[MisterD]

as soon as the use power of any type be it verbal, emotional or physical is used to try to control another being.... ITS NOT OK.

S'what I always say...socialism...ITS NOT OK. ;)

[cave weta]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here
Shit I wish I had Known about him When I dumped my ex!- we could have set them up and if it all went according to plan they would have psycologically destroyed each other by now!:woohoo:

power tripping little bitch that she was! -tasty tho:pinch:

[MisterD]

Im pleased that you added in that end paragraph, abuse is not tolerable ever, no matter the gender of the culprit or the victim.

So...a question. Say we have a hypothetical situation where one partner is abusing the other mentally, verbally, emotionally...the other partner snaps and uses superior strength to turn the tables physically. Why is it only the retaliation that receives society's condemnation?

[Dave Lobster]

Why is it only the retaliation that receives society's condemnation?

Because it's illegal these days to say that someone deserved what was coming to them.

[jrandom]

Why is it only the retaliation that receives society's condemnation?

Because the rest of it is subjective and very specific to the subtext of the interaction between those two individuals, and generally, none of it is recorded as any sort of permanent evidence.

The retaliation, though, leaves bruises that can be photographed.

Society condemns plenty of things that involve simply saying or doing something that doesn't physically harm anyone, but at some point you have to draw a line at what's reasonably possible to define, and to prove after the fact.

[trump-lady]

How do you know how many aren't reported, if they're not reported?

Health professions...eg doctors hospitals etc are predicited to have at least 90 percent contact at some stage however we are only now implementing screening. Alot of the poilce reports are incorrectly filed. Common assualt when actually DV and remember many victims are reluctant to press charges so often there are no arrest. Increasingly since all the child murders we are getting neighbours and friends calling police. Awarness is HUGE. Since the media hype lately we have experienced a 50 percent increase of reported incidents.

Its an estimated based on recent screenings at DHB hospitals. Isnt truely accurate (obviously hard to pinpoint exactly) but theres no doubt a significant number of unreported incidents.

I know in my job we usually only have contact when its serious, usually involving hospital and the abuse has been occuring for years and has never been reported.

[Dave Lobster]

Health professions...eg doctors hospitals etc are predicted to have at least 90 percent contact at some stage.....

Predicted? Are there ANY real figures available?

[_STAIN_]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here

........hitcher

[Headbanger]

I once had a delightful young lady crack me on the jaw, Though to be fair I was urinating on the back of her leg as she tried to unlock the front door to her house.

Man,was I fucking boozed.

[Marmoot]

So...a question. Say we have a hypothetical situation where one partner is abusing the other mentally, verbally, emotionally...

because if this were made illegal, all lawyers would have to be arrested and convicted.
It then opens a legal wormhole. With all lawyers being prosecuted, who's left to prosecute them?

[Patrick]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here

Kiwi Biker. Or "Hitcher".... or is that "Tank" now???


There should have been a question mark after called, and smiley has only 1 'i' and a y at the end.

You should have also had a full stop at the end of the second sentence.


Fuck you! :finger: :kick: :bash: :argue: :Playnice:

Glad you have a free hand :)

See? Push the right buttons and look what happens..... Case in point!!!

Justified? Hmmmm....


best part was getting close to him to shake I kept alert,but also reminded him,bit of a cunt you're right handed eh,can't hit me,the look on his face when I said I'm left handed,priceless.

Was he right handed.....??? It's a good trick up your sleeve though. My fav trick too.....


I once had a delightful young lady crack me on the jaw, Though to be fair I was urinating on the back of her leg as she tried to unlock the front door to her house.

Man,was I fucking boozed.

So..... did ya get some?

[buellbabe]

I went thru 3 years of verbal and emotional abuse with the occasional slap thrown in... and threats to torch my house and slit my dogs throats.

Looking back now I wonder why I put up with it for as long as I did. The turning point was when I walked away from him as he was screaming abuse at me (I had made the mistake of not hearing a question and therefore not replying in the correct amount of time). I said nothing, just walked down the hall to the bedroom, he followed me and punched me in the side of the head then stalked out, jumped on his bike and roared off.

I sat on the bed for a few minutes thinking "WTF am I doing?". Then I got up and very calmly starting packing all his shit into boxes and put it out in the garage. I never shed one single tear.

A while later I heard that he had punched over the next woman who was unlucky enough to fall for his charms... gee I bet it was her own fault cos she was too bloody lippy eh?

[alanzs]

It is understandable on many levels, but it is not acceptable under any circumstances except a life being in IMMINENT danger of death or grievous bodily harm. Other than self defense, there is no excuse. FULL STOP!

Back in L.A., if the cops come to the house for a domestic disturbance, someone is GOING to jail. If the victim doesn't want to press charges, the police do. It is not left up to the victim, as they are obviously a victim and undoubtedly under pressure from the perpetrator to stay silent. Maybe that would work here?

[Winston001]

There is research which suggests family violence is sometimes two-way.

The thinking is something like this: women are better than men at expressing themselves and much more subtle about finding emotional triggers. Sometimes words aren't even necessary - a woman can enrage a man simply with a glance or by the way she leaves a room.

Men on the other hand are rationalists. Men don't use words easily, find it harder to explain themselves, and get confused by the emotional complexities intuitive to women.

These differences lead to situations where men become frustrated and cornered. They react in two way: either to blow in a rage, or go silent. Silence is misinterpreted by women who become hurt and frustrated themselves and things escalate.....

Ok - that's all very generalised and simplistic but nevertheless fair. The different ways of thinking do not excuse verbal/physical violence. However if a man and a woman understand these differences exist, that opens doors for understanding the other person.

Check out Celia Lashlie's "He'll be OK" (about sons....and the way men think...).

[Headbanger]

There is research which suggests family violence is sometimes two-way.

The thinking is something like this: women are better than men at expressing themselves and much more subtle about finding emotional triggers. Sometimes words aren't even necessary - a woman can enrage a man simply with a glance or by the way she leaves a room.

Men on the other hand are rationalists. Men don't use words easily, find it harder to explain themselves, and get confused by the emotional complexities intuitive to women.

These differences lead to situations where men become frustrated and cornered. They react in two way: either to blow in a rage, or go silent. Silence is misinterpreted by women who become hurt and frustrated themselves and things escalate.....

Ok - that's all very generalised and simplistic but nevertheless fair. The different ways of thinking do not excuse verbal/physical violence. However if a man and a woman understand these differences exist, that opens doors for understanding the other person.

Check out Celia Lashlie's "He'll be OK" (about sons....and the way men think...).

My thinking is some people are just cunts, and will be cunts until the day they die, even if they give up physically lashing out at those around them.

[Pwalo]

Come on this is all a bit twee. At the end of the day the only actions that you can control are your own. Do so. Don't hit people (unless they start it, and FFS never if it's a women), and if you're really getting frustrated/threatened/angry get out.

[cc rider]

Push the right buttons and look what happens..... Case in point!!! Justified? Hmmmm....

No Patrick,........all the buttons got broken long ago. This :Pokey:, is just - nothing at all.
We can turn the computer off & walk away. :oi-grr:

Shit-stirrers have a place in society too. They just keep escaping. :nono:

[Winston001]

Back in L.A., if the cops come to the house for a domestic disturbance, someone is GOING to jail. If the victim doesn't want to press charges, the police do. It is not left up to the victim, as they are obviously a victim and undoubtedly under pressure from the perpetrator to stay silent. Maybe that would work here?

Actually that is the police policy here. Zero tolerance for domestic violence. However sometimes officers can't tell who is at fault and furthermore are attacked by the person they arrived to rescue.

But you are correct - the police don't need evidence from the victim to prosecute.

[cowboyz]

Very true. I doubt many people would have NEVER yelled something offensive at someone in anger - but that is as far as it goes. They don't get up the following morning and carry on the shouting and continue it every day. I once went out with a guy who was very good at belittling me by pointing out that his ex was really clever, she'd been to university and he used to have very intelligent conversations with her. At the time I just thought he was a wanker and the relationship didn't last long after that, but I wonder if he would have carried on in that vein if we had stayed together.

I got one slap across the face - ONCE - by an ex and that was enough for me to walk out, never to return.

My husband and I will have heated debates when we have differing views - the difference is we don't throw "fuck you" and "what do you know, you're a fucking moron" into the mix!

I can understand the frustration you feel when you are dealing with someone who really knows how to wind you up, but the best thing to do is to walk away until you both calm down. I came from a family of sulkers - man, my father could sulk for weeks! I much prefer a bit of shouting, followed by an apology and then life goes on.

I know physical abuse is appalling and not acceptable under any circumstances, but I think verbal abuse can often be worse. Being constantly told you are useless can be just as horrible.

Compare this - heard a little girl aged about three out with her father ask him a question and he turned around and said "shut the fuck up will you". She looked like the bottom had fallen out of her world. Yesterday we were at a car show and a woman was having trouble with her two young sons. "If you do not apologise to your brother now, I will have to sit you down for three minutes to think about how mean that was". Next thing we heard a "sorry" and off they went to enjoy the rest of their day. Which kid would you rather be? And which kid would you rather have in your life as a partner when they grow up?
some people ever learnt the skills to say sorry. There are some actions that can be greatly dulled (but not excused) by true remorse. I am a true believer in free speech and you can say anything you want to me and that is fine. I have zero tolerance once it turns physical. If you dont like what I have to say then tell me Im an arse and walk away. I will return the favour.



So...a question. Say we have a hypothetical situation where one partner is abusing the other mentally, verbally, emotionally...the other partner snaps and uses superior strength to turn the tables physically. Why is it only the retaliation that receives society's condemnation?

Actually, retaliation is a defence. In the recent months at work my boss didnt like what I had to say so he hit me with a rake causing deep bruising and resulting in 9 days off work. The police did not lay charges because they claim it wouldnt stand up in court because he claims I assaulted him firt by throwing grass seed at him, even with no proof. I had photos, witness statements, medical certificates and a big bruise on my leg. He had his word and no evidence and that was enough for the police to not lay charges. Subsequently my working life is very very shit now.


Because the rest of it is subjective and very specific to the subtext of the interaction between those two individuals, and generally, none of it is recorded as any sort of permanent evidence.

The retaliation, though, leaves bruises that can be photographed.

Society condemns plenty of things that involve simply saying or doing something that doesn't physically harm anyone, but at some point you have to draw a line at what's reasonably possible to define, and to prove after the fact.

As it was explained to me by lawyers and police, bruises mean nothing. They heal.


Actually that is the police policy here. Zero tolerance for domestic violence. However sometimes officers can't tell who is at fault and furthermore are attacked by the person they arrived to rescue.

But you are correct - the police don't need evidence from the victim to prosecute.

but police need to get off their arses, put down the donuts and actually give a shit. My case was not brought to charges because I was only hit once, it was on a no lethal part of my body even though it left a huge bruise, the police could not establish intent even though there were witness statements. If the police dont want to do anything there is fuckall you can do about it.

[Big Dog]

In General terms: the first person to stoop to violence is the loser of the confrontation on an intellectual level, even if they win on a physical level.

Reality though is that there are some times when I think homocide is justified so why not domestic violence / homocide?

If a current partner threatened my children and I could not other wise restrain them you better believe I would knock them cold without any hesitation. Their being my partner would be no protection.

If you had the power to "push the button" on your significant other would you if he /she / it was about to push that button on your children?

So there it is, for most people both statements are true, violence is not ok but it is if there is sufficient penalty for failing to stand up. The question is where is the line that when it is crossed is it becomes acceptable if not honoured?

For me that line is when there is a clear and present danger to me or my loved ones. That would include knocking out a loved one to stop them from killing themselves.
Pretty easy to answer when in a good mood and not under stress.
Ask me again after 36 hours of pestering about something I gave a final ruling on in the first hour?
What about when I am in fear of being homeless again if things don't change as well?
What the factors are we don't know (unless one of you is Tony Veitch). Only one man knows what made him snap.

What I do know is the bible says judge not lest you be judged.
I don't condone his actions, but we all have our price, our own line in the sand.

[Mikkel]

Actually, retaliation is a defence. In the recent months at work my boss didnt like what I had to say so he hit me with a rake causing deep bruising and resulting in 9 days off work. The police did not lay charges because they claim it wouldnt stand up in court because he claims I assaulted him firt by throwing grass seed at him, even with no proof. I had photos, witness statements, medical certificates and a big bruise on my leg. He had his word and no evidence and that was enough for the police to not lay charges. Subsequently my working life is very very shit now.

The police might not choose to lay charges, but you should still be able to...

[cowboyz]

The police might not choose to lay charges, but you should still be able to...

nope. public cant lay charges. public lay complaints. it is up to the police to bring the charges.

[Winston001]

Come on this is all a bit twee. At the end of the day the only actions that you can control are your own. Do so. Don't hit people (unless they start it, and FFS never if it's a women), and if you're really getting frustrated/threatened/angry get out.

Agreed in general. Most of us do control ourselves. However consider:

A man or woman who discovers they have been betrayed by their partner.....

A man or woman who is denied access to their children....

A man or woman who is falsely accused of sexually assaulting their children...

A man or woman who is constantly criticised and treated with contempt by their partner.....

The same hurt man or woman who is drunk.....


We are all human and have our breaking points.

[Mikkel]

nope. public cant lay charges. public lay complaints. it is up to the police to bring the charges.

Sometimes I get this nagging feeling that there's something seriously wrong with the legal system in this country.

[Nasty]

I have seen physical abuse be overcome .. but the pain caused by the emotional abuse hampered this person for years.

[cowboyz]

Agreed in general. Most of us do control ourselves. However consider:

A man or woman who discovers they have been betrayed by their partner.....

A man or woman who is denied access to their children....

A man or woman who is falsely accused of sexually assaulting their children...

A man or woman who is constantly criticised and treated with contempt by their partner.....

The same hurt man or woman who is drunk.....


We are all human and have our breaking points.

however true this is and I am not sure it is. I am really an aggresive pacifist really.
There comes a point where action has consequence. Surely we cant say abolish all violence because people are human. What can be said is there should be punishment and consequence for physical abuse.

To answer your (rhytorical (sp?) questions.

A man or woman who discovers they have been betrayed by their partner.....

then they leave. They consider what they liked about theie partner and wonder why they are in a relationship with someone who is decietful and try to find a mate who is more trustworthy.

A man or woman who is denied access to their children....

This is a bastard of an idea on so many levels. I have many opinions on this one but resulting in physical abuse is not one of them

A man or woman who is falsely accused of sexually assaulting their children...

Anyone who is falsely accused of sexually assault surely would not be doing themselves any favours in the courts to add a factual assault charge.

A man or woman who is constantly criticised and treated with contempt by their partner.....

The whole, years and years of contempt and verbal abuse makes me wonder (because it is the type of person I am) how come the relationship lasted so long. You teach people how to treat you. I am a big believer in that. The first time someone I am dating says something that is costrude as verbal abuse I am clear that that is not acceptable. When my wife and I first got together we had a conversation on what we considered the rules of the relationship are. They are pretty simple but based around repect. 13 years later we abide by the same rules and are now married and have children who abide by the same rules. The point is, relationships are funny things in that for one couple, referring to each other as a bitch and bastard may be perfectly fine. It works. Thats ok. For others it may well not be ok.
I think the dating culture in NZ is much more of a oppourtunity hook up rather than spending time with someone, finding out you like each other and starting a relationship.

The same hurt man or woman who is drunk.....

alcohol is not an excuse. I dont believe alcohol makes anyone act in any way that they wouldnt do sober. Just gives a bit more of an excuse.

[Lissa]

Agreed in general. Most of us do control ourselves. However consider:

A man or woman who discovers they have been betrayed by their partner.....

A man or woman who is denied access to their children....

A man or woman who is falsely accused of sexually assaulting their children...

A man or woman who is constantly criticised and treated with contempt by their partner.....

The same hurt man or woman who is drunk.....


We are all human and have our breaking points.Well anyone who is in these situations have options other than violence.

What I am hearing or reading all the time is that alcohol fuels violence. And it does. I know it does. Yes we are all human but not all humans use their fists to make themselves feel good or to remedy a situation, alcohol is not an excuse. Even with the above situations you desribed IF you think you are capable or will do violence to another person (ie your partner) WITHOUT the aid of alcohol, shouldnt you go see a professional or get some help? If you are violent when you ARE drinking you also need help. Its not normal. And its not just adults who get hurt either... how many children are killed or hurt by violent parents/family members.

[Indoo]

Sometimes I get this nagging feeling that there's something seriously wrong with the legal system in this country.

I don't think you'd want a system whereby the public lay charges and the Police arrest people regardless of the evidence based on someones say so.

[cowboyz]

I don't think you'd want a system whereby the public lay charges and the Police arrest people regardless of the evidence based on someones say so.

thats for sure. the process it ok. its just when the wrong people do bad things and the police are too busy to deal with it then it leaves a foul taste.

And yes, I am bitter, fucked off and feel hard done by.

[sharknet]

2 years of having every spelling mistake and every grammatical error written down in a book plus other stuff - what's that called. no smilie faces here


School...?

[Indoo]

thats for sure. the process it ok. its just when the wrong people do bad things and the police are too busy to deal with it then it leaves a foul taste.

And yes, I am bitter, fucked off and feel hard done by.

Lay a complaint, it costs nothing, if it is as you say and there was overwhelming evidence against him including physical injuries and witness evidence while he had nothing to support his side then you certainly have grounds. Better doing something than feeling hard done by.

[cc rider]

The whole, years and years of contempt and verbal abuse makes me wonder (because it is the type of person I am) how come the relationship lasted so long.

I applaud your family ethics. :clap:

Abuse: It can slowly infest you like a rot. It's not always a 'relationship lasting' thing. Sometimes it takes a few years to get yourself into a position, financially, emotionally, to be able to leave.
Fear is a powerful thing. It can make you physically sick many years later, just talking or typing about it.

As Nasty said "the pain caused by the emotional abuse hampered this person for years."

[cowboyz]

Lay a complaint, it costs nothing, if it is as you say and there was overwhelming evidence against him including physical injuries and witness evidence while he had nothing to support his side then you certainly have grounds. Better doing something than feeling hard done by.


I did lay a complaint with the police and they chose not to lay charges because of reasons listed above.
Got me no where. Actually, that is a bit hard cause it got me about 500 yrs backwards. I am the scum of the earth and the only time anyone talks to me at work is to tell me how I am not a real man cause a real man does not go running to the police when they get assualted. It is all a bit messy. I would love to quit but I dont have job offers banging my door down.
There are consequences to laying complaints. ALot that I didnt realise were there. I am stunned at the position everyone at work has taken but until I find another job I am pretty much fucked. Another driving point to my staying is I am half way through an apprenticeship. Quit and I lose it.


I applaud your family ethics. :clap:

Abuse: It can slowly infest you like a rot. It's not always a 'relationship lasting' thing. Sometimes it takes a few years to get yourself into a position, financially, emotionally, to be able to leave.
Fear is a powerful thing. It can make you physically sick many years later, just talking or typing about it.

As Nasty said "the pain caused by the emotional abuse hampered this person for years."

point taken. I do feel lucky really, but my point was I dont think I got lucky by accident. It gets really tough once finances and kids get invloved but no love is unconditional. It is a bit tough if all of a sudden after years of someone treating you a particular way that they find out it is unacceptable.

[Indoo]

I did lay a complaint with the police and they chose not to lay charges because of reasons listed above.
.

I meant lay a complaint against the Police who attended and how they dealt with it. Its pretty easy to do and will be taken seriously.

[ital916]

Come on this is all a bit twee. At the end of the day the only actions that you can control are your own. Do so. Don't hit people (unless they start it, and FFS never if it's a women), and if you're really getting frustrated/threatened/angry get out.

Oh Im sorry, I must have misread that unless your stating its alright to hit a man but not a woman. Do they have some sort of invulnerability shield or something?

Bottom line is never hit anyone unless in self defence, WOMAN OR MAN. I must be talking upon deaf ears with the idea of gender equality, or maybe I am right in the idea that society is slowly falling victim to the constant prattle of feminists who in reality dont want equality but retalitory inequality.

If a man hits me I shall defend myself, if a woman hits me I shall defend myself. Bottom line.

[Winston001]

nope. public cant lay charges. public lay complaints. it is up to the police to bring the charges.

Not quite. It is possible to take a private prosecution. This happened against Trevor Mallard after he had a fight with Tau Henare in the Parliamentary foyer. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10483091

However its extremely rare, expensive and often unsuccessful. Not a practical option in your case.

[peasea]

I meant lay a complaint against the Police who attended and how they dealt with it. Its pretty easy to do and will be taken seriously.

A complaint against the police taken seriously??????


Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

WRONG!

[cc rider]

What is wrong with our societies. (rhetorical)

There are consequences to laying complaints. ALot that I didnt realise were there. I am stunned at the position everyone at work has taken but until I find another job I am pretty much fucked. Another driving point to my staying is I am half way through an apprenticeship. Quit and I lose it.

That's so shity, mate. Are Apprenticeships/apprentices protected by any gov't bodies in NZ?


point taken. I do feel lucky really, but my point was I dont think I got lucky by accident. It gets really tough once finances and kids get invloved but no love is unconditional. It is a bit tough if all of a sudden after years of someone treating you a particular way that they find out it is unacceptable.

If you mean "they" as in the abuser - they know it's unacceptable.

[Mikkel]

I don't think you'd want a system whereby the public lay charges and the Police arrest people regardless of the evidence based on someones say so.

Also, it would be nice if people learned to read and understand before they start putting words in anyones mouth.

[rosie631]

Regarding alcohol being an excuse for abuse. My ex used to bash me when he had been drinking. Sober he was fine and repentant. Not just me, when drinking, he was an arguementative prick who used to try and take everyone on. He tried to use alcohol as an excuse. But as far as i'm concerned it was completely controllable. You can't control yourself when you drink? Easy, STOP DRINKING. He wouldn't, so I left.

[Ms Piggy]

How many KBers think that a woman can provoke a man to the point that he bursts into emotional verbal abuse? All of us are responsible for our own actions and behaviour. The only exception would be children but I'm not really sure at what stage they would become accountable...another issue entirely!


Is that understandable? No.


Acceptable? Never.


How about physical abuse? Nope.


Are there occasions where its justified? Not ever.


NB - in France until 1970 crime passionnel (or crime of passion) was a valid defense NB - homosexuality used to be illegal in New Zealand, it never made the law okay/correct/right.

[alanzs]

What is wrong with our societies. (rhetorical)

Not enough sex?

[Indoo]

A complaint against the police taken seriously??????


Probably just not yours for rather obvious reasons.

[SixPackBack]

If she's not prepared to cook the eggs she deserves a fookin pastin'

Lets face it women would be stacked 10 high at the tip if they didn't have a pussy!

[normajeane]

NB - in France until 1970 crime passionnel (or crime of passion) was a valid defense

Hey we in udder side of world!!:bleh:
But that still doesn't give anyone excuse to "snap" and "hitout" at anyone. Unless the recipitent is as big and hairy as you are!! And they can retaliate!! So vwat I am saying is ... it isn't an excuse here??:niceone:

[normajeane]

Regarding alcohol being an excuse for abuse. My ex used to bash me when he had been drinking. Sober he was fine and repentant. Not just me, when drinking, he was an arguementative prick who used to try and take everyone on. He tried to use alcohol as an excuse. But as far as i'm concerned it was completely controllable. You can't control yourself when you drink? Easy, STOP DRINKING. He wouldn't, so I left.

Did you leave the first time ??? Good on you for getting out though.:niceone:

[normajeane]

Not quite. It is possible to take a private prosecution.
AND I heard anyone can make a citizen arrest!! Well that is a bit grey but hey, grey is the new beige!!:eek:

[ynot slow]

I can still remember a mate who after watching "Once were Warriors" was pissed at a couple of guys 16-18yrs saying hey bro just like home.They thought nothing of dad bashing mum,and he told the idiots so,there reply was what fucken tribe ya belong to?He rattled his ethnic lines to them.

Another mate smacked his dad when his mum got a slap.He was about 13 and hated doing it to his dad(brought up to respect parents etc),turned out his dad thanked him years later after they seperated,his dad reckoned the seperation made him grow up and take stock of his drinking etc.

And the excuse my dad beat us/mum doesn't wash with me,if so my dad and his family would all be bashers,turned out my grandad was beaten as a kid,he(grandad) never hit his kids,if they were told to see dad for punishment he would close the door,whack a piece of leather on the bench and rub the kids hand redish,my auntie always wondered if her mum knew,her mum did(years later).

I know a guy who was told no visiting kids after relationship ended,he would shag anything.but when the shit hit the fan he grew up,never beat her but went bloody close at times during breakup.That type of blackmail is damn hard to let go of for many.

Then also the guy can get years of mental abuse via the ex partner saying crap about him to their kids as well,bit different though that abuse as at least the two aren't in each others face to get violent.

[fire eyes]

I threw a plate of maccoroni cheese at my ex-husband once .. because he called me a bitch .. amongst other things .. I also threw his clothes outside the bedroom window when he didnt come home one night after a night out with his mates .. I rarked him up pretty badly .. but he never hit me .. he did things in other ways that broke me .. we did some mean things to each other .. I think in a chaotic relatioship its hard, common sense and logic gets blurred by emotions .. so this is a hard question to answer .. yes there is no excuse for abuse full stop .. but there is no excuse to stay in an unhappy relationship either .. no excuse not to respect yourself or another person but sometimes you don't know what that means unless you have been through the ringer .. those who abuse and they who are abused are not much different from each other .. there is a need on both accounts for another to participate in the situation .. my dad was an abuser, he is also a very sad and lost soul who refuses to take responsibility for himself .. my mum was victim who refused (at that time) to accept that she stayed in the hope of saving Dad from himself at her own expense. Obligation is a bitch. Luckily she found her way out of it .. it was that or death.

[Winston001]

I threw a plate of maccoroni cheese at my ex-husband once .. because he called me a bitch .. amongst other things .. I also threw his clothes outside the bedroom window when he didnt come home one night after a night out with his mates .. I rarked him up pretty badly .. but he never hit me .. he did things in other ways that broke me .. we did some mean things to each other .. I think in a chaotic relatioship its hard, common sense and logic gets blurred by emotions .. so this is a hard question to answer .. yes there is no excuse for abuse full stop .. but there is no excuse to stay in an unhappy relationship either .. no excuse not to respect yourself or another person but sometimes you don't know what that means unless you have been through the ringer .. those who abuse and they who are abused are not much different from each other .. there is a need on both accounts for another to participate in the situation .. my dad was an abuser, he is also a very sad and lost soul who refuses to take responsibility for himself .. my mum was victim who refused (at that time) to accept that she stayed in the hope of saving Dad from himself at her own expense. Obligation is a bitch. Luckily she found her way out of it .. it was that or death.

You touch on some interesting points. Domestic violence is often learned - we do what we know. If dad gave mum and the kids the bash, then we grow up thinking it's normal. And repeat it. Fortunately not everyone does that.

Women often choose men like their father. That's why good women pick losers. They do so in the hope that they can reform the guy. Doesn't tend to work out.

I don't believe verbal or physical violence is acceptable. I do think there are times when it is understandable. Human beings aren't logical or rational - we have strong emotions which make up our personalities, generally good but sometimes bad.

[buellbabe]

You touch on some interesting points. Domestic violence is often learned - we do what we know. If dad gave mum and the kids the bash, then we grow up thinking it's normal. And repeat it.

The guy that abused me grew up in a Bike Gang headquarters (some of you remeber the Gypsy Rogues?)...he witnessed his mother getting the bash on many occasions.
BUT he was and is a highly intelligent bloke and knows that sort of behaviour is NOT ok and yet somehow he couldn't stop himself from repeating the same cycle...its sad.

[ynot slow]

The guy that abused me grew up in a Bike Gang headquarters (some of you remeber the Gypsy Rogues?)...he witnessed his mother getting the bash on many occasions.
BUT he was and is a highly intelligent bloke and knows that sort of behaviour is NOT ok and yet somehow he couldn't stop himself from repeating the same cycle...its sad.

Obviously wasn't that intelligent when it came to emotions,intelligent in everylife sure maybe,but brain dead at emotional maybe,maybe from trying to block out what he saw as a kid.

Also a real way out thought here,remember when we could do dangerous type activities i.e bullrush,etc at school,my thinking is a few guys at school were the types to bash literally their way through,same with rugby,seems say 20 yrs later you find out their dad whacked them or the wife since primary school days,this lead to them taking that stance on the playing field.Noone was going to beat them.

[peasea]

Probably just not yours for rather obvious reasons.

:Oi:Ya fuckin' what?

What the fuck would you know about any complaint I have made against the police? Were you there? I doubt it.

So, what are these "obvious reasons" of which you speak?

[Patrick]

nope. public cant lay charges. public lay complaints. it is up to the police to bring the charges.

Steven WALLACE shooting - private prosecution...


A complaint against the police taken seriously??????


Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

WRONG!

"Serious" complaints are...


:Oi:Ya fuckin' what?

What the fuck would you know about any complaint I have made against the police? Were you there? I doubt it.

So, what are these "obvious reasons" of which you speak?

Vexatious litigant, perhaps...

[NOWOOL]

First off, I have an issue with the term "verbal abuse". Abuse means 'to harm'. If words can be abusive then the most abusive word is "NO".

As far as domestic physical abuse is concerned, my take is that if someone is trying to hurt you then they don't 'love you'. Love means putting someone else's welfare above your own.

[peasea]

Steven WALLACE shooting - private prosecution...



"Serious" complaints are...



Vexatious litigant, perhaps...

Or perhaps the workings of an ubiased observer.....

You're losing cred rapidly here pal. "Holier than thou" and all that.

It's endemic with the police and you're a prime example (if comments like that are your credos) of the po-leese lifestyle. Pull your fuckin' head in before I make flu connections.

Vex.Lit my arse! That pisses me off. Sometimes you say sensible things and I know we've agreed/disagreed in the past but Vex Lit? That epitomises the self righteous copper to a T. Fuck you. Fuck you.

(And I've been for ride today, observing the rules, no hurry, taking in the suuny autumn rays........had a goodie. Then someone comes along and does what?)

I'm going out to buy a pack of Tamiflu...........to ward off the sneezing, coughing, dribbling pigs.

Patrick! If your post is indicative of the police attitude to PCA complaints; Suck my dick!

[scumdog]

Or perhaps the workings of an ubiased observer.....

You're losing cred rapidly here pal. "Holier than thou" and all that.

It's endemic with the police and you're a prime example (if comments like that are your credos) of the po-leese lifestyle. Pull your fuckin' head in before I make flu connections.

Vex.Lit my arse! That pisses me off. Sometimes you say sensible things and I know we've agreed/disagreed in the past but Vex Lit? That epitomises the self righteous copper to a T. Fuck you. Fuck you.

(And I've been for ride today, observing the rules, no hurry, taking in the suuny autumn rays........had a goodie. Then someone comes along and does what?)

I'm going out to buy a pack of Tamiflu...........to ward off the sneezing, coughing, dribbling pigs.

Patrick! If your post is indicative of the police attitude to PCA complaints; Suck my dick!

Hmmm, a man with more PCA experience than myself I'd say....:whistle:

[short-circuit]

Or perhaps the workings of an ubiased observer.....

You're losing cred rapidly here pal. "Holier than thou" and all that.

It's endemic with the police and you're a prime example (if comments like that are your credos) of the po-leese lifestyle. Pull your fuckin' head in before I make flu connections.

Vex.Lit my arse! That pisses me off. Sometimes you say sensible things and I know we've agreed/disagreed in the past but Vex Lit? That epitomises the self righteous copper to a T. Fuck you. Fuck you.

(And I've been for ride today, observing the rules, no hurry, taking in the suuny autumn rays........had a goodie. Then someone comes along and does what?)

I'm going out to buy a pack of Tamiflu...........to ward off the sneezing, coughing, dribbling pigs.

Patrick! If your post is indicative of the police attitude to PCA complaints; Suck my dick!

I think Patrick is an apologist for shite police behaviour but you sure know how to make a tit of yourself at times

[smoky]

Imagine if someone you knew was a bully - kept arguing with people and pushing people around, every one would avoid him
imagine if he lost it with someone down the pub and smacked them in the face - police would be called and he would be charged. We'd all say he desrved to be charged

We wouldn't invite this person on a KB ride - probably

So is it any different if it's toward his partner in life?
why do we need to even have this conversation?
Shit happens - if you loose it, you pay the price
If it's more than a 'one off' thing then you've got a problem - get help

[cc rider]

First off, I have an issue with the term "verbal abuse". Abuse means 'to harm'. If words can be abusive then the most abusive word is "NO".

Not sure if I understanding what you mean there, sorry.

When someone is being abused they are also being emotionally/phsycologically abused. It can be subtle.
It can cause mental impairment and leave them in a weaken state of wellbeing, self-concept.

So what I'm trying to say, though not very well, is that that the 'words' are accompanied with certain types of behaviour that the Abuser inflicts on their victim to obtain 'control'. The harm (power) of the 'words' can come from how they are delivered.


....if someone is trying to hurt you then they don't 'love you'. Love means putting someone else's welfare above your own.

Physical abuse can also occur in the workplace, social groups, peer groups etc, so no 'love' there necessarily.

Abuse is a behaviour & we all have different coping mechanisms.

Your right, love does means putting someone else's welfare above your own.

I think you are saying why hang around if someone is treating you or yours this way.
How much time have you got. I hope you have been able to read the variuos threads. It'll give you some insight into the environments some of us have been or are in.

(oh god I type slow)

:)

[peasea]

Hmmm, a man with more PCA experience than myself I'd say....:whistle:

And your point Scummy?

My experience with the PCA has taught me that cops lie. What has it taught it you? (How to lie, perhaps??) You can't deny that very few complaints against the PCA are upheld (3% at last count). That doesn't mean that 97% of complainants are liars, we all know that.

Perhaps you're the 'one in a thousand' who is a half decent cop? Perhaps the people in your 'patch' haven't got the ability ('repsect' to them) to write a letter to the PCA? Lucky, perhaps, for you. I don't know. Reports about you point to the former but let's face facts; this is KB, not the real world.

Therin lies the difference.

[peasea]

I think Patrick is an apologist for shite police behaviour but you sure know how to make a tit of yourself at times

As does Patrick.

But he's the expert, not me.

[scumdog]

And your point Scummy?

My experience with the PCA has taught me that cops lie. What has it taught it you? (How to lie, perhaps??) You can't deny that very few complaints against the PCA are upheld (3% at last count). That doesn't mean that 97% of complainants are liars, we all know that.

Perhaps you're the 'one in a thousand' who is a half decent cop? Perhaps the people in your 'patch' haven't got the ability ('repsect' to them) to write a letter to the PCA? Lucky, perhaps, for you. I don't know. Reports about you point to the former but let's face facts; this is KB, not the real world.

Therin lies the difference.

And the real world I live in is very, very bereft of PCA-likely incidents..

Had no PCA complaints against myself (make of that what you will) and the ones I have been privy to were from.. er.. vexatious people shall we say...with an axe to grind.

[Winston001]

First off, I have an issue with the term "verbal abuse". Abuse means 'to harm'. If words can be abusive then the most abusive word is "NO".


Its a common misunderstanding about the power of words. The old saying "stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" is wrong.

I know of people still bitter 20 years after harsh or cruel words were spoken to them. Verbal abuse can emotionally cripple a person particularly a child. Much of the work counsellors do involves healing psychological wounds, not physical damage.

A broken bone will heal and be forgotten but a nasty comment echoes on and on..........

[SixPackBack]

Not sure if I understanding what you mean there, sorry.

When someone is being abused they are also being emotionally/phsycologically abused. It can be subtle.
It can cause mental impairment and leave them in a weaken state of wellbeing, self-concept.

So what I'm trying to say, though not very well, is that that the 'words' are accompanied with certain types of behaviour that the Abuser inflicts on their victim to obtain 'control'. The harm (power) of the 'words' can come from how they are delivered.



Physical abuse can also occur in the workplace, social groups, peer groups etc, so no 'love' there necessarily.

Abuse is a behaviour & we all have different coping mechanisms.

Your right, love does means putting someone else's welfare above your own.

I think you are saying why hang around if someone is treating you or yours this way.
How much time have you got. I hope you have been able to read the variuos threads. It'll give you some insight into the environments some of us have been or are in.

(oh god I type slow)

:)


Its a common misunderstanding about the power of words. The old saying "stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me" is wrong.

I know of people still bitter 20 years after harsh or cruel words were spoken to them. Verbal abuse can emotionally cripple a person particularly a child. Much of the work counsellors do involves healing psychological wounds, not physical damage.

A broken bone will heal and be forgotten but a nasty comment echoes on and on..........

'Abuse'.....an over used PC term that all too often shifts blame from those that choose to take exception to a comment. In this nanny state how often do we stop to ask if the individual that complains about verbal abuse [and verbal abuse is what I'm talking about here] is actually a precocious, cry baby.

Animated arguing is a fact of life. Debating teams as I remember, are a part of schooling and only just fall short of abuse by some individuals measures.

As with the various KB threads on mental illness, individuals need to first take a three month full strength course of harden the fuck up before proclaiming they are the victim of verbal abuse.

For those that doubt the sanity of my post, get hold of a copy of 'your erroneous zones' for unarguable logic on the subject of blame appropriation. This book has sold over 30 million copies and remains one of the top selling books of all times.

[cc rider]

'Abuse'.....an over used PC term that all too often shifts blame from those that choose to take exception to a comment. In this nanny state how often do we stop to ask if the individual that complains about verbal abuse [and verbal abuse is what I'm talking about here] is actually a precocious, cry baby.
As with the various KB threads on mental illness, individuals need to first take a three month full strength course of harden the fuck up before proclaiming they are the victim of verbal abuse.


I guess some people just don't know what the fuck they are talking about & yet they talk :argue:

[SixPackBack]

I guess some people just don't know what the fuck they are talking about & yet they talk :argue:

WAAAAAAAHHH..........bet you cry yourself to sleep at night.
Research the book before you make a judgement call.

[cc rider]

WAAAAAAAHHH..........bet you cry yourself to sleep at night.
Research the book before you make a judgement call.

Don't be a dick.

Try getting out in the real world before you make your judgement calls.

[SixPackBack]

Don't be a dick.

Try getting out in the real world before you make your judgement calls.

Carefull women that looks like abuse to me.
Have you googled the book??.........you should do, it could change your life

[Subike]

QUOTE=Winston001;2037611 Agreed in general. Most of us do control ourselves. However consider:

A man or woman who discovers they have been betrayed by their partner.....
Being constantly accused of being unfaithful, yet there is no foundation or evidence to the accusation......

A man or woman who is denied access to their children....
Having a partner who abuses your previous relationships child when visitation happens, in such a subtle way, that the child no longer wants to visit you out of fear of your new partner

A man or woman who is falsely accused of sexually assaulting their children...
Accusations of improper suggestions and actions after her adult married daughter visits, or any of her friends that visit. God forbid you have a female friend!!!!! thats is just a friend

A man or woman who is constantly criticized and treated with contempt by their partner.....
How can you be consistent when you are judged on what is conciderd normal??
And the continuous "why can’t you be a normal man” statement, (does such a being exist?)

The same hurt man or woman who is drunk.....
Or on drugs, be the illicit or prescribed, anti depressants can bring wicked mood changes, as can drugs prescribed for meapouse

We are all human and have our breaking points.

And lots of you say, "Walk away" when it’s heated or stress becomes boiling point
How can you do that when if you do walk away or take time out, it leads to more accusations about "where did you go, who was she, who did you tell, you are running away ", being the fuel for the fire when you return?????

And then the bubble bursts, next thing your in handcuffs, in court, in jail, and all you did was try to love this person to the best of your ability.
Is domestic violence OK, NO,
Is verbal/emotional abuse OK, NO
But please don’t be blind to the fact it is as much women against men as it is men against women.


I am not a woman hater, I believe I respect them properly, I hope one day I will find one I can love. As of yet I have not found one who knows how to be truly honest, or truly respectfull, white lies are lies, hidden closets ar not weapons, honesty goes BOTH ways when demanded. Yes the truth hurts, accept it yourself first.

Oh bahh humbug!!

[cc rider]

Oh bahh humbug!!

Feeling that way myself today.

signed

Grumpy Bitch ;)

[Patrick]

Or perhaps the workings of an ubiased observer.....

You're losing cred rapidly here pal. "Holier than thou" and all that.

HUH??? Dunno where that came from... but I sleep well at night.

It's endemic with the police and you're a prime example (if comments like that are your credos) of the po-leese lifestyle. Pull your fuckin' head in before I make flu connections.

Vex.Lit my arse! That pisses me off. Sometimes you say sensible things and I know we've agreed/disagreed in the past but Vex Lit? That epitomises the self righteous copper to a T. Fuck you. Fuck you.

Very ghey.... but if the shoe fits you.... Self righteous my arse.

(And I've been for ride today, observing the rules, no hurry, taking in the suuny autumn rays........had a goodie. Then someone comes along and does what?)

I'm going out to buy a pack of Tamiflu...........to ward off the sneezing, coughing, dribbling pigs.

Patrick! If your post is indicative of the police attitude to PCA complaints; Suck my dick!

Very ghey again.... The Poice attitude to PCA is that they are investigated, with vigour. But YOU won't believe that. Blow yourself...

[peasea]

Very ghey again.... The Poice attitude to PCA is that they are investigated, with vigour. But YOU won't believe that. Blow yourself...

Poice?

Anyway; It's about believing what I see.

Go away, you smell.

[Patrick]

Poice?

Anyway; It's about believing what I see.

Go away, you smell.

That is the steam off my shit... and I didn't give you that, either.....

[peasea]

That is the steam off my shit... and I didn't give you that, either.....

Oh, pardon me, I got the impression your shit didn't stink, the way you pontificate. (That'll explain the alter boys.........)

[Patrick]

Oh, pardon me, I got the impression your shit didn't stink, the way you pontificate.

The alter boys are all yours.

Examples, Mr V.L???

[Patrick]

Thought so......

Nothing......

[NOWOOL]

My take is if the cops are going after you and you are innocent of the charges then nature is taking its course and punishing you for all your ills......ask yourself this question and post if you are innocent: have you ever wronged or stolen from someone.....do you take from others.......do you have bad luck?

if you can answer truthfully (not here but to yourself ) then you are your worst enemy and natural law as it equates to society is pushing you down and weeding you out.....don't blame others for you 'luck'.

[peasea]

My take is if the cops are going after you and you are innocent of the charges then nature is taking its course and punishing you for all your ills......ask yourself this question and post if you are innocent: have you ever wronged or stolen from someone.....do you take from others.......do you have bad luck?

if you can answer truthfully (not here but to yourself ) then you are your worst enemy and natural law as it equates to society is pushing you down and weeding you out.....don't blame others for you 'luck'.

What are you smoking?

[Patrick]

A dodgy PCA....

[NOWOOL]

What are you smoking?

Dude, I'm no dissing you personally, just stating what I've observed over the years: when i was a criminal I had the worst possible luck when I wasn't committing a crime. I'd even get pulled over when I wasn't doing anything wrong and that added fuel to my fire.
Once I sorted myself out and became 'legit', my 'luck' turned and I made 100 times more a year than I did trying to make a quick buck. Looking back on my teens and 20's I'd gladly pay $100,000 to do them over again and 'choose wisely'. I'd end up even wealthier for it and not spend years locked up.

so, to answer your question about what i'm smokin'?...I'm smokin' the stuff that allows me to pay cash for new Harley's, houses, etc.

[peasea]

Dude, I'm no dissing you personally, just stating what I've observed over the years: when i was a criminal I had the worst possible luck when I wasn't committing a crime. I'd even get pulled over when I wasn't doing anything wrong and that added fuel to my fire.
Once I sorted myself out and became 'legit', my 'luck' turned and I made 100 times more a year than I did trying to make a quick buck. Looking back on my teens and 20's I'd gladly pay $100,000 to do them over again and 'choose wisely'. I'd end up even wealthier for it and not spend years locked up.

so, to answer your question about what i'm smokin'?...I'm smokin' the stuff that allows me to pay cash for new Harley's, houses, etc.

Doesn't start with the 16th letter of the alphabet does it?

Go on, I can see you counting now.............

[tri boy]

I got confused after F.
Fuggit, spark up th bowl.