Wheat/dairy intolerance?

[Naki Rat]

Way off what I'd normally expect to find on KB but I have a similar poll running on another forum I belong to and am getting some surprising results.

It seems that eateries increasingly are offering a "gluten free" option on their menus which didn't seem to be the case even 10 years ago. I'm possibly more aware of this as I have learned to live with such dietary 'intolerances' over the past few years but I am curious to find out how many others in the general population have similarly compromised dietary choices.

As with my other poll I will give a multiple choice option to cater for more than one 'vote' per household.

[PirateJafa]

If it doesn't move too fast, I'll eat it.

Om nom nom.

[Hitcher]

The actual number of people who really are dairy/gluten intolerant is significantly less than the numbers of people who think they might be.

"Gluten-free" is a badge that many people choose to define themselves. Gay, gluten-free, disabled vegans with a land-rights grievance. A picture emerges.

The "worried well" have much to answer for. Supermarkets and retailers also pander to them, which doesn't actually contribute to informed debate. It's the plastic shopping bag saga in another guise.

[Naki Rat]

The actual number of people who really are dairy/gluten intolerant is significantly less than the numbers of people who think they might be.

"Gluten-free" is a badge that many people choose to define themselves. Gay, gluten-free, disabled vegans with a land-rights grievance. A picture emerges.

The "worried well" have much to answer for. Supermarkets and retailers also pander to them, which doesn't actually contribute to informed debate. It's the plastic shopping bag saga in another guise.

Pretty standard view from one who doesn't have any food intolerance issues. It can also be argued that the number of those who have wheat/dairy intolerances is under stated as many who feel unwell after overconsumption of a problem food just write it off to other vague causes.

As one of the "worried well" it's a real bitch returning from a day's ride with concentration levels comparable to having had a few pints, due to having consumed a poorly tolerated food that has slipped in under the radar :sick:

[riffer]

"Gluten-free" is a badge that many people choose to define themselves. Gay, gluten-free, disabled vegans with a land-rights grievance. A picture emerges.

Yeah thanks Hitch.

I'll pass that on to my 9-year old son. I'm sure he'll be delighted to know that his ceoliac disease is a psychosomatic illness.

I guess next you'll be saying I can throw my insulin away too. :angry:

[riffer]

As one of the "worried well" it's a real bitch returning from a day's ride with concentration levels comparable to having had a few pints, due to having consumed a poorly tolerated food that has slipped in under the radar :sick:


Try having a hypo on a motorcycle mate. It's a bitch.

[BOGAR]

My friend and her kid have been tested and are both intolerant of a few things including wheat and dairy. The test they did shows what and how bad for the different things. I no longer wont to know so I can be blissfully unaware to what I shouldn't eat. I do however notice sometimes things don't agree with me so I somewhat try to avoid things but am never sure what they are. My friend is also diabetic so that creates some new challenges but it is all good.:yes: Sometimes going off the food for a while can let the body "recover" so that you can eat small amounts again with no effect.

[Hitcher]

Pretty standard view from one who doesn't have any food intolerance issues.
Please read what I said. I never said that there weren't people with genuine food-related allergies or dietary conditions.

I am not a holocaust denier, merely somebody looking for a reasoned and scientific approach to an otherwise emotional subject.

[Naki Rat]

Please read what I said. I never said that there weren't people with genuine food-related allergies or dietary conditions.

I am not a holocaust denier, merely somebody looking for a reasoned and scientific approach to an otherwise emotional subject.

I'll stick with my reply. Unfortunately not being able to enjoy foods that to most of the population are consumed without a second thought tends to piss one off, which tends to make the issue fairly emotional (quite apart from the mood altering symptoms that go with it) :angry2:

It would also seem that medical recognition of the problem has not moved forward at the same pace as the food production and processing technology that is at the heart of the problem for many individuals.

[Hitcher]

It would also seem that medical recognition of the problem has not moved forward at the same pace as the food production and processing technology that is at the heart of the problem for many individuals.

I think we'll disagree on that last point. There are a lot of urban myths and legends about many conditions that may affect people's health, which can make some people impatient about what they believe to be medical/scientific intransigence, when those on the other side see a complete lack of evidence on which to validate others' perceived concerns. And there are some issues where the "truth" does not exist somewhere between two extreme views, much to the annoyance of my mother.

And yes, I should declare my interests and state that I have worked as a professional apologist for the food and health industries in a past life.

[saxet]

I think we'll disagree on that last point. There are a lot of urban myths and legends about many conditions that may affect people's health, which can make some people impatient about what they believe to be medical/scientific intranisgence, when those on the other side see a complete lack of evidence on which to validate others' perceived concerns. And there are some issues where the "truth" does not exist somewhere between two extreme views, much to the annoyance of my mother.

And yes, I should declare my interests and state that I have worked as a professional apologist for the food and health industries in a past life.


Okay, you seem to have more answers than the Docs. Can you tell us whats wrong or is the fact that you have the answers all in your head.
So far you've said alot without saying anything.
We'd all like an explanation not more random gobbledygook. we've had speculation and denial for years and comments like your'se sound too much like a continuation. I'd speculate that this sort of medical problem is much more widespread than realised as so many people want to know whats wrong with them but get denial, pchycological b/s, or weird hippy explanations instead of help. These days I'm more inclined to listen to the hippies as at least they acknowledge that it exists.
If I sound a little emotional it's because this unexplained, uncatorgorised illness has wrecked my life, including my ability to ride.So yes I get upset when people start by slagging of the victims.

[Hitcher]

We'd all like an explanation not more random gobbledygook.

If you don't understand what I wrote, I'm not sure what your expectations are.

I said there were myths and legends about food. Here's a short list that should do for starters:

Cholesterol
Cancer
Calories
Fibre
Aspartame
"E" numbers
Additives (preservatives, colourings, flavourings)
Meat
Genetic modification
Gluten
Autism
Hyperactivity
Allergies
Alar
Water
Dairy products
Growth-promoting hormones
"Imported" food.

There is a lot of emotion about any or all of those, some of which has some basis in fact, much of which does not.

What people choose to eat is a matter of personal choice. I have no issues with people who are making informed choices about their health and diet. I do, however, have issues with people who seek to deliberately mislead others by promulgating bodgy information.

[riffer]

You forgot Morgellons.

[Skyryder]

If ya want perfect health don't eat for about a month..............then you have to make a life saving decision.


Skyryder

[Swoop]

It pisses me off when I see "gluten free" on a menu.
I always read it as "glutton, free" and look forward to a decent scoff without having to pay.

[MyGSXF]

Both my kids & I drink 'Alfalite' as an alternative to cows milk! The difference in physical symptoms & how we feel, is VERY noticeable! :yes: (tis gluten free also!)


http://www.alfafoods.co.nz/Home/OurProducts/AlfaLite/tabid/14264/Default.aspx

works out at $1.70 P/L too!! :niceone:

[Usarka]

My physio told me to work on my glutes. I must be gluten free :doh:

I prefer to avoid soy over wheat or dairy. I pity the poor fool who can't drink a milkshake without an allergic reaction.

[Mikkel]

Ever since I got cured of my hypochondriasis I have been fine with it... (belly rubs worked a treat) these days I only have to worry about haemorroids and flatus.

[Hitcher]

Both my kids & I drink 'Alfalite' as an alternative to cows milk! The difference in physical symptoms & how we feel, is VERY noticeable! (tis gluten free also!)

Presumably you're drinking this because of a lactose intolerance, because dairy products contain no gluten.

Now there's a thought. Just as some New Zealand chicken products manufacturers scream that their products contain no growth promoting hormones or "GM", dairy manufacturers should also scream that theirs contain no gluten.

Women drinking soya products (all of which contain traces of GM, by the way) need to be wary of the oestrogen levels in soy, which can manifest itself by zitty complexions.

[MyGSXF]

Presumably you're drinking this because of a lactose intolerance, because dairy products contain no gluten.

Correct. :yes:

see attached sheet for info

[MisterD]

Presumably you're drinking this because of a lactose intolerance,

I've done a bit of reading on lactose intolerance, which is apparently more common than you'd think...only the northern Europeans and some of the Africans evolved to retain an infant mammal's natural ability to digest lactose into adulthood, everyone else stops being able to produce the required enzyme.

I found all this out following the birth of our first baby by c-section when MrsD developed secondary lactose intolerance - when the body temporarily stops producing the enzyme as a reaction to the trauma of the operation.

[Hitcher]

I've done a bit of reading on lactose intolerance, which is apparently more common than you'd think

You're quite right. Most of the world's people are lactose intolerant. That makes me wonder about the intellect behind those wanting expand their dairy empires into the vast "untapped" markets of China and India.

[Naki Rat]

You're quite right. Most of the world's people are lactose intolerant. That makes me wonder about the intellect behind those wanting expand their dairy empires into the vast "untapped" markets of China and India.

Those would be the same intellects that didn't see the melamine contamination fraud coming :doh:

[CookMySock]

Yeah dairy makes me fart long clear rattly ones, but I love a good fart, and its fun lighting them, and dairy is yummy. Yeah so I'm not intolerant, but sometimes other people are. :laugh:

Steve

[bezajel]

As one of the "worried well" it's a real bitch returning from a day's ride with concentration levels comparable to having had a few pints, due to having consumed a poorly tolerated food that has slipped in under the radar :sick:

I'm gluten free without a diagnosis, but currently it's part of the whole keeping a diary and seeing what works.

It's great when things are marked gluten free on the menu, 'cause it's a bitch having to ask about every little thing. Though I'm vegetarian, too, so even places that offer gluten free things often don't have something I can eat. (E.g. gluten free burgers at burger fuel, yay! But wait, all the vegetarian patties have breadcrumbs - or gluten free dishes offered at my previously favourite italian place! But wait... the only vegetarian dishes are pasta... etc.)

Ranty ranty! Anyway...

What I meant to comment on was the concentration equivalent of having had a few pints. I get that frequently, but for me I think it's mis-timed meals and blood sugar levels. Another issue I think I need to sort out, but it's damn annoying.

[Usarka]

Women drinking soya products (all of which contain traces of GM, by the way) need to be wary of the oestrogen levels in soy, which can manifest itself by zitty complexions.

Not just chicks that need to watch the estrogen. Unless guys want to star in small dick shemale gang bang orgy pr0n spectaculars.

Soy is evil (well, the soy pushers are evil).

Believe all that you read! http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/

[Hitcher]

What I meant to comment on was the concentration equivalent of having had a few pints. I get that frequently, but for me I think it's mis-timed meals and blood sugar levels. Another issue I think I need to sort out, but it's damn annoying.

You'll probably find that your blood iron levels are all out of whack too, being a female vegetarian. Most female veggos are anaemic.

[saxet]

If you don't understand what I wrote, I'm not sure what your expectations are.
There is a lot of emotion about any or all of those, some of which has some basis in fact, much of which does not.

What people choose to eat is a matter of personal choice. I have no issues with people who are making informed choices about their health and diet. I do, however, have issues with people who seek to deliberately mislead others by promulgating bodgy information.

Well that has'nt explained much..like how some of us don't have the luxury of CHOOSING what to eat..these Choices are forced onto us.There is alot of myth around some of the items you mentiond..there is also,as I have come to realise, alot of myth around accepted science.

[Hitcher]

There is alot of myth around some of the items you mentiond.

That's why I mentioned them.

Being concerned about food safety and suitability is very much a developed western middle-class indulgence. Many of the humans on this planet have no idea where their next meal is coming from, and consequently have no interest whatsoever in things like food allergies, cholesterol or whether products are organically grown by unionised Inuits.

[Naki Rat]

That's why I mentioned them.

Being concerned about food safety and suitability is very much a developed western middle-class indulgence. Many of the humans on this planet have no idea where their next meal is coming from, and consequently have no interest whatsoever in things like food allergies, cholesterol or whether products are organically grown by unionised Inuits.

Indulgence, maybe for the well heeled with green fuzzy idealists, but for an increasing portion of Westerners replace 'indulgence' with 'problem'. The problem being that their diet is becoming more and more polluted with highly-refined, additive riddled, plastic packaged (phytoestrogens), trans fats, pesticide residues, etc. which when combined with stressful lifestyles, over consumption, over prescribed antibiotics and sedentary lifestyles often cause the human animal to stop working as it should. Result - over sensitisation to dubious inputs (i.e. intolerances) followed by fully blown rejection of same (i.e. allergies).

Typically the conventional medical practitioner struggles to cope with any more than one or two concurrent problems in a patient. "This pill fixes this ailment". But when a patient presents with several interrelated problems with an often at best vague understanding of what is actually related to what the doctor is totally swamped and usually opts for the psychosomatic judgement, often after trying a few quick fixes which only succeeds in making the problem worse.

Granted that the third world person is often verging on starvation and unworried by food allergies and the like but then they aren't exposed to most of the 'progresses' in food technology that we are.

[Pixie]

Okay, you seem to have more answers than the Docs. Can you tell us whats wrong or is the fact that you have the answers all in your head.
So far you've said alot without saying anything.
We'd all like an explanation not more random gobbledygook. we've had speculation and denial for years and comments like your'se sound too much like a continuation. I'd speculate that this sort of medical problem is much more widespread than realised as so many people want to know whats wrong with them but get denial, pchycological b/s, or weird hippy explanations instead of help. These days I'm more inclined to listen to the hippies as at least they acknowledge that it exists.
If I sound a little emotional it's because this unexplained, uncatorgorised illness has wrecked my life, including my ability to ride.So yes I get upset when people start by slagging of the victims.

Never listen to hippies,they's only good for killin'

However,if avoiding something makes you feel better who cares if it's real or a psychological effect?

[Pixie]

Women drinking soya products (all of which contain traces of GM, by the way) need to be wary of the oestrogen levels in soy, which can manifest itself by zitty complexions.

They are only mock oestrogens.

Men drinking soya products (all of which contain traces of GM, by the way) need to be wary of the oestrogen levels in soy, which can manifest itself by the development of titties.

[BuFfY]

Last year they tested me for a gluten intolerance. Thank GOD the tests came out fine. Unfortunatley I am salicylate sensitive. For a few months I was reduced to plain rice, plain meat, water, iceburg lettuce. After 10 days I was able to add in one thing every few days.
Needless to say, I gave up on that all after awhile. I couldn't eat out, I couldn't have easy food, I had to read EVERY packet because there is never ever ever any mention of salicylates in any shops and now I basically eat what I feel like eating, but I generally have to avoid fruit and vegetables because they are the worst for me.

[Virago]

...Being concerned about food safety and suitability is very much a developed western middle-class indulgence. Many of the humans on this planet have no idea where their next meal is coming from, and consequently have no interest whatsoever in things like food allergies, cholesterol or whether products are organically grown by unionised Inuits.

My daughter has encountered a fair amount of scornful dismissal of her allergies, during five years or so of increasing misery. Few people understand the lifestyle difficulties that such allergies cause.

She is currently in Auckland, where she will spend the next three months undergoing treatment for her allergies. Not easy for a (very emotionally young) 21 year old to be away from her family, fiance and friends for that time, but it has to be done. The treatment is costing thousands - guess who is paying...?

As a child, she had a few food allergies that went undiagnosed for some time. In her mid-teens, the allergies worsened. Around that time, she did the teen-girl thing of trying vegetarianism - it didn't last long - it turned out she is allergic to almost everything except red meat...

Test and trials at the Auckland Allergy Clinic have revealed that many of her food allergies could be secondary to her extreme hayfever. Recent studies have shown that treating the primary allergy can result in the marked reduction of wide-ranging food allergies. Her worst allergies (beans, legumes) will likely remain, but it is hoped that the desensitisation process will reduce or eliminate many of the others.

Due to the severity of her condition, we could find no-one south of Auckland willing to treat her, as the treatment carries significant risk of severe anaphylaxis. We can only hope (for her sake) that it works...

In the meantime, if anyone else has family or a friend with worsening food allergies, do they also have chronic hayfever...? If so, get it checked out.

[Big Dog]

Way off what I'd normally expect to find on KB but I have a similar poll running on another forum I belong to and am getting some surprising results.

It seems that eateries increasingly are offering a "gluten free" option on their menus which didn't seem to be the case even 10 years ago. I'm possibly more aware of this as I have learned to live with such dietary 'intolerances' over the past few years but I am curious to find out how many others in the general population have similarly compromised dietary choices.

As with my other poll I will give a multiple choice option to cater for more than one 'vote' per household.
I am not intolerant of any food. All foods should be treated as equals.
I like most.

Okay so I can be a little vitriolic about tripe, But that has to do with it feeling like I am heaving up my bowels in the reslulting vomit not because of any particular predjudice.

[BuFfY]

My daughter has encountered a fair amount of scornful dismissal of her allergies, during five years or so of increasing misery. Few people understand the lifestyle difficulties that such allergies cause.

She is currently in Auckland, where she will spend the next three months undergoing treatment for her allergies. Not easy for a (very emotionally young) 21 year old to be away from her family, fiance and friends for that time, but it has to be done. The treatment is costing thousands - guess who is paying...?

As a child, she had a few food allergies that went undiagnosed for some time. In her mid-teens, the allergies worsened. Around that time, she did the teen-girl thing of trying vegetarianism - it didn't last long - it turned out she is allergic to almost everything except red meat...

Test and trials at the Auckland Allergy Clinic have revealed that many of her food allergies could be secondary to her extreme hayfever. Recent studies have shown that treating the primary allergy can result in the marked reduction of wide-ranging food allergies. Her worst allergies (beans, legumes) will likely remain, but it is hoped that the desensitisation process will reduce or eliminate many of the others.

Due to the severity of her condition, we could find no-one south of Auckland willing to treat her, as the treatment carries significant risk of severe anaphylaxis. We can only hope (for her sake) that it works...

In the meantime, if anyone else has family or a friend with worsening food allergies, do they have chronic hayfever...? Get it checked out.

Other than red meat, what does your daughter eat? And what sort of testing are they doing on her? When they discovered my salicylate sensitivity (it can't be tested using blood or anything) they put me on the elimination diet. The food was boring and depressing but I felt so much better.

[Naki Rat]

......

Test and trials at the Auckland Allergy Clinic have revealed that many of her food allergies could be secondary to her extreme hayfever. Recent studies have shown that treating the primary allergy can result in the marked reduction of wide-ranging food allergies. Her worst allergies (beans, legumes) will likely remain, but it is hoped that the desensitisation process will reduce or eliminate many of the others.

......

Problem is that the primary problem (e.g. hay fever) is constantly causing the body's defences to be in a state of high alert so that otherwise minor allergens then stimulate a far greater reaction than would otherwise be the case. It's all pretty technical but revolves around histamine levels driving allergic responses, and vice versa.

[Virago]

Other than red meat, what does your daughter eat?...

She can eat some fruits and vegetables, provided they are well cooked - nothing raw. Imagine life without being able to eat a piece of fruit... Dairy only in very small doses. Rice is okay.

All seafood is out. A mild reaction to chicken.

Her reactions usually involve a skin rash, swelling (particularly the throat), and vomiting. Going to a restaurant invariably involves leaving early, and lots of roadside stops after...

Her worst allergy is beans (navy beans, kidney beans) - just being in the same room can cause a very noticable reaction. Consuming any will result in immediate anaphylaxis. She carries an "Epi-pen" - a one-shot adrenalin hypodermic - at all times.


...And what sort of testing are they doing on her?...

The main testing involves a "skin-prick" process. Rows of dots are put along the inner arm skin (about 20 or so on each arm). A drop of liquid containing a minute amount of varying allergen is placed on each dot, and then pricked through into the skin. The size of the resulting rash determines the extent of the allergy. Most of Amy's rashes overlapped each other...

The treatment involves being injected each week with specially concocted vials containing the allergens specific to her. The dose is increased over around twelve weeks, until she reaches a "maintenance" level. Injections will then probably continue for two or three years. The early stage is the most critical, and could result in quite severe anaphylactic shock unless carefully managed. Hence the reluctance of the doctors down here to take it on.

The process in called "desensitisation".


Problem is that the primary problem (e.g. hay fever) is constantly causing the body's defences to be in a state of high alert so that otherwise minor allergens then stimulate a far greater reaction than would otherwise be the case. It's all pretty technical but revolves around histamine levels driving allergic responses, and vice versa.

You're on to it. It's a never-ending vicious cycle. The misery caused is quite substantial.

Amy has been on alarmingly huge doses of anti-histamines, but the side-effects from the long-term use of those causes other health problems.

[Naki Rat]

.....

Amy has been on alarmingly huge doses of anti-histamines, but the side-effects from the long-term use of those causes other health problems.

Tends to happen when you [are forced] to treat the symptoms rather than the cause :(

[alanzs]

My daughter has encountered a fair amount of scornful dismissal of her allergies, during five years or so of increasing misery. Few people understand the lifestyle difficulties that such allergies cause.

She is currently in Auckland, where she will spend the next three months undergoing treatment for her allergies. Not easy for a (very emotionally young) 21 year old to be away from her family, fiance and friends for that time, but it has to be done. The treatment is costing thousands - guess who is paying...?

As a child, she had a few food allergies that went undiagnosed for some time. In her mid-teens, the allergies worsened. Around that time, she did the teen-girl thing of trying vegetarianism - it didn't last long - it turned out she is allergic to almost everything except red meat...

Test and trials at the Auckland Allergy Clinic have revealed that many of her food allergies could be secondary to her extreme hayfever. Recent studies have shown that treating the primary allergy can result in the marked reduction of wide-ranging food allergies. Her worst allergies (beans, legumes) will likely remain, but it is hoped that the desensitisation process will reduce or eliminate many of the others.

Due to the severity of her condition, we could find no-one south of Auckland willing to treat her, as the treatment carries significant risk of severe anaphylaxis. We can only hope (for her sake) that it works...

In the meantime, if anyone else has family or a friend with worsening food allergies, do they also have chronic hayfever...? If so, get it checked out.

Wishing your daughter all the best. My daughter has gone through some extremely severe allergy issues (Celiac and Lymes Disease), and still battles to this day, so know you are not alone.

[Hitcher]

Tends to happen when you [are forced] to treat the symptoms rather than the cause

I am reasonably sure that if doctors knew what the cause was, that they would treat it.

[Naki Rat]

That's the problem. As I alluded to in post #30, the medical fraternity tend to struggle with the multifaceted problems they are often faced with in patients that are seriously compromised by allergies. Circular cause and effects scenarios take a bit of understanding when one has been trained in predominantly single illness/cure treatment regimes :doctor:

[Hitcher]

That's the problem. As I alluded to in post #30, the medical fraternity tend to struggle with the multifaceted problems they are often faced with in patients that are seriously compromised by allergies. Circular cause and effects scenarios take a bit of understanding when one has been trained in predominantly single illness/cure treatment regimes

Unfortunately that's as good as it gets until somebody figures out a way of making a correct diagnosis when there are multiple variables.

[Virago]

Unfortunately that's as good as it gets until somebody figures out a way of making a correct diagnosis when there are multiple variables.

Most definitely, under the public health system. We've had to go private (at our own cost) for diagnosis and treatment. Money talks...

The perception of "middle class indulgence" is just one of the public misconceptions. Many have suggested that parents create hyper-allergic children by raising them in an obsessively sterile home - those who have seen our home will have a good laugh about that one...:lol:

[Hitcher]

Many have suggested that parents create hyper-allergic children by raising them in an obsessively sterile home - those who have seen our home will have a good laugh about that one...

I have seen the theory about sterile homes contributing to eczema, but not to hyper-allergies. Either has no supporting science of which I am aware.

[Naki Rat]

I have seen the theory about sterile homes contributing to eczema, but not to hyper-allergies. Either has no supporting science of which I am aware.

The theory is along the lines of immune systems that aren't challenged by household 'bugs' don't develop normally and so then go into overdrive when challenged by substances that wouldn't otherwise be a problem. This sort of allergic response is normally delayed so different to immediate response allergic reactions (which often involve anaphylaxis), but can be serious with repeated exposures. Also eczema is considered an external version of asthma which is often part of an allergic response.

Introduction of some substances to infants' underdeveloped immune systems can also result in allergies to that substance (e.g. chocolate, peanuts, bovine milk) as is the case with my stepson who can't tolerate chocolate for this reason.