Step-up bike - z1000, Bandit 1250?

[mtroskill]

250 to bandit? too much of a jump? heard the "it's all in the wrist" saying plenty of times before and if thats all it comes down to....

From what I hear, the z1000 has a nice flat power curve and I like the upright riding position. BHP similar to a 600 supersports. These are going for 17k new. Was pretty much all set on this until I saw the price on a new bandit 1250.

These by all accounts gets great reviews for what you pay. 98bhp.

If I look purely at bhp, then it would seem ok...

zx10s, gixxers etc are not on the cards at all, but what about a lazier torqier engine?

Chain of thought sort of went like this: > er6n a little plain > z750, not great value compared to z1000 (better suspension etc) > 1250 still up right and about 3k cheaper, with fairing.

I'm 6'4-6'5 btw too...so would be keen on a 600 sportsbike if not so cramped...


I'm still about 5 months away from full, but can't stop dreaming about my next bike!

[discotex]

You need to fill out this questionnaire before the oracle can predict if you will kill yourself in the first 12 months.

1. What bike are you riding now?

2. How old are you?

3. How many km have you done since getting your 6L?

EDIT: 4. Have you had a serious accident on your 250?

[jrandom]

No matter the question, a GSX1400 is always the answer.

:niceone:

[mattian]

going from a 250 to a 600-650- then maybe later a 750-900 is going to be so much more rewarding and satisfying. Get used to riding a thou right away (not recomended) means you're just going to miss out on more fun to be had. Its a bit like marrying your first girlfriend. Don't you want to play the field a little bit first?

[Grumpy]

Usual answer to this one ...... ride them before you buy. It's a fair amount of coin to be spending on someones advice alone. Facts and figures only tell a bit of the story. The seat of your pants will tell you so much more.

That said, perhaps you should add another to your list. The Triumph Street Triple is a little pearler. Had the pleasure of a ride recently and at this stage would be the only bike I would look at changing to. The Z1000 is definately worthy of consideration. We have 2 in our family. Love em. But then I'm possbly a little biased.

[short-circuit]

Rocket III would be a nice manageable step for you :2thumbsup

What about a GN125?

[Mully]

No matter the question, a GSX1400 is always the answer.

May I respectfully direct the honourable OP gentleman to the below link, wherein I wax lyrical with regard to Mr Suzuki's simply awesome GSX1400:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=97553

[mtroskill]

Yup...was liking the street triple until I heard Gubbs story.. (oil leaks)...maybe just a bad apple?.

Most of the 650s (sv/er6) seem boring tbh, and I would rather squeeze into a 600.

Another 5 months of this...seriouslt had so many sleepless nights thinking about it!!...just when I think I have it sorted another one I hadn't thought of enters the fray.

Have also considered the m50 which seems like good value.... but maybe a little dull after a couple of months.

[mrchips]

I hear through the grapevine Honda CB:argh:'s ... are good :laugh:

[mtroskill]

You need to fill out this questionnaire before the oracle can predict if you will kill yourself in the first 12 months.

1. What bike are you riding now?

2. How old are you?

3. How many km have you done since getting your 6L?

EDIT: 4. Have you had a serious accident on your 250?
1. the little ninja 250.
2. 27
3. Only 3.5k - i just dnt like revving the tits off the little thing on the open road.... it's my daily commuter to work

[short-circuit]

Yup...was liking the street triple until I heard Gubbs story.. (oil leaks)...maybe just a bad apple?

Nah - mine too...pieces of crap they are.

Go with the GN

[Hitcher]

If you want a Bandit 1250, I know the garage where the Deal Of The Century is parked.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-206574358.htm

This one is absolutely immaculate.

[Gubb]

Yup...was liking the street triple until I heard Gubbs story.. (oil leaks)...maybe just a bad apple?.

I'm full of shit.

It was just a simple cover leak. Replaced under warranty. Don't let that put you off. RIDE ONE.

[mtroskill]

cool... so howcome you ditched it?

[Gubb]

cool... so howcome you ditched it?

......That's news to me.

[mtroskill]

....back on the list it goes then :)

[discotex]

1. the little ninja 250.
2. 27
3. Only 3.5k - i just dnt like revving the tits off the little thing on the open road.... it's my daily commuter to work

Hmm... Tough call. I'd say marginal depending on your level of self control.

Being 27 you'd probably be smart enough to control the throttle and not go crazy.

But on the other hand 3500km prolly isn't enough time in the saddle to handle that much torque (more the issue than the HP).

In my opinion a >600cc bike has the potential to bite you real bad when you make a mistake due to the torque at low RPM. Also you won't progress as much as a rider skipping straight to a big bike because you'll always be in fear of the power. Or you'll try to use the power and get yourself into shit before you can handle it.

A Z1000 is a hell of a bike. I've only ridden the Z750 would say that was a serious amount of grunt for someone stepping up from a 250 twin. Can't imagine the Bandit 1250 would be any less of a handful.

If I were you I'd go for an naked 600ish then trade up in a year if you really don't think you have enough power. I don't regret going 600 first. Best thing I ever did.

Get out there and test ride some 600's and see what you think. If it's still not enough for you go try the bigger bikes :)

[Timaa]

No matter the question, a GSX1400 is always the answer.

:niceone:

Q: So your mum was a good ride?

A: GSXR 1400

[mtroskill]

mmm...rather be safe than sorry...

will probably look harder at some 2004+ 600 sports bikes now and see if there is one that can accomodate my height.

Street triple heads back towards the top of the list too, and maybe the z750 (if z1000 is a little overkill)....these are the only nakeds that really do it for me.

[discotex]

If you're looking at sports bikes the 2006 or older ZX-6R 636 is fairly roomy.

K7 GSX-R600 has adjustable foot-pegs which might help give you more leg room.

Don't know what your budget is but these would be two of the most fun bikes out there from what I hear.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-200862887.htm

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports//auction-169037067.htm

[jafar]

No matter the question, a GSX1400 is always the answer.

:niceone:

If GSX 1400 is the answer it was a silly question :bash:

[jafar]

250 to bandit? too much of a jump? heard the "it's all in the wrist" saying plenty of times before and if thats all it comes down to....

Chain of thought sort of went like this: > er6n a little plain > z750, not great value compared to z1000 (better suspension etc) > 1250 still up right and about 3k cheaper, with fairing.

I'm 6'4-6'5 btw too...so would be keen on a 600 sportsbike if not so cramped...

I'm still about 5 months away from full, but can't stop dreaming about my next bike!

No it's not all in the wrist, that is a crap saying. it is in the reading of the road & the conditions around you all the time , the 'wrist' is a small factor in the total equation.
ER6n is a big step up from a 250!! Unless your looking to do a LOT of two up touring it is more bike than you will need for a long time.
Don't try & jump straight up to the higher cc bikes thinking that the mid size ones are too slow , they aren't..... On a decent winding road there is not much that will stay with a well ridden 600.
Most 600's will top out over 200kph...... how fast do you want to go ?
Value for money, ease of use & better on fuel economy tyres & maintenance costs than any of the litre+ bikes out there.
Often you will find bigger is just heavier & slower once you get into the fun stuff, those 600's will be laughing @ you as they fly past:Oops:

[mtroskill]

No it's not all in the wrist, that is a crap saying. it is in the reading of the road & the conditions around you all the time , the 'wrist' is a small factor in the total equation.
ER6n is a big step up from a 250!! Unless your looking to do a LOT of two up touring it is more bike than you will need for a long time.
Don't try & jump straight up to the higher cc bikes thinking that the mid size ones are too slow , they aren't..... On a decent winding road there is not much that will stay with a well ridden 600.
Most 600's will top out over 200kph...... how fast do you want to go ?
Value for money, ease of use & better on fuel economy tyres & maintenance costs than any of the litre+ bikes out there.
Often you will find bigger is just heavier & slower once you get into the fun stuff, those 600's will be laughing @ you as they fly past:Oops:


Good advise.. cheers... top speed is not a biggy for me. Would much prefer some low down torque.

Shit..the more I think about it the harder it gets..Might throw the er6f and sv650 back into the mix too then...fairing is handy to have... and these would be tuned more towards around town riding than the sports 600s...

[jafar]

Good advise.. cheers... top speed is not a biggy for me. Would much prefer some low down torque.

Shit..the more I think about it the harder it gets..Might throw the er6f and sv650 back into the mix too then...fairing is handy to have... and these would be tuned more towards around town riding than the sports 600s...

I'm guessing that you have not ridden that many bikes & have become baffled by the bullshit that is spouted about them & probably over analysing the problem.
First you need to stop & think about what you need the bike to do, then factor in what you would like it to do.
Your own size & weight need to be put in there somewhere too.

You won't get a lot of low down torque from a sports bike, they are made for revs, cruisers have low down torque, V twins especially. You havn't listed cruisers in your wish list.

BTW you don't need fairings, they are just for catching bugs.

[discotex]

You won't get a lot of low down torque from a sports bike

It's all relative.

An inline 4 600 (Say GSX-R600 or Hornet 600 for example) still produces a fair whack of torque down low for the weight. It'd be a *very* noticeable increase in torque over a 250 twin like the Ninja 250. It's just not as much as a 650 twin like the SV650 or SV650s. And a big lazy 1200cc cruiser twin is going to eat either for torque.

[Aa7]

<snip> i just dnt like revving the tits off the little thing on the open road.... it's my daily commuter to work

if you dont like revving it hard then why are you looking at inline fours? take a few v-twins for a spin instead but dont neglect the inline fours either (i'm biased and love inline fours) but ride em both and see the differences between the bikes and go from there, take a triple out also since you like the street triple. the more bikes you ride the more you will be able to tell what suits YOU

[short-circuit]

take a triple out also since you like the street triple.

Well he'd better ride the others first otherwise they won't even get a look in.


But be aware that comparing it with a 650 twin is not apples and apples - your looking at a lighter bike with 35 more HP.

[MaxCannon]

If you intend to commute on it my advice would be a mid size all around bike

An SV650 - Excellent all rounder. Easy to handle around town.
Fast enough on the track.

Kawasaki ER6 / Ninja 650. Excellent easy to ride bike. Like an SV650 but different.

Bandit 600 / 650. Cheaper, older design but there isn't anything a Bandit can't do.
Did a 720km round trip to Taupo, around the track and back home a few weeks back. Everything you need and nothing you don't.

The torque and engine response on the regular 600s is probably just about right when coming off a 250.
The Z1000 and Bandit 1250 will be a lot more sensitive to throttle inputs.

One thing is to price up is insurance. Over 750cc and you'll start paying substantially more.
Also - no matter how careful you are you'll probably drop a big bike after coming off a 250. The weight differential between a Ninja 250 and a Bandit 1250 is pretty big.

I'd look for a tidy mid size bike, keep it for 12 months and then look to upgrade again.

[Hitcher]

One thing is to price up is insurance. Over 750cc and you'll start paying substantially more.

Not necessarily. It's the cost of the bike or its parentage that are the major determinants of insurance premiums, not the engine capacity.

[DarkLord]

I currently ride a Hyo 250, I am on my R's (going for full next Thursday) and I've been riding since December '07. Done at least 30,000 k's in that time period. I had one crash in May last year and wrote my bike off, a low speed crash where thankfully no one was hurt.

Last weekend my mate from Auckland came down on his '03 Bandit 1200 and we went and did the Taupo loop together, a 160 k round trip around Lake Taupo. I rode the Bandit and he rode the Hyo. I had no problems handling it at all even though it is substantially heavier than the Hyo, got it round corners easy enough and felt very confident on it.

I can't afford to upgrade right now but once I can I would consider a bandit as my next bike.

[yachtie10]

Just have to say if the bandit 1250 is on your list the issue would be weight ride one and see if it is an issue
The power is there but its very smooth (even compared with bandit 1200) and you have to twist the throttle hard to get into trouble (assuming you know how to ride)

[mtroskill]

....I keep going in circles!

If the Street triple was 2.5k cheaper....
If the er6n wasn't so ugly...
If the z750s suspension wasnt shit....
If the 600s weren't so cramped...
Maybe the 1250 isn't so bad... upright riding position usable and controllable torque, competitive price... maybe a bit big for commuting but good fuel economy.

All speculation until October anyway :)

[DarkLord]

The bandit's are reliable. My mate's one has done about 75,000 k's now and it keeps going strong. However, they are quite pricey in terms of tyres, chains and sprockets - much dearer than your Ninja in that regard.

They usually get between 250 and 300 k's to the tank.

[zeocen]

ER6 boring, it is not.

That is all.

[Gubb]

ER6 boring, it is not.

That is all.

Agreed. It's not a thing of beauty either.

[DingoZ]

Looked at a Bandit 1250s as well when stepping up.

Went with a Suzuki GSX650F.....Check em out....:) I'm glad I did

[short-circuit]

....I keep going in circles!

If the Street triple was 2.5k cheaper....
If the er6n wasn't so ugly...
If the z750s suspension wasnt **censored**....
If the 600s weren't so cramped...
Maybe the 1250 isn't so bad... upright riding position usable and controllable torque, competitive price... maybe a bit big for commuting but good fuel economy.

All speculation until October anyway :)

Ya get what ya pay for - Although with the Striple IMHO you get way more than ya pay for

[YellowDog]

For what it's worth and from my experience: The Bandit 1250 is a great value bike and with the SAT kit, it looks the part too.

It is a very dosile and easy ride. It's 98BHP only come alive at higher revs. A very easy bike to ride slowly until you find your feet (wheels).

So long as you don't do anything stupid, this is abike you could easily learn big bike skills on.

[nallac]

For what it's worth and from my experience: The Bandit 1250 is a great value bike and with the SAT kit, it looks the part too.

It is a very dosile and easy ride. It's 98BHP only come alive at higher revs. A very easy bike to ride slowly until you find your feet (wheels).

So long as you don't do anything stupid, this is abike you could easily learn big bike skills on.

the same could be said of a CB900

[ynot slow]

Bandit 1250 needs decent seat 2 up according to the wife,and I agree as well,after 100-150km arse gets sore,height is good,economy seems ok about 250-300km at average 100-120km even 2 up.Has shit loads of torque,but if solo riding try a 600-750.

[Kirill357]

Nah, go and try zx14, you will be surprised, nothing stands in comparison :niceone:

[Edbear]

Just have to say if the bandit 1250 is on your list the issue would be weight ride one and see if it is an issue
The power is there but its very smooth (even compared with bandit 1200) and you have to twist the throttle hard to get into trouble (assuming you know how to ride)

What planet are you on..? If you're coming off a GixxerThou or a Busa, you COULD say that, but from someone who's been riding since the age of 12 and had a "off and on break" before "returning" in '03 on a GSX600F, I was not coming off a 250, but an XS750 Special, and the 600F had more than enough grunt to get me into trouble!

"Twist the throttle hard" on a 1250 Bandit and you're gonna be in the morgue before your brain has caught up! Yes, I've ridden one along with an M109R and have posted a ride report on KB.


....I keep going in circles!

If the Street triple was 2.5k cheaper....
If the er6n wasn't so ugly...
If the z750s suspension wasnt shit....
If the 600s weren't so cramped...
Maybe the 1250 isn't so bad... upright riding position usable and controllable torque, competitive price... maybe a bit big for commuting but good fuel economy.

All speculation until October anyway :)


Looked at a Bandit 1250s as well when stepping up.

Went with a Suzuki GSX650F.....Check em out....:) I'm glad I did

Yup! But even the "mild" GSX650F is going to have more than twice the grunt of the 250. It would be the ideal bike, though, if mtroskil has maturity and self-control and takes it easy at first. It's not the speed, per se that will kill you, it's not being aware of just how fast you are accelerating and find yourself arriving at a corner 20-30klicks faster than you need to get around it.

When I "twisted the throttle hard" on the GSX600F I was unprepared for the rate of acceleration and had to stab the gear-lever very quickly to keep up with the rev-counter, and was over 180km/h in what seemed like an eye-blink! After 3 years on it I was feeling comfortable with the power and while I could have handled more, (the M109R was highly addictive!), I know that 80hp is more than enough to thrill and kill on NZ roads!


For what it's worth and from my experience: The Bandit 1250 is a great value bike and with the SAT kit, it looks the part too.

It is a very dosile and easy ride. It's 98BHP only come alive at higher revs. A very easy bike to ride slowly until you find your feet (wheels).

So long as you don't do anything stupid, this is abike you could easily learn big bike skills on.

I feel your experience is what counts - honestly, we're talking to a relatively new rider with not much experience coming off a 250... Are you sure a 1250 Bandit is okay..?

[discotex]

If the 600s weren't so cramped...

If you're comfortable on a Ninja 250R you'd probably be ok on the 07-09 CBR600RR.

The 600's aren't *that* bad.

[mtroskill]

250r is more upright..sat on a new zx6 today and my head was almost horizontal with the windshield, same with the gsxr.... older model didn't feel as bad...maybe it was a 636...

The 1250 ticks pretty much all the boxes (price, looks, riding position), but spose you have to walk before you can run :(

[Ragingrob]

Have you ridden a bigger bike before at all? The differences from a 250 are undescribable... My 400 can get to 100kph in first gear in a few seconds, and that's a 400! The same twist of my wrist on a 600 sports, not to mention anything around the litre mark, will have either the bike flying out from under me, or the speedo clicking over 200kph VERY quickly!

Have you thought about the bandit 600? Or the hornet 600? I would think both those bikes have a bit of room, more than the faired sports 600s anyway.

As already mentioned, the gsx600f or something like the older CBRs etc aren't quite so head down arse up.

You must at least manage on your current bike in terms of size, even a VFR400 which is a small bike is still a noticeable bit bigger than the 250s.

I'd say find a bike that is more forgiving than what you've mentioned, even if for only a few months, then feel free to step up after that if you still decide to do so.

[YellowDog]

Just have to say if the bandit 1250 is on your list the issue would be weight ride one and see if it is an issue
The power is there but its very smooth (even compared with bandit 1200) and you have to twist the throttle hard to get into trouble (assuming you know how to ride)
Only you know yourself and how able you are to keep control and dapt to something new.

I spoke with a cop today asking why the Greenhithe Road was closed preventing me riding down. He showed me a smashed up Subaru Impreza smashed up in a ditch. I said 'Bloody Kids eh!', he said, 'No, it was a 40 year old married man'. 'What a tosser' I said.

It's not your age that counts, it's your maturity and control.

[MaxCannon]

I'd still be inclined to recommend a bike in the 500-650cc range, and I'd exclude all the supersports (R6, ZX6 etc) because of the seating positions (and to a lesser extent the power).

I went 250 > 400 > 600

The 250 was small, light, easy to handle, had piss weak power and poor brakes.
It was easy to ride and I never crashed it.
A couple of times I came close but a mix of luck and a bike with so little power had me staying upright.

The 400 was much heavier, it made double the power but it was all at the redline. Hardly any torque to speak of which meant you could mash the throttle without fear of the front end coming up of the back spinning out.
I dropped it once because I wasn't expecting it to be so damn heavy.
It scared the shit out of me when I twisted the throttle going round a corner and got way more power than I was expecting.
On a bigger bike I'd have been down the cliff or head on into traffic.
Speed was much higher. It would do 180kph and get there damn quick.
Despite shitty torque it was a rocket between 10k and 14k.
Because cornering speed was much higher the handling character was vastly different, I now had to worry about weight transfer, front end running wide, back end twitching etc
It also had crappy brakes and taught me how to survive corners when you come in about 40kph too hot and can't slow down.

The 600 weighs about the same as the 400 did. It's got almost 4 times the power of the 250
Because I learnt some very valuable lessons on the 400 I haven't scared myself stupid on it.
It will do 220kph and gets to 200 in the time the 250 took to get to 100.
It's got quite good brakes. In fact I just about went over the bars when I pulled the lever as hard I was used to and got much more stopping power than I was expecting.
It makes a lot more torque than my two earlier bikes. If I grab too much throttle it lifts the front.
If I twisted the grip like I rode the 250 I'd probably be in hospital.
In the wet it will spin up the rear, something the 250 and the 400 never did.

While some people may step off a light weight lower power 250 onto a 1000+ and never have a problem my view is that you are missing out on a lot of learning along the way.
On a wet roundabout when someone doesn't indicate and is coming straight towards you having the experience to know how much throttle / brake / lean you can apply is the difference between riding home and getting a gift basket in hospital.

[chanceyy]

I went from a RZ 350 straight to a Bandit 1200. when I was test riding tried the bandit 600 .. however on some great advice from guys I ride with they suggested I try a 1200 .. (had not considered it before)

When I discussed with my mentor, he said I would find the 600 pretty vanilla pretty quickly however it might take 12 months to get comfortable on the bandit 1200 but I will never outgrow it ..

so far he has been right .. it look a good 5000 ks to get really comfortable with the power/weight of the bike esp as its quite top heavy but on the road just beautiful. I pretty much stuck to around the speed limit & got used to that lovely roll on power for a few months .. then slowly progressed as I got used to the bike and its ability

so I can recommend it .. but like others have said depends on how you will handle the bike .. total control in the wrist .. as long as your prepared to take the time it takes to make that step up then do it .. if your not that controlled then move up in stages may be a better option for you.. however test riding is always your friend .. I rode my first bandit & knew it was the bike for me .. its been :love: ever since .. and our 1st yr anniversary this friday :clap:

[DarkLord]

I gotta agree with the previous posts, 3.5k isn't a lot if you are already thinking of upgrading....

My first blast on a bigger bike was in October last year (Bandit 1200) and I knew when I rode the thing that I was nowhere near ready for a bigger bike, and I'd done probably 15,000 k's by that point.

Only a week or so ago when I rode the same Bandit again did I realize I'm now ready to upgrade. I've talked to riders who have said they actually wished they'd spent more time on their 250s before getting bigger bikes.

I really wouldn't be too hasty from jumping off the 250 onto something bigger, even once you do get your full. Your life is at stake. Enjoy the 250 while you have it, and use it to learn as much as you can about bikes and how to ride them. That experience will prove invaluable once you do upgrade.

[mynameis]

The Triumph Street Triple is a little pearler. Had the pleasure of a ride recently and at this stage would be the only bike I would look at changing to.



If only those big eyes didn't look so real, it's seems like it would come up alive sometime and talk to you saying hi I am Street Tripple.

Kinda scary really otherwise I'd get it :D I'd be scared to keep her in the garage at night :lol:

Bo0o0..

[Manix48]

....I keep going in circles!

If the Street triple was 2.5k cheaper....
If the er6n wasn't so ugly...
If the z750s suspension wasnt shit....
If the 600s weren't so cramped...
Maybe the 1250 isn't so bad... upright riding position usable and controllable torque, competitive price... maybe a bit big for commuting but good fuel economy.

All speculation until October anyway :)

I'll throw in my two cents.....

I went from 250 2smokes to a VTR1000. Took it real easy to begin with as you do have have a big size/power difference. A mate of mine then bought an r6 a couple years later and after taking that for a spin I would have to say that they were too light for the power that they produce. I would end up on my arse if I had one of those. At least with the bigger bikes you do FEEL the power as it comes on. Just my experience. I also am looking at getting the Bandit SAT model later on in the year. Well priced and will have the co-pilot with me (as Big Dave puts it) for most of the time, so the 1250's torque will come in useful.

Good luck with YOUR final decision! :crazy: