How good is the Disputes Tribunal? [Archive]

cave weta

24th April 2009, 11:04

Mobile Mechanic 4U Ltd - Silverdale who did my engine job on my 4x4 van gave me a 10,000 km written warranty on his work.
at 3200 km the cam belt leapt off cos he had not tightened the adjuster up and munched the head- valves rockers and cam.

after initially admitting liability and promising to be here twice to get it sorted, he is now screening his calls and and emails and ignoring me. I have waited 5 weeks now.

Two weeks ago I told him via email that unless he is here within 7 days to fix it I will get it done elsewhere and take him to disputes tribunal to pay the bill.
still no contact.
Motor is now repaired- $3800 plus two days of hire vehicle.

What are my chances of a judgment in my favour? :buggerd:

Mully

24th April 2009, 11:08

I would have thought your chances were pretty good. He gave you a written warranty and you have given him the chance to fix it himself.

I've only ever used the Disputes Tribunal as a threat (serve the papers and watch them pay up, quick smart......)

Is he a member of the MTA or something similar too? Fair Go is always an option as well.

Katman

24th April 2009, 11:10

BOGAR

24th April 2009, 11:33

It certainly sounds as though it should go in your favour but........

Having been fucked over in the Disputes Tribunal before I have no faith in JP's ability to get anything right. They don't even have to follow the letter of the law. They hear the facts and then seems to make their decision based on which person they like the most.

Like Katman I too have not have it go my way but I will say the more information you can show for the case (anything and everything that supports it, emails, times of calls, anything in writing..) the better the chance. (And once again) don't play nice, I did and got completely screwed over by the lady giving allot of BS about my state of mind etc which had nothing to do with the fact SHE pulled out in front of me or even that case at all. :girlfight: From memory you go first so they get to shoot you down after wards with all sorts of BS which i found hard to take.

MadDuck

24th April 2009, 11:55

...depends on who is adjudicating and what they had for lunch and whether they got a bit last night quite frankly.

It doesnt cost much and is worth a shot. You can fill out and file the papers yourself at North Shore District Court.

Take as many copies of emails, correspondance, invoices, letters etc BUT even if you are legally in the right it may not go your way.

Good luck

Boob Johnson

24th April 2009, 12:01

Like Katman I too have not have it go my way but I will say the more information you can show for the case (anything and everything that supports it, emails, times of calls, anything in writing..) the better the chance. (And once again) don't play nice, I did and got completely screwed over by the lady giving allot of BS about my state of mind etc which had nothing to do with the fact SHE pulled out in front of me or even that case at all. :girlfight: From memory you go first so they get to shoot you down after wards with all sorts of BS which i found hard to take.
Like Katman & Bogar, I too have had a DT go the wrong way. It really is hit & miss but in saying that if the facts are as you say then you have a pretty good shot I would say.

Serve the papers & see what happens. Apparently the guilty party often pays up when pressed this way :niceone:

Mole_C

24th April 2009, 12:12

I've used it twice and happy both times. Got full amount I claimed for the first time and the second time Telecom gave in as soon as they got the papers :)

madmal64

24th April 2009, 13:25

pzkpfw

24th April 2009, 13:26

...cos he had not tightened the adjuster up...

Did you get this confirmed by a third party?

(It might be obvious to you, but not to a J.P.)

cave weta

24th April 2009, 14:44

Did you get this confirmed by a third party?

(It might be obvious to you, but not to a J.P.)

The Mechanic still has my digital camera at his workshop but when I go and get it it has photos that I will post here- the adjuster is fretted and rubbed where it has been flopping back and forth till the bolt fell out completely and it dropped off . clear as day when you see it.

Mechanic explained that when they assemble the cambelt onto the wheels, they back the adjuster off and fit belt - then alow the spring to take up the slack and set the timing then lock up the adjuster bolts. That is the part he didnt do. the adjuster was just sitting with its spring holding it in place. eventually - ( 3200km) the mounting bolts vibrated out and it let go!

Blatman

24th April 2009, 14:58

Most of the time they go 50\50 so make sure you up your claim to the max!

slofox

24th April 2009, 15:05

Have once used DT. With results in my favour and full claim awarded. I bought along tonnes of evidence plus witnesses. No problem.

Katman

24th April 2009, 16:39

The Mechanic still has my digital camera at his workshop but when I go and get it it has photos that I will post here

I would be getting it back ASAP. Otherwise, you might just find that suddenly your digital camera seems to have lost those photos.

MSTRS

24th April 2009, 17:05

I think he means the second mechanic, not the memory-challenged one...

kevfromcoro

24th April 2009, 17:09

Just been down that track.....

found the judge quite fair,, but it is all based on the facts in front of her..

i took my accountant to the DT,,
he turned up with a laptop and a briefcase full of goodies ...got shot to peices..

just make sure you have plenty of amo before you go.

written better..................

cave weta

24th April 2009, 17:14

I think he means the second mechanic, not the memory-challenged one...

Ha ha - correct!- new mechanic has the camera for recording evidence...I havent seen the dude from Silverdale since I paid him!

the shop who has the van now is doing his very best to get parts at the best prices. he rang 7 suppliers before ordering the bits.

Im confident that I will win - I doubt the guy will even drive down 200km to attend the hearing. Im just worried that there may be ways for him to avoid paying. Surely the system will follow through?

trustme

24th April 2009, 17:20

Used them a few times and all good on the outcome.
I have found that as long as there is a paper trail and things are in writing it makes things so much easier. Witnesses to any verbal conversations in dispute can be called. so make sure they are available.
If you can eliminate as much of the I said/he said stuff as possible it makes the whole process a hell of a lot easier.

Best post here by a country mile. It can work but you have to have your act / info together & all ducks in a row or it will be a total lottery.
In my case legally I was right & lawyer said go to court , went straight to court & the judge fucked up & sent us to disputes tribunal.
Produced complete paper trail ,we won & were awarded interest on the outstanding debt. The court was wrong but the disputes tribunal got it right in the end

dipshit

24th April 2009, 17:27

Having been fucked over in the Disputes Tribunal before I have no faith in JP's ability to get anything right. They don't even have to follow the letter of the law. They hear the facts and then seem to make their decision based on which person they like the most.

You obviously didn't give the JP the secret Freemason signal. :psst:

MSTRS

24th April 2009, 17:31

Im confident that I will win - I doubt the guy will even drive down 200km to attend the hearing. Im just worried that there may be ways for him to avoid paying. Surely the system will follow through?

Even with a judgement in your favour, actually getting money out of the 'defendent' is not always easy. Lots of horror stories about that state of affairs.

barty5

24th April 2009, 17:52

Ha ha - correct!- new mechanic has the camera for recording evidence...I havent seen the dude from Silverdale since I paid him!

the shop who has the van now is doing his very best to get parts at the best prices. he rang 7 suppliers before ordering the bits.

Im confident that I will win - I doubt the guy will even drive down 200km to attend the hearing. Im just worried that there may be ways for him to avoid paying. Surely the system will follow through?

He wont have to drive all the way down once over 100ks(could be 150ks) they allow tyou to go the the nearest court and do phone conference.

cave weta

24th April 2009, 17:57

He wont have to drive all the way down once over 100ks(could be 150ks) they allow tyou to go the the nearest court and do phone conference.

Oh thats cool... they can listen to him mumble on about being a useless mechanic who wont honour warrantees or return calls!

kevfromcoro

24th April 2009, 17:59

He wont have to drive all the way down once over 100ks(could be 150ks) they allow tyou to go the the nearest court and do phone conference.

well yeah he can do that....

but its not half as good as turning up on the day........

Mom

24th April 2009, 18:14

Surely the system will follow through?

Sorry to read you are having to deal with this bunch of shite mate. The DT is largely a fair and balanced process, but... It is very PC in a lot of ways, and everyone is given endless time to "have their say" before a decision is made. Stick to the facts and the evidence you have and you should be ok.

As far as the followup on any judgement, that will fall to you. The Tribunal will make an award and it will be legaly binding, but that does not mean you will get any money. If they dont pay there is a whole new range of procedures you will need to follow to get anything.

Lets hope it does not come to that eh, and you get full and final judgement for all the costs and then full and final payment in settlement. If it turns to crap, flick me a PM, I have a tiny bit of experience in chasing down legally binding debt.

EJT

24th April 2009, 18:35

If it is as you say and an independent third party believes the damage was caused by the mechanic then you have a good chance.

You are probably covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act, so do some preparation and have some law supporting your case to give to the Tribunal because if the Judge ignores the law after it has been presented to them that gives you one of the few grounds for appeal.

MadDuck

24th April 2009, 20:07

if the Judge ignores the law after it has been presented to them that gives you one of the few grounds for appeal.

It is not heard by a judge and their decision is not able to be appealed. So get it right as you can first time.

Maybe I have just had a bad run but I have had the last two cases not ending with the result actually asked for despite all the legal documents god sent us to prove the case.

awayatc

24th April 2009, 20:15

people pay because they want to (obviously not the case with your "mechanic")
Or they pay because they are afraid of the consequences if they don't.....
(tribunals being only one way of trying to achieve this..)

Good luck

Skyryder

25th April 2009, 12:17

If you win and fail to get the money see a solicitor and get a caveat on his house. When he comes to sell he will not be able too. This puts you back in charge. Go for fees and everything else.

And start to keep a diary of what was said by whom.

Skyryder

MadDuck

25th April 2009, 17:13

get a caveat on his house. When he comes to sell he will not be able too.

Unless the secured creditor (i.e. Mortgage lender) has a higher debt outstanding than the property sells for. In this current market it is quite possible. Then the caveat is next to useless!

EJT

26th April 2009, 12:36

It is not heard by a judge and their decision is not able to be appealed. So get it right as you can first time.

Ok Referee not Judge - but you can appeal - section 50 Disputes Tribunal Act:

"Appeals (1) Any party to proceedings before a Tribunal may appeal to a District Court against an order made by the Tribunal ...

(a) The Referee fails to have regard to any provision of any enactment that is brought to the attention of the Referee at the hearing; and (b) As a result of that failure, the result of the proceedings is unfair to the appellant."

Hence the reason for bringing the law to their attention so they can't disregard it and make a decision based on who dresses the nicest!!

boman

26th April 2009, 15:59

Fair Go can be an option. Sometimes a phonecall from them is enough to get money out of anybody.

Max Preload

26th April 2009, 16:32

If you win and fail to get the money see a solicitor and get a caveat on his house. When he comes to sell he will not be able too. This puts you back in charge.

It's highly unlikely he's a sole trader and this is the only scenario in which this will work. He'll only be an employee or director.

cave weta

6th June 2009, 18:04

madmal64

6th June 2009, 18:10

Good on ya for going through with it.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread I find this process good for sorting this stuff out.
Now the fun will start. Getting the payout from a guy that is a no show will take some grit and determination. Stick to it and make sure the court system hound him until you get what you are after.

FROSTY

6th June 2009, 18:16

pretty stupid of the guy not trying to sort you out before it went to court. Good luck ol son getting the money . (no sarcasm in my keystrokes)

Gareth51

6th June 2009, 21:18

Only used them once,against a property developer with success.I asked for costs plus interest.He was told If payment wasn't made by the 20th it would would be added.Had a cheque within a few days.
The worst part was sitting opposite him in the waiting room and not wanting to flaten him. :bash:

ynot slow

6th June 2009, 22:22

Cool outcome.

Rayray401

6th June 2009, 22:38

hmm..just wondering though..if the DT doesnt go your way..and you are obviously in favour...could you get an appeal? or take him to a real court etc.?

cave weta

7th June 2009, 09:17

hmm..just wondering though..if the DT doesnt go your way..and you are obviously in favour...could you get an appeal? or take him to a real court etc.?

Now that the decision is made- he could appeal but he has no grounds. that would be a waste of time so they wouldnt uphold it.
The dispute is no longer a dispute- I has been settled and he has lost. If he does not pay within 14 days he is in the court system witha distress warrent which means goods to the value in his possession can be siezed. He will pay

p.dath

7th June 2009, 09:27

The Mechanic still has my digital camera at his workshop but when I go and get it it has photos that I will post here- the adjuster is fretted and rubbed where it has been flopping back and forth till the bolt fell out completely and it dropped off . clear as day when you see it.

Mechanic explained that when they assemble the cambelt onto the wheels, they back the adjuster off and fit belt - then alow the spring to take up the slack and set the timing then lock up the adjuster bolts. That is the part he didnt do. the adjuster was just sitting with its spring holding it in place. eventually - ( 3200km) the mounting bolts vibrated out and it let go!

I would get the mechanic to swear an affidavit as well. Otherwise it is hear say.

scracha

7th June 2009, 10:50

Well
His advice is give him the 14 days to pay and if he doesnt. Slam him with a distress warrent and get his work truck and tools confiscated. that makes em pay real quick he says:yes:

Glad it all worked out for ya. I can understand taking away his telly, beer fridge and porsche but can they really confiscate someone's tools of trade? Even bankrupcy can't do that. Point being that if you take away someone's tools then there's no way they can pay you back.

Max Preload

7th June 2009, 13:18

If he does not pay within 14 days he is in the court system witha distress warrant which means goods to the value in his possession can be seized. He will pay.

All in very good theory. In practice the 'justice' system gives much greater precedence to what is owed them (fines) than what is owed you (reparation or judgements). The fact they write off so many fines each year as simply uncollectable gives you a good idea of how successful the OP will be if the mechanic just decides not to pay. However, he may not know this and will simply cough up. Fingers crossed.

Edit: Don't forget to give him his deserved feedback! http://www.nocowboys.co.nz

cave weta

7th June 2009, 14:20

I would get the mechanic to swear an affidavit as well. Otherwise it is hear say.

I took the letter from the new mechanic and the adjuster itself into the hearing. The Judge was well up with mechanical things and understood straight away.:niceone:

Glad it all worked out for ya. I can understand taking away his telly, beer fridge and porsche but can they really confiscate someone's tools of trade? Even bankrupcy can't do that. Point being that if you take away someone's tools then there's no way they can pay you back.

They take whatever he has in his possesion that is worth money- whether he says " that's my flatmates" or my mum gave me that for my birthday" or whatever. This guy is a real wheeler- dealer. He has loads of stuff on trademe all the time. have a look Baldrick48
He has until the 19th of this month to pay.....

Mom

7th June 2009, 16:13

Well The hearing was on friday morning.
The useless prick didnt even turn up!- I win!!:wari::wari::wari:
The dude at the disputes tribunal was very helpfull and has given me all the tricks.
His advice is give him the 14 days to pay and if he doesnt. Slam him with a distress warrent and get his work truck and tools confiscated. that makes em pay real quick he says:yes:

So ill keep this thread up to date with any developments.

Cheers and thanks for everyones advice, concerns, information on the dude and PMs of support. you guys rock!:woohoo:

Dont what ever you do relax the pressure on this wanker to pay you. I have found that people in his situation often dont pay because they know you have to do all the chasing to get yiur money and hope you will get sick of the hole thing and walk away from it. Good luck with it, distress warrants are fun :yes: