Child support?

[MadDuck]

Had a staff member over the last couple of weeks has had HIS visitation rights taken away by his ex. Now this guy is a loving father and wants to spend time with his son. Used to have the boy on equal time and paid for him while he was in his care.

It turned nasty with the ex and this week we get a notice telling us to take $$$xxxx from his pay from the IRD. Now this is based purely on % of his income. Nothing to do with his current mortgage and commitments or how much it actually costs to raise a child.

Its not that he doesnt want to pay but it seems that poor joe on the benefit has to pay way less than someone who is working for a living. This guy made a comment to me along the lines of "why work to better yourself if the IRD want to take it all"

Has anyone ever challenged a Child Support deduction? How easy or tough is it? I dont want to get into a he is wrong she is right. He wants to see the lad.

[Mom]

My advice to your worker would be ask for a review. Wont make a blind bit of difference though. His ex will be on the DPB. As a consequence of that he has been named father to the kids. As a non custodial parent he has to pay 18%(minimum) of his wages to the IRD regardless of his own personal situation.

Some non custodial parents have been about beggared by their Child Support payments DAMHIK.

[MadDuck]

That what has me a bit annoyed. So it takes 18% of your income to support a child.

Doesnt matter if you earn $20k a year or $100k a year. Its still 18%. I dont get it.

[98tls]

Would make sense that a guy on the benefit pays less than a guy working i suppose but what about the "working for familys" facade,wouldnt that cover all?Seems ironic that the IRD are demanding money from him that works whilst at the same time everyone else that works is donating to the upbringing of this countrys youth theres or not,how much more can be needed?

[FJRider]

Tell HIM to sue for custody of the child. He goes on the benefit... she pays him... from hers...

[MadDuck]

He is more than willing to pay a fair amount and doesnt want to put the boy through the trauma of a custody battle. He is not trying to avoid his responsibilities but how can it be fair that it is income based?

He has three other children to a new marriage and they will also now suffer hugely.

[FJRider]

He is more than willing to pay a fair amount and doesnt want to put the boy through the trauma of a custody battle. He is not trying to avoid his responsibilities but how can it be fair that it is income based?

He has three other children to a new marriage and they will also now suffer hugely.

It is fair that every non-custodial parent... is in exactly the same position.... shafted by IRD.

Like it or lump it... it is law. IRD are not known for their flexability..

[Trumpess]

He needs to ask for a review MD.
He has other dependants with his lady and kids.
And if he has a mortgage, they take that into consideration aswell in his living expenses, which is only a certian amount.
Its a rigmarole to go through, but it is worth it in the long run.
Some peoples payments are extreme!

[MadDuck]

Like it or lump it... it is law.

Maybe its about time for a change now we have gotten rid of the touchy feely pc shitty labour gummint.

[FJRider]

WOT SHE SAID... worth a shot. Use the system...

[FJRider]

Maybe its about time for a change now we have gotten rid of the touchy feely pc shitty labour gummint.

You think the "new" crew will be any different, I don't...

[MadDuck]

You think the "new" crew will be any different, I don't...

Oppps didnt want this to become a political debate as such. BUT yes I bloody well hope so! OR I wouldnt have voted for them

[Howie]

Hi MadDuck, Have a look at the links on this page, has a lot of info about child support. http://www.ird.govt.nz/childsupport/

I am on the oppisite side of the child support battle, where I only get the min payment of about $70 a month as my ex isn't working, it is really a policy/ law that needs looking at and updating. I think you'll find he gets a living allowance of so many thousand depending on situation, then pays between 18-30% of earnings over that up to about $80,000 from memory. mind you I haven't looked into it for years.

[SMOKEU]

What really fucks me off is when stupid sluts breed like fucking rabbits and expect everyone else to pay for them while they sit on their lazy asses all day smoking pot and not even looking after the kid properly. Put the dick down, get a job and earn an honest living like the rest of us and pay for your own shit bitch.

[White trash]

As a single male, everything he earns above (I think) twelve K will have to be paid @ 18% of his earnings. The first twelve grand is what IRD states should be a single mans living expenses. WTF?

Be thankfull the poor bugger doesn't have two kids, 24% then.

What really grinds my gears, and is a seperate issue but sort of related, is that if you want your kids to live with you full time as a bloke, the only way to get custody as primary care giver is to absolutely assasinate the mothers character and prove she's a bad mother. Doesn't matter that the kids would be better of and have a better quality of life living with their father, she's got to be an absolute shit of a crack whore before the courts will rule in favour of the father, and even that's no garuntee as a friend has recently found out.

I believe that if a father fights for the custody of his children due to concerns for their well being, and is denied by the courts, he should not have to pay child support.

[James Deuce]

He's fucked. Best bet is to leave the country and go start a new life somewhere else.

I've two mates who've had to do that. IRD was taking more than one of them was earning and no amount of pleading from his employer would fix it, and the other was having 76% of his pay removed, again a bungle that IRD wouldn't fix.

In both cases the ex had an affair and booted the bloke out. In my limited experience, I wouldn't be trying to fight IRD as they have the power to fabricate a "reasonable" response based on "rules" we aren't privy to.

[yungatart]

My son pays huge amounts of Child Support for kids that he doesn't see, as their mother makes life way too difficult and the kids end up wearing it.
Most unfair, but then the IRD is not known for its fairness...despite their slogan.
At times, he has so little left, he goes to his Nana's for tea, cos he can't afford food.
He has asked for reviews and never been successful.

[lb99]

if you try for a review due to hardship, one of the hoops you will have to jump through is to provide a rundown of your icome and expenses, WHICH YOUR EX WILL GET TO SEE, as she has to help "them" come up with a realistic figure........

how is this for a shit deal,
when I split with my ex(she fucked off when I ran out of money), she had exhausted all possible avenues of credit under my name.
one day she picked a fight, then upped and left(I wasnt actually too worried) but then the debt collectors rolled up, and rolled up, and rolled up

so I had ten years of summery installments to make, after having to sell absolutely everything(bailiffs even wanted to take my old bed ffs), on top of a crippiling cs bill(because I also had to repay 50k to various places), after going to court to try for some money from her, all she got lumped with was some parking tickets to pay

I have started again, while repaying this debt, and bringing up a family the right way, we all had to suffer while she lived in reletive luxury swanning off to aus whenever she wants ect...while we eat 2 min noodles for a week.

then to top it off, I finally knocked over the last of the debt last week, only have cs payments now.
SHE ROCKS UP IN A 25k SV6 COMMODORE
boy says the wrote a check for it.

I am beyond caring, but my wife is livid, she's absolutely spewing after the shit we have been dragged though.

quite funny though, my boy(12) told his stepmum(my wife) that they only brought a commie because we have a falcon (its the rivallrey thing how pathetic) but her falcon is cooler "coz sometimes you do burnouts, aye" and he's allowed to eat in it

so there, child support is not so bad, its a good idea, but the way it is policed is sometimes quite callous and insensitive.....

[lb99]

oh, by the way, ird cs are waaaaaay better to deal with than 10 years ago, back then if you had an issue as a paying dad they would atomatically assume that you were trying to do the bunk and hit you harder

[ynot slow]

Seriously women wonder why guys go and shoot their kids and themselves,because the dad is denied access,but has to pay support.Seems if I can't see them you can't,friggen sad that happens.

I look at the money paid was my second mortgage,as sure the kids are better with their mum(girls),andno judge would give kids to the dad,assuming both are capable,but mums will get kids 90% of time,but I was able to see them,not the same though when you tuck them into bed and have to go home,I liked the beauty of seeing them asleep,but missed the stupid little things they do.

[alanzs]

He is more than willing to pay a fair amount and doesnt want to put the boy through the trauma of a custody battle. He is not trying to avoid his responsibilities but how can it be fair that it is income based?

He has three other children to a new marriage and they will also now suffer hugely.

It isn't fair at all. I suspect that there was never any intention to make it "fair." While I have nothing to base this on, I tend to believe that there is a part of society that thinks if you divorce your spouse (especially if you are male), you are bad, and therefore, you will pay, fair or not. IMHO...

[James Deuce]

It isn't fair at all. I suspect that there was never any intention to make it "fair." While I have nothing to base this on, I tend to believe that there is a part of society that thinks if you divorce your spouse (especially if you are male), you are bad, and therefore, you will pay, fair or not. IMHO...

No you're completely wrong there, it's entirely about what gender you are.

[Lias]

Its quicker and easier to kill the ex and the kids. Sure you might get caught, but hey you get a free vacation in a luxury hotel/prison with bigscreen tv's, playstations, 3 square meals a day etc, Financially you'll probably be better off than having paid 18 years of child support if you sold all your posessions and invested the money whilst inside, even with no income in jail.

:Police:

[Quasievil]

mmmmm yup admin review as above SHE gets to see all your expenses thats private in my view but its a open book but ONE WAY, not fair.

its a hard road and a long one to endure, you get poor and they get rich, the Custodial parents situation is irrelevant they could be millionaires but the non custodial parent still pays a fortune and you cannot fight it.

Best thing for him is to be employed as a self employed person and get as many deductions as possible to reduce the yearly income level this helps makes the payments lower

The other thing (prob not poss) is to try and get s agreement between him and her for an agreed amount based on factors like real expenses, time spent with each parent etc, this is a dream tho I guess in this case, this can be a better system if available.

If you can get 40% of the nights as the custodian Im sure the payments reduce significantly also this maybe an option

Good luck with it it will be hard on him and it WILL limit his ability to improve his lot for years to come, current system is floored unfair and it stinks of PC bullshit and is typical of the MAN HATING agendas put through by hairy arm pitted lesbian politicians of years gone by ooooooooooooo Im getting angry lol

[allycatz]

IRD will always assess you at the max first off...they work on the theory thats how they get peoples attention...go onto the IRD website and theres a self assessment section where you can put in no dependants etc and it may show a different figure to pay..theres several grounds for re assessment too. I get pissed off cos I pay CS but kids are continually being with held from me

[fire eyes]

Im in two situations .. the Australian Child Support collects money off my ex-husband .. and I pay child support for my eldest daughter who lives in NZ .. now regarding ex-hubby .. I guess I am a nice person as I have gone into a voluntary private arrangment (where both me and hubby decide ona figure and he pays me directly) because AU IRDs assessment for two kids was 650 a month for the kids but NZ IRD take 450 a fortnight .. exchange plus admin costs or something? .. so as a means to ease his financial predicament I opted for the voluntary payments. I pay child support for my eldest daughter in NZ (she lives with my mother) .. I have not had an issue paying my income assessed payments, be nice if it wasn't so much but I just do it as shes my daughter. My eldest comes over every school holidays. Personal commitment is not taken into account when they assess.

[Usarka]

Tell HIM to sue for custody of the child. He goes on the benefit... she pays him... from hers...

He probably has too much of a concscience, self esteem and honesty to bludge, so will pay with his hard earned $$$.

[davebullet]

He has three other children to a new marriage and they will also now suffer hugely.

On that basis alone he can apply for a review.

If he can prove he is supporting a new family with other dependents, then he should be able to reduce payments for his previous child.

The other way to look at it, is hopefully his ex puts the money towards good use for his child. I am lucky in that my ex does exactly that. She is a great mum.

[MadDuck]

I dont have kids and have no understanding of what most of the guys go through until I see it.

Thanks for your responses. I will pass them on. Just not damn fair this system!

[cowboyz]

If you are a guy you are fucked. End of story.

I say if a relationship breaks up and some bitch wants to take the car then she should pay for that car and all its running expenses. Same for the children. Children should not be allowed to be used as barginning chips. I pay more for 1 child who doesnt live with us than I do to support the 2 kids that I have at home.

[FJRider]

I dont have kids and have no understanding of what most of the guys go through until I see it.

Thanks for your responses. I will pass them on. Just not damn fair this system!

Most citizen's advice centres, have a free legal advice sessions with lawyers, at various times. I might suggest your friend goes to one, and asks when/if they hold similar sessions.

[davebullet]

First things guys have to understand, the money is going towards the children. If you think you are "paying your ex" (which you are not) then you'll hold a grudge against her for no reason.

If you feel she is spending the money unwisely, then suggest you both share in the usual out of house expenses. She may think you are taking control and refuse this, but it is worth suggesting.

[MSTRS]

First things guys have to understand, the money is going towards the children. If you think you are "paying your ex" (which you are not) then you'll hold a grudge against her for no reason.


This is only true if she is not on a benefit. And then only if she is ethical about it. How many times do we see her in a new car, lots of shit on HP etc, whilst your kids still only have what they did when you were there?
If she is on a benefit, then 'your contribution' goes direct to the Govt coffers. Theoretically, it is possible for you to pay more than she receives in benefits. How fair is that?

[cowboyz]

First things guys have to understand, the money is going towards the children. If you think you are "paying your ex" (which you are not) then you'll hold a grudge against her for no reason.

If you feel she is spending the money unwisely, then suggest you both share in the usual out of house expenses. She may think you are taking control and refuse this, but it is worth suggesting.

Could one of the mods please move this to jokes and humour and infract for posting in the wrong forum. Maybe another infraction for posting from the wrong planet.

[James Deuce]

First things guys have to understand, the money is going towards the children. If you think you are "paying your ex" (which you are not) then you'll hold a grudge against her for no reason.

If you feel she is spending the money unwisely, then suggest you both share in the usual out of house expenses. She may think you are taking control and refuse this, but it is worth suggesting.

All the guys I've spoken to in this situation say the same thing: I'd be happy if the amount of money I paid to the government went to the kids.

It doesn't matter if Mum is employed or not, the kids get a much lower figure than the Dads pay.

[FROSTY]

Im kinda qualified to comment on this one I guess.
What IRD NEED to be aware of is that this man is supporting 3 other children. This has a substantial effect on the amount of child support paid.
Theres also family tax credits that help offset.

[Lissa]

Most guys are quite happy to pay child support when it is going towards helping the kids out, and mostly it does. If he is unhappy with what he is paying he should get a review. The IRD should take into account other children and expenses or else they all lose out.


I say if a relationship breaks up and some bitch wants to take the car then she should pay for that car and all its running expenses. Same for the children. Children should not be allowed to be used as barginning chips. I pay more for 1 child who doesnt live with us than I do to support the 2 kids that I have at home. I agree. Once you have split then the only expenses you should pay should be for the children. Unfortunalty when some people split it becomes personal and a little childish. The best way is to have a private agreement, and that money is decided upon by both in the best interest of the child. I guess parents who have split have to put everything else aside and be a little grown up about things, everything should be about the kids. Guess I am lucky, me and my ex are co-parents and will be for the rest of our lives we have to get on and think only of the kids.

[alanzs]

No you're completely wrong there, it's entirely about what gender you are.

OK, I agree. :msn-wink:

[crazyhorse]

Had a staff member over the last couple of weeks has had HIS visitation rights taken away by his ex. Now this guy is a loving father and wants to spend time with his son. Used to have the boy on equal time and paid for him while he was in his care.

It turned nasty with the ex and this week we get a notice telling us to take $$$xxxx from his pay from the IRD. Now this is based purely on % of his income. Nothing to do with his current mortgage and commitments or how much it actually costs to raise a child.

Its not that he doesnt want to pay but it seems that poor joe on the benefit has to pay way less than someone who is working for a living. This guy made a comment to me along the lines of "why work to better yourself if the IRD want to take it all"

Has anyone ever challenged a Child Support deduction? How easy or tough is it? I dont want to get into a he is wrong she is right. He wants to see the lad.

Good luck. IRD is like GOD. I have been on both sides of that fence - and no, it is not easy. I too would suggest getting a review done of his entitlement to pay. But frankly, they are tough and often are most unlikely to budge. Easiest option would be to have someone live with him and support her and her kids....... OR as we did, get smart - start a business and draw an income - only enough to survive on.