Here's one for all you back room lawyers

[Racing Dave]

A chap I know foolishly rode his pushbike through a Stop sign, right in front of a police patrol. Quite rightly, he was stopped and ticketed for that. However, in addition, he was given a further ticket ($150/20 demerit points) for failing to produce his driver's license.

He says, riding a pushbike, why should you. The cop's view was, as he was a road user, and had a valid driver's license, then he must carry it whenever on a public road, whether driving a vehicle that the license applies to or not.

Sounds dodgy to me, I'd be in court like a flash.

Any thoughts...?

[AD345]

Sounds dodgy to me as well

You don't need a licence to ride a bicycle on a public road so he can't do ya for not having one


Fight it

[kevfromcoro]

Since when do you need a liecence to ride a pushbike.

Sounds dodgy allright............

[P38]

I would refuse to show my licence if pulled up on a push bike on the grounds that no licence is required to operate that class of vehicle on the road.

The police also would be hard pressed to ask to see your licence because of the above grounds and a NZ citizen only has to give there full name and address if asked by the police. Right to silence covers the rest.

However if your friend wants to ride his pushbike through a Stop Sign then his number is Up! Only he doesnt know it yet.

It's only a matter of time before he becomes just another sad statistic.

How's that for backroom lawyering :niceone:

[TimeOut]

Totally dodgy

Nail his ass

[steve_t]

Nah, bollocks! Should he need to carry his licence if he was going for a run down the road? Or on a skateboard? He should contest the ticket. Fine and demerit points? I'd make a complaint to the police commissioner or whoever keeps the cops in check. It sounds like some kind of harrassment.
Are u sure your mate didn't tell u this story on April 1st?? :blink:

[Ixion]

Totally without foundation.

The law is

Land Transport Act S 5c


A person driving a motor vehicle must produce without delay his or her driver licence for inspection whenever required to do so by an enforcement officer.


Note: Motor vehicle. A pushbike is not a motor vehicle. It is a vehicle and therefore S114 allows an enforecement officer to demand name address and date of birth (a constable may also demand this under common law)
Note that no one can be obliged to PROVE their identity - though there are heavy penalties for providing false information

Dispute the ticket and lodge a complaint with the Police Whitewash Authority.

(An obvious rejoinder is "I don't have one" )

[CookMySock]

He should do nothing at all, and certainly do not talk to them or pay any fine. Don't try to take them on, and don't be dragged into any argument with them.


Steve

[YellowDog]

A chap I know foolishly rode his pushbike through a Stop sign, right in front of a police patrol. Quite rightly, he was stopped and ticketed for that. However, in addition, he was given a further ticket ($150/20 demerit points) for failing to produce his driver's license.

He says, riding a pushbike, why should you. The cop's view was, as he was a road user, and had a valid driver's license, then he must carry it whenever on a public road, whether driving a vehicle that the license applies to or not.

Sounds dodgy to me, I'd be in court like a flash.

Any thoughts...?
Your friend must be quite retrained and calm.

If it was me I suspect I would be in a legitimate charge of using offensive language.

[Ixion]

Hang about, hang about.

The OP ain't right anyway

Penalty for failing to produce drivers licence EVEN IF DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE isn't $120/20 demerits. Act says fine up to $1000, I believe the actual tarrif for a simple "left it at home" is $55. Definately no demerits.

I think maybe this tale is bien trouve?

[jahrasti]

Hang about, hang about.

The OP ain't right anyway

Penalty for failing to produce drivers licence EVEN IF DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE isn't $120/20 demerits. Act says fine up to $1000, I believe the actual tarrif for a simple "left it at home" is $55. Definately no demerits.

I think maybe this tale is bien trouve?

I was wondring how long it would take for someone to pick that up.

[peasea]

A chap I know foolishly rode his pushbike through a Stop sign, right in front of a police patrol. Quite rightly, he was stopped and ticketed for that. However, in addition, he was given a further ticket ($150/20 demerit points) for failing to produce his driver's license.

He says, riding a pushbike, why should you. The cop's view was, as he was a road user, and had a valid driver's license, then he must carry it whenever on a public road, whether driving a vehicle that the license applies to or not.

Sounds dodgy to me, I'd be in court like a flash.

Any thoughts...?

You're on a pushbike. Say you've got no ID and give them a pile of bullshit. Take the ticket and wipe your arse with it. Done it myself. If you're on a pushbike and you give the cops correct details you're a dweeb.

[fireliv]

Yup sounds like someone telling Porkies!!! Oink Oink...Pigs are flying


According to this tale, kids who ride bicycles to school wont be the perfect revenue earners for the goverment since none of them would be able to produce licences. They would all run out of demerit points too.

[CookMySock]

You're on a pushbike. Say you've got no ID and give them a pile of bullshit. Take the ticket and wipe your arse with it. Done it myself. If you're on a pushbike and you give the cops correct details you're a dweeb.I agree, but watch out, its quite illegal to give false details. The courts take a dim view of it also. Basically, you should not give a false name and address to the the fuzz - there are other ways to fu^H^Htrip them up if you need to.

But fuck yeah, after you have given him your name and address then lie your face off.

Steve

[caseye]

We are also all missing the very obvious other.Not so long ago (about 8 yrs or so under Comrade Helen's rule) the law was changed and we were all made instant criminals and subject to fines.
Why? Control, thats why.
Our beloved Police Force have been turned into a revenue gathering money making Govt department, one of the spin offs was that they got this nice new law that mean't they could charge ordinary law abiding folks with failing to produce their drivers licence, on the spot.
Once upon a time you had some grace and were only required to produce said licence in a timely manner.
Now you get nailed immediately, more power to the facist who thought this one up.Never have agreed with it and never will, what of our right to go unmolested as law abiding citizens.

[spudchucka]

- there are other ways to fu^H^Htrip them up if you need to.

You mean like that going international thing you mentioned once?

Re the fine for not producing licence - sounds bogus to me... and it is a $55 fine only, no demerits.

[Nasty]

A chap I know foolishly rode his pushbike through a Stop sign, right in front of a police patrol. Quite rightly, he was stopped and ticketed for that. However, in addition, he was given a further ticket ($150/20 demerit points) for failing to produce his driver's license.

He says, riding a pushbike, why should you. The cop's view was, as he was a road user, and had a valid driver's license, then he must carry it whenever on a public road, whether driving a vehicle that the license applies to or not.

Sounds dodgy to me, I'd be in court like a flash.

Any thoughts...?


The cop being a prick ... but there is a problem here .. you have to look if there is a precedent set. I am not sure how to do that.

[marty]

I was wondring how long it would take for someone to pick that up.

was obvious the moment i read it, but this IS Kiwibiker after all.....and I wanted to read pc's reply :)

[MarkH]

Dispute the ticket and lodge a complaint with the Police Whitewash Authority.

(An obvious rejoinder is "I don't have one" )

Once you have given your name the fuzz can check up to see if you have a license, I don't think claiming to not have one is a brilliant idea.

But I agree with no need to carry one when riding a push bike - you ain't operating a motor vehicle on the road therefore you don't need your license on you. I think he should definitely dispute the ticket.

[CookMySock]

Once you have given your name the fuzz can check up to see if you have a license, I don't think claiming to not have one is a brilliant idea.So you lied? Boo fucken hoo. Just ride away, you don't have to stand on the roadside like some subservient little pleb unless you under arrest, and if they DO threaten to arrest you for some obviously trumped up bullshit, just :killingme at them and walk off. The pigs aren't gods.

Steve

[Tank]

So you lied? Boo fucken hoo. Just ride away, you don't have to stand on the roadside like some subservient little pleb unless you under arrest, and if they DO threaten to arrest you for some obviously trumped up bullshit, just :killingme at them and walk off. The pigs aren't gods.

Steve

Its funny - I treat the police with respect and NEVER have I had the kind of problems others on here have.

I think that the root of the issue is that 'behavior breeds behavior'. So being a bit of a ass, lying, walking off because you arnt under arrest, and calling them pigs gets you a whole lot of hassle.

Being polite and nice (as you seem to expect them to do to you regardless) gets the same back.

Not rocket science - and it seems to work.

[CookMySock]

Its funny - I treat the police with respect and NEVER have I had the kind of problems others on here have.As do I. If you understood MY situation you would see where I am coming from, and how I gained all these negative experiences, but you don't, so you won't, and I'm not going to sumarise them all for you. Suffice to say, it's my opinion and my experience, and people can take what they want from it, as it would be from yourself.


I think that the root of the issue is that 'behavior breeds behavior'. So being a bit of a ass, lying, walking off because you arnt under arrest, and calling them pigs gets you a whole lot of hassle.Name-calling the cops is just for entertainment. I don't mistreat hell out of the NZ Police whenever I see them - it's just a game on the Internet. I have not had a good run with the Police when I NEEDED THEM for support, yet they are quite happy to trip me up for any tiny administrative error, so now I do not care for their feelings, and that's stiff titty /HTFU for them, just as it was for me. If they want me to stand and discuss some crap with them, I will not. Tough. You must understand, Tank, that these people WILL trip you up with ANYTHING they can pin on you, depending on whether they are having a fun day or not. Sooner or later this will happen to you, and then you will see.


Being polite and nice (as you seem to expect them to do to you regardless) gets the same back.I agree. But this is part of my personality that I use as a tool, not part of my ethos that I offer as respect to my friends and family, and to you. If you afford this level of respect to the Police by default, do not be shocked to discover they use it as a tool against you.

You will see in time.

Steve

[Indoo]

So you lied? Boo fucken hoo. Just ride away, you don't have to stand on the roadside like some subservient little pleb unless you under arrest, and if they DO threaten to arrest you for some obviously trumped up bullshit, just :killingme at them and walk off. The pigs aren't gods.

Steve

That bit of advice is so idiotic, childish and ignorant it almost deserves a reward! All that will do rather than making yourself feel big and the cop angry and powerless to do anything about it (presumably what Dangerous dreams of one day doing) is wind up giving him just the excuse he needs to arrest and wreck the day of the smart arse giving him grief.

[CookMySock]

All that will do rather than making yourself feel big and the cop angry and powerless to do anything about it [...] is wind up giving him just the excuse he needs to arrest and wreck the day of the smart arse giving him grief.In your opinion. I am already big, and he is already angry and powerless (sounds like you are too), and that is his problem, not mine.

Steve

[Usarka]

In your opinion. I am already big, and he is already angry and powerless (sounds like you are too), and that is his problem, not mine.

Steve

No he has the power to check your details on the radio, then chase you in his 200+kph holden and bust you for providing false details.

Or will you ninja kick him in the head and steal his car?

[Indoo]

In your opinion. I am already big, and he is already angry and powerless (sounds like you are too), and that is his problem, not mine.

Steve

The fact that you would be the one in the handcuffs and getting a conviction out of it all because of your ego would make it more your problem.

[scumdog]

The fact that you would be the one in the handcuffs and getting a conviction out of it all because of your ego would make it more your problem.

One of the more sensible posts on this thread I daresay...

[Tank]

Spot a dangerous theme here.

Remember on ALL of these occasions its the cops attitude.


Welcome to the real world. EVERY time I have been victimised by some scum lowlife and went to the pigs about it, they were like "(pregnant pause) well, what did you do to deserve that? long silence ensues..."

"Fucking useless cunts" only begins to describe how helpless we have felt at times.

They called me up yesterday while I was out with my daughters, and told them to get lost and hung up on them. Supposedly I "had to" come down to the police station and sort some shit out. I couldn't give a cup of crap. next. :beer:

DB


Right with you there bro, the pigs have never done anything fucking useful for me, there were some times when I could have really really done with a hand, yet they are at every fucking corner ready to catch me on the slightest administrative slipup. Ooh your RUC is 1,100 km over !! Thats 400bux kthx. :doh:


DB


haha, yeah right "$150 fine lol - bring it, bitch.." see you in court. GFY!:baby: /me rides off.

pigs have no right to stop you simply for an angry dressing down on the roadside.

Sharpen up, pigs. Your ability to actually assist normal law-abiding citizens is fucking piss-poor.

DB


The thing to rely on is, the pigs don't like egg on their face in front of the judge - it's not a professional look for them when they need all the credibility they can get (in court anyway - credibility in public irrelevant.) When the judge is shown yet another line of collossal blunders all for an $80 ticket, it doesnt look good for them at all.

So exploit any mistake they make with as much bullshit and strong wording as possible, and if you are lucky they will say "ahhh fuckit" and throw it in the rubbish bin. It helps to mention a few large organisations, such as the NZRTA lawyers etc - that makes then swallow hard.

I haven't been ticketed for anything for years and years, and I don't aim to be, but I know a bit about how to fuck people up so they go elsewhere.

While I dislike the pigs intensely (rant deleted) I am glad they are there getting the pissheads and other morons off the road so they don't kill your and my teenage daughters.

nuff sed

DB

I sense some bitterness in the force.

Again - I'm polite and never had a problem. I'm guessing I never will. DB - sometimes you just have to acknowledge that a grumpy approach simply dosnt help in this kind of situation. By being a pain or (as you put it) fucking people up - generally makes it a more drawn out and unpleasant situation.

[jtepaa]

Well 1st off he went through a stop sign. Not a good move. However it is being questioned at this time wether or not a helmet should be worn. So for a Police officer to have the audacity to excercise his executive power in a way that contradicts legislation is beyond proportion and can easily be nullified. You would have been charged if you were riding on the footpath which is stupid. (Did he expect you to fly or something). That and the other thing he could argue is that there is no specific license for riding a bike meaning a 5 year old could get a ticket for riding his bike on the road without a license.

[Renegade]

what was this thread about again??

[HungusMaximist]

Back to the topic.

That cop went a bit too far with the whole licence thing and it's a complete cock up on their part. You don't need to a drivers licence to ride a push bike on the road. Period.

Surely the cops should've known better?

[CookMySock]

That cop went a bit too far with the whole licence thing and it's a complete cock up on their part. You don't need to a drivers licence to ride a push bike on the road. Period.

Surely the cops should've known better?Of course they know better. It just pissed him off, so he thought he would try fuck someone over with some trumped up bullshit story and see if they bought it. But they didn't. End of problem.

It's no different to you or I driving on the road and getting angry and trying to "do something about it". His actions are called "the law", where yours are called road rage. They equally hold no weight in the eyes of the law. One of them is abuse, and the other one is abuse by the law enforcement agency. Do the math.

Steve

[Tank]

Of course they know better. It just pissed him off, so he thought he would try fuck someone over with some trumped up bullshit story and see if they bought it. But they didn't. End of problem.

It's no different to you or I driving on the road and getting angry and trying to "do something about it". His actions are called "the law", where yours are called road rage. They equally hold no weight in the eyes of the law. One of them is abuse, and the other one is abuse by the law enforcement agency. Do the math.

Steve

Bollocks! What a load of bollocks. To compare a road rage attack against a cop asking for a licence is ridiculous - even for you. And IF the cop asked for a licence it would most certainly hold more weight in a court of law than pulling someone off their bike and nutting 'em.

Regardless. This whole thread is something that 'happened to a mate' - truth be told there is something probably been lost in translation to the OP, or the story of the 'victim' is biased and missing stuff out. As is the KB way.

[PrincessBandit]

I'd like to know just how many 8 year olds on pushbikes have gone through a stop sign and been asked to "produce their licence" in accordance with their misdemeanour. If an under15-year old infringes traffic laws do they get asked for their non-existant licences??;)

[Ixion]

Bollocks! What a load of bollocks. To compare a road rage attack against a cop asking for a licence is ridiculous - even for you. And IF the cop asked for a licence it would most certainly hold more weight in a court of law than pulling someone off their bike and nutting 'em.

Regardless. This whole thread is something that 'happened to a mate' - truth be told there is something probably been lost in translation to the OP, or the story of the 'victim' is biased and missing stuff out. As is the KB way.

No it wouldn't . With a few freak exceptions a cop can only demand that you produce your drivers licence if you are driving a MOTOR vehicle. This was actually covered in great depth by the Privacy Commissioner when the photo licences were introduced in response to (well founded as things turn out) fears that the photo licence would become a defacto ID document.

[Katman]

But this is part of my personality that I use as a tool,

Remind me, which part of your personality isn't a tool?

:scratch:

[Mork]

Write in and defend it.....Theres no way he'll be made to pay it.....Some young copper who misunderstands the law......

[scumdog]

in addition, he was given a further ticket ($150/20 demerit points) for failing to produce his driver's license.
Any thoughts...?

Yeah, 'somebody' doesn't know what the real penalty for 'Fails to Produce Drivers Licence' is.

And a lot of the posters on here seem to blithely overlook that fact.......


But carry on, it's KB after all - where facts can be as scant as clothes on Gypsy Rose Lee yet all are free to 'voice' facts on topics the know so much about... :whistle:

[The Stranger]

what was this thread about again??

Riding with HID lights on full beam all the time.

[The Stranger]

But carry on, it's KB after all - where facts can be as scant as clothes on Gypsy Rose Lee yet all are free to 'voice' facts on topics the know so much about... :whistle:

Come on Scummy, we learnt this from the Police, you know, If you don't know the facts just invent them.



Just ask Skyrider.

[ukusa]

I'd like to know just how many 8 year olds on pushbikes have gone through a stop sign and been asked to "produce their licence" in accordance with their misdemeanour. If an under15-year old infringes traffic laws do they get asked for their non-existant licences??;)

I have had occasions where the bank have asked for my licence, I always refuse to hand it over. They say they need photo ID, a licence or passport will do. i tell them I have neither & they have to accept it. A drivers licence is for driving, not for biking, banking or flying. On a bike I would also refuse to show my drivers licence.

[steve_t]

I have had occasions where the bank have asked for my licence, I always refuse to hand it over. They say they need photo ID, a licence or passport will do. i tell them I have neither & they have to accept it. A drivers licence is for driving, not for biking, banking or flying. On a bike I would also refuse to show my drivers licence.

So, what does the bank say? Surely if they can't verify your identity they can refuse to serve you or refuse your application to open an account etc... ??

[Ixion]

No. They cannot . This (banks demanding photo ID) pisses me off. I have had arguments with them about it. many people do not have either a drivers licence or a passport (my mother, for one).

There is NO legal photo identification document in NZ. A drivers licence is exactly that. A licence to drive a motor vehicle . Not a personal identity card.

Think about it. If the banks position be accepted, and you have no passport. You lose your driver's licence and instantly you cannot access your bank account ! (how do you pay your fine for a start).

[Racing Dave]

Don't get hung up in the detail if I got the price wrong - I haven't seen the ticket, but had its contents related to me. The fact is, a ticket was issued for not producing his license.

[tigertim20]

No. They cannot . This (banks demanding photo ID) pisses me off. I have had arguments with them about it. many people do not have either a drivers licence or a passport (my mother, for one).

There is NO legal photo identification document in NZ. A drivers licence is exactly that. A licence to drive a motor vehicle . Not a personal identity card.

Think about it. If the banks position be accepted, and you have no passport. You lose your driver's licence and instantly you cannot access your bank account ! (how do you pay your fine for a start).

Thats quite interesting. I got a question for you though, (way off topic) How does it work with a Bar asking you for a license as ID? assuming you have no passport or 18 plus card? (having said that you did say there is NO legal photo ID document in NZ, so...)
Yeah so just wondering why bars only accept "photo ID", When I was on the door (2 years, head doorman" it was made clear to us "by the company we worked for" that the ONLY acceptable ID for entry was a License (NZ only) or a Passport, or a HANZ 18+ card. and that if they didnt produce one of the three, no entry. So how does that all work?
Having said that the bar was "private property" and we didnt have to give a reason for refusing entry anyway.
Would just be interested in your thoughts on all that?

[Laxi]

Remind me, which part of your personality isn't a tool?

:scratch:

haha that would actually be pretty funny, if it hadn't come from katman:eek:

[Varkp]

I have had occasions where the bank have asked for my licence, I always refuse to hand it over. They say they need photo ID, a licence or passport will do. i tell them I have neither & they have to accept it. A drivers licence is for driving, not for biking, banking or flying. On a bike I would also refuse to show my drivers licence.

Wait till some Nigerian/Russian/Malaysian scam artist cleans out you bank account, see how quickly you then insist that the bank asked and verified photo ID's, hell why not just go for DNA verification aswell.

[CookMySock]

Why the bank doesn't use 2048bit DSA keys or similar, baffles hell outa me.

Steve

[Swoop]

Dispute the ticket and lodge a complaint with the Police Whitewash Authority.
I would not advise this. The "independant" PCA will always rule in favour of the tax collection department and so (in effect) make this a requirement under law.

Bollocks! What a load of bollocks. To compare a road rage attack against a cop asking for a licence is ridiculous - even for you.
NOTHING is too ridiculous for DB.

[sharknet]

Thats quite interesting. I got a question for you though, (way off topic) How does it work with a Bar asking you for a license as ID? assuming you have no passport or 18 plus card? (having said that you did say there is NO legal photo ID document in NZ, so...)
Yeah so just wondering why bars only accept "photo ID", When I was on the door (2 years, head doorman" it was made clear to us "by the company we worked for" that the ONLY acceptable ID for entry was a License (NZ only) or a Passport, or a HANZ 18+ card. and that if they didnt produce one of the three, no entry. So how does that all work?
Having said that the bar was "private property" and we didnt have to give a reason for refusing entry anyway.
Would just be interested in your thoughts on all that?

I think the point is that the only people who can LEGALLY ask for and expect to be shown a drivers licence are:

1. A police officer in relation to a traffic incident involving a motor vehicle, and,
2. A drivers licencing agency (LTSA for example) regarding the issue or replacement of a licence.

Bars ask, but have no legal right to do so, however they CAN refuse right of entry.

Basically you are not legally required to provide or carry ID in NZ.

[MarkH]

Wait till some Nigerian/Russian/Malaysian scam artist cleans out you bank account, see how quickly you then insist that the bank asked and verified photo ID's, hell why not just go for DNA verification aswell.

There is this girl that works as a teller at my local bank branch, if she could take me somewhere private I would be willing to give her a DNA sample. :whistle:

[MarkH]

I think the point is that the only people who can LEGALLY ask for and expect to be shown a drivers licence are:

Bars ask, but have no legal right to do so, however they CAN refuse right of entry.

Basically you are not legally required to provide or carry ID in NZ.

That is 100% true - you don't have to show the bar staff photo ID and they don't have to serve you or let you remain on their premises.

[PrincessBandit]

There is this girl that works as a teller at my local bank branch, if she could take me somewhere private I would be willing to give her a DNA sample. :whistle:

What an accommodating man you are! nudge nudge ;);)

[jrandom]

You're on a pushbike. Say you've got no ID and give them a pile of bullshit.

Can one, having been asked to identify oneself while not in charge of a motor vehicle, then be arrested if the cop suspects that the details provided are false?

If so, I'd be leery of taking the above approach.

[peasea]

Can one, having been asked to identify oneself while not in charge of a motor vehicle, then be arrested if the cop suspects that the details provided are false?

If so, I'd be leery of taking the above approach.

Actually, I'll take that back.

Get a gun and shoot the fuck. Far cleaner; you don't get any false testimony from the filth that way. Well, not the dead one anyway........

[FJRider]

As I understand, a drivers licence must be produced if asked for by a Police Officer, 'In the execution of his duties". Failure to do this is "Impeding an Officer of the law in the execution of his duties". If you have one, when asked for... it must be produced. Giving false information is also an offence (denying you have one, when you do) and is/can be taken rather seriously in the Law enforcement dept.
Regardless of the mode of transport you were using when questioned.

[CookMySock]

As I understand, a drivers licence must be produced if asked for by a Police Officer, 'In the execution of his duties". Failure to do this is "Impeding an Officer of the law in the execution of his duties". If you have one, when asked for... it must be produced.Not quite. They may ask you to produce your photo drivers license, and if you are unable, or refuse, they can fine you for it. I have never been fined for failing to produce my license - normally they just frown and proceed with their next question.


Giving false information is also an offence (denying you have one, when you do) and is/can be taken rather seriously in the Law enforcement dept. Regardless of the mode of transport you were using when questioned.Not quite. If the officer asks your name, address, (and I think your birthdate) you MUST supply it. If you do not supply it, or you falsify these details, this is an offence and they can and usually will immediately process you for it.

Other than that, you may offer a sullen "dunno" or look at him and blink, or else lie your face off. You are just offering your opinion, and this is not against the law.

IMO, YMMV, BIOYOH
Steve

[Jantar]

As I understand, a drivers licence must be produced if asked for by a Police Officer, 'In the execution of his duties". Failure to do this is "Impeding an Officer of the law in the execution of his duties". If you have one, when asked for... it must be produced. .....
A drivers licence must be produced on request of a police officer if you are in charge of, or driving a motor vehicle. Not at any other time. However a police officer may detain you for the porpose of establishing your identity, and if you did happen to have a drivers licence on you, that would be a quick and certain way of proving who you are.

If a police officer demands to see your driver's licence for any reason not related to driving then he really needs a search warrant. personally, I'd rather show a licence to prove who I am than be detained while he uses "other" methods. :eek5:

[Ixion]

Can one, having been asked to identify oneself while not in charge of a motor vehicle, then be arrested if the cop suspects that the details provided are false?

If so, I'd be leery of taking the above approach.

Yes. providing false details is an offence in any circumstances. But you are only required to produce a drivers licence if driving or in charge of a motor vehicle (or for some MoT administrative purposes)

[CookMySock]

However a police officer may detain you for the porpose of establishing your identityI wouldn't have worded it that way. A police officer may stop you long enough to establish your identity, and that means answering his questions to that effect, or offering the information yourself, but after that they need further reasons to hold you. Perhaps they have a good reason to believe that you are lying about your identity, or would like to search your vehicle under the misuse of drugs act, or some other reason, so there are valid and legal reasons to detain you.

But "wait here while I go check this" is not a valid and legal reason to detain you. They must explain to you under what section of the law you are being detained, and if they do not then you should ask them "am I being detained?" and "under what section of the law am I being detained", and if you do not receive a concise reply quite likely you are well within your rights to ride off.

Also if you handed your license to the officer and he has copied your details from it, you are well within your rights to ask him "please hand me my license". If he offers you some reason why not, you may ask him "Am I forbidden to drive?", or "are you confiscating my license?", and if the answer is no, then you should repeat your request, "please hand me my license" and he must do so. If he does not, then point to the number on his sleeve and ask "is this your officer number? You will hand me my drivers license immediately."

If the pigs go into "we're not mucking around mode", then so should you.

Steve

[warewolf]

Its funny - I treat the police with respect and NEVER have I had the kind of problems others on here have.
...
Being polite and nice (as you seem to expect them to do to you regardless) gets the same back.

Not rocket science - and it seems to work.If only that were true! :bs: Good one, got any more? :rofl:

I've never been less than unflailingly polite, truthful and co-operative with the police. They have not always extended those same courtesies in return.

Unfortunately there are as many arsewipes in the constabulary as in the rest of the population.

[jim.cox]

Unfortunately there are as many arsewipes in the constabulary as in the rest of the population.

Bzzt - wrong - there are more

The blue gang attracts more than its fair share of dull humourless fascists :(

[scumdog]

Bzzt - wrong - there are more

The blue gang attracts more than its fair share of dull humourless fascists :(

Just so's the public (who they came from) don't look so bad:whistle:

[scumdog]

But "wait here while I go check this" is not a valid and legal reason to detain you. They must explain to you under what section of the law you are being detained, and if they do not then you should ask them "am I being detained?" and "under what section of the law am I being detained", and if you do not receive a concise reply quite likely you are well within your rights to ride off.

If the pigs go into "we're not mucking around mode", then so should you.

Steve

It may be he's hanging onto the licence while waiting for Comms to confirm he can keep it because you happen to have 135 demerits??

And you are wanted for service of suspension notice??.

In that case if you are 'nice' he may well allow you to ride home before serving the notice and taking you licence.

Of course I bet a few on here are capable of talking the cop out of doing that..:whistle:

[scumdog]

Actually, I'll take that back.

Get a gun and shoot the fuck. Far cleaner; you don't get any false testimony from the filth that way. Well, not the dead one anyway........

Ya must be ecstatic then about the events in Napier today eh?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think the point is that the only people who can LEGALLY ask for and expect to be shown a drivers licence are:

1. A police officer in relation to a traffic incident involving a motor vehicle, and,
2. A drivers licencing agency (LTSA for example) regarding the issue or replacement of a licence.

Bars ask, but have no legal right to do so, however they CAN refuse right of entry.

Basically you are not legally required to provide or carry ID in NZ.

but if you don't you may find it difficult to operate in this society. for example to operate or open a bank account (FTRA and such) or buy and sell a piece of real property. Both require a signatory to provide a copy of a valid photographic ID (drivers licence, firearms licence, passport, photo credit card etc).

so you can get as prissy as you like, you'll have no money and nowhere to live.

[Jantar]

....In that case if you are 'nice' he may well allow you to ride home before serving the notice and taking you licence.

Of course I bet a few on here are capable of talking the cop out of doing that..:whistle:

:laugh: I can think of at least one unsafe son of unmarried parents who may fit that description.

[jrandom]

Of course I bet a few on here are capable of talking the cop out of doing that..:whistle:

Mebbe.

Y'know, when I got nicked riding while suspended last year (yes, I'm a very bad man) the cop then gave me a lift about 60km across town during rush hour, from East Tamaki to Te Atatu. The same ride would've cost me about $100 in a taxi.

Seemed a decent chap. Didn't get the impression from him that arresting me and having my motorcycle impounded was anything personal.

:pinch:

[jrandom]

Yes. providing false details is an offence in any circumstances.

I know. That wasn't my point; my point was whether a cop can or would arrest one if one set off his bullshit-o-meter while providing details without supporting documentation (in a situation not involving motor vehicles).

[Ixion]

Yes. He can. Of course, if he got it wrong and your name really *was* Michael Mouse, it could be awkward for him.

[The Stranger]

Y'know, when I got nicked riding while suspended last year (yes, I'm a very bad man) the cop then gave me a lift about 60km across town during rush hour, from East Tamaki to Te Atatu. The same ride would've cost me about $100 in a taxi.



I hope you did the decent thing and invited him in for a drink and a smoke for his troubles.

[jrandom]

I hope you did the decent thing and invited him in for a drink and a smoke for his troubles.

I did, actually, but he had several hours left to go on his shift, and wasn't allowed anything psychoactive while on duty.

We also had an interesting conversation during the drive back about motorcyclists doing runners.

It reaffirmed the various opinions I had already held on the matter.

[ukusa]

A chap I know foolishly rode his pushbike through a Stop sign, right in front of a police patrol. Quite rightly, he was stopped and ticketed for that. However, in addition, he was given a further ticket ($150/20 demerit points) for failing to produce his driver's license.
Of course you have to show your licence if you're riding motorbikes or driving. This original statement was about bicycles. I never carry my licence when on a pushbike, there is no law to say that you must, simple as that. What next, making it compulsary for your passenger to carry theirs or maybe carrying it while you're dirt biking off road?

[Madness]

The cop's view was, as he was a road user, and had a valid driver's license, then he must carry it whenever on a public road, whether driving a vehicle that the license applies to or not.

Any thoughts...?

Sounds like a good enough reason to ride yer pushie on the footpath to me.

It's silly shit like this that degrades the public's opinion of the police. Shame really.

[FJRider]

Sounds like a good enough reason to ride yer pushie on the footpath to me.



I must be getting old... when I was a kid, that was frowned on too. When did they change it... ??? :wacko:

Mind you ... with all the mobility scooters on the footpath too, the footpath isn't safe either... :argh:

[Fatjim]

I have not had a good run with the Police when I NEEDED THEM for support,
Steve

Please tell me you didn't get raped by a gang of intermediate students while walking home from work?

[steve_t]

I must be getting old... when I was a kid, that was frowned on too. When did they change it... ??? :wacko:


Still illegal ;)

[FJRider]

Yes. He can. Of course, if he got it wrong and your name really *was* Michael Mouse, it could be awkward for him.

Not awkward in the least... any arrest would be "on suspicion of ..." A current, and valid drivers licence, produced by you (when asked for), would prevent a few hours in the cells...

and with the added risk of "other" charges laid...

Only the innocent need try to push it... but the innocent would provide what was asked for... wouldn't they ... ???

[spudchucka]

Please tell me you didn't get raped by a gang of intermediate students while walking home from work?

Could explain a few of his issues.

[peasea]

Ya must be ecstatic then about the events in Napier today eh?


I wouldn't go that far; it really fucked up the flow of traffic.

[scumdog]

I wouldn't go that far; it really fucked up the flow of traffic.

So you WERE in Napier eh?

[peasea]

So you WERE in Napier eh?

Wrong again, but if I had been I certainly wouldn't be helping the cops. Look what happens when you try to help. Whoever prosecuted this guy needs a .......oh dear, I was going to say "bullet' but better not.




http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2402846/Woes-after-a-well-meant-call

[scumdog]

Wrong again, but if I had been I certainly wouldn't be helping the cops. Look what happens when you try to help. Whoever prosecuted this guy needs a .......oh dear, I was going to say "bullet' but better not.




http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2402846/Woes-after-a-well-meant-call

Gee, who would have thunk it, poor guy only trying to help.......:weird:

Thank goodness we have accurate and full investigations by the media who let us know of these injustices, boy, do the cops ever have egg on their face over this one eh!

[peasea]

Gee, who would have thunk it, poor guy only trying to help.......:weird:

Thank goodness we have accurate and full investigations by the media who let us know of these injustices, boy, do the cops ever have egg on their face over this one eh!

And so it goes on, and on and on!

The cops are NEVER wrong are they????
And....if you challenge them (which is your right) you're a "vexatious litigant"!!!

It gets more entertaining by the day.

[scumdog]

And so it goes on, and on and on!

The cops are NEVER wrong are they????
And....if you challenge them (which is your right) you're a "vexatious litigant"!!!



Hey, yer learnin':D:dodge:

[peasea]

Hey, yer learnin':D:dodge:

Well you guys certainly aren't.

Boom boom!