Flu "pandemic"

[slofox]

Well...that should keep W.H.O. happy - '"swine flu" is rampant' they scream. 'Everybody stay home - gobble up tamiflu - wrap your kids in cotton wool and stick 'em in glass cases...' Just heard someone canceled their trip to Mexico despite going to a place 1000km away from the outbreak...talk about over-reaction...

Dunno about anyone else but I could feel the glee as I listened to the first reports from the chief boohoo of W.H.O. Sounds like a media beatup to me. Flu. Pah. I seem to recall the race surviving all the flu epidemics that came through when I was a kid. Guess we must have got soft in modern times huh..?

[Mikkel]

Well, the world could do with a decent pandemic around now. Something a bit more potent than the flu wouldn't hurt either.

[Hitcher]

Time will tell whether people have massively over-reacted. Or not.

[Fatt Max]

Well...that should keep W.H.O. happy - '"swine flu" is rampant' they scream. 'Everybody stay home - gobble up tamiflu - wrap your kids in cotton wool and stick 'em in glass cases...' Just heard someone canceled their trip to Mexico despite going to a place 1000km away from the outbreak...talk about over-reaction...

Dunno about anyone else but I could feel the glee as I listened to the first reports from the chief boohoo of W.H.O. Sounds like a media beatup to me. Flu. Pah. I seem to recall the race surviving all the flu epidemics that came through when I was a kid. Guess we must have got soft in modern times huh..?

Well said sir, well said.

Now the Emergency Response teams that consist of office dwellers (not the fire and ambo guys, I mean the white collar 'Policy & Procedure' authors) can don their visibility vests, grab a 2 way radio (with earpiece of course), hang an ID tag around their necks and practice the 'All Point Scenario' nonsense that they waste yours and my tax money putting together.

Trouble is, if we do get a real problem, these are the guys who have booke themselves on the first flight out on Air Armageddon (Armegeddon outta here).

I did catch bird flu though in 2003 I think it was. The symptoms for males are:

- Start looking for shoes that match my trousers
- swapping receipes with the girls at work
- Moan about men
- Totally forget how to parallel park, use a pay machine in the car park and not using mirrors other than for fixing my hair
- Farts are no longer funny
- Beer is horrible, Cab Sav please
- Preferring to make salads in the kitchen rather than satnd around the bar b
- Realising my bum does look big in everything, and
- Not liking it up the chocolate starfish anymore

I wonder if swine flu makes you look like tha Big Save Furniture chick, the Briscoes lady or any female from the east end of London...?

[tri boy]

I havn't seen, or heard any massive over reaction.
I'm pleased that W.H.O are taking these things seriously.
People have died from some form of flu, and in 1918 over 2 million people also died from something similar.
Best thing that can happen, is Govt's stay out of meddling in this affair, and let the scientists/medical organisations work through the threat.
MHO

[slofox]

I havn't seen, or heard any massive over reaction.



Just heard someone canceled their trip to Mexico despite going to a place 1000km away from the outbreak...



I rest my case...

[The Stranger]

I seem to recall the race surviving all the flu epidemics that came through when I was a kid. Guess we must have got soft in modern times huh..?

Sure the race did, however the 1918 flu pandemic supposedly infected up to a billion people and killed between 20 and a 100 million people.
Some have longer memories than you do perhaps.

[ManDownUnder]

I'd rather over-react and be too well prepared than the opposite. I'm of an age etc where I'd expect to be fine - but I have people near and dear to me that might not.

[slofox]

Pandemics are just the planet's way of fighting human overpopulation...I'm doing my bit to help - I ride a motorbike, don't I...

[Maha]

Mad Cow Disease...:wacko:
Y2K.....was never going to kill anyone but what a snore.....:zzzz:
Bird Flu....:baby:
Swine flu....:lol:

Personally, I would more worried about the 'Slightly irritating Wombat Cough' should it ever take off.

[Finn]

As long as it doesn't hit Auckland, NZ will be fine.

[Murray]

As long as it doesn't hit Auckland, NZ will be fine.

Looks like it hit the Blues Rugby team on the weekend!!

[Fatt Max]

First confirmed case in NZ now official....

[Finn]

Looks like it hit the Blues Rugby team on the weekend!!

Well they do all look Mexican.

[James Deuce]

Well, the world could do with a decent pandemic around now. Something a bit more potent than the flu wouldn't hurt either.

Contrary to popular opinion (and experience), influenza is death on a stick. Very few people have suffered from it in the western world since 1918. I've been hospitalised with modern variants of the 1918 'flu 3 times in the last 2 years, twice ending up with pneumonia. If you didn't end up in hospital, you didn't have influenza, you had a non-specific viral infection. Surviving influenza is largely luck and rapid treatment of secondary infections.

Tamiflu does nothing. Expensive Placebo dressed up in marketing speak and packaging.

If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.

[James Deuce]

Well they do all look Mexican.

Genus: Cliffus Curtis.

[Usarka]

This might explain things. I drunk some tequila last night and all I remember was squealing like a pig and then waking up not feeling too well..... :doctor:

[Fatt Max]

This might explain things. I drunk some tequila last night and all I remember was squealing like a pig and then waking up not feeling too well..... :doctor:

Did you have a sore botty perchance?

[slofox]

How can you tell if its swine flu? Ask the patient how s/he feels. Listen to the answer. If it sounds like this...

http://www.sound-effect.com/sounds1/pigs/big_pig_snort.wav


...dey got SWINE FLU!!!

[Usarka]

How can you tell if its swine flu? Ask the patient how s/he feels. Listen to the answer. If it sounds like this...

http://www.sound-effect.com/sounds1/pigs/big_pig_snort.wav


...dey got SWINE FLU!!!

Guys all around the country start taking their wives to the doctor.....

[slofox]

Guys all around the country start taking their wives to the doctor.....

:rofl::rofl::rofl::killingme:killingme:killingme

[pzkpfw]

On the beeb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/8018428.stm

[Winston001]

Sure the race did, however the 1918 flu pandemic supposedly infected up to a billion people and killed between 20 and a 100 million people.

Some have longer memories than you do perhaps.

Spot on. The Bird Flu scare was only about a virus which was potentially transgenic ie. jumps from birds to human and then spreads. Fortunately it only jumped to single individuals and didn't jump to other humans..

Swine flu is completely different - it's already transgenic and is transmitted between humans. Kills late teens and healthy adults.


Pandemics are just the planet's way of fighting human overpopulation...

True but not in the way we might think. The Third World is where overpopulation, famine and poverty are a problem. Yet they also have the greatest natural immunities to disease because they live in such raw conditions. So they may not affected as much as us.

By contrast here in the pampered West we live "safe" sterile lives with reduced natural immunities. A slow pandemic can be dealt with by hospitals and medical treatment but a fast outbreak will be a tidal wave which cannot be answered.


I'd rather over-react and be too well prepared than the opposite. I'm of an age etc where I'd expect to be fine - but I have people near and dear to me that might not.

Amen to that. My children are teenagers - right in the firing line. If any of them died I'd be so distraught that I can't even contemplate it.

[Genestho]

The Bird Flu scare was only about a virus which was potentially transgenic ie. jumped from birds to human and then spread. Fortunately it didn't proceed beyond a few people.

Swine flu is completely different - it's already transgenic and is transmitted between humans. Kills late teens and healthy adults.


By contrast here in the pampered West we live "safe" sterile lives with reduced natural immunities. A slow pandemic can be dealt with by hospitals and medical treatment but a fast outbreak will be a tidal wave which cannot be answered.

Beat me to it!
And that's it in a nutshell. Why not be prepared? Think about what you need if you had to stay inside for at least a month? Why not? What harm would it do? Versus the harm in light of the facts, if you didn't?

[JMemonic]

If we stick our head in the sand then its not happening, folks are dieing and so far in greater numbers than the bird flu (as I understand the reports), you don't have to live with your livestock in the case of the bird flu.

But dont worry it wont affect us hey as we live so far away and these things peter out before they get to us right.....

Check out our history with the 1918 pandemic, and why it hit our shores.

As the hitch hikers guide says Don't Panic but a little preparation does not hurt.

[Maha]

Medicine has moved a very very long way since 1918.

[Genestho]

Medicine has moved a very very long way since 1918.
From what I understand there's no vaccine for this one, and if Tamiflu is the answer, the way it sold off the shelves when even the bird flu had minute cases of human transfer, er, I wouldn't rely on that. Or it's efficiency.

[Usarka]

Oh no, the swine flu. Call the haaaaaambulance.

[Maha]

From what I understand there's no vaccine for this one, and if Tamiflu is the answer, the way it sold off the shelves when even the bird flu had minute cases of human transfer, er, I wouldn't rely on that. Or it's efficiency.


I am not bothered about the situation at all to be honest....hence my previous post.
But, they did report on the News tonight that, Tamiflu will cure if taken early enough....more media hype? dunno but the face masks are moving of the shelves, lucky theres shit loads of them left from four years ago when Bird Flu hit the streets....not here of cause.

[James Deuce]

Hang on a minute, just how do you "prepare"?

If you catch it, your body's immune system either deals with it or it doesn't and you need medical intervention for secondary infections, which you may not get if you it truly is a pandemic situation.

Our ability to deal with viruses isn't any better than 1918. You guys still get colds right (and call it 'flu)? Tamiflu simply doesn't work and never has. Placebo is better than no response though.

Virus immunization programmes are really hit and miss. If you have a relatively slow mutating virus like smallpox you can take a decade or three to eradicate it. Chicken pox vaccination on the other hand doesn't work very well at all, thanks to the way it works through human DNA.

Living with a medical professional who has just had a briefing on the topic gives a different perspective on the situation. If you catch this particular strain, you will either successfully fight it off (the majority of people) or you will succumb to probably a secondary infection, usually caused by bunging you into a hospital crawling with MRSA and respiratory disease, both bacterial and viral. The very young, and the very old are at risk from these types of virii, simply because their immune systems are either under developed or under performing. You can't do a thing about that. I have a child who runs very close to being neutropenic. If he catches this 'flu he'll probably die very quickly.

There's nothing you can do to avoid that outcome. Immunisation could easily spark the very problem you're trying to avoid in cases like that.

[normajeane]

On the beeb: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/8018428.stm

Maybe they will close the mega city like Mexico city?? Ever hopeful!<_<

But to be serious, "Conficker" worm is out there.. Is this the end of the computer?? I am on Facebook and the worm can crack into my account as i type it after I have been into a supposed safe link and follows me around e.g. bank accounts etc. SCARY!:angry2:

But the swine flu - you have to breathe and I may have just missed the crucial age group!! Hopefully we don't have too many in our area of positives as there is going to be some sick people around.

[The Stranger]

Medicine has moved a very very long way since 1918.

Yes, however we still can't cure a viral infection, which is what influenza is.

[pete376403]

Contrary to popular opinion (and experience), influenza is death on a stick.
Tamiflu does nothing. Expensive Placebo dressed up in marketing speak and packaging.
Au contraire - for it's time tamiflu was a wonderful product that made millions for the owners of the company that developed it, Gilead Sciences. Tamiflu is so good it was specifically recommended by US Congress, at the urging of Dubya.
(Major stockholder - Dubyas old mate Donald Rumsfeld)
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/GMO/Tamiflu/tamiflu.html

[Mikkel]

The only way you can achieve immortality is not to grow old in the first place :scratch:

[Edbear]

Hang on a minute, just how do you "prepare"?

If you catch it, your body's immune system either deals with it or it doesn't and you need medical intervention for secondary infections, which you may not get if you it truly is a pandemic situation.

Our ability to deal with viruses isn't any better than 1918. You guys still get colds right (and call it 'flu)? Tamiflu simply doesn't work and never has. Placebo is better than no response though.

Virus immunization programmes are really hit and miss. If you have a relatively slow mutating virus like smallpox you can take a decade or three to eradicate it. Chicken pox vaccination on the other hand doesn't work very well at all, thanks to the way it works through human DNA.

Living with a medical professional who has just had a briefing on the topic gives a different perspective on the situation. If you catch this particular strain, you will either successfully fight it off (the majority of people) or you will succumb to probably a secondary infection, usually caused by bunging you into a hospital crawling with MRSA and respiratory disease, both bacterial and viral. The very young, and the very old are at risk from these types of virii, simply because their immune systems are either under developed or under performing. You can't do a thing about that. I have a child who runs very close to being neutropenic. If he catches this 'flu he'll probably die very quickly.

There's nothing you can do to avoid that outcome. Immunisation could easily spark the very problem you're trying to avoid in cases like that.

INteresting post. When you say "very close" how close? It's not a condition I'd heard of so looked it up.

I'd say, by the news coming out that this could be quite serious, in light of the demographic dying. ONe would expect the old and frail or the babies but when fit strong healthy types are dying it kinda makes you think.

Against that is the fact that, (so far), cases outside Mexico seem to be mild.

[James Deuce]

The only way you can achieve immortality is not to grow old in the first place
Unfortunately the aging process starts at cell division. Best remain a ovum. Which tend to get expelled from the host and die on a regular basis.

See? That doesn't work either.

[Edbear]

The only way you can achieve immortality is not to grow old in the first place :scratch:

Growing old is fine, it's the dying bit that causes the problem... ;)

[Eurodave]

Heres an entirely different & far more sinister take on current world events:
http://www.openureyes.org.nz/blog/?q=node/1374
Maybe its time we all woke up to reality :confused:

[Edbear]

Unfortuantely the aging process starts at cell division. Best remain a ovum. Which tend to get expelled from the host and die on a regular basis.

See? That doesn't work either.

Yeah, and you can't ride a bike either...<_<

[Edbear]

Heres an entirely different & far more sinister take on current world events:
http://www.openureyes.org.nz/blog/?q=node/1374
Maybe its time we all woke up to reality :confused:

So they really are out to get us...:eek:

[Eurodave]

Mock all you like buddy, do some more research & youll agree that we should be really thankfull that we're not in America at the moment.....

[James Deuce]

INteresting post. When you say "very close" how close? It's not a condition I'd heard of so looked it up.

I'd say, by the news coming out that this could be quite serious, in light of the demographic dying. ONe would expect the old and frail or the babies but when fit strong healthy types are dying it kinda makes you think.

Against that is the fact that, (so far), cases outside Mexico seem to be mild.

Very close - neutrophil count is approx 2% above being labelled neutropenia, is completely in keeping with his underlying genetic disorder, and is why there is a tendency to leukaemia amongst his people.

The strong and fit die with Influenza A strains because there is often a bacterial component, as there is with swine flu. The transmission vector can be infectious bacterium which is taken deep into the lungs. Swine 'flu works best in healthy lungs.

One reason that the old and very young may appear to suffer less is that they don't associate with that demographic much.

There's a simple way to keep 'flu at bay. Wash your hands properly. 20 seconds minimum. Dry them for just as long. My boughts of Influenza A were caused by a Strep infection picked up in hospital. If you can avoid living in a hospital, do it.

[Winston001]

Medicine has moved a very very long way since 1918.

So have viruses. :chase:

The unique thing about viruses compared to bacteria is that science has NO cure. Antibiotics work against bacteria but there is nothing to kill or cure a virus. Which is why we all still suffer from the common cold.

Immunisation is the only defence against viruses, and its very effective. However there are many many viruses which affect humans and we are not immunised against most of them.

On the positive side, this particular strain of swine flu appears only mildly contagious and not particularly lethal.

[Maha]

Swine Flu didn't do alot of harm in 1976, why should it be any different today?
Has it mutated beyond controll?...I dont think so. If the slum dwellers of Mexico City cant afford to get to a doctor then that is sad for them. The unfortunate thing is, it gets passed on easily (as does any Flu) and because its an aggressive virus, by the time you visit a Doc, in some cases, it could be to late, that has been proven (by those that have died already) ....get onto it early and chances of living are very good.
I am no expert on the subject, but that what I get of the News reports.

[Edbear]

Very close - neutrophil count is approx 2% above being labelled neutropenia, is completely in keeping with his underlying genetic disorder, and is why there is a tendency to leukaemia amongst his people.

The strong and fit die with Influenza A strains because there is often a bacterial component, as there is with swine flu. The transmission vector can be infectious bacterium which is taken deep into the lungs. Swine 'flu works best in healthy lungs.

One reason that the old and very young may appear to suffer less is that they don't associate with that demographic much.

There's a simple way to keep 'flu at bay. Wash your hands properly. 20 seconds minimum. Dry them for just as long. My boughts of Influenza A were caused by a Strep infection picked up in hospital. If you can avoid living in a hospital, do it.

So that's why anti-biotics are used? How dangerous is the virus on its own? Is it purely that it weakens the immune system or are the symptoms themselves an issue?

[Genestho]

BBC's Talking point, views from Mexico...This Doctors viewpoint is all over the net...

I'm a specialist doctor in respiratory diseases and intensive care at the Mexican National Institute of Health. There is a severe emergency over the swine flu here. More and more patients are being admitted to the intensive care unit. Despite the heroic efforts of all staff (doctors, nurses, specialists, etc) patients continue to inevitably die. The truth is that anti-viral treatments and vaccines are not expected to have any effect, even at high doses. It is a great fear among the staff. The infection risk is very high among the doctors and health staff.

There is a sense of chaos in the other hospitals and we do not know what to do. Staff are starting to leave and many are opting to retire or apply for holidays. The truth is that mortality is even higher than what is being reported by the authorities, at least in the hospital where I work it. It is killing three to four patients daily, and it has been going on for more than three weeks. It is a shame and there is great fear here. Increasingly younger patients aged 20 to 30 years are dying before our helpless eyes and there is great sadness among health professionals here.
Antonio Chavez, Mexico City

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/8018428.stm

Prepare? I don't think you could prepare, stay behind closed doors, make sure you have enough of what you need to live basic for a month, who knows?

[Lissa]

My eight year old was watching TV as I was cooking dinner she came running up to me upset telling me she doesnt want to get that flu. I had to tell her not to worry and that its not in NZ. I never told her it could come here, but I am going to make sure that she doenst watch the news again, I dont want her to overworry about it, it sounded damn awful on the news.

[jaymzw]

Mock all you like buddy, do some more research & youll agree that we should be really thankfull that we're not in America at the moment.....

I'm happy i'm not in America most of the time:doh:

[Usarka]

Looks like I picked the wrong week for major surgery at hosp.

Woohoo! BTWI heard the local mexican restaurant has a special on pork burritos.

[peasea]

My eight year old was watching TV as I was cooking dinner she came running up to me upset telling me she doesnt want to get that flu. I had to tell her not to worry and that its not in NZ. I never told her it could come here, but I am going to make sure that she doenst watch the news again, I dont want her to overworry about it, it sounded damn awful on the news.

You need to change channels or turn the bloody thing off at news time, it'll make your kids paranoid and scar them for life. In fact, the latter option is probably best all round. Who knows, your 8y/o probably lies awake at night worring about the property market crashing, the economic crisis and that crock of shit they call global warming.

Let her be an 8y/o in fun-loving, blissful ignorance. She'll find out the truth about this wonderful planet of ours soon enough.

[peasea]

Looks like I picked the wrong week for major surgery at hosp.

Woohoo! BTWI heard the local mexican restaurant has a special on pork burritos.


Don't tell me; you flu down for one?

[Ixion]

Did you know that one of the earlier , but very serious, symptoms of the pig flu, is loss of balance. The worst cases present with recurrent episodes falling off their chairs. There is little hope for these poor souls

On a brighter note , if all the pigs get pig flu (well, in logic, they should), we should be safe from speeding tickets for a while.

Though on reflection, perhaps that would require snake flu.

[Lissa]

You need to change channels or turn the bloody thing off at news time, it'll make your kids paranoid and scar them for life. In fact, the latter option is probably best all round. Who knows, your 8y/o probably lies awake at night worring about the property market crashing, the economic crisis and that crock of shit they call global warming.

Let her be an 8y/o in fun-loving, blissful ignorance. She'll find out the truth about this wonderful planet of ours soon enough.
Yea sure I dont usually watch the news myself, so if I had known she was going to watch it, I wouldnt have let her, but you know being eight she can use a remote. I know all about kids should be kids for as long as possible.

But how can you control what goes on at school? My daughter found out about the little girl that was killed by her Uncles, not in the school yard, but at topic time in the classroom. She also knew about the birdflu from school as well... I have to be able to answer her questions, they dont hide anything from kids at school anymore. Infact she was told by her teacher that me and her father were not allowed to smack her, or lay a finger on her, which is of course right.

[peasea]

Did you know that one of the earlier , but very serious, symptoms of the pig flu, is loss of balance. The worst cases present with recurrent episodes falling off their chairs.

OMG! I'm doomed.

[peasea]

Yea sure I dont usually watch the news myself, so if I had known she was going to watch it, I wouldnt have let her, but you know being eight she can use a remote. I know all about kids should be kids for as long as possible.

But how can you control what goes on at school? My daughter found out about the little girl that was killed by her Uncles, not in the school yard, but at topic time in the classroom. She also knew about the birdflu from school as well... I have to be able to answer her questions, they dont hide anything from kids at school anymore. Infact she was told by her teacher that me and her father were not allowed to smack her, or lay a finger on her, which is of course right.

Go give the teacher the bash. Fuckers.

[pzkpfw]

They say this thing might have started in cheap Mexican intensive pig farming places.

i.e. lots of pigs jammed in, sick, and in contact with people.

I think the same thing, more or less, is true of bird flu (people close to intensly farmed birds).

That all gives the virus the chance to jump species.

I REALLY REALLY hate to say this, but I started to wonder if the veggies are on to something.

I know folk have got hepatitis from fruit picked by infected people (the South Auckland blueberry scare of a few years back), but overall an intensively farmed fruit or vegetable seems safer than intensively farmed meat...

(Warning, the above may be all bollocks.)

[Pixie]

Well...that should keep W.H.O. happy - '"swine flu" is rampant' they scream. 'Everybody stay home - gobble up tamiflu - wrap your kids in cotton wool and stick 'em in glass cases...' Just heard someone canceled their trip to Mexico despite going to a place 1000km away from the outbreak...talk about over-reaction...

Dunno about anyone else but I could feel the glee as I listened to the first reports from the chief boohoo of W.H.O. Sounds like a media beatup to me. Flu. Pah. I seem to recall the race surviving all the flu epidemics that came through when I was a kid. Guess we must have got soft in modern times huh..?

Yeah the 1918 flu pandemic was a beat up too.20 million dead - sure!

[jonbuoy]

Yeah the 1918 flu pandemic was a beat up too.20 million dead - sure!

And thats without air travel!

[Mikkel]

Just relax.

[Winston001]

What I and other posters really object to is the media cries of alurum over this flu. They immediately jump to the worst possible scenario, try to blame authorities for not moving fast enough, and breathlessly interview virologists hoping to draw statements of lethality.

TV One last night had Wendy Petrie reporting live from in front of Rangitoto High School for 15 minutes. How dramatic! How.......unnecessary.

Yes we need coverage, yes it could be bad, but as Maha says, the 1976 outbreak fizzled out. Anyone seen that reported? :shit:

[Swoop]

On a brighter note , if all the pigs get pig flu (well, in logic, they should), we should be safe from speeding tickets for a while.
I'm eating lots of donuts as an antidote.

TV One last night had Wendy Petrie reporting live from in front of Rangitoto High School for 15 minutes. How dramatic! How.......unnecessary.
The sooner that tvnz gets sold off the better. Fuckwits.

[Mikkel]

A pandemic that killed only gullible people would be awesome. Then the people who were scared had good reason to be so. And the people who weren't worried would be right as well. See, everyone would win - brilliant!

Oh, and as an added bonus we'd weed out some of the religious bonkers and conspiracy theorists out there too. Only downside is that there would be fewer idiots to laugh at on teh internetz.

[peasea]

The sooner that tvnz gets sold off the better. Fuckwits.

OHHH, fuckin' bravo! Talk about an old folks home....jobs for the boys and a bunch of snouts in the feed bag.

I know people that work there and people that HAVE worked there. Past employees have given me their (probably accurate from what I've seen) take on things while those still there sure as hell aren't going hungry.

How many people does it take to read the news? I can recall the likes of Phillp Sherry doing an admirable job singlehanded. (That's just the tip of the iceberg.....)


Yup, flog it off and let it stand or fall on its own merits, like the rest of us.

[Pussy]

I've just heard from a mate up north. He is REALLY concerned.

He's wondering how he is going to have a beer with a face mask on

[peasea]

A pandemic that killed only gullible people would be awesome. Then the people who were scared had good reason to be so. And the people who weren't worried would be right as well. See, everyone would win - brilliant!

Oh, and as an added bonus we'd weed out some of the religious bonkers and conspiracy theorists out there too. Only downside is that there would be fewer idiots to laugh at on teh internetz.


You know what would be funny? A disease that only affected those who drink bottled water, that'd be funny. Something in the plastic bottle leaching into the H2O and making everyone who drank it come out in permanent dazzle-green spots. Then we could mock them for their entire lifetime for being suckers of the gargantuan kind.:woohoo:

[peasea]

I've just heard from a mate up north. He is REALLY concerned.

He's wondering how he is going to have a beer with a face mask on

A hole-punch and a straw will sort that out.
Don't thank me, I'm happy to help.

[slofox]

What I and other posters really object to is the media cries of alurum over this flu. They immediately jump to the worst possible scenario, try to blame authorities for not moving fast enough, and breathlessly interview virologists hoping to draw statements of lethality.

TV One last night had Wendy Petrie reporting live from in front of Rangitoto High School for 15 minutes. How dramatic! How.......unnecessary.

Yes we need coverage, yes it could be bad, but as Maha says, the 1976 outbreak fizzled out. Anyone seen that reported? :shit:

Well said that man. This is just what I object to - that and the avid response of those who think they might have a chance to grandstand over it and be very important "heroes" who get all the media spotlight. Seems perhaps such people are trying to justify their existence...

[Maha]

Looks like I picked the wrong week for major surgery at hosp.

Woohoo! BTWI heard the local mexican restaurant has a special on pork burritos.

Just stay away from sneezing pigs and y'all will be ok.

[slofox]

The fact that sales of pork products are falling as a result of this flu speaks volumes about the intelligence of the human species...:weird:

[EJK]

On today's The Press


South Island Passengers on flight NZ1

10 from Nelson/ Marlborough
4 from Westcoast
14 from Otago/ Southland
37 from Canterbury including 7 showing flu symptoms


Woohoo I'm fucked now!

[Pussy]

A hole-punch and a straw will sort that out.
Don't thank me, I'm happy to help.

My mate up north is a real noble bastard.
Last year when the flooding was happening, he was stuck in the Keri Keri pub.

He bravely fought off the rescuers

[Bonez]

Guys all around the country start taking their wives to the doctor.....Mines quite capable going to the docs all by herself. I might catch something if I go to such a desease ridden local.

[Swoop]

OHHH, fuckin' bravo! Talk about an old folks home....jobs for the boys and a bunch of snouts in the feed bag.

I know people that work there and people that HAVE worked there. Past employees have given me their (probably accurate from what I've seen) take on things while those still there sure as hell aren't going hungry.

How many people does it take to read the news? I can recall the likes of Phillp Sherry doing an admirable job singlehanded. (That's just the tip of the iceberg.....)


Yup, flog it off and let it stand or fall on its own merits, like the rest of us.

At least with the idiots in the media being distracted by this crap, the economy will recover a bit without their bagging and doomsaying...

[peasea]

At least with the idiots in the media being distracted by this crap, the economy will recover a bit without their bagging and doomsaying...

It's amazing how well things run when you leave well alone isn't it?

Fuckin' media! They climbed onto the property bandwagon just as we put our house on the market. It's a conspiracy I say..

[Mikkel]

The fact that sales of pork products are falling as a result of this flu speaks volumes about the intelligence of the human species...:weird:

At least the rest of us will be able to have a bloody good fry-up for no money at all then :D

[madbikeboy]

Okay, I haven't read this entire thread, but here's some stuff to think about.

1. The media hyping this is a good thing.
I was in Singapore and Malaysia during the bird flu outbreak, the Avian pandemic would have been worse without the massive reaction from authorities - the part the media played was that it scared everyone into using protection and isolated people from one another.

2. A pandemic is inevitable.
Ebola is a good example, it's a nasty little bug, but it kills people too quickly - with modern jet travel, a nasty virus like ebola could decimate the population, if it were airborne, and if it was slightly less efficient.

3. Virus vs modern medicine.
Guess how many viruses we can cure with all the benefits on modern medicine. None, zip, zero, nada. You either live through an infection, or die.

4. Is this the big one? Probably not, reports are coming in from the states that the strain seems to "water down", most of the second generation seem to be surviving.

5. 1918, and the black plague. The plague was worse.
The origins of the plague are disputed among scholars. Some historians believe the pandemic began in China or Central Asia (one such location is lake Issyk Kul)[6] in the lungs of the bobac variety of marmot, spreading to fleas, to rats, and eventually to humans.[7] In the late 1320s or 1330s, and during the next years merchants and soldiers carried it over the caravan routes until in 1346 it reached the Crimea in South Eastern Europe. Other scholars believe the plague was endemic in that area. In either case, from Crimea the plague spread to Western Europe and North Africa during the 1340s.[8][9] The total number of deaths worldwide is estimated at 75 million people,[10] approximately 25–50 million of which occurred in Europe.[11][12] The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% to 60% of Europe's population.[13][14][15] It may have reduced the world's population from an estimated 450 million to between 350 and 375 million in 1400.[16]

I have spent time with the team responsible for a reaction to a pandemic in Auckland, let me assure you that they're pretty smart, and they worry about it. The logistics of a pandemic are awful, collection of bodies, societal breakdown, food distribution, essential service coordination... Fun stuff indeed.

[Genestho]

It's amazing how well things run when you leave well alone isn't it?

Fuckin' media! They climbed onto the property bandwagon just as we put our house on the market. It's a conspiracy I say..

I agree, speculation is the greatest conspiracy, people have and will always go mobbing in the directions of the media's musings.

Property Development was the same!

Still if you can get the facts without the breathlessness, it would be nice:yes:

[slofox]

At least the rest of us will be able to have a bloody good fry-up for no money at all then :D

Yeah - I think I'll order a tonne of bacon...

[peasea]

I agree, speculation is the greatest conspiracy, people have and will always go mobbing in the directions of the media's musings.

Property Development was the same!

Still if you can get the facts without the breathlessness, it would be nice:yes:

That's called quality journalism, pretty hard to find these days.

[Mikkel]

Yeah - I think I'll order a tonne of bacon...

You sure it'll be a tonne and not a ton? :scratch:

[slofox]

You sure it'll be a tonne and not a ton? :scratch:

Yep...1000kg

[Winston001]

1. The media hyping this is a good thing.
I was in Singapore and Malaysia during the bird flu outbreak, the Avian pandemic would have been worse without the massive reaction from authorities - the part the media played was that it scared everyone into using protection and isolated people from one another.

Good post. This point is debatable however because the SARS virus hasn't yet shown itself to be readily transmissible from human to human. Bird to human - yes. Human to human - not known.

Still, not nice and certainly worth protecting against.


2. A pandemic is inevitable.
Ebola is a good example, it's a nasty little bug, but it kills people too quickly - with modern jet travel, a nasty virus like ebola could decimate the population, if it were airborne, and if it was slightly less efficient.

Agreed. There will inevitably be a pandemic, history shows us that.

There are 4 strains of Ebola, one of Marburg and one of Lassa Fever. These are regarded as the most deadly of the transmissible viral diseases. So far they are largely confined to Africa but air travel means they can easily enter our community.


3. Virus vs modern medicine.
Guess how many viruses we can cure with all the benefits on modern medicine. None, zip, zero, nada. You either live through an infection, or die.

Totally agree.


I have spent time with the team responsible for a reaction to a pandemic in Auckland, let me assure you that they're pretty smart, and they worry about it. The logistics of a pandemic are awful, collection of bodies, societal breakdown, food distribution, essential service coordination... Fun stuff indeed.

Well said. My wife is also involved with this planning and its a hugely complicated matter. For example, if 20% of families visited the supermarket today and stocked up on a week's food, there be nothing tomorrow for the rest of us. And if the warehouses, truckies, petrol stations all shut down, no resupply.

[madbikeboy]

There are 4 strains of Ebola, one of Marburg and one of Lassa Fever. These are regarded as the most deadly of the transmissible viral diseases. So far they are largely confined to Africa but air travel means they can easily enter our community.


Ebola is a hemorrhagic fever, the Zaire variant has a 90% mortality rate (greater than 80% average since the first outbreak). It is difficult to spread, it kills very quickly, and it isn't airborne. Scientists have been trying to find the host organism for 30 years, and they've tested some 30,000 animals.

If Ebola were airborne, and if it were slightly less virile and fragile, we'd all be seriously fucked.

The black plauge was also hemorrhagic fever (supposedly), so that puts that one into perspective. 50 - 75 million deaths between 1300 - 1400. I'm not interested in the human viruses, I'm interested in how computer viruses spread, it's almost identical in terms of model...

[Stirts]

Just stay away from sneezing pigs and y'all will be ok.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=23382

[Maha]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=23382

Theres nothing in your quote, what happened to your quote? did the pig virus get it in because there is no mask?

[Winston001]

Ebola is a hemorrhagic fever, the Zaire variant has a 90% mortality rate (greater than 80% average since the first outbreak). It is difficult to spread, it kills very quickly, and it isn't airborne. Scientists have been trying to find the host organism for 30 years, and they've tested some 30,000 animals.

If Ebola were airborne, and if it were slightly less virile and fragile, we'd all be seriously fucked.

The black plauge was also hemorrhagic fever (supposedly), so that puts that one into perspective. 50 - 75 million deaths between 1300 - 1400....

Didn't know that - rather begs the question of what happened to the virus? Presumably it is still around in a reservoir somewhere.

The haemorrhagic diseases are swift and awful. Ebola Uganda is a bit tougher than the others and could spread if it ever got underway. Whats interesting - and frightening - is the military research which has gone into weaponising Ebola.

Viral diseases require a vector to infect the next host. Commonly this is bacteria in bodily fluid such as a sneeze. However Ebola, Marburg etc aren't very good at hanging around in midair waiting to be inhaled. So weaponising requires a medium which will protect the virus from ultraviolet and dehydration until it can get to a human.

All of which is entirely irrelevant to the current situation......:bash:

[LBD]

I was in ...oink...Spain for the last two weeks...grunt.
Four days before ...oink...leaving, I started getting stiff and sore...oink...
Two days before leaving I started sneezing and a sore throat developed...
Then blocked ...oink ...sinuses which are no fun when flying...grunt
Rested for the weekend then to work on Mon....oink...day (Mining Camp )
Tuesday morning...I read that there....oink...is confirmed cases of Piggy flu in Spain...grunt.
Straight to the Doc and the conversation went like this...

Hi doc, last week oink. oink oink oink! oink ...oink oink?

Lets check your temp...okay? oink!

No your temp is fine if it was over 38 C I would be concerned, and you are not showing any other of the main swine flu signs, so heres some good drugs and you can run along now little piggy!

Okay, Oink you very much..

That pretty much it, and I guess reading the above you can assume I am still using those good drugs....Still have sore throat and coughing up lots o phelgum but improving.

Oink

[tri boy]

This site is worth a browse.
http://www.idemc.org/index.php?area=

[Badjelly]

The black plauge was also hemorrhagic fever (supposedly), so that puts that one into perspective. 50 - 75 million deaths between 1300 - 1400.


Didn't know that - rather begs the question of what happened to the virus? Presumably it is still around in a reservoir somewhere.

The Black Death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death) was an outbreak of bubonic plague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague) which is caused by a bacterium. The last (third) pandemic of this plague killed millions worldwide between the mid-18th to early-20th centuries.

When I lived in Colorado I was told that prairie dogs carry bubonic plague and a few people in the US catch it each year. I stayed well away from prairie dog holes!

Yeah, it's still around.

My view on the swine flu: I hope the public health authorities err on the side of overreaction to it and squelch it now, so in a couple of years time people like Slofox can claim it as yet another false alarm. Luckily the virus seems to be cooperating by becoming less virulent as it spreads. But I do find the breathless media coverage of these things a bit irritating.

What, me worry? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mad30.jpg)

[Mikkel]

The black plauge was also hemorrhagic fever (supposedly), so that puts that one into perspective. 50 - 75 million deaths between 1300 - 1400. I'm not interested in the human viruses, I'm interested in how computer viruses spread, it's almost identical in terms of model...

And to put that into perspective that was somewhere between 10 and 20% of the entire population of the world. I.e. today, if things got equally bad, we'd be looking at upwards of 1 billion - 1,000 million - 1,000,000,000 dead people. And that's not even taking into account that the population is much much more mobile these days - ergo spread across continents would be a breeze.

It's an interesting thing - for a virus to be devestating it can't be too effective. It'll need a longish incubation time with no disturbing symptoms - but also an efficient way of spreading. I.e. something that'll keep you sneezing for a couple of weeks before it kills you...

Still, we've got other things (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/new-yorksized-ice-shelf-collapses-off-antarctica-1675400.html) than viruses to worry about too.

[Mikkel]

The Black Death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death) was an outbreak of bubonic plague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague) which is caused by a bacterium. The last (third) pandemic of this plague killed millions worldwide between the mid-18th to early-20th centuries.

I do believe that the jury is still out on exactly what the "Black Death" was. If you read the wikipedia entry a bit more closely bubonic plague spread by rats is the old-school verdict - newer research suggests haemorrhagic fever. Only certainty is that the more recent plagues were bubonic plague.

Old days: Plague = anything that kills a lot of people.

[madbikeboy]

I do believe that the jury is still out on exactly what the "Black Death" was. If you read the wikipedia entry a bit more closely bubonic plague spread by rats is the old-school verdict - newer research suggests haemorrhagic fever. Only certainty is that the more recent plagues were bubonic plague.

Old days: Plague = anything that kills a lot of people.

Interesting, I got the idea it was haemorrhagic from a scientist mate of mine (she's good looking, and smart). We got talking about it the other night for a few hours.

As for sea level rise, and global warming - yeah, huge concern, not only because I live 40 meters from the water... Climate change brings us more bad weather, does anyone recall Hurricane Katrina - well, more of the same is on the way...

[doc]

They have a preserved rat in the Auckland medical school patholgy museum exhibits . This rat carried the Bubonic plague virus and was found in Remuera in the 70's ish. Don' ask about what some science students of the same era, did when their nuclear experiments that didn't work :crazy:

[Mikkel]

Interesting, I got the idea it was haemorrhagic from a scientist mate of mine (she's good looking, and smart). We got talking about it the other night for a few hours.

That's always an issue with historical events - for starters medical science in the dark ages was largely unexisting (nor was any kind of non-church sanctioned studies encouraged, unless you were really cold). As such it's incredibly difficult to establish what it was. More recent plagues are a bit easier to deal with since the records are better.

I watched a very interesting documentary on the black death a few years back. Some of the historic sources suggests a pattern that would fit bubonic plague and others again contradict that theory. Ultimately I doubt anyone would be able to rule out bubonic plague and a haemorrhagic fever in combination. After all, if one epidemic weakens the people the second one should have an even easier time getting a foothold.

Smallpox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox) makes for some very interesting reading too - good thing it appears we've got that boxed in... for now.


As for sea level rise, and global warming - yeah, huge concern, not only because I live 40 meters from the water... Climate change brings us more bad weather, does anyone recall Hurricane Katrina - well, more of the same is on the way...

Yep, we pretty much have no idea what we are in for in that regard. Except that we're going to see change, most likely dramatic change. Guess getting a really good set of wets might be worthwhile after all ;)

[madbikeboy]

Smallpox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox) makes for some very interesting reading too - good thing it appears we've got that boxed in... for now.



Yep, we pretty much have no idea what we are in for in that regard. Except that we're going to see change, most likely dramatic change. Guess getting a really good set of wets might be worthwhile after all ;)

Hmm, for now is right.


My GF is doing her PhD in Environmental Sustainability... So I get it...

[scracha]

It's like the recession no? Don't mention it as it makes it all worse.

Bhwhahaha.

[Disco Dan]

I'm pretty concerned about this. I have a family member that works at North Shore hospital:

They have body bags stockpiled.
There is only enough tamiflu for 1/3 of the population.

Few more things, but I cannot say without identifying the person or getting others in trouble.

But on the lighter side... I found a few jokes already...

[Brian d marge]

interesting reading this thread

but you most probably have had swine fever ,,, you remember when you got pinged for 105 in a 100 zone ,.... you show pretty much all the symptoms then .....

most of the time , its the rhino virus ( so Jim said on National radio the other day ) if you get influenza you WILL know about it and if buying Tami flu makes you happy ,,go for it

The idiots over here have been buying masks ,,,cause TV said so ...

Me I am washing my hands and gargling and following your basic hygiene..

either way when the big page turns and your name comes up , there ain't no point in arguing , just make damn sure you have had a good time ,,,,

a tishoo a tishoo we all fall down ...........
Stephen

[Hans]

Is that a swine in my pocket or am i just happy to see flu?

I just flu in from Mexico and boy, are my arms sore.


Etc...

Etc..

[Badjelly]

On the question of whether the pandemic of swine flu (we call it H1N1 these days) is overhyped, I reckon this guy makes a lot of sense:

http://www.badscience.net/2009/04/parmageddon/

Actually, every column and blog post written by Ben Goldacre (http://www.badscience.net/) makes a lot of sense. Why don't we have a single newspaper columnist in NZ of the same quality? Michael Laws? Rosemary whats-her-name? Puh-lease! But I digress.

[Quasievil]

Still, we've got other things (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/new-yorksized-ice-shelf-collapses-off-antarctica-1675400.html) than viruses to worry about too.

so what bro, if I have a glass of water with a ice cube stuck to the side of it, then it unsticks whats the difference? nothing bar the small percentage of it above the water line if it melts.

Global warming........maybe, climates changed since earth ws created and will always do so, Man made PFFFTT !! its the biggest swindle in the modern world, designed to get people paid and that dont include us

[Badjelly]

so what bro, if I have a glass of water with a ice cube stuck to the side of it, then it unsticks whats the difference? nothing bar the small percentage of it above the water line if it melts.

Global warming........maybe, climates changed since earth ws created and will always do so, Man made PFFFTT !! its the biggest swindle in the modern world, designed to get people paid and that dont include us

The cogency of your argument astounds me!

[Mikkel]

so what bro, if I have a glass of water with a ice cube stuck to the side of it, then it unsticks whats the difference? nothing bar the small percentage of it above the water line if it melts.

Indeed, and that is why it would make no difference if the north pole melts... Archimedes principle.

However, the south pole (and Greenland I might add) is quite different in that regard. While the iceshelves themselves are not too much of a concern all of the ice sitting on the antarctic continent mainland is - if all of that melts it will make a difference. Simply because it's not already floating in the ocean. And some of that ice is being held back by the iceshelves - imagine ice layered 3 kms deep for a start...


Global warming........maybe, climates changed since earth ws created and will always do so, Man made PFFFTT !! its the biggest swindle in the modern world, designed to get people paid and that dont include us

Indeed the climate changes over time - however it is very very important to understand how human activity impacts upon the change as well as just understanding and preparing for the potential consequences of natural climate change. After all, one would have to be an utter imbecile to argue against sustainability!



Anyway, swine flu...

[Quasievil]

Indeed the climate changes over time - however it is very very important to understand how human activity impacts upon the change as well as just understanding and preparing for the potential consequences of natural climate change. After all, one would have to be an utter imbecile to argue against sustainability!



im interested in continuing the climate change discussion but it needs its own thread really, however I will say, that human activity doesnt and hasnt encouraged or promoted climate change at all.
There is a list of 31000 scientists many PHD who have signed a petition stating denying that man is responsible for global warming including 9000 with PHDs who suggest carbon dioxide and methane gases are actually bennificial for the enviroment, there is no similiar list with even 500 scientists suggesting the opposite.
Daily Telegraph article
Quoted (in part) from AIR CON, Ian Wisharts book

The whole global warming thing is about money, kyoto has taken Trillions and for what gain, next is the copenhagen treay, that will take more and it will take it from the average kiwi to the tune of around $3,000 pa minimum.

anyway new thread somewhere, and Im interested in the whole thing (both sides) im having a bit of a personal study on it
:crazy:

[Badjelly]

...anyway new thread somewhere, and Im interested in the whole thing (both sides) im having a bit of a personal study on it. :crazy:

Sounds good to me. I've been having a bit of a personal study on it, too, but I think we've been looking at different books!

[Hans]

I'm all for the global warming thread. Start it already...;)

[Mikkel]

im interested in continuing the climate change discussion but it needs its own thread really, however I will say, that human activity doesnt and hasnt encouraged or promoted climate change at all.
There is a list of 31000 scientists many PHD who have signed a petition stating denying that man is responsible for global warming including 9000 with PHDs who suggest carbon dioxide and methane gases are actually bennificial for the enviroment, there is no similiar list with even 500 scientists suggesting the opposite.

Just because 31,000 scientists sign a bloody petition doesn't make it fact mate. Also, a Ph.D. doesn't necessarily mean anything - e.g. a Ph.D. in history doesn't make you more qualified to comment upon climate change than anyone else... just like a Ph.D. in astrophysics doesn't make you an expert on welfare systems.
Here you are making statements about things you do not know, as if it was fact. That is a rather unreasonable approach.

Anyone who blindly denies that human activity has had - or indeed ever will - have an impact upon climate change without supporting evidence is a bloody fool no matter their qualification. Same goes for the people who cries "the sky is falling". It doesn't really matter whether you bury you head in the sand or have a go at playing chicken little - both approaches are ultimately unconstructive.

I am neither saying that human activity has a huge impact nor that it has a marginal impact upon climate change - all I am saying is that it is bloody important to know for sure! Reality is not about all or nothing - human activity must necessarily have an impact upon the climate - but we need to know the magnitude and direction of the impact.

[Quasievil]

Just because 31,000 scientists sign a bloody petition doesn't make it fact mate. Also, a Ph.D. doesn't necessarily mean anything - e.g. a Ph.D. in history doesn't make you more qualified to comment upon climate change than anyone else... just like a Ph.D. in astrophysics doesn't make you an expert on welfare systems.
Here you are making statements about things you do not know, as if it was fact. That is a rather unreasonable approach.

Anyone who blindly denies that human activity has had - or indeed ever will - have an impact upon climate change without supporting evidence is a bloody fool no matter their qualification. Same goes for the people who cries "the sky is falling". It doesn't really matter whether you bury you head in the sand or have a go at playing chicken little - both approaches are ultimately unconstructive.

I am neither saying that human activity has a huge impact nor that it has a marginal impact upon climate change - all I am saying is that it is bloody important to know for sure! Reality is not about all or nothing - human activity must necessarily have an impact upon the climate - but we need to know the magnitude and direction of the impact.


And neither does a ex vice president who makes a scare mongering movie which has been proven in the English high court to be factually incorrect. The fools in this subject are the one's who absorb the B.S that is raked from the few (and it is a few) who are busy promoting the "chicken little the sky is falling" agendas of the whole climate warming con to the governments of this world, and guess what here comes some new taxes.

ANYTHING in this world has two sides, if one side has a money agenda then look a bit deeper than the media hype, and in many cases you will find the mis truths, which in the case of the global warning con is riddled with floors and complete lack of science.

Global warming and the soon to come taxes is the Con of the century

[Mikkel]

ANYTHING in this world has two sides, if one side has a money agenda then look a bit deeper than the media hype, and in many cases you will find the mis truths, which in the case of the global warning con is riddled with floors and complete lack of science.

So the people being taxed doesn't have money and an agenda? Well in that case they wouldn't have anything to worry about... hmmm ;)

Besides, Badjelly started the thread you requested. Some mod, somewhat randomly perhaps, decided to merge it with the "great global swindle" thread - so you should be doing a happy dance, you've got the mods on your side mate. (Not that, that actually helps the credibility of your claims - people are always whinging about tax rises AND the fact that welfare/social security/healthcare/etc/ad/nauseum/ isn't good enough.

[Winston001]

And neither does a ex vice president who makes a scare mongering movie which has been proven in the English high court to be factually incorrect.....

We've got another thread Quasi but just need to correct you on this fallacy. What happened is the judge ruled that An Inconvenient Truth should be shown in schools - the case was an attempt to stop it. He mentioned 9 points which were arguable. The judge was really ruling on how "Guidance Notes" for teachers should be provided to allow for more in depth discussion of these points in the classroom.

It was a film, not a scientific paper. It was aimed at getting people thinking.

[Badjelly]

The World Health Organisation has to make a decision on whether drug companies should switch their production from regular flu vaccine to pandemic vaccine.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10570971

Vaccine producers can only make one kind of flu vaccine at a time. WHO is likely to tell vaccine makers to switch to making one for the pandemic strain. But that decision means they have to guess whether the world will need pandemic vaccine more than it needs regular flu vaccine.

Why ask the experts? They should just do a poll on KB! :msn-wink:

[Hitcher]

http://www.doihavepigflu.com/

[Maki]

Since this pig flu is less virulent than most common forms of flu, that routinely kill a number of people who are already weakened by other sicknesses or malnutrition, etc., then you have got to wonder what the big deal is?

I for one think the hysteria surrounding the pig flu has reached criminal proportions and those who have wasted time and money by quarantining people who have flu like symptoms and created red tape at airports should face the consequences of their stupid money and time wasting actions.

:bash:

If the pig flu was really dangerous they did far too little. ALL international flights should have been stopped.

The pig flu is a damp squib so they did far too much.

Am I guilty of second guessing and being smart after the event. No.

Health authorities had two avenues open to them. One, consider this flu deadly and do everything in their power to stop it from spreading. That would mean stopping ALL international flights and quarantining everyone who may have been in contact with the flu. Two, consider the flu harmless and do nothing. They went the middle way which failed and would ALSO have failed if this was a deadly disease.

[Badjelly]

If the pig flu was really dangerous they did far too little. ALL international flights should have been stopped. The pig flu is a damp squib so they did far too much.

But 10 days ago there was reason to believe the pig flu might be really dangerous, given that it has killed quite a few people in Mexico. So at that time, with the knowledge they had then, should they have stopped all international flights? For how long?

[Maki]

But 10 days ago there was reason to believe the pig flu might be really dangerous, given that it has killed quite a few people in Mexico. So at that time, with the knowledge they had then, should they have stopped all international flights? For how long?

They didn't know it was really dangerous so they should not have done anything. If they reckoned that they knew it was really dangerous they should have stopped international flights, untill they reckoned it was not dangerous.

There is reason to believe many dangerous diseases are floating around. Quite a lot more people have died from them today than ever died from the pig flu in Mexico. Should we stop all international flights for that reason? HELL NO and we should not make a fuss at airports or quaranteen anybody either, untill there is a GOOD reason to do so.

All this media fueled hysteria has accomplised is to sell tamilflu, Which may have fatal side effects ("The Japanese health ministry also reported that between 2004 and 2007 out of a 128 serious cases of adverse psychological reactions, some 15 of the 128 reported cases attempted suicide with 8 of them dying in these attempts." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/swine-flu-q-amp-a-is-tamiflu-ndash-or-a-vaccine-ndash-the-answer-1676395.html), and waste time and money.

[Badjelly]

They didn't know it was really dangerous so they should not have done anything.

I disagree. I'm glad the NZ Government has made the efforts it has to limit the spread, just in case the disease turned out (turns out) to be more serious than it seems. I'm glad they didn't stop all international flights, because that would have caused huge disruption.

I might fall off my bike and hit my head, so I wear a helmet. I have fallen off a bike more times than I care to admit and the helmet never hit the ground once. I wear a helmet anyway.

[Maki]

I disagree. I'm glad the NZ Government has made the efforts it has to limit the spread, just in case the disease turned out (turns out) to be more serious than it seems. I'm glad they didn't stop all international flights, because that would have caused huge disruption.

I might fall off my bike and hit my head, so I wear a helmet. I have fallen off a bike more times than I care to admit and the helmet never hit the ground once. I wear a helmet anyway.

If this was in fact dangerous, then the "efforts" of the NZ government to limit the spread were woefully inadequate.

[Badjelly]

If this was in fact dangerous, then the "efforts" of the NZ government to limit the spread were woefully inadequate.

That's not my impression. How many cases have there been? Has anyone caught it [I]in/I] New Zealand? I tried to find answers to these questions on NZ news sites, but can't find anything recent. Based on my hazy recollections of what I heard on the news, I think the answers are: Around 10; None. [Edit: this is the best I can find: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/health/news/article.cfm?c_id=204&objectid=10570238. So that's 13 and none.]

But let's get this clear: you think it isn't dangerous so they shouldn't be doing anything. Is that correct? [Edit: Never mind. You've made it pretty clear that's what you do think.]

[Maki]

That's not my impression. How many cases have there been? Has anyone caught it [I]in/I] New Zealand? (I tried to find answers to these questions on NZ news sites, but can't find anything recent. Based on my hazy recollections of what I heard on the news, I think the answers are: Around 10; None.)

But let's get this clear: you think it isn't dangerous so they shouldn't be doing anything. Is that correct?

Good question. The answer is that nobody knows. In fact you yourself may have it. It is a flu, and the experience here is that it has less virulent symptoms than most common flu.

But let's get this clear: you think it isn't dangerous so they shouldn't be doing anything. Is that correct?
Yes, and if it was dangerous they are doing far too little. What they are doing is a pointless waste of time and money.

[want-a-harley]

Swine flu satire

http://www.thenznews.info/NZ%20news%2030.4.html

[Maki]

The lunacy regarding the swine flu continues. Can anyone explain to me what the point of quarantining people left and right who may have the swine flu, when it is inevitable that at least 50% of the population will get it at some stage anyway? It's milder than normal flu, so what is the panic for goodness sake?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10576325

"Dr Peters said that based on modelling by the World Health Organisation, it was predicted that 60 per cent of people would become infected with the new virus, A (H1N1)."

Health authorities should just tell people to stay calm and get on with their lives and stop pretending to do things that they know perfectly well don't do any good whatsoever, like closing perfectly healthy productive people in their homes for days on the odd suspicion that they "may" have the swine flu.

[oldrider]

Well...that should keep W.H.O. happy - '"swine flu" is rampant' they scream. 'Everybody stay home - gobble up tamiflu - wrap your kids in cotton wool and stick 'em in glass cases...' Just heard someone canceled their trip to Mexico despite going to a place 1000km away from the outbreak...talk about over-reaction...

Dunno about anyone else but I could feel the glee as I listened to the first reports from the chief boohoo of W.H.O. Sounds like a media beatup to me. Flu. Pah. I seem to recall the race surviving all the flu epidemics that came through when I was a kid. Guess we must have got soft in modern times huh..?

:bs: Man made for/by the drug companies and the United Nations, WHO etc!

People are in more danger from the vaccines and the medical fascits than they are from the "Virus". :argh:

Vaccines kill or damage more people (especially children) than they ever cure! :doctor:

Conspiracy theory? Wait and see, if you live through it! :blip:

[mowgli]

Perhaps it's all a ruse to divert attention from climate change in the lead up to Copenhagen. Wouldn't want the truth to get in the way of the emissions trading scheme.

[Badjelly]

Climate change conspiracism and vaccine conspiracism in one thread. Cool! :jerry:

[Winston001]

LONDON. As billions of people continue to remain healthy, media organizations say they have grave concerns that the current outbreak of swine flu might not evolve into a global pandemic. "This is a doomsday scenario for us," said a media spokesman. "We've invested hundreds of millions in pandemic scare-mongering, and we really need this one to pay off."

Speaking to themselves this morning, media stables confirmed that they were now bracing for a catastrophic non-pandemic, as reports continue to flood in of areas unaffected by swine flue.

"It's worse than anything we imagined," said spokesman Heinrich Shank. "They assured us this thing would kill millions within days. Apocalyptic horror, they said. People bleeding out of their eyes in every city on the planet.

"And now you wake up to read this kind of stuff. Four kids coughing in Hong Kong and two blokes who feel a bit sweaty getting off a plane in Brazil.

"It's really disturbing, and a lot of people in the industry are pretty frightened at this point."

He said that many journalists now faced a "dark future" and would be forced to start writing their own stories instead of publishing press releases from estate agents explaining why the collapse of property prices was an optical illusion.

However, he said the media would remain proactive, and urged Mexican pig farmers to indulge in more high-risk contact with their pigs, "just in case one of them hits the viral jackpot"........

http://www.hayibo.co.za/articles/view/1031

[Brett]

I blame the recession. Swine Flu is clearly another symptom of the recession and Obama is doing nothing to save the world from it.

On the otherhand...if it knocks the world population down that might be a form of 'stimulus package'.

[oldrider]

Climate change conspiracism and vaccine conspiracism in one thread. Cool! :jerry:

I can accept the isolation part (if they were consistent) but they are not filling me or mine up with their "mandatory" vaccinations!

It is the vaccinations that the epidemic is really all about! $$$$$$$ (IMHO) :doctor: Tamiflue anyone? :bs:

[vifferman]

In The Harold this morning, there was the usual lame attempt to beat up the 'pandemic'. The WHO (not the rock band, the bunch of bureaucrats) have decided that the Swine Flu is officially a pandemic. So, I skim through all the bollocks, looking for some vital statistics.
Here we go: so far, 141 people (Shock! Horror!! :eek5:) have died from the Swine Flu.
But (however!), the less important and famous "ordinary flu" kills between 250,000 and 500,000 people a year. :rolleyes:

Media beat-up, anyone? :Pokey:

[Badjelly]

I can accept the isolation part (if they were consistent) but they are not filling me or mine up with their "mandatory" vaccinations! It is the vaccinations that the epidemic is really all about!

I suspect you and I have very different opinions about the risks and benefits of vaccination. I wasn't aware that mandatory vaccination was being considered. In principle, I think there are situations where mandatory vaccination could be justified, but I don't think the current swine flu pandemic is it. (Yes, it is a pandemic, though of a relatively mild disease.) I expect that I will have the swine flu vaccination when it becomes available. I don't think the pandemic is an excuse by the evil vaccinators to have their way with you and yours.

And there I must leave this discussion.

[cambridgedan]

the swine flu hahaha thats a joke, how do we know that the people that have suposedly died from it havnt died from somethink els, i think they are just making a big deal out of nothingk and the media are loving it in fact they are ringing it dry, reminds me of the bird flu a bit, oh no its the end of the world haha what ever :lol:

[Winston001]

The cynicism about this flu is justified although I'm sure the relatives of the people who died wouldn't agree.

This particular virus has proven to be much milder than expected. Thank goodness.

What the media consistently fail to do is set out the background and reasons for the World Health Organisation concern. There is an excellent post on KB somewhere which touches on the virology of influenza and explains why we need to be vigilant.

The 1919 pandemic wasn't a figment of the imagination. We are only one viral mutation away from that. So I have great sympathy for the health authorities and despair that our journalists can't inform us in a rational way.

[Street Gerbil]

Medicine has moved a very very long way since 1918.
Yes and no.
Yes we are better at treating secondary infections.
No we know about the flu virus about as much as in 1918.

[Pixie]

:bs: Man made for/by the drug companies and the United Nations, WHO etc!

People are in more danger from the vaccines and the medical fascits than they are from the "Virus". :argh:

Vaccines kill or damage more people (especially children) than they ever cure! :doctor:

Conspiracy theory? Wait and see, if you live through it! :blip:

Too many humans anyway

kill 'em

kill 'em all

[Pixie]

....and despair that our journalists can't inform us in a rational way.

Why?

They can't even use English correctly.

[Street Gerbil]

I say it is all hogwash. It is a well known fact that the black plague is a punishment from heavens and treating it with some cockamamie injection is akin to futile attempts of thwarting the God's will with a pagan ritual. Besides only the wicked get smitten, and a truly righteous churchgoing member of the society has nothing but God (and charlatan doctors) to fear.