Two DIY questions

[The Lone Rider]

Thanks for any help offered

1. I have some tiles to re-attach to my shower unit. I believe them to only be decorative, as they are attached to what looks like a plastic wall (enclosed unit I guess?). So what do I use to re-attach it to the plastic wall? And then just a white silicone filler around the tiles like the rest?

2. I have been given a welder - a gasless arc rod welder. It's in working order - and today first time I fired it up. Got a nice crackle, with the choke set to around 90. However.. blew a fuse after about 2 and half crackles. Checked my fuse box... the fuse blown is in a ceramic thing labeled 10a.

How are you suppose to use a single phase "home DIY" welder that goes to 100a, when house fuses seem to be 10 to 25?

I surely am missing something.

[Tank]

2. I have been given a welder - a gasless arc rod welder. It's in working order - and today first time I fired it up. Got a nice crackle, with the choke set to around 90. However.. blew a fuse after about 2 and half crackles. Checked my fuse box... the fuse blown is in a ceramic thing labeled 10a.

How are you suppose to use a single phase "home DIY" welder that goes to 100a, when house fuses seem to be 10 to 25?

I surely am missing something.

Replace fuse with a big bit of number 8 wire. All good*











* Note that this advise should not be followed at any cost. Death and burning down house likely, other side effects may include nausea and drowsiness, and huge amounts of pain.

[nallac]

most single phase welders only draw max of 10 amps the welder then converts that in to what ever amps selected.
my single phase compresser is 15amp,means i had to wire up to an 15amp
fuse with 15amp plus/socket .

[nodrog]

Thanks for any help offered

1. I have some tiles to re-attach to my shower unit. I believe them to only be decorative, as they are attached to what looks like a plastic wall (enclosed unit I guess?). So what do I use to re-attach it to the plastic wall? And then just a white silicone filler around the tiles like the rest?



use some gorilla grip to stick the tile back on, to help adhesion (or however you spell it) rough the plastic wall up with some coarse sandpaper.

make sure you get a silicone with an antifungal agent in it, otherwise you might find you nice white silicone has gone all shitty in a couple of months

[JMemonic]

Ok simply check the output voltage of the welder it will be written on it somewhere, now remember high school physics/science current is inversely proportional to voltage, that welder is heavy as it a whacking great transformer, the heavier the better in this case, it lowers the voltage, but increases the current output.

If you blew the fuse then fuse wire is your friend, but only replace it with 10 amp wire, and if you keep blowing fuses there could be other issues, keep in mind if you have a welder drawing 10 amps and the radio on the same circuit drawing 1 amp that's 11 amps at which point the fuse should blow. If the welder blows that fuse consistently then options for the fault are the welder is drawing to much current which would indicate a short some where, or technique.

[CookMySock]

I have been given a welder - a gasless arc rod welder. It's in working order - and today first time I fired it up. Got a nice crackle, with the choke set to around 90. However.. blew a fuse after about 2 and half crackles. Checked my fuse box... the fuse blown is in a ceramic thing labeled 10a.Replace fuse with a 15a one and try that. Never never be tempted to put a piece of copper wire in there - that is a particularly dangerous thing to do.

I trust you have broadband internet? Go to youtube.com and search for "arc welding" and watch and learn. You will have fun with that. Keep your welding rods in a warm dry place, or they get hard to use (they want to stick to the job all the time, ugh.)


How are you suppose to use a single phase "home DIY" welder that goes to 100a, when house fuses seem to be 10 to 25?This particular welder (probably) has a transformer in it, which lowers the voltage, and at the same time increases the current. Welding needs plenty of current, but not much voltage. It's a bit like a mechanical lever which exchanges distance for force - but an electrical equivalent. More modern welders use a similar device called an inverter - it works sort of the same, but it has other advantages, such as DC current, and its much lighter.

Steve

[cowpoos]

Thanks for any help offered

1. I have some tiles to re-attach to my shower unit. I believe them to only be decorative, as they are attached to what looks like a plastic wall (enclosed unit I guess?). So what do I use to re-attach it to the plastic wall? And then just a white silicone filler around the tiles like the rest?

Go to bunnings and ask for a product called shower bond [you will need a caulking gun]...its used for sticking shower shells to walls..and it shrinks on drying..I think you will this will be the best product. Don't forget to buy the little plastic tile spacers to get the spaces correct...and leave them in. and some duct tape to hold the buggers [tiles] there :)

And yeah...unless you wanna piss around with grout and sealents...I'd just buy a tube of white silocone MS...check on the label that it is a anti mould/fungus.
Best way to get a pro finnish on the silicone...is a small amount of turps on a mutton cloth...rather than trying to use your fingers and make a mess.

[lb99]

plug your welder into the stove, the wiring is definately up to it

i do this with mine, and get the best arcs that way

(have had success on panel steel)

[JMemonic]

Replace fuse with a 15a one and try that. Never never be tempted to put a piece of copper wire in there - that is a particularly dangerous thing to do.


Umm bad advise, it is possible your cable is not rated to 15amps, my garage certainly wasn't, had I done this and used the welder on the circuit it was possible that the insulation could melt, from there the potential to go down hill fast is obvious


plug your welder into the stove, the wiring is definately up to it

i do this with mine, and get the best arcs that way

(have had success on panel steel)

The stove is a great place if it has sockets then there is a good chance they might even be 15 amp rated.

[Brett]

Go to bunnings and ask for a product called shower bond [you will need a caulking gun]...its used for sticking shower shells to walls..and it shrinks on drying..I think you will this will be the best product. Don't forget to buy the little plastic tile spacers to get the spaces correct...and leave them in. and some duct tape to hold the buggers [tiles] there :)

And yeah...unless you wanna piss around with grout and sealents...I'd just buy a tube of white silocone MS...check on the label that it is a anti mould/fungus.
Best way to get a pro finnish on the silicone...is a small amount of turps on a mutton cloth...rather than trying to use your fingers and make a mess.


+1 except by the tilers silicon 'blades' as opposed to fingers or mutton cloth. Put silicon in joint, using a spray bottle such are your spray'n'wipe type filled with water and damped (not soak) the silicon and use the blade to trim off the excess...will look absolutely bro is an easy, no mess method.

[CookMySock]

Umm bad advise, it is possible your cable is not rated to 15amps, my garage certainly wasn't, had I done this and used the welder on the circuit it was possible that the insulation could melt, from there the potential to go down hill fast is obviousIt's not bad advice at all. If you pull 15A through a 10A cable it's not going to do any harm to any part of the system, and your casual observation of flames, melting, and "going down hill fast" is alarmist bs. The worst that can happen there is the cable runs a little warm or you pop another fuse. He isn't running 15A continuous - considering his welding expertise, I would say he is unlikely to hit a duty-cycle of more than 5%.

It's perfectly normal to have a 15A fuse serving a bunch of 10A hotpoints.


The stove is a great place if it has sockets then there is a good chance they might even be 15 amp rated.It sure is. Don't blow a fuse on the stove though, because you wont be fixing that yourself.

As is the normal when doing things that slightly above "normal", you should make sure conditions are optimal. Use a short extension lead or none at all. Make sure the pins are a tight fit, and don't draw full power continuously.

Steve

[JMemonic]

It's not bad advice at all. If you pull 15A through a 10A cable it's not going to do any harm to any part of the system, and your casual observation of flames, melting, and "going down hill fast" is alarmist bs. The worst that can happen there is the cable runs a little warm or you pop another fuse. He isn't running 15A continuous - considering his welding expertise, I would say he is unlikely to hit a duty-cycle of more than 5%.

Duty cycle aside which is a valid point I am figuring you know more than the electrician who looked at the wiring in my garage and load I was drawing and nearly fainted, he explained garages in certain eras were often underrated in the cable used, in fact what was in mine was barely adequate for a 10 amp circuit yet was wired to 2 10 amp sockets in daisy chain so draw 10 off the first then 10 off the second and the first section of cable was over loaded, oh I know this was overloaded as the aforementioned "casual observation" happened, my fault I knew better but was in too much of a rush.

Whats your hourly rate as you could be the person I need to do some wiring here, but then hmmm.


It's perfectly normal to have a 15A fuse serving a bunch of 10A hotpoints.


Assuming the cable is rated for such see above, it is not normal to have a 10 amp cable serving a 15 amp circuit, nor advisable, there is a reason cable have ratings, or is this just a conspiracy by cable makers.

[nallac]

Assuming the cable is rated for such see above, it is not normal to have a 10 amp cable serving a 15 amp circuit, nor advisable, there is a reason cable have ratings, or is this just a conspiracy by cable makers.

yip thats true,the same with the wiring in cars and bikes, different rated cable/wire
for different loads.

[The Lone Rider]

Haven't filled with tiles yet, but fiddled with welder.

Replaced the fuse wire, gave another go with all else I could find turned off from that circuit at the wall (washing machine, dehumidifier, toothbrush, digital photo album).

Still got a few nice cracks. But still kept blowing fuses. Tried with various bits of metal, different rods, and different amp settings. Still no go. :(

[peasea]

Haven't filled with tiles yet, but fiddled with welder.

Replaced the fuse wire, gave another go with all else I could find turned off from that circuit at the wall (washing machine, dehumidifier, toothbrush, digital photo album).

Still got a few nice cracks. But still kept blowing fuses. Tried with various bits of metal, different rods, and different amp settings. Still no go. :(

I'd be talking to a sparkie before you blow something (or yourself) up. If there's a fault in the welder causing the blown fuses it could zap you and not just a fuse. Be careful man, some of those old arc welders can pack a punch, especially if they're damp.

[Ixion]

Haven't filled with tiles yet, but fiddled with welder.

Replaced the fuse wire, gave another go with all else I could find turned off from that circuit at the wall (washing machine, dehumidifier, toothbrush, digital photo album).

Still got a few nice cracks. But still kept blowing fuses. Tried with various bits of metal, different rods, and different amp settings. Still no go. :(

It'll be technique. Are you actually getting an arc? A sustained crackling blue light. If not, then you're "sticking" the rod to the work, which will blow fuses on a domestic circuit very fast.

Practice with a very small rod (16 gauge) on light workpiece, and the amps wound right down (check the rod manufacturers recommendation, and go about 20 amps higher- that will make a messy weld but be easier to strike. )

[The Lone Rider]

It'll be technique. Are you actually getting an arc? A sustained crackling blue light. If not, then you're "sticking" the rod to the work, which will blow fuses on a domestic circuit very fast.

Practice with a very small rod (16 gauge) on light workpiece, and the amps wound right down (check the rod manufacturers recommendation, and go about 20 amps higher- that will make a messy weld but be easier to strike. )

Suggestion to me by the guy who gave me it (my boss from work), when I first got it, was to set the choke to 100A and work my way down from that. He said rod would just melt and I'd find myself no longer making contact, and practice that and lower the choke in small increments until something seems stable.

I have tried 100A on the welder. Rod only seems to stick when fuse blows?

Worth trying the welder set higher than 100A maybe?

I don't actually have any training whatsoever. Simply said to my boss I was interested and thinking of pursuing welding and tattooing as a hobby... so he gave me his arc welder as he has a TIG welder.

[Ixion]

It will be the other way round - fuse blows when rod sticks.

Thing is that 100 amps is getting near the limit for a 10amp fuse. It'll work OK with an experienced welder, but any mistake will probably blow the fuse

If you practice with a light rod , which would normally run around 40 amps, set the choke to 50, that makes the arc a bit easier to strike (your weld will be shitty, but at this stage you don't really care about that), and you have a bit more tolerance on the fuse.

Try to sort of "scratch" the workpiece with the rod, like striking a match , and draw it away a little bit until you actually strike a nice sustained crackly arc.

It takes some practice to get the knack , its a bit like riding a bicycle. Once you get it, you'll wonder why it was so hard.

EDIT. You shouldn't actually have the rod contacting the work by the way, except to strike the arc. You need to hold the rod with a small gap so the arc jumps across it. (Having said that, years ago there used to be weird things called contact rods which you did hold on the work. They never worked well and I don't know if they are still around).

The choke setting depends on the thickness of rod you are using (other things too, but rod thickness is the main one)

[The Lone Rider]

Hmmm, already thought I had some freakin thin rods.

Last hope then.. will go buy the smallest I can find.

What effect does the rod size have? Bigger weld needed/thicker metal, the bigger guage the rod?

[Ixion]

Very very basically, bigger the bit of stuff you are welding, bigger the rod you use.

Biggest you'd likely be able to run would be 1/8" (dunno what that is in metrosquiggles); smallest commonly available is 1/16th inch, 16 gauge. The size is the diameter of the metal bit , excluding the outer flux coating.

16 gauge is normally a hard rod to use, cos you would only use it for welding thin section metal, but just to practice striking the arc, it will help stop the blowing fuse problem. Just use a piece of plate, maybe 1/4" thick , and try just putting a bit of metal on it.

Once you get the hang of striking the arc switch to maybe 1/8" on some 1/4" or so plate.

[cowpoos]

Hmmm, already thought I had some freakin thin rods.

Last hope then.. will go buy the smallest I can find.

What effect does the rod size have? Bigger weld needed/thicker metal, the bigger guage the rod?
got a plug on your main fuse box?? plug it in their...if it blows that fuse...call a sparky...he can do some test on the welder while he is their looking at your house power supply...if he's a goodin...

[CookMySock]

Duty cycle aside which is a valid point I am figuring you know more than the electrician who looked at the wiring in my garage and load I was drawing and nearly fainted, he explained garages in certain eras were often underrated in the cable used, in fact what was in mine was barely adequate for a 10 amp circuit yet was wired to 2 10 amp sockets in daisy chain so draw 10 off the first then 10 off the second and the first section of cable was over loaded, oh I know this was overloaded as the aforementioned "casual observation" happened, my fault I knew better but was in too much of a rush.Haha, you get tradespeople who talk like that.. "rant rant rant!! how the hell this house hasn't burned to the ground yet puzzles me!! Get your family outa here now!!!" I bet you felt like ripping the whole set of wiring out and replacing everything didn't ya.. well thats the idea.


Whats your hourly rate as you could be the person I need to do some wiring here, but then hmmm.I'm not registered, so legally I can't touch it. But PM me if you need help. Haha, dangerous ay. ;)



Assuming the cable is rated for such see above, it is not normal to have a 10 amp cable serving a 15 amp circuit, nor advisable, there is a reason cable have ratings, or is this just a conspiracy by cable makers.You can pull whatever current you like through a 10A cable. How hot do you want it to get? Will the motor it's powering still start under load? Will the welder sag under load so you can't use it? My mate runs his 17A espresso machines off long and cheap 10A warehouse extension leads.. You can still pick the lead up - its not that hot.. but who cares?

Ya rolls ya dice and ya pays ya money.

Steve

[dasser]

Hi Ya, Ixion has some good advice. If you find your stick welder needs repair, maybe look at buying a mig instead of repair. Their is a art to using a stick welder. The Mig I found the learning curve better. My dad had from the sounds of yours a similar welder but using it with a long extension mains cable also kept blowing fuses. ( it was a 30 m cable :wacko: ) Hey good luck. Before you know it you will find all sorts of things to weld up... ;)

[The Lone Rider]

Hi Ya, Ixion has some good advice. If you find your stick welder needs repair, maybe look at buying a mig instead of repair. Their is a art to using a stick welder. The Mig I found the learning curve better. My dad had from the sounds of yours a similar welder but using it with a long extension mains cable also kept blowing fuses. ( it was a 30 m cable :wacko: ) Hey good luck. Before you know it you will find all sorts of things to weld up... ;)

My dream down a few years road (much longer with a kid on the way now) is to get me an old piece of junk, cut the suspension and swing arm off and weld me a hard tail rat bike bobber.

Sex on wheels.

[The Lone Rider]

I have changed my 10A ceramic fuse thing to a 10A HPM circuit breaker.
Fired up the welder at 125A and seemed more steady. Still tripped circuit breaker.

Will try with lower amps and see how I go.

I am using Telwin 2.5mm rods, and top of welder has this:

Input:
Volts: 190/500
Nomina: 6KVA
Frequency: 50hz
Phase: 1
Rating: Cont Hand Welding

Output: 60
Amps: 55/180


Thanks again to people with good suggestions.

[CookMySock]

2.5mm is too big. Go a size down. Ask your boss if he has any smaller rods you can have.

If you want to get serious about this, you will have to get a larger capacity outlet installed in your shed. Theres no point trying to make anything with a crippled welder.

To give you an idea, the welder is rated at 6KVA whereas your 230V home wall socket is rated at 2KVA, so they are a world apart.

Steve

[Ixion]

Wot 'e said.

2.5mm you could probably run Ok with experience. But at this stage, you'll blow fuses. You need to use a lighter rod (about half the thickness ) so you can wind the amps down. Otherwise you'll stick the rod when it's cold, and at 125amp you don't have any tolerance before the fuse blows. Practice with 16 gauge (about 1.5mm )

[Blackshear]

You should start on Ally TIG welding.
After that, everything else is a breeze.

[The Lone Rider]

Managed to get one really good weld and an ok weld with it set to around 115A.
Still flickin the circuit breaker a lot.

Will try smaller rods.

Boss was fair sure that it should work fine as is, as the rods he's used are even slightly bigger than my 2.6mm and he ran it single phase in his garage same as I am doing (excluding the fact the wiring behind the walls may be different).

[CookMySock]

Still flickin the circuit breaker a lot.Um, you probably should stop doing that - circuit breakers are not designed to reset and then reset again... If you are unlucky the breaker will get hot and jam on.. Of course you will be stoked with this and everything will be fine for some hours.. and then the magic smoke gets let out of something indoors.. :hug:

Steve

[The Lone Rider]

It's not so bad now - I am now running those 2.6mm rods with the welder on less than 75A and only occassionally tripping the circuit breaker.

Point in fact - Jmnemonic I believe was correct in that it was technique. Not to say a lot of the other things haven't helped. Did a read up explaining how it works, how to arc and drag, and last weld I just tried I did a full weld in only two goes, fully filled, and not too bad looking. Makes me smile :)

One thing... I can weld things that are horizontal or right angles from each other but welding downwards.

But say something like two upright plates and wanting to weld along the middle, downwards. Any trick to doing that? Because most of the melted rod seems to splash downwards

[geoffm]

Your in trouble now - it is all downhill from here. You will be wanting a bigger welder soon, and MIG and TIG and...
Try the welder makers sites;
http://www.esabna.com/euweb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htm
http://www.hobartwelders.com/elearning/#stick
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/arcweldfund.asp

There are some Youtube guides as well. Welding overhead or vertical is harder than on the flat. See if you can get soemone to show you - it is easier.
Have you got some good gloves - you will need them. One is to stop hot stuff, the other is to stop bad sunburn from the arc and the resulting skin cancer...

[Ixion]

Sharrup. Sharrup. Sharrup. And don't even think about muttering about machine tools. I can't hear you.

[CookMySock]

It's not so bad now - I am now running those 2.6mm rods with the welder on less than 75A and only occassionally tripping the circuit breaker.You won't hurt the extension lead or the plugs (put your hand on them - mildly warm is ok, check pins slide in firmly) but you will eventually destroy that breaker and this can be dangerous. Either replace it with a 15A breaker or use a different socket.

Steve

[The Lone Rider]

Have excellent leather welding gloves.

Other issue.. the fumes! Anything special to wear over my nose/mouth? Or just keep garage door open and weld in small quantities?

[rickstv]

That welder is rated at 6kva. 6000 watts devided by 230v is 26 amps AC. I'm not surprised you're tripping a breaker. I doubt if any wiring in your house is rated for that capacity except the stove cable. And then the socket will only be rated 15 Amps anyway.
Rick.

[The Lone Rider]

My understanding is it can be switched over to 3 phase by opening the cover and changing some pin connections. The cover outlines pins and how to connect them for different voltage inputs.

As I said, my boss has had it for years and always running on single phase in his garage.

At this point I am becoming consistant in that I am getting an arc without sticking and then tripping circuit breaker. And I've been able to get the rods going good nearly around 55amps (the lowest it will go).

[rickstv]

Unless you "stick" the rod you're not likely to trip the breaker at 55Amps.
secondary volts 60 X 55 Amps =3300 Watts. 3300 Watts Devided by 230 Volts = 14.34 Amps AC.

Make sure the welder is actually wired for 230Volts.:wacko:

Dont go down the 3 phase road unless the house is already wired.

Instead, get the local sparky to fit a higher current carrying capacity socket in your garage with larger wiring and a 30 Amp breaker. This will be a dedicated outlet and nothing else except the welder will fit it.
Rick.

[JMemonic]

Once you get arcs striking etc, 100-140 amps for 3.2mm rods is the normal range, I might PM you once I get time and come and have a look something sounds odd.

For welding vertical you weld up hill not down, practice down hand to start with, I can recommend doing the basic course at tech if you have time and money, you will not regret it.

[gatch]

Once you get arcs striking etc, 100-140 amps for 3.2mm rods is the normal range, I might PM you once I get time and come and have a look something sounds odd.

For welding vertical you weld up hill not down, practice down hand to start with, I can recommend doing the basic course at tech if you have time and money, you will not regret it.

what he said..

he he if you want to have some fun with your arc, you can use soaking wet rods as a git-er-dun version of an air/arc machine..

[The Lone Rider]

I might PM you once I get time and come and have a look something sounds odd.

For welding vertical you weld up hill not down, practice down hand to start with,

Any help welcome!