Calling Paul Pav and Sandra Perry

[Maarty]

Hi Guys, Maarty van Booma writing.

A lot has been said over the past few days over a number of threads. It is my understanding that these threads are monitored by MNZ and rightly so but personally I would like to hear your side of the story. It is seeming to me that we are only getting one side.
While I have a huge ammount of respect for all the MNZ stewards, helpers, supporters etc, and have no reason to doubt what they are saying to me off-thread I would still like to hear your side and just as importantly, what you stand for within the organisation.
Over the past 27 years that I have been a member I have had reason to have personal dealing with both of you and have no complaints arising from those dealing, it is concerning me however that you are not taking a proactive approach to this debate.
I can understand that you are probably feeling some heat but have your say!
This is a public forum sure and I dont expect you to get involved with the niggle but for the sakes of people like myself please let us know where you stand.

Also, to anyone else reading this thread, please don't come in all guns blazing! Paul and Sandra have a right to have their say and their opinions, they are also human too! they have feelings too! so before you hi-jack this thread, just have a little thought for how they are feeling! Emotive badgering isn't going to help anyone so, if Paul and/or Sandra reply, then show them some respect, ask pertinant questions, don't let your emotions control your typing finger. Just stick to the questions, the facts and not the personalities. Please!

Hope to hear from you guys soon.

Regards

Maarty

It has been suggested, and I agree, that anyone wishing to contribute to this thread should sign off with their name and licence number. At least then we are all aware of who is saying what.
I would also ask that the moderators please remove any post that don't contain such information. After all, transperancy is what we are after isn't it!

[White trash]

Maarty, I applaud your diplomacy and forethought.

I do not think a public forum is the correct media for those that hold the seats to answer their critics. With the exception of yourself, Shaun, Scrivy and Robert Taylor, every single person making a fuss on this forum is largely anonymous. Personally, if I don't know who's putting foprward the queries, I wouldn't consider a response.

Just my $0.02

[Maarty]

Maarty, I applaud your diplomacy and forethought.

I do not think a public forum is the correct media for those that hold the seats to answer their critics. With the exception of yourself, Shaun, Scrivy and Robert Taylor, every single person making a fuss on this forum is largely anonymous. Personally, if I don't know who's putting foprward the queries, I wouldn't consider a response.

Just my $0.02

Thanks Jimmy,

I agree with you but....

Thing is, we are all being pretty unfair really, Paul and Sandra have right to be heard, OK, probably the wrong place, but things are now at critical mass really. Just would like to hear their side.
It wont change the fact that I have a huge ammount of respect and admiration for what Paul S, Jim T, Jim D, Ian, Neil, Budda and all the other crew has done.

Ultimately, it is about being fair to all and Paul and Sandra deserve the chance to be heard.

Maarty

[cowpoos]

show them some respect, ask pertinant questions, don't let your emotions control your typing finger. Just stick to the questions,

And maybe...people asking these questions should quote their MNZ license number...and full name. or if a backer of MNZ in anyway sponser,media,etc [obviously some vested interest]...would like to leave their name and affiliation?

Just a thought. and possibly more than fair.

[sidecar bob]

Maarty, I applaud your diplomacy and forethought.

I do not think a public forum is the correct media for those that hold the seats to answer their critics. With the exception of yourself, Shaun, Scrivy and Robert Taylor, every single person making a fuss on this forum is largely anonymous. Personally, if I don't know who's putting foprward the queries, I wouldn't consider a response.

Just my $0.02

Ok, I assumed that people kinda knew who i was, but for the sake of that, i am Steve Bryan, & i passenger Scrivys sidecars (well i actually own one of them) & my MNZ number is 16812.

[Clivoris]

Potentially awkward for them but this is an increasingly used forum for discussing issues. I hope they take it up Maarty.
Clive Banks. Haven't got my MNZ # handy.

[cowpoos]

Haven't got my MNZ # handy.

*ditto*

Ryan Withers

[suzuki mama]

Maarty,
i think this is one of your better ideas, what an excellent opportunity for every one to have both Pav and Sandra come on and answer ,constructive , relevant and objective questions,

I cant see why they should feel threatened in any way in being open and honest in dealing with their members , and remember we do have associate members now who might like to be involved
in fact another web site holeshot has already issued an invitation to all candidates and some really good questions and answers have been placed on it.From the brief look i have had off it most people have identified themselves when asking questions and so far Todd .Carmen and Jim have all responded

It would be an excellent opportunity to cover many areas where communication has not been the best it could be and the voters could certainly gauge in the 16 days left to us , what has been acheived since the last AGM ,Of course if as per the constitution information about all the candidates had gone out with the voting packs we might all be a little clearer than now ,

White Trash , lovely descriptive name, great idea think it will work in future but again we only have 16 days ,mnz has had years to listen to the members and we are not exactly making great strides here,

your comments bought to mind a survey that was done some time ago to gauge areas mnz was failing in and seek ways to improve,
it seems to have disappeared ,can anyone and this is a serious question from me tell me what happened to it ,what recommendations were taken up ?


The problem i have is at times we rush off with the best intentions and have lots of talk but nothing actually appears to change .
It would be a supreme optimist to say all in MNZS garden is rosy ,but some great things have been acheived in Road Racing.


The last point i would make is yes i am posting this under a nom de plume and why because when something is unfair , or mnz acts outside its constitution i have in the past taken officials to task in what i felt was a polite and courteous manner and have been stunned with the vitriol i receive in ,return ,you may not accept it but there is a definite modus operandi reserved for those who question

That said i would defend to the death the right of Sandra and Paul to have their say and look forward if they do come on here to them answering all questions

[FROSTY]

Maarty, I applaud your diplomacy and forethought.

I do not think a public forum is the correct media for those that hold the seats to answer their critics. With the exception of yourself, Shaun, Scrivy and Robert Taylor, every single person making a fuss on this forum is largely anonymous. Personally, if I don't know who's putting foprward the queries, I wouldn't consider a response.

Just my $0.02
Actually mate sorry but um I'm another not hiding in any way from the "powers that be"
My name is as they say my name. Nothing hidden

[sidecar bob]

Awesome!!!! That went well then!!!!

[The Stranger]

With the exception of yourself, Shaun, Scrivy and Robert Taylor, every single person making a fuss on this forum is largely anonymous. Personally, if I don't know who's putting foprward the queries, I wouldn't consider a response.

Just my $0.02

With all due respect Mr White Trash -and that is a lot sir.
Does anyone really think anyone is hiding here?
Of all the MNZ discussion is anyone really being mischievous?

I really have to question what the hell anonymity has to do with it.
Is a question valid? If so, it should be answered.
Is a criticism valid? If so it should be addressed.
Is a suggestion valid? if so it should be considered.

It matters little who asks it or suggests something - unless it is a personal attack. If it really does matter one can ask.

As I have noted previously there are some very good reasons for anonymity in many circumstances and as noted by biggles08 most surveys are conducted with anonymity as an important part of obtaining an honest feedback.

Don't get bogged down on who is who. The site existed long before these debates, the anonymity is not deliberate it is incidental.

[FROSTY]

As I have noted previously there are some very good reasons for anonymity in many circumstances and as noted by biggles08 most surveys are conducted with anonymity as an important part of obtaining an honest feedback.

Actually Stranger your point though definitely valid does raise a question
Why would a person with valid issue with a bike club or organisation feel they need to remain anonymous?
I genuinely believe this is the root question

[sidecar bob]

Actually Stranger your point though definitely valid does raise a question
Why would a person with valid issue with a bike club or organisation feel they need to remain anonymous?
I genuinely believe this is the root question

Its not the anonymity i struggle with, its the fact that every offical from MNZ has read these threads & been invited to respond on numerous occasions, yet not one has fronted. I truly dont know what to make of that. Im sure that an open Q&A would go a long way to solving many issues that have arisen.
I also struggle with the Taupo Road Race Spectacular being described as a glorified club race & the commentator at Paeroa being threatened over comments he made, and the official photographer at the BADD endurance race being bullied by MNZ officials i hold in high regard.

[Maarty]

Look folks,
I stated thisthread only with the hope that perhaps Paul or Sandra would pop on and have their say, thats all.
Paul is defianetly aware of this thread as I emailed him last night with a direct link.
If he chooses not to reply then that is his right to do so, disappointing but his right and I will respect that. Pauls brother has been on another thread and defended his brother, good for him, it was a reasoned and articulate reply to various comments passed accross these pages.
As for the anonymity issue, it isn't about 'exposing" anyone, it is about being fair! I know that I don't like someone talking behind my back, I would much sooner have them stand in front of me a say their piece, however harsh it maybe. at least then I would know where I stood rather that hear through the grapevine that ??? has said !!!! about me. I am a big boy and so is Paul and Sandra is a big girl ( no disrespect intended there Sandra).
The bottom line is, if you don't want to have a say (via this thread, to Paul and Sandra) to their faces then please frequent another thread. I would just as soon as know who is interested in hearing Paul and Sandra storys and know that these people care enough to be upfront. At least then they will know who cares what they have to say.

Maarty van Booma

[White trash]

Look folks,
I stated thisthread only with the hope that perhaps Paul or Sandra would pop on and have their say, thats all.
Paul is defianetly aware of this thread as I emailed him last night with a direct link.
If he chooses not to reply then that is his right to do so, disappointing but his right and I will respect that. Pauls brother has been on another thread and defended his brother, good for him, it was a reasoned and articulate reply to various comments passed accross these pages.
As for the anonymity issue, it isn't about 'exposing" anyone, it is about being fair! I know that I don't like someone talking behind my back, I would much sooner have them stand in front of me a say their piece, however harsh it maybe. at least then I would know where I stood rather that hear through the grapevine that ??? has said !!!! about me. I am a big boy and so is Paul and Sandra is a big girl ( no disrespect intended there Sandra).
The bottom line is, if you don't want to have a say (via this thread, to Paul and Sandra) to their faces then please frequent another thread. I would just as soon as know who is interested in hearing Paul and Sandra storys and know that these people care enough to be upfront. At least then they will know who cares what they have to say.

Maarty van Booma
I think it best to apologize to you Maarty. I called you a "midget" behind your back last year. Wont happen again.

In seriousness though, given the sheer amount of comments they have to wade through, and the time it would take to formulate a response to each post, at the same time defending themselves from the thorough lynching only KB can deliver, I wouldn't expect to see a reply too soon. They are, after all, busy people.

That being said, I have forwarded a couple of my concerns to PPs attention today in the hope he will see fit to respond in a timely manner. That I DO expect as that is his job.

Jimmy Mair

[Maarty]

I think it best to apologize to you Maarty. I called you a "midget" behind your back last year. Wont happen again.

In seriousness though, given the sheer amount of comments they have to wade through, and the time it would take to formulate a response to each post, at the same time defending themselves from the thorough lynching only KB can deliver, I wouldn't expect to see a reply too soon. They are, after all, busy people.

That being said, I have forwarded a couple of my concerns to PPs attention today in the hope he will see fit to respond in a timely manner. That I DO expect as that is his job.

Jimmy Mair

SOOOOOO! that was you ha!
I am just vertically slim really.

I too expect to geat a reply from Paul at some point and I am sure they are busy. He has ALWAYS replied to my emails in the past. I just hope he comes on for a chat!

M

[The Stranger]

Actually Stranger your point though definitely valid does raise a question
Why would a person with valid issue with a bike club or organisation feel they need to remain anonymous?
I genuinely believe this is the root question

I disagree. The content and intent is far more important than the person. To dismiss a sound rational idea simply because you don't know who voiced it would seem to me to be petty.

However, need - as it relates to the bike club. Very little.
-Some may fear reprisal in one form or another.
-Some don't have the stomach for a fight or can't be bothered with it.
Does this make their ideas any less valid?

However, because of the forum in which the discussion is being held it may well be desirous to maintain some anonymity.

For example
-we are both aware of at least 2 people whom have had insurance claims denied because of postings on KB, one case had very serious repercussions. The other on the face of it was just as a result of someone else shit stirring.

Personally I can think of many reasons, however I won't bore you, it's not my fight, I'm not a member, just a casual observer seeing what would appear to be a storm in a teacup (the anonymity issue that is).

[suzuki mama]

Its not the anonymity i struggle with, its the fact that every offical from MNZ has read these threads & been invited to respond on numerous occasions, yet not one has fronted. I truly dont know what to make of that. Im sure that an open Q&A would go a long way to solving many issues that have arisen.
I also struggle with the Taupo Road Race Spectacular being described as a glorified club race & the commentator at Paeroa being threatened over comments he made, by an MNZ official i hold in reasonably high regard.

Sidecar Bob
As some one who on several occaisons heard said commentator on the nations radio network , take potshots at the Road race commission because he wasnt on it , and tell the nation and every one else he could via letters how much better a job he would make of things im just surprised no one thought of it before Paeroa, given that the same commentator lost his position as National Road race commentator for bagging the series sponser its not surprising sanity has prevailed and another much more professional commentator has i understand been approached ,

However certain people within mnz have used a very select version of what went on and some very scurrilous rumours were set in place ,
I to am disappointed we have yet to see Either Sandra or Paul make themselves available to answer questions.
My first one would be,how does each one of them feel they would be best able to restore confidence to the members ,followed by
What % of the Sparc money our sport receives is spent on salaries and how do we plan to increase sponsership of actual cash not contra deals

[sidecar bob]

Sidecar Bob
As some one who on several occaisons heard said commentator on the nations radio network , take potshots at the Road race commission because he wasnt on it , and tell the nation and every one else he could via letters how much better a job he would make of things im just surprised no one thought of it before Paeroa, given that the same commentator lost his position as National Road race commentator for bagging the series sponser its not surprising sanity has prevailed and another much more professional commentator has i understand been approached ,

However certain people within mnz have used a very select version of what went on and some very scurrilous rumours were set in place ,
I to am disappointed we have yet to see Either Sandra or Paul make themselves available to answer questions.
My first one would be,how does each one of them feel they would be best able to restore confidence to the members ,followed by
What % of the Sparc money our sport receives is spent on salaries and how do we plan to increase sponsership of actual cash not contra deals

And that is the very reason that "the other side" need a representative on here. To separate the chaff from the wheat.
I thought i had a reliable source, obviously not.

[FROSTY]

However, need - as it relates to the bike club. Very little.
-Some may fear reprisal in one form or another.
-Some don't have the stomach for a fight or can't be bothered with it.
Does this make their ideas any less valid?
Validity of ideas actually I wasn't placing that under scrutiny.
The question I'm asking is why do people FEEL (please note this is emphasis on their feeling/opinion not nessasarily reality) that they would be ignored, riduculed or given a hard time if they pressed their ideas unmasked so to speak.
Have the lines of communication actually broken down ?
If so from what end?--a phone can be hung up from either end after all.

[sidecar bob]

Validity of ideas actually I wasn't placing that under scrutiny.
The question I'm asking is why do people FEEL (please note this is emphasis on their feeling/opinion not nessasarily reality) that they would be ignored, riduculed or given a hard time if they pressed their ideas unmasked so to speak.
Have the lines of communication actually broken down ?
If so from what end?--a phone can be hung up from either end after all.

This thread alone, amply demonstrates the breakdown in communication between MNZ & competitors, a fact that greatly saddens me.
Its all very well for the C.E.O's brother to describe his brother's financial & physical dedication to motorcycling over a number of years in another thread, & while the level of success varys widely between competitors, the level of committment has been & is still similar for a number of us, so i feel equally strongly about the situation.
I would like nothing more than for the C.E.O (whom i am familiar with) Jimmy T, etc etc to come on here & make friends with the competitors & break this wall of silence that has crept in.
Honestly, at the moment it reminds me of the feeling that crept in towards the end of my marriage.
Please Guys, can we get some communication going??

[scrivy]

Honestly, at the moment it reminds me of the feeling that crept in towards the end of my marriage.


WTF!!!!?????
They got 'bits' on the side too bro???

[sidecar bob]

WTF!!!!?????
They got 'bits' on the side too bro???

Ow shuddup bro.;)

[Maarty]

I think it best to apologize to you Maarty. I called you a "midget" behind your back last year. Wont happen again.

In seriousness though, given the sheer amount of comments they have to wade through, and the time it would take to formulate a response to each post, at the same time defending themselves from the thorough lynching only KB can deliver, I wouldn't expect to see a reply too soon. They are, after all, busy people.

That being said, I have forwarded a couple of my concerns to PPs attention today in the hope he will see fit to respond in a timely manner. That I DO expect as that is his job.

Jimmy Mair

Jimmy, like you, I too contacted Paul directly and he rang me today! I was upfront about what I wanted to know and Paul was upfront (as he could be without letting me in on sensitive stuff) and forthright with his replys.
While the replys I received may or may not have completely satisfied my curiosity they have given me a broader picture of the event as from Pauls prospective. Paul explained to me his reasons for his not replying to these forum threads and I appreciate his reasoning. Without being spicific, and also without Paul being spicific, he explained a few things to me that I did not know.
Now, how I process this information and how it will effect my voting is something that I will keep to myself, but, Paul did contact me, he did anwser my questions and he was polite, he listened to my concerns, he shared his views openly and without influience or pressure and he was accomodating and open to my views.
Wether it was as a result of the pressure from these forums or not I don't know and care even less.
He did say he had also received your mail too!
All I have to say now is "good on you Paul!"
Maybe if everyone actually contacted Pav directly, and without malise or attitude, then there would be less agro from posters.

Finally, if you do contact Pav directly, do so by stating your name first!!!!

Maarty

[cowpoos]

Jimmy T, etc etc to come on here & make friends with the competitors

He's already on here... BJT666 I think is his user name??