Hey Look, Nice!

[James Deuce]

Shame they couldn't have talked to the local press.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/motoring/2368879/Auto-macho

Nicely written story though.

[Big Dave]

I really like a TV show called 'Around the horn' - a game of competitive sports banter.

In it you get points for saying stuff first. :-P

[Reido]

they are making out that using a clutch and gear leaver is hard?
i'd get bored if i didnt have to change gear. its all part of the experience.
if i wanted an auto i'd but a scooter or drive a cage.

[yod]

If you aren't in possession of the requisite dexterity to manage a hand clutch and foot lever then are you really suited to controlling a large capacity motorcycle?

[Headbanger]

lets riders do away with hand-squeezing a clutch and foot-shifting through gears when they're also trying to stay balanced, navigate traffic and co-ordinate accelerating and braking.

WTF?

If you have to "try and stay balanced" and can't coordinate the basic tasks of riding you need to get the hell off the road and into a paddock for some practise.

[James Deuce]

It's a reasonably big deal in the US because the majority of the passenger vehicle fleet is auto. Honda are hoping to tap into a market they may have shied away from bikes because of the "old fashioned" manual gearbox.

More interesting (to me anyway) was the Mana making up 15% of Aprilia's sales figures. That's a pretty clear message I reckon.

[Headbanger]

I can see the attraction of an auto for commuting, But still think if you can't actually ride you should learn.....

[tigertim20]

Im sure for some people an auto bike is very practical. But I dont want a practical bike. I want to get wet riding in the rain, have to stop twice as often as a car for gas, and twice as often again to regain the feeling in my ass, I want to go without a radio and a heater, and I want a manual gearbox!!! I love my bike just the way it is. Id never buy one, but hell, if its gonna make sales like those indicated in the article, well, who can blame them eh?

[The Pastor]

it'd be perfect for long distance motorway riding

[peasea]

Im sure for some people an auto bike is very practical. But I dont want a practical bike. I want to get wet riding in the rain, have to stop twice as often as a car for gas, and twice as often again to regain the feeling in my ass, I want to go without a radio and a heater, and I want a manual gearbox!!! I love my bike just the way it is. Id never buy one, but hell, if its gonna make sales like those indicated in the article, well, who can blame them eh?

Why does your ass lose its feeling and why on earth would you take a donkey-like creature out on your bike?

[Big Dave]

Eeee-awways says that.

[Mully]

Why does your ass lose its feeling

Have you seen the pillion accomodation on a CBR600? Enough to make even a sheep loose feeling, let alone a donkey.


and why on earth would you take a donkey-like creature out on your bike?

No heater. The donkey keeps him warm.

[peasea]

Have you seen the pillion accomodation on a CBR600? Enough to make even a sheep loose feeling, let alone a donkey.



No heater. The donkey keeps him warm.

I read posts about Honda riders..........

[Mully]

I read posts about Honda riders..........

Over the years, his ass has taken a pounding.

[ManDownUnder]

I read posts about Honda riders..........

c'mere big boy...

[PrincessBandit]

The DN01 is certainly nice to sit on (haven't ridden one) but Balu has always chosen to stick with the Burgman over the DN for 2 main reasons - price and the huge amount of storage space under the seat of the Burger. He loves the automatic, especially in variable speed traffic, but is also happy riding my bandit. In't he cwever, he can do bowf!
Would still be tempted to take one for a spin sometime.....(not literally I hope)

[Bend-it]

Why does your ass lose its feeling and why on earth would you take a donkey-like creature out on your bike?


Over the years, his ass has taken a pounding.

Bring back that lovin' feeling
Wo-oh that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling
'coz it's gone, gone, gone Wo-wo-oh...

[peasea]

Bring back that lovin' feeling
Wo-oh that lovin' feeling
Bring back that lovin' feeling
'coz it's gone, gone, gone Wo-wo-oh...

Even as script I can tell you shouldn't give up your day job.

Anyway, it would appear that the 'lovin' feeling' hasn't gone anywhere.

(You're also showing your age.....)

[wbks]

So what happens if its pissing down with rain(or maybe even dry), you're going through the apex at some lean and it shifts up a gear? One would think that could put you on your ass pretty fast.

[The Pastor]

The DN01 is certainly nice to sit on (haven't ridden one) but Balu has always chosen to stick with the Burgman over the DN for 2 main reasons - price and the huge amount of storage space under the seat of the Burger. He loves the automatic, especially in variable speed traffic, but is also happy riding my bandit. In't he cwever, he can do bowf!
Would still be tempted to take one for a spin sometime.....(not literally I hope)
hitcher just died.

[Big Dave]

hitcher just died.

The Rider on the Apostrophclipse. Reports of his demise are greatly exasperated.

[Mully]

One would think that could put you on your ass pretty fast.

All these donkeys......

[roadracingoldfart]

Back in the early 80s i rode the Honda 750 auto .
It was a very unusual feeling but im sure transmissions have been developed a bit better since then.

[Ocean1]

Back in the early 80s i rode the Honda 750 auto .
It was a very unusual feeling but im sure transmissions have been developed a bit better since then.

The Honda City autos were the first production car made where the auto was faster than the manual. The technology's not only mature it's directly transferable to bikes, a market well behind cars across the board in terms of technical sophistocation.

[roadracingoldfart]

The Honda City autos were the first production car made where the auto was faster than the manual. The technology's not only mature it's directly transferable to bikes, a market well behind cars across the board in terms of technical sophistocation.


I agree, I am a foreman for a Ford & Mazda dealer and i was in Auck last Fri to attend a tech training course on the new Mazda 3 . It has a sequential trans with flappy paddles and when in Drive you can use the downshift to slow , stabalise you into a corner and the trans will automatically upshift to the previopus gear only after the corner has been completed and is a totally adaptive shift pattern. It works in harmony with the ABS and Traction control and will not stuff you up , even if you accidently move the trans to sequential it wont alter the started gear dedication sequence.
I was impressed greatly with it, and the whole car.

There are so many things a bike could benifit from thats common in a car but why they dont implement them over i will never be able to fathom.

Paul.

[Ocean1]

It has a sequential trans with flappy paddles and when in Drive you can use the downshift to slow , stabalise you into a corner and the trans will automatically upshift to the previopus gear only after the corner has been completed and is a totally adaptive shift pattern. It works in harmony with the ABS and Traction control and will not stuff you up , even if you accidently move the trans to sequential it wont alter the started gear dedication sequence.


Paul.

Interesting.

One of the things about choosing when to shift yourself is that it becomes a useful control input, even minor surface defects can mean you want to shift a tad early or late. Exact shift timing can be critical on two wheels, particularly exiting a corner, and even a very smart auto can't choose that point as well as you.

The auto BRP Spyder is an actuated manual, (as opposed to a normal "automotive" auto), shifts slicker 'n snot on a griddle. You can switch between a manual one-touch shift and a semi-auto, (auto down, complete with throttle blip, and manual up). The semi auto would be useful around town but I found most places I preferred to shift "manually".

[MarkH]

I ride an auto scooter and I really like the transmission, it works really well and makes commuting much easier. However, my car is a manual - I just don't like automatic transmissions in cars. The whole torque converter and shifting between 3 or 4 ratios is pretty crappy (some of the newer auto trans are much better of course). But on the Burgy the transmission does not use a torque converter and it does not change between 3 or 4 ratios - it is a continuously variable transmission which is in my opinion a fantastic concept (there have been a few cars with CVT too).

At the moment my finances are totally shit, so I am hunting for a part time job (or two) to increase my income. I want to buy a bike to use on the weekends and just use my 400cc scooter during the week. The bikes I am considering are the standard manual transmission type - no way I would consider the DN-01 with its crazy price tag! I have no qualms about going with a manual transmission - concentrating on other stuff and operating the clutch/shifter at the same time is not hard, the more you do it the less you need to think about doing it.

[Badjelly]

I ride an auto scooter and I really like the transmission, it works really well and makes commuting much easier. However, my car is a manual - I just don't like automatic transmissions in cars. The whole torque converter and shifting between 3 or 4 ratios is pretty crappy (some of the newer auto trans are much better of course). But on the Burgy the transmission does not use a torque converter and it does not change between 3 or 4 ratios - it is a continuously variable transmission which is in my opinion a fantastic concept (there have been a few cars with CVT too).

Interesting. Thanks for that. I don't like auto transmissions in cars: too much vagueness between what I tell it to do and what it does. I've wondered about the CVT systems on scooters.

So answer me this then: why don't more cars use CVTs? Is it just that they don't scale up to higher power outputs?

Another thought: I believe bike/scooter CVT systems use a centrifugal clutch to disengage/engage the motor at low revs. There's one of those on my quad bike, and I don't like it all that much either (too much vagueness between what I tell it to do and what it does again). How well do they work when combined with a CVT?

[Big Dave]

This was the 1st draft of my KR bit.


The confusing vehicle.

The technical information that came with the Honda DN-01 was far more comprehensive than anything I’ve ever picked up with a bike before.

The Team at Blue Wing handed me a pack that contained around forty (40!) pages of schematic diagrams and exploded views of the machine.

Spok Voice: ‘They are simply fascinating, Captain.’

I didn’t appreciate them fully until I’d been living with the bike for a week.

Note that I called it a bike, and not without due consideration.

I didn’t have any issues with it, rather that defining exactly what this vehicle actually ‘is’ becomes subject to some debate, because this is quite a unique machine.

Honda proclaims quite prominently in the preface to those forty attached pages that ‘The DN-01 is most certainly a motorcycle’.

With a 680cc, liquid cooled 4-stroke engine with 8 valves, SOHC, 52 degree V-Twin, running a compression ratio of 10:1 and knocking out 45kw @ 7,500rpm and 64Nm @ 6,000 rpm it has ‘mid-power motorcycle’ numbers. (For comparison a Bonneville has 50kw and 69nm). It’s the same unit that lives in the Transalp and the Deauville Hondas.

The Front 130/70 ZR17 and rear 190/50 ZR17 tyres (Yeah – 190 section) are cruiser-motorcycle-like. As are the combined high performance anti-lock brakes with twin 296mm 6 pots up front and 276mm 4 pot at rear. Leaning on the rear pedal also brings some of the front brakes into play.

The double cradle steel tube frame the bike employs under the motorcycle size bodywork is also quite conventional.

Complemented by a 1650mm wheelbase and 28 degree steering angle, it all adds up to give the DN-01 the road manners of a sweet handling road bike. I found myself enjoying cornering and employing the better-than-a-cruiser ground clearance.

The ergonomics, seat comfort and riding position are all as good as the most comfortable of cruisers and are very relaxed.

The single sided swingarm and really wonderful shaft drive unit are big-motorcycle grade and the performance of the pro-link mono shock rear and 41mm front forks are also up to nice-bike par.

The more bikes I ride, the less stock I put in the importance of overall weight of a road bike. More important is the centre of gravity. If you are newbie to riding and prone to rookie mistakes like parking downhill you might notice it, but I was surprised to look at the spec sheet and discover a slightly porky 269kg. I only found it light and easy.

And that is where all this ‘motorcycle comparison’ leads to.

Easy.

The Ed’s first utterances after his initial ride out to our photo shoot was ‘this is the easiest bike to ride that I have ever ridden.’ I was greatly relieved to hear it because that was exactly what I had been spruiking to all and sundry who questioned nature of the bike.

It is remarkably, ‘scooterishly’ easy to ride and it achieves this in several ways.

Firstly there is all that bona fide motorcycle running gear that can handle surface inconsistencies, potholes and bumps like no 14” wheeled scoot can.

Then there are the ergonomics and ride feel that the crazily swept-back handlebars and cruiser style seating position give the rider. Supremely relaxed and really ‘big Scooter’ easy.

Then there is the gearbox. I’m prepared to call the DN-01 a landmark vehicle – simply because of the gearbox. A good number of the 40 techno pages are about it.

How history judges it remains to be seen, but along my motorcycle journey I’ll mark it as the first viable automatic motorcycle I’ve ridden.

What a unit. No clutch, no foot operated gear selector, and with a selection of three modes and six gears ‘triptronic’ at the push of a few buttons.

What tended to marginalise the riders I spoke to about the machine was the styling and the ‘why do I need an automatic – changing gears is integral to my motorcycling experience’ factor.

Typically, the styling is Scooter like in some ways and uniquely DN-01 in others. There is a scooter style integration to the passenger accommodations (that the co-pilot rated as ‘good’) but the view from the cockpit had me thinking surf ski.

The long, low slung bodywork evoked sharks and ‘Aliens’ I quite enjoyed the looks and the double takes it inspired. It’s got some neat – and some totally unique – lines.

But it really is about that gearbox. The HFT. Human Friendly Transmission.

OK. Divorce yourself from the notion of a sports motorcycle and concentrate on economical, reliable, urban transportation.

Both the Ed and I missed turnoffs on route because we were so relaxed and chillin’ riding the thing.

Naturally we remained ever vigilant to the dangers that two wheel transport entails, but the DN-01 is so effortless you kind of forget about having to ride it. It really is genuine twist and go effortless transportation in a new system.

Honda says that ‘The HFT is an infinitely variable automatic transmission device that transmits the drive power and shifts the transmission by converting the engine power into hydraulic pressure.

In addition to the Automatic transmission function the HFT also operates the Starting clutch, Lockup mechanism and the Neutral Drive Clutch.

The starting clutch engages when turning the bike over, the lockup mechanism proves ‘better drive’ from the transmission and the Neutral/drive clutch is engaged by the rider when stationary.

There are three buttons to control the gearbox. The N-D switch on the right hand switch block puts the bike in neutral or drive modes. Engage neutral at traffic light or when stopped for longer periods.

Then via a switch on the left hand switchblock either Economy or Sports modes of variable ratio automatic are selectable.

Further to that, a trigger on the right had turns the whole affair into a push button 6 speed tripronic for out and out sports riding. At which the DN-01 also makes a pretty good show.

Pulling away from the traffic lights has a certain Scooterish feel – no matter what mode is selected, it winds up, until you look in the mirrors and see how far the cars behind the cars are in your mirrors are. Then glance down at the futuristic dash board nestled inside the bodywork. S***! 85!

All the ease of a scooter and the performance of a mid power motorcycle.

It makes running around town a breeze. I used it for the day to day chores of my graphics business around Auckland and loved it. Just so easy.

I’d like to see some sort of carrying capacity built in, a top box or other option would be good. As standard there is space for a cable lock under the seat and that’s all.

But getting back to easy transport and it’s simply outstanding.

The motorcycle running gear means that it’s quite comfortable at open road touring speeds and carving up the freeways. It’s very stable and with tidy road manners and the ability to carry pace that surprised me.

It will make a great ‘graduation’ bike, is marvellous urban transport, has unique and individual styling and offers a glimpse of the future of 2 wheeled automatics.

Confusing and exceptionally nifty – all at the same time.

[MarkH]

Another thought: I believe bike/scooter CVT systems use a centrifugal clutch to disengage/engage the motor at low revs. There's one of those on my quad bike, and I don't like it all that much either (too much vagueness between what I tell it to do and what it does again). How well do they work when combined with a CVT?

A scooter on the road is different to a quad bike in that you don't really spend much time with the clutch partially engaged. When you are at the lights the engine is idling and the clutch is fully disengaged - no different to being on a normal bike in neutral. When you are riding along the clutch is fully engaged and you just use the throttle and brake to change speed, but no clutch and gearshift required. It seems to me that it does what I tell it to, mind you I had a 20 absence from riding before buying my Burgy 400, so normal clutch & gears are a bit of a distant memory.

[James Deuce]

I don't like CVT boxes in cars. The intent is good, but unless the vehicle is really torquey or really powerful, both of which don't do much for longevity of a CVT transmission, you just end up driving around in a really noisy, really thirsty car.

I don't like big cars or vans so we looked at mini-MPVs and narrowed it down to a Nissan Tino or a Megane Scenic. The Renault (despite the fact we knew random stuff would break) won because you can actually converse while travelling. The Tino just roared it's head off all the time and all you can think is, "clutch is stuffed, clutch is stuffed, clutch is stuffed, clutch is stuffed."

Bear in mind that you can only have an internal monologue while riding in the Nissan, due to the fact that engine is always between 4500rpm and 6500rpm, and you can see why irrational behaviours and thought patterns take over.

[pete376403]

They (Honda) have done this before - last time in 1961 - was a biggish scooter called the Juno M88 and introduced the swash plate hydraulic transmission. It had a flat twin engine rather than a Vee, and a bit smaller at 170cc.. If was not a major success.

[Badjelly]

I don't like CVT boxes in cars. The intent is good, but unless the vehicle is really torquey or really powerful, both of which don't do much for longevity of a CVT transmission, you just end up driving around in a really noisy, really thirsty car...

So they rev too high? Then why are the scooterers so happy with their CVTs?

[James Deuce]

So they rev too high? Then why are the scooterers so happy with their CVTs?

Dunno. Remember it's merely my opinion.

[MarkH]

So they rev too high? Then why are the scooterers so happy with their CVTs?

Some vehicles with CVT even allow the operator to change ratios manually. e.g. The Burgman 650 has a manual control that allows the selection between 6 pre-defined ratios, this allows the rider to put it into 'overdrive' for steady cruising at lower RPMs. My Burgman 400 doesn't have this option, but of course I am not trying to converse with a passenger while riding.