Configuring a wireless network. Gahh! Thud.

[Hitcher]

Last week, thanks to a power surge or some other mystery ailment, my D-Link wireless router shat itself. I went out and bought a new one, as you do.

The nice man in the shop recommended a D-Link Wireless N Router, model DIR-615, which is what I went home with.

"Run the CD before doing anything else!" warning labels screamed.

Roger that.

Step-by-step followed. Internet connection made on desktop. All systems go.

Turn on laptop.

"Wireless networks found, Master!"

I locate one with the same as the SSID I created a few minutes earlier.

But can I connect to it? No way, Jose!

The install wizard had the option "most secure WPA" which I thought was a good idea. But there is no option of a similar moniker displayed amongst the laptop's various options.

I chose the default randomly generated access code that the install wizard created. It's 10 characters long. Some options on the laptop's menu only want 5, some want exactly 13.

D-Link's call centre is open during business hours, which is an extremely useful service when the three necessary components (me, my home desktop and laptop) are not in a contiguous space at those times.

I suspect I am missing something glaringly obvious here, and would appreciate considered assistance from learned persons who know what the fuck they're talking about.

Many thanks in advance, etc.

[cowboyz]

first step is getting the whole thing working with with an open network.

Log on to the router (which happens to be what I am using and it is a good unit) and disable all encryption. Then once you can get it connecting then you can add a key.

I have found on 1 laptop I was using it just couldnt resolve the key. Delete the key and it worked. Add WPA and it stuffed out. WEP was no good.

[Fooman]

It is possibly WPA2 on the router and WPA on the laptop. If so, and if the laptop is running XP SP2, then there is a microsoft patch (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/893357) that may be required, otherwise check the laptop's wireless doodad for compatability with WPA/WPA2. Try setting the router to plain WPA.

Cheers,
FM

[James Deuce]

I'll be around tomorrow if you want help.

[sil3nt]

Wireless networks are crap! My dads laptop loses connection all the time although lifting it up above the couch allows it too connect again. And moving it two metres into another room makes the signal go from low to strong.

I don't know why only half the house has CAT5 running through it as spending a day wiring the other half would save a lot of headaches for us!

[Gremlin]

As said, first set it all up without security, then add it on later.

Please ignore the label screaming to use the CD first. I haven't found a modem/wireless AP setup CD that actually ever worked.

Best you find a helpful kb'er reasonably close by that knows his/her IT stuff, and a full setup always seems to run about 1 hour.

[Hitcher]

Signal strength isn't an issue. There's mind-raping signal all over here and through the neighbour's too!

I'll see if I can figure out how to hack the router and create an open network.

Sigh.

[Hitcher]

"User name or password incorrect."

Now that's really helpful!

[Gremlin]

One other thing I should note, and its becoming more and more of an issue. Before setting up your wireless network, take note of all the wireless networks around you, and what channel they are using.

When setting up yours, don't give it an obvious name, like your name, address etc, and set it up on a channel not used by anyone else.

Nothing more maddening than having your clients network have issues and you have to go back, to find out someone has set their network up on the same channel. :angry2:

edit: I think D-Link might still use the default of admin, admin for credentials, otherwise, there are passwords for different models. Once the network is set up, don't keep the default passwords, and secure the network.

Visited one client who had a lawyer from a big firm next door. Wireless was his name, unsecured. Password to modem was default as well... *sigh*

[Hitcher]

OK, I'm in now, but I have no idea what I'm looking at.

I think that's enough for a biker of little brain for one evening.

[James Deuce]

Pick me up after work and we'll sort it. No worries.

[Blackshear]

"User name or password incorrect."

Now that's really helpful!

If you haven't set a password for your router through 10.1.1.1 or whatever it is, usually 'admin' and no password is default. Alternatively, google your router and chuck 'default password' on the end.

I tried setting up wireless once, just for my mate so he could leech off mine from his laptop across the road. Didn't really work.

[steve_t]

I run my home network without network authentification (open instead of WPA etc etc) and without encryption. All I have is a MAC filter. Yes any moderately computer savy person could come with a MAC sniffer and get on my network but I doubt any one around here could be bothered!!
Encryption also makes the connection slower.

Haha! D-Link. It is still User Name: Admin. Password: Admin for every router??

[CookMySock]

Wireless networks are crap! My dads laptop loses connection all the time although lifting it up above the couch allows it too connect again. And moving it two metres into another room makes the signal go from low to strong.Get a proper wireless router, and not the cheapest one.

Yeah get it working without encryption first. If you cant figure out the encryption then just use MAC filtering - thats easy to set up and it always works on all systems.

Steve

[James Deuce]

I run my home network without network authentification (open instead of WPA etc etc) and without encryption. All I have is a MAC filter. Yes any moderately computer savy person could come with a MAC sniffer and get on my network but I doubt any one around here could be bothered!!
Encryption also makes the connection slower.

I'm not having baggy arsed local script kiddies leeching off my connection and launching "hilarious" DoS attacks from any IP addy that I happened to pick up from my ISP thanks.

The world is full of morons looking for a free ride. Stop handing out free rides.

[cowboyz]

the simple range of the thing is all the protection I need. I can access the wireless from anywhere in my house but go out to the road and it loses signal.
default password is blank for the DIR215. User is "admin"

just plug a cable into it to configure the wireless.

[Hitcher]

just plug a cable into it to configure the wireless.

Cable always in. The router is between the TelstraClear modem and the desktop.

[steve_t]

I'm not having baggy arsed local script kiddies leeching off my connection and launching "hilarious" DoS attacks from any IP addy that I happened to pick up from my ISP thanks.

The world is full of morons looking for a free ride. Stop handing out free rides.

If these baggy arsed kiddies are running around your neighbourhood with laptops and know how to sniff a MAC address, they probably also know how to crack WEP, WPA and maybe even WPA2. Sure it might take 2 minutes longer to crack the encryption but if they really want to get on your network, they will. Like people breaking into your house, if they REALLY want to, it doesn't matter what locks or alarms or other security you have, they'll get in.
If you want security, the best at the moment is WPA2-PSK with a massively long password of random letters and numbers.
I understand the risk of only using mac filtering but I'm not telling u guys where I live so I reckon I'll be OK :woohoo:

[cowboyz]

Cable always in. The router is between the TelstraClear modem and the desktop.

is there a big red light on the right hand side of the router? Or is it green

You dont need to configure your wireless router for the internet. It will just pass through to the modem.

[Hitcher]

Lights on the router's panel are all green.

[The Stranger]

One other thing I should note, and its becoming more and more of an issue. Before setting up your wireless network, take note of all the wireless networks around you, and what channel they are using.



How do you go about this?

[James Deuce]

If these baggy arsed kiddies are running around your neighbourhood with laptops and know how to sniff a MAC address, they probably also know how to crack WEP, WPA and maybe even WPA2. Sure it might take 2 minutes longer to crack the encryption but if they really want to get on your network, they will. Like people breaking into your house, if they REALLY want to, it doesn't matter what locks or alarms or other security you have, they'll get in.
If you want security, the best at the moment is WPA2-PSK with a massively long password of random letters and numbers.
I understand the risk of only using mac filtering but I'm not telling u guys where I live so I reckon I'll be OK :woohoo:

No, they always take the path of least resistance. Script kiddies and people who know what they are doing are two different things. There are a plethora of wireless networks, both encrypted and not with reasonable signal strength in close proximity to my house. There are at least 4 at any given time and I'm not going to be the exploited network thanks.

I'm not talking about experts who wouldn't piss on a home network. I'm talking lame arse dweebs who think they have a clue.

Encryption keys are made to be broken. You're thinking 2 dimensionally with your approach to security.

[yod]

i'm idaho!

[Gremlin]

How do you go about this?
It does depend what sort of gear you have, what hardware and software etc, but a couple of examples.

My Acer laptop has Intel ProSet Wireless, so I simply turn it on, turn on my wireless and look for wireless networks. It will find anything in range, and without connecting, I can look at the properties of each connection, and it will tell me what channel its on, even if the SSID isn't broadcast (it actually says, "SSID not broadcast" for the name, if I remember rightly :lol:)

Toshiba has an even more flash utility, that graphically shows (in a circle around you) where the networks are located, and you can see the properties of each network.

Then you simply pick a channel not used.

Re not using security, and MAC filtering instead. Yep, could do I guess, but no good for people that have no idea how it all works. When they buy new machines (often it happens regularly), to save a site visit, they only have to know the key for the network (format depends on which security is used, WEP, WPA etc) and enter it when prompted. If you have an unusual network range, you could also turn off DHCP, making it harder again, if you can set your own IP addy.

[The Stranger]

It does depend what sort of gear you have, what hardware and software etc, but a couple of examples.

My Acer laptop has Intel ProSet Wireless, so I simply turn it on, turn on my wireless and look for wireless networks. It will find anything in range, and without connecting, I can look at the properties of each connection, and it will tell me what channel its on, even if the SSID isn't broadcast (it actually says, "SSID not broadcast" for the name, if I remember rightly :lol:)

Toshiba has an even more flash utility, that graphically shows (in a circle around you) where the networks are located, and you can see the properties of each network.

Then you simply pick a channel not used.



Interesting indeed. I must look at those options.
I use WiSpy. It does go a bit further as it shows interference on the various channels also. For example a microwave will always interfere with one or more channels. Sometimes also you see a lot of interference on certain channels at certain locations - like at Hobsonville, I guess due the proximity to the air base.
I find knowing this and allowing for it improves the reliability and speed of a network.
The backtrack Linux distro is also excellent for troubleshooting - or so I am told, because I wouldn't use something like that, being that it would be illegal and all.

[Pixie]

i'm idaho!

When I grow up,I'm going to bovine university

[CookMySock]

Re not using security, and MAC filtering instead. Yep, could do I guess, but no good for people that have no idea how it all works.Naw the mac filter is much easier to set up than a shitload of keys. The mac address is on the bottom of the laptop or in the wireless settings. Just enter it on the router and it goes.


If you have an unusual network range, you could also turn off DHCP, making it harder again, if you can set your own IP addy.Yeah, but that makes life really difficult whenever you want to attach another device. You shouldn't really be addressing your LAN by hand, because its a pain, and its easy to hash it up so all sorts of queer shit happens. Leave it to DHCP.

Start off with mac filter and SSID broadcast turned off. It will fucking inconvenient to break into that.. and then add encyption later when you get bored with everything working so well.

I'll use an open WLAN if I find it, and if someone finds mine they are welcome to use it. Not everyone is trying to download a couple of gigs of movies - sometimes they just want to look for a motel or check their trademe. Also this talk of script kiddies finding your WLAN to launch DDoS is a fiction. The only people firing off large scale DDoS are botnet owners, and they get paid to do it - it isn't about fun,


Steve

[jonbuoy]

No wireless passwords?? Your mad if you don´t secure your own home networks. Jeebus, its not that hard to enter the same password into a WAP and a PC. If you gave the SSID the same name make sure your PC has forgotten/refreshed available access points and isn´t trying to use the old password. Do you really want a strange and unknown user sniffing around on your home network? Its not only the internet they can get to - your own PC is vulnerable too and your totally reliant on your software firewall to protect you.

Mr Hitcher - Only one DHCP server handing out IP´s either your wireless access point OR your router. Make it easy on yourself and give the WAP a static IP so you can find it again when you need to configure it.

[Lias]

http://www.netstumbler.com/downloads/

[Slicksta]

Interesting indeed. I must look at those options.
I use WiSpy. It does go a bit further as it shows interference on the various channels also. For example a microwave will always interfere with one or more channels. Sometimes also you see a lot of interference on certain channels at certain locations - like at Hobsonville, I guess due the proximity to the air base.
I find knowing this and allowing for it improves the reliability and speed of a network.
The backtrack Linux distro is also excellent for troubleshooting - or so I am told, because I wouldn't use something like that, being that it would be illegal and all.

I used to have all sorts of problems with interference brought a 802.11n 5gighz routor they all went away. 2.4gighz spectrum is way to crowded

[RantyDave]

Naw the mac filter is much easier to set up that a shitload of keys.
Because mac addresses can't be changed unless you type "ifconfig eth0 hw ether 00:80:48:BA:d1:20" or whatever the equivalent in Windows-land is. And mac addresses are broadcast completely unsecured by definition. It's also not the most "guest convenient" setup - instead of hollering a password across the kitchen you have to find their mac address, log into the router, enter it in, reboot the router, swear, try again, swear, find the mac address your f'kin self, discover that "C" and "E" sound the same when shouted over half a dozen people who are saying "are you going to stop nerding out soon or what".....

Not wishing to drag Hitcher's thread even further off topic but ... I just bought the one with an Apple logo on it, typed in the password I wanted for the network, and off we went. But, y'know, expensive ... causes whining in fanboys and stuff.

Dave

[Fatjim]

"User name or password incorrect."

Now that's really helpful!

Oh the irony if you spelt the password wrong. I think I'd piss myself.


but download the patch for xp if you've set up WPA2.

[Hitcher]

IT Guru has diagnosed that something's fucked. Actually he was remarkably restrained in terms of the expletives and percussive devices that I would have brought to bear before now. Particularly when the 64 character hexadecimal string couldn't be cut and pasted...

[davebullet]

Don't D-link - Netgear instead. Picked mine up off trademe $50. Excellent range and I can even run my old dog of a Win98SE machine off it (wirelessly).

What ISP are you running with. Static or dynamic IP address? Do you have more than one laptop / computer? Can you do a ping between them?

[Hitcher]

What ISP are you running with. Static or dynamic IP address? Do you have more than one laptop / computer? Can you do a ping between them?

TelstraClear. Static. Yes. Not at the moment.

[Fatjim]

Particularly when the 64 character hexadecimal string couldn't be cut and pasted...

Those 512bit Hex keys are quite pedantic.

[Fatjim]

Pick me up after work and we'll sort it. No worries.
Still haven't got your bike back eh Jim?

[avgas]

Yep BELKIN and D-Link are banes of my life.
After dealing alot with comms crap in the last 3 years for work i got pretty good at the old Ethernet (kinda have to with IEC61850 and DNPi). And i can openly admit i HATE BELKIN and D-Link.
I ALWAYS have problems with them.
First thing im gonna do when i get home is hook the linksys wireless switch up and hug it. Worth its weight in platinum encrusted gold. Has 1/10th the problems, 5 x the solutions, and 4 times the range (dual antenna FTW!).
Also what the hell is with windows7 wireless handling - takes forever to figure itself out. Linux Mint is done in like 10 seconds. I have gone back to Vista, and i blatantly don't like 7 now.

Hitcher - one thing i have found useful is using a multi-ping program if you have lost something on the network. NetworkView is the best. handy if the router is 10.196.122.161 not 10.196.122.116 :angry2::wacko: which happens far to often.
Also some of the D-Link stuff has a reset jumper in it, to switch everything back to fac. std. eg 10.1.1.1, admin, admin

[CookMySock]

[....] Particularly when the 64 character hexadecimal string couldn't be cut and pasted...Why? Did it have comma's in it? :killingme


Don't D-link - Netgear instead. Don't.

Check <a href="http://www.gowifi.co.nz/Access-Points-802.11/View-all-products.html">thees</a> sheet, seenior! Scope out the 400mW APs there. Get a big fucker antenna for it while ur there.

Steve

[Hitcher]

Hitcher - one thing i have found useful is using a multi-ping program if you have lost something on the network. NetworkView is the best. handy if the router is 10.196.122.161 not 10.196.122.116 :angry2::wacko: which happens far to often.
Also some of the D-Link stuff has a reset jumper in it, to switch everything back to fac. std. eg 10.1.1.1, admin, admin

You appear to have mistaken me for somebody who understands what you're saying. My IT knowledge is based on Dumb Luck(TM) which sometimes works and, on other occasions, takes me further than I really am capable of going or, worse, escaping from.

[Max Preload]

Please ignore the label screaming to use the CD first. I haven't found a modem/wireless AP setup CD that actually ever worked.

You take that back! I have a couple that serve their purpose as coasters perfectly adequately!

[James Deuce]

The issue is most likely not the router.

I will test that theory another night.

Your comments and advice are noted, but this isn't rocket science people.

No, FJ, my bike still isn't back. Looks like 6 months away for one part too.

[RantyDave]

Fucking stupid industry, can't make shit that works. Hitcher is perfectly capable of, well, looking after a motorcycle for instance yet a broadband router ... one of the things that has to become obscenely mainstream in the next twenty years leaves him defeated.

Cars work. Motorbikes work. Cellphones work. Why don't computers. Even the pharmaceutical industry appears able to keep it's shit at least a bit together.

Dave

[Gremlin]

Yeah... speaking of bashing brands, I don't like linksys along with d-link. Dynalink or 3Com for home grade gear (3Com's All in One Router is actually quite well specc'd, with advanced capability for rules, packet handling etc.)


You take that back! I have a couple that serve their purpose as coasters perfectly adequately!
I also have several CDs that didn't burn perfectly that can also serve as coasters. I created my own coasters, you just stole some from another company!!

Back on topic, not being familiar with D-Link, we're actually talking about an AP here, aren't we? Dealing with them on the odd occasion, they do have an odd interface, and you need to make sure the D-Link has the modem as the gateway, ie, its passing all its traffic to the modem. It sounds obvious, but some devices do this automatically, others have to be specifically told. Some have even more convoluted steps.

[davebullet]

On each laptop / computer - get a command prompt up (start then run "cmd" or "command")

enter "ipconfig" and enter. This will dump out the status and IP address of each network interface on your computer. You want to ensure you have a valid and unique IP address and same gateway address on all your machines.

I'd focus on connectivity from one machine to the router (bringing up the admin page etc...), then pinging each machine to prove connectivity of your local network.

I'd also turn the security to open (remove all keys temporarily) and ensure it isn't a WPA-2 / WPA / WEP issue.

Make sure your network setup on each machine is set to dynamically get an IP address (unless you must have a static assigned for some reason locally - usually not required). Ensure your router is set to dish our DHCP addresses.

If all else fails - do a factory reset on the d-link and start again by bringing up the web page.

If you can get the local network going but not through TCL for broadband, then configure your static IP on your laptop ethernet and plug it directly into the cable modem. Just to prove the internet connectivity works. I also have TCL cable and haven't had an outage in 6 months.

[jrandom]

Cars work. Motorbikes work. Cellphones work. Why don't computers.

After ten years of saying that, I decided to become a bicycle courier.


If these baggy arsed kiddies are running around your neighbourhood with laptops and know how to sniff a MAC address, they probably also know how to crack WEP, WPA and maybe even WPA2...

I'm glad I'm just a simple bicycle courier. If I was a software engineer with any experience in cryptosystems, I might be tempted to call you an idiot.

[James Deuce]

OMG.

Look guys, I had limited success last night. I don't think the router is the issue, I think the laptop is the problematic partner. I have a way for testing that by sticking a wireless dongle on Mr Hitcher's PC and seeing how that behaves.

Just so I meet with the approval of you home networking geniuses.

Assumptions:

Dlink router at least 50% OK. Physical connection from Mr Hitcher's PC functions perfectly with no random drop outs.

Old house may have lead insulation in walls. Move laptop to same room as router to remove that variable.

Trouble shooting steps I undertook:

1. Confirmed that we were talking cable modem to Wireless router with 4 port ethernet switch. Only one device providing DHCP on Mr Hitcher's network. Confirmed.

2. Reset wireless adapter on Laptop - Adapter was switched on but wireless adapter indicator was off and the adapter showed as powered off in Device Manager. The IBM config tool also showed the adapter as off. Got that going.

3. Browsed for wireless networks. Only work 50% of the time. Rebooted laptop with wireless adapter powered up.

4. Check router config while laptop rebooted. Went through various filtering options, DHCP settings, Static WAN IP config, wirelss mode and encryption type, and made sure encryption key was known and configured correctly. DHCP scope well separated from physical interface address. No conflicts. Pre-shared key correct on laptop and router. However a bit too many "auto detect" options turned on (802.11b, g, and n auto detection; WPA/WPA2 auto detection) for my personal comfort. Set to WPA only, and 802.11b/g, and TKID cypher.

5. Laptop only detecting wireless networks 50% of the time. Plugged laptop Nic into router. Works like a charm, router registers new DHCP client and shows log entry for new DHCP client..

6. Ask Mr Hitcher if he has performed a power reset on router. He hasn't so I repower router. Wireless detection performance improves for laptop to about 75%. Still complaining about low power signal despite the twin aerials on the Dlink box growing a pre-cancerous lesion on my knee in the hour or so we've been sitting next to it.

7. Take opportunity to update laptop drivers while connected physically to router. No wireless adapter updates available for the laptop.

8. Document router config and hold reset button in for 10 seconds. Reconfig router to Mr Hitcher's requirements. Leave encryption off and use open, unsecured wireless network. Still no go (see where this is going?).

9. Turn off broadcast SSID, manually configure wireless adapter on laptop. Still no go.

10. Turn on broadcast SSID. Turn on WPA, generate 64 character key, configure laptop adapter manually at hardware driver level rather than vista interface. Success. Browse Stuff.

11. Grin wildly, put laptop on charge, move it from one side of room to other and wireless link drops, never to recover.

12. Go home (Thank you for the lift Mr Hitcher).

13. Next plan - test functionality of wireless router by using my own, known good (I'm using it right now) NetComm NP644 USB 802.11b/g dongle on Mr Hitcher's XP Desktop with the physical NIC disconnected from the router. If it works, back the laptop up, rebuild from scratch test again. If not, unplug Dlink Router and hurl it from Mr Hitcher's office window into the primeval wasteland of the Ngaio Gorge.

Is that OK with you guys?

[RantyDave]

configure laptop adapter manually at hardware driver level rather than vista interface. Success.
Oh my god. What ... the ... fuck ....

(Thank you for the lift Mr Hitcher).
Yeah, what gives with your bike???

Dave

[James Deuce]

Oh my god. What ... the ... fuck ....

Yeah, what gives with your bike???

Dave

Indeed.

Still waiting for parts.

[jonbuoy]

So it says couldn´t connect to wireless network, or wireless network has no activity and you get given some funky IP?

[James Deuce]

So it says couldn´t connect to wireless network, or wireless network has no activity and you get given some funky IP?

There's no issue with anything "funky" in the address space at all. As I said, I reduced the config to basic, simple, unecrypted manually configured connectivity, addressing, and encryption (turned off) to remove the auto config features of the router as being an issue.

The laptop WLAN adapter is either broken or the spastically implemented driver suite is causing the problem. I personally think that is the issue. The laptop needs a refresh and I will make sure that driver complexity is removed from the mix.

In the meantime the dongle test is to make sure the WiFi part of the Dlink box is working fine by using known good hardware. If it works on the PC and the laptop then it will be the WLAN adapter/driver on the laptop at fault.

[jonbuoy]

I had a wierd problem in the past with a WAP not passing through DHCP on the wireless - wired connection was OK. PC was given a strange IP address not from the DHCP server.

[James Deuce]

The strange address isn't a strange address at all, it is simply the default DHCP address assigned when the PC can't contact a DHCP server.

DHCP is working for the WLAN adapter on the laptop, but only when the adapter decides it can see a wireless network.

[Fatjim]

I might be able to pop round tonight, and then we can all stand and stare at it together.

[scracha]

I might be able to pop round tonight, and then we can all stand and stare at it together.

Oh for love of Ged. Tell him to plug the bloody thing in via an ethernet cable and I'll sort it remotely. Genuine offer...he can PM me if he wants my phone number.

I've found some of the older 802.11g cards don't connect and sometimes cause the dreaded blue screen of death when connecting to 802.11n type routers.

I blame the gits in whitewear/furniture shops who sell joe public wifi kit with comments like "oh just plug it in, put the CD in and it'll all work automagically".

[James Deuce]

Oh for love of Ged. Tell him to plug the bloody thing in via an ethernet cable and I'll sort it remotely. Genuine offer...he can PM me if he wants my phone number.

I've found some of the older 802.11g cards don't connect and sometimes cause the dreaded blue screen of death when connecting to 802.11n type routers.

I blame the gits in whitewear/furniture shops who sell joe public wifi kit with comments like "oh just plug it in, put the CD in and it'll all work automagically".

Thanks dude. I'll remember that. Why don't you just come out and say I have no idea? I've just said, repeatedly that the issue is most likely not the router, but the laptop WiFi hardware driver implementation. I did get it to work briefly, but I didn't have time to finish sorting the drivers.

I also did mention that I took the route of reducing the likely conflicts to nil by manually avoiding the the auto config options that select channels, 802.11x version, and cypher version by configuring it all manually, hence my belief that either the WiFI hardware on the laptop, or it's driver implementation are what is giving the new router fits.

[steve_t]

After ten years of saying that, I decided to become a bicycle courier.
I'm glad I'm just a simple bicycle courier. If I was a software engineer with any experience in cryptosystems, I might be tempted to call you an idiot.

Haha... this thread has become ridiculous. Some of u guys need to take a chill pill :calm: and realise that people do stuff in different ways to achieve the results they want. Just cos they don't do it your way, doesn't mean you need to start calling people names. Or is it a general consensus on here that anyone who does anything differently to the way you do things is an idiot?
Network security - if you knowingly run with low security measures, it's your choice and your own fault if someone gets on your network and does evil things.
There's lots of other things people do with an 'accepted risk'....
Some of you guys should go for a ride or something:wacko:
With regards to the OP, it sounds like it's all under control now so any further suggestions to 'help' can probably expect a less than positive response :gob:

[Hitcher]

I might be able to pop round tonight, and then we can all stand and stare at it together.

A better plan would be for you to rev the throttle on your Tuono and James and I could drool. That sounds infinitely preferable to staring unless, not being an IT person, I'm missing something?

[scracha]

Might be worth popping into DSE and umm...borrowing* a d-link N' type card then?

I had similar problems 2 or 3 months back with a customer's Linksys kit (I personally think linksys kit is complete $hite). WMP300 PCI card and WRT160N. The magazines all rave about this kit and it's supposedly been designed to work together. Not cheap either. 3 hours later I contacted Linksys live support thingie and had to enter some truly bizzarre channel and handshaking settings to get them to talk. Made a couple of old laptops next door blue screen. They had PCMCIA D-Link G650 cards in them and had to update their drivers (wasn't on the bloody d-link websites either I might add).

To cut a long story short, unless it's essential then I'm avoiding N type stuff like the plague until it's been ratified and actually works. Limiting factor for most small businesses and home networks is the broadband anyhoo.


*they've got a wonderful return policy if it doesn't work.




If these baggy arsed kiddies are running around your neighbourhood with laptops and know how to sniff a MAC address, they probably also know how to crack WEP, WPA and maybe even WPA2. Sure it might take 2 minutes longer to crack the encryption but if they really want to get on your network, they will. Like people breaking into your house, if they REALLY want to, it doesn't matter what locks or alarms or other security you have, they'll get in.
If you want security, the best at the moment is WPA2-PSK with a massively long password of random letters and numbers.
WPA or WPA2 with at least 8 random upper and lowercase characters including a symbol and number is fine....Something like 7,000,000,000,000,000 possible combinations.

Beyond a quick 10 minute dictionary attack, nobody would seriously brute force a home user's wifi router. I'm sure their laptop battery will run flat and they'll just spend another 5 minutes looking for some idiot running unencrypted or WEP.

If you REALLY want to get onto someone's network, then spoofing an access point is a far easier method. But I'm sure if it was worth getting into they'd be running enterprise level security.

[Anarkist]

Yeah get it working without encryption first. If you cant figure out the encryption then just use MAC filtering - thats easy to set up and it always works on all systems.


MAC Filtering is NOT secure. Neither is hiding the SSID, and neither is WEP which can be cracked in seconds, by almost anybody.

Keeping in mind, I haven't read the thread I would suggest the following:

Check that the wireless adapter in your laptops are compatible with WPA/WPA2. Some older cards only support WEP, before better security was designed. A firmware update for your specific device may be available which may make it compatible with stronger encryption.

If you're still having issues, force the router back to 802.11b or even futher back to 802.11b for testing and see if that works.

If you're still having issues, I would return the router and pick up something like a Linksys WAG200G.

[James Deuce]

You should read the thread then, because as I KEEP SAYING, I am of the opinion that it is the laptop that has the issue, not the router. I have done all you suggested and more and this evening I will be testing the laptop with a USB dongle that I know works with the laptop's WiFi hardware disabled.

:bash:

[bungbung]

Another thought, a vista update killed off/made intermittent the wireless on my laptop. It couldn't see networks though the router was a vouple of metres away.

The fix was to remove all of the oem wifi management software and just use the vista applications,

[The Stranger]

You should read the thread then, because as I KEEP SAYING,

For god's sake man, you don't really expect people to read and comprehend before forming an opinon do you?

[James Deuce]

Another thought, a vista update killed off/made intermittent the wireless on my laptop. It couldn't see networks though the router was a vouple of metres away.

The fix was to remove all of the oem wifi management software and just use the vista applications,
That's exactly what I'm going to be doing tonight. As I keep saying. :calm:

[davebullet]

Seems you're doing all the right things (well - with my limited knowledge).

Is Mr. Hitcher's laptop a Lenovo? Mine is and in about 5 months it has "Corrupted" its wifi configuration. By that I mean, the light is on but nobody is home. It is running Vista and rebooting doesn't fix. The only solution I've found when it sporadically does this is to choose the option to "repair". Being Windows - it is in an un-intuitive place in one of the 4 different network config applications. (Vista = dead rotting pig with recycled lipstick).

[Hitcher]

One is starting to wish that one had never started this thread...

[Cajun]

One is starting to wish that one had never started this thread...

i have the power to make it dispear (c: <

what it worth to you?

[Hitcher]

what it worth to you?

Niterider may have US$250,000 for you...

[cowboyz]

That's exactly what I'm going to be doing tonight. As I keep saying. :calm:

Is the router turned on.....

It could be the power to the router is not getting through due to the off switch.......

[James Deuce]

Not calm. Not Calm. NOT CALM.

Happy place. :calm:

[cowboyz]

for what its worth. I have set up 3 of these particular wireless and 2 of them had issues with laptops. Both turned out to be a WPA issue. Both laptops were over 3 yrs old.

Thats all I am saying cause you not calm and may know where I live.

[Fatjim]

Is the router turned on.....

It could be the power to the router is not getting through due to the off switch.......

This is good advice. Is the green light on the modem?

Also, make sure theirs not a washing machine or microwave between the modem and the laptop. If there is, move the modem.

[RantyDave]

As I keep saying.
Oh, hey, why don't you remove the OEM crap and just use the native Vista stuff.

I haven't read the thread, I think it's about Haddock fishing.

Dave

[James Deuce]

"Den Sam Jackson said: Teh walkies of the Ceiling Cat beliefer iz fightins an stuff by lotza unfair gredy aholes an George Boosh. Mani cheeborgrz 2 teh beliefer cat cuz of bein nice n stuff 2 helpin kitties thru teh scary plaice. He gud beliefer cat and finden losted kitties an such. Ceiling cat gonna pwn demz who fuk wit my budz. U kno mai name iz Ceiling Cat whe I'z scartchin yo ize out n such. (dere be sum despurting bout dis line, but dis as gud as any Ceiling Cat seeds, so et stayin)"

Lolcat Bible, Ezekial 25, 7.

[Gremlin]

so have you tried rebooting everything?

:chase:

seriously tho, take a win XP laptop along if you can... I don't trust vista at all, and that networking centre shit with zones for "home", "business" trust blah brings back the painful memories of mcafee toying with me :crybaby:

[The Stranger]

brings back the painful memories of mcafee toying with me :crybaby:

Yeah, their coffee gives me the shits too!

[jonbuoy]

The strange address isn't a strange address at all, it is simply the default DHCP address assigned when the PC can't contact a DHCP server.

DHCP is working for the WLAN adapter on the laptop, but only when the adapter decides it can see a wireless network.

Sweet well it wasn't clear from your posts if you could connect and not get assigned or not connect at all, meh why bother asking if you don't anyones input. :whocares:

[James Deuce]

I wasn't asking.

[vifferman]

"Den Sam Jackson said: Teh walkies of the Ceiling Cat beliefer iz fightins an stuff by lotza unfair gredy aholes an George Boosh. Mani cheeborgrz 2 teh beliefer cat cuz of bein nice n stuff 2 helpin kitties thru teh scary plaice. He gud beliefer cat and finden losted kitties an such. Ceiling cat gonna pwn demz who fuk wit my budz. U kno mai name iz Ceiling Cat whe I'z scartchin yo ize out n such. (dere be sum despurting bout dis line, but dis as gud as any Ceiling Cat seeds, so et stayin)"

Lolcat Bible, Ezekial 25, 7.
Gooood, good.
I was just about to post and say how boring this thread was getting and how you needed to start a fistfight or summat.
But that'll do for a start.

If you'n'TheHitch got really pissed and then really pissed off and staRTED (fkn caps key) defenestrating computer gear, that would be good too. :woohoo:
Just take lotsa foterz.....

[jrandom]

You should read the thread then, because as I KEEP SAYING...

:corn:<tenchars>

[jonbuoy]

I wasn't asking.

Well you seem to be struggling...

[James Deuce]

Not at all. I was pointing out that there is a fault fixing process to go through and I am still going through it. It is a process. Some people seem to think that every idea that rushes into their head is exactly the right one and all things IT should be fixed instantaneously because it's the computer age.

I will sort it and Mr & Mrs Hitcher won't need to spend money on a new router either.

[Fatjim]

Going yet?

[sinned]

One is starting to wish that one had never started this thread...
I knew from your first post that this would be a thread to watch.

Not calm. Not Calm. NOT CALM.

Happy place. :calm:


Sweet well it wasn't clear from your posts if you could connect and not get assigned or not connect at all, meh why bother asking if you don't anyones input. :whocares:


I wasn't asking.


Well you seem to be struggling...


Going yet?

This is so much fun :whistle:

[scrivy]

I cannot believe I've read through 6 f@cken pages of this!!

Look guys, all you have to do is... unpl&^$hk djhD(*&&7dhks7dfhsd


oh crap, there goes me router................











:whistle:

[scrivy]

I cannot believe I've read through 6 f@cken pages of this!!

Look guys, all you have to do is... unpl&^$hk djhD(*&&7dhks7dfhsd


oh crap, there goes me router................











:whistle:

Right, as you were.

[scracha]

Not at all. I was pointing out that there is a fault fixing process to go through and I am still going through it. It is a process. Some people seem to think that every idea that rushes into their head is exactly the right one and all things IT should be fixed instantaneously because it's the computer age.


Well yeah...I fix everything instantly.
:calm:

[James Deuce]

Going yet?
Perfectly. On my router.

Just upgrading the laptop from Vista to XP.

[Paul in NZ]

Just upgrading the laptop from Vista to XP.

That really IS a worthwhile upgrade....

[Gremlin]

Not at all. I was pointing out that there is a fault fixing process to go through and I am still going through it. It is a process. Some people seem to think that every idea that rushes into their head is exactly the right one and all things IT should be fixed instantaneously because it's the computer age.
soooo, what you're really trying to say is, you have no idea, and you're trying every idea you can think of, one after another? :whistle:

Would you like some help? :dodge:

[James Deuce]

There's a Tui ad in there.

[The Stranger]

Would you like some help? :dodge:

How could he possibly need help, he has sooo much of it already in this thread.

[Gremlin]

How could he possibly need help, he has sooo much of it already in this thread.
Well, y'know... its been a while, and not solved yet... thought he could use just a bit more ;)

edit: the fish aren't biting :crybaby:

[scracha]

Cue pointless Vista bashing. Since Master Deuce gets upset when peeps offer him genuine help, I thought I'd hijack the thread.

Heres news for ya fellahs.

Iche liebe Vista. It's miles better than XP.

[Anarkist]

Why not upgrade to Windows 7?

The release candidate is out at the moment.

Microsoft Windows 7 Build 7100 (x86)

This is the long awaited Release Candidate 1
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/04/23/windows-7-rc-completed-build-7100

Release name: Microsoft.Windows.7.RC1.Build.7100.x86.DVD
Release date: 2009-04-24

[James Deuce]

Cue pointless Vista bashing. Since Master Deuce gets upset when peeps offer him genuine help, I thought I'd hijack the thread.

Heres news for ya fellahs.

Iche liebe Vista. It's miles better than XP.

You might want to work on your "help" schpiel. It sounds like derision.

[Brian d marge]

well if we are thread hijacking ,,,Im saying nowt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKG08z85DtY

:whistle:

Stephen

[jonbuoy]

Not at all. I was pointing out that there is a fault fixing process to go through and I am still going through it. It is a process. Some people seem to think that every idea that rushes into their head is exactly the right one and all things IT should be fixed instantaneously because it's the computer age.

I will sort it and Mr & Mrs Hitcher won't need to spend money on a new router either.

Well thats great, don´t think anyone was suggesting their idea was the solution just offering previous experience/ideas. If someone elses findings can help me solve a problem I have no problem in accepting their ideas. No one knows everything about everything, even experts take ideas onboard.

[jrandom]

Iche liebe Vista.

Because it can take a perfectly decent computer that used to do something when you clicked on things, and turn it into an whirring, grinding excuse for unproductivity?

[The Stranger]

Well thats great, don´t think anyone was suggesting their idea was the solution just offering previous experience/ideas. If someone elses findings can help me solve a problem I have no problem in accepting their ideas. No one knows everything about everything, even experts take ideas onboard.

You know the old saying mate - when the student is ready the teacher will appear.
Be patient, give him time and he'll come back ready and willing to learn.

[James Deuce]

Well thats great, don´t think anyone was suggesting their idea was the solution just offering previous experience/ideas. If someone elses findings can help me solve a problem I have no problem in accepting their ideas. No one knows everything about everything, even experts take ideas onboard.


I understand that. No one came up with anything I hadn't already done, because as I said, it isn't rocket science, but the cause of the problem needs to be deduced by a process of elimination, not guesswork.

I posted what I'd done, simply to show that I'm not a n00b, and yes, I had considered the stuff people had posted. People didn't read it, thus was born a sense of frustration on my part.

As is the case when diagnosing a mechanical issue with a motorcycle, advice given on the Internet to experienced mechanics isn't always appreciated or even in the ballpark. Some suggestions (like scracha's one to STFU and let him fix it) are just insulting.

The laptop is now functioning perfectly and the built-in wireless works fine on my DLINK wireless router. It just so happens that my router doesn't even entertain 802.11n because it's a couple of years old. It's wireless adapter isn't dropping out from time to time either.

So now that the laptop is running XP (and I'm no Vista hater, but the laptop is running vastly better than it was, but then that is usually the case with an O/S refresh), and talking consistently using no encryption, or WEP or WPA cyphers I reckon I can confidently say it was IBM's OEM Vista driver was causing the problem. I'm sure Hitcher will let me know when he hooks the laptop into his router as to the status of it's wireless capability on his router. If it still doesn't work on his router, then back to shop with the new router to swap it with something less "featured".

[scracha]

You might want to work on your "help" schpiel. It sounds like derision.

After 5 pages of mostly stupid suggestions, my "help" was a geniune offer to get things up and running but as you're such a fuckin prima donna towards myself or anyone else trying to assist, I'll leave you to it.

Changing an operating system to fix a wifi conflict seems like overkill to me, but what do I know...I've only done this every working day for umpteen years..

[pzkpfw]

Have you tried re-booting?

[Hitcher]

Have you tried re-booting?

Please bend over.

[James Deuce]

After 5 pages of mostly stupid suggestions, my "help" was a geniune offer to get things up and running but as you're such a fuckin prima donna towards myself or anyone else trying to assist, I'll leave you to it.

Changing an operating system to fix a wifi conflict seems like overkill to me, but what do I know...I've only done this every working day for umpteen years..

I didn't change the OS to fix the WiFI problem.

Your Prima Donna is leaking btw.

[Tank]

I understand that. No one came up with anything I hadn't already done, because as I said, it isn't rocket science, but the cause of the problem needs to be deduced by a process of elimination, not guesswork.


Have you tried the Router?









Just kidding. Gotta love just how many people are so full of themselves when it comes to IT. Everyone's a expert - dropping acronyms at every opportunity to sound smarter, recommending upgrading to a RC thats been released for a couple of hours etc. FFS.

James - you have the patience of a saint. As you say its a process of elimination. good luck guy.

[Hitcher]

And given his commitments, Hitcher won't get a chance to see whether the tireless and extremely patient St James's work has made a difference to wireless connectivity until probably Sunday evening.

[Gremlin]

Gotta love just how many people are so full of themselves when it comes to IT. Everyone's a expert - dropping acronyms at every opportunity to sound smarter, recommending upgrading to a RC thats been released for a couple of hours etc. FFS.
:killingme

You haven't been on KB much have ya? There are always plenty willing to offer advice not knowing much at all. However, there are also plenty who do that, and more technical stuff every day for a job.

Tis be the KB art... sifting through the qualified and unqualified opinions :yes: