Mental breakdowns: recognising one in progress?

[MotoGirl]

Hi ya’ll!

I realise this isn’t bike-related and a certain mod (Cajun/hubby) is going to groan about “more Rant and Rave bollocks” but I’m curious about the experiences you have had with mental breakdowns – be it your own breakdown or someone else’s.

I’m not talking about my own mental state because I’m always away with the fairies – I’m referring to the state of a close relative. This particular person is so paranoid, obsessive, and depressed that we think she’s lost the plot. Let’s call her “Uncle Helen” to make it easy. Hopefully this thread will help me determine whether we need to get her help (or committed :rofl:) or if this is something that will blow over.

Sometimes Uncle Helen says the most malicious and infuriating comments, but in her mind she’s completely justified and the rest of the world is wrong. It’s like her judgement has become so clouded that she can’t even comprehend how far she’s stepped over the line. One example of this is when she accused her flatmates of shagging behind her back simply because they left the house at the same time. The male “flatmate” comes with benefits, hence why she went off her nut.

Personally, I believe these comments stem from having a major upheaval that caused her disposable income to vanish into the pitiful amount earned on a benefit. To call her “obsessed” with money would be an understatement – she will shaft anyone for the all-elusive dollar and I believe she resents anyone that has it.

When Uncle Helen isn’t upsetting people, she’s stuffing her face. Food is inhaled in one foul swoop, and it’s often a whole mock cream sponge or packet or Chocolate Thins after dinner. You see, Uncle Helen has had stomach banding surgery to prevent her from eating all life’s goodies but it got in the way of her constant binging so she had it reversed. As you can imagine, the weight of (another) small child was soon added to a body that was already morbidly obese.

I’m not sure if this behaviour is symbolic of a breakdown because Uncle Helen has always been fucked in the head – she’s just got worse. We’re not sure whether “worse” has taken her to breaking point or if this is just her new personality.

Any ideas?

[Headbanger]

Any ideas?

Nasty bitch.Stay away.

[AllanB]

Sometimes Uncle Helen says the most malicious and infuriating comments, but in her mind she’s completely justified and the rest of the world is wrong.
Any ideas?

She sounds like some of the 10 year old girls at my daughters school.

I just keep clear of people who piss me off.

[RantyDave]

Uncle Helen has had stomach banding surgery to prevent her from eating all life’s goodies but it got in the way of her constant binging so she had it reversed.
Ummm, did the f'n taxpayer shell out for this? Other than that...

Other thoughts:

Flatmate with benefits had better buy some running shoes. And no rabbits.
Has she become prone to panic attacks? Sleeping badly - particularly waking up with 'racing' thoughts (not about racing, the thoughts themselves)? Either which way Dr Dave (who is not a real doctor and does not even play one on TV) prescribes 8 hrs sleep a night; no weed; no alcohol; take fish oil capsules daily; lots of exercise; get a fucking job.


Dave

[oldguy]

There use to be a place up here for people like that,

"Kingseat"

now theirs no where for them to go get treatment.

[Oakie]

In my very un-professional opinion I would suggest that her 'symptoms' are a whole lot more to do with insecurity and low self-esteem than any real mental illness ... at this stage. Certainly could get there though.

She been known to abuse drugs or alcohol?

[MotoGirl]

In my very un-professional opinion I would suggest that her 'symptoms' are a whole lot more to do with insecurity and low self-esteem than any real mental illness ... at this stage. Certainly could get there though.

She been known to abuse drugs or alcohol?

No, she's practically a nun and never touches anything fun.

[sidecar bob]

Nasty bitch.Stay away.

Yep, chuck the fuckin nut bar as far as you can & never even discuss her again. No good can come of associating with people like that.
No, you dont have to help her & prop her up. Sacks of shit deserve no such treatment.

[MotoGirl]

Yep, chuck the fuckin nut bar as far as you can & never even discuss her again. No good can come of associating with people like that.
No, you dont have to help her & prop her up. Sacks of shit deserve no such treatment.

I don't want to associate with her or prop her up, but unfortunately, she's in a position where she could make my life very uncomfortable. (She owns a small portion of my house so I couldn't even sell it and leave town if she was to refuse to sign the papers.) I basically need to be careful how I treat her because she can be pretty vindictive.

[Stirts]

she’s stuffing her face. Food is inhaled in one foul swoop, and it’s often a whole mock cream sponge or packet or Chocolate Thins after dinner.


(She owns a small portion of my house so I couldn't even sell it and leave town if she was to refuse to sign the papers.)I basically need to be careful how I treat her because she can be pretty vindictive.


Any ideas?

Buy her a load of big fat cream sponge cakes, she will love you for it, and she will eat herself dead! Problem solved.

[sidecar bob]

I don't want to associate with her or prop her up, but unfortunately, she's in a position where she could make my life very uncomfortable. (She owns a small portion of my house so I couldn't even sell it and leave town if she was to refuse to sign the papers.) I basically need to be careful how I treat her because she can be pretty vindictive.

Hmm, yes, i associated with a vindictive loser once. Not cool, can you buy her out?

[hospitalfood]

she is sick. not bad.
there is very little understanding when it comes to obsessive compulsive eating, however it is starting to be considered an addiction, which it certainly is.
food addicts display all the bad behaviors of drug addicts, they are very VERY similar. sadly there is no treatment availably that I know of but if you did want to do anything I would recommend talking to an alcohol and drug agency or professional.

[SARGE]

People accuse me of most of that stuff .. Most of the time ..

Problem is .. Its been over 30 years ..

Maybe im just a dick...

[Stirts]

she is sick. not bad.
there is very little understanding when it comes to obsessive compulsive eating, however it is starting to be considered an addiction, which it certainly is.
food addicts display all the bad behaviors of drug addicts, they are very VERY similar. sadly there is no treatment availably that I know of but if you did want to do anything I would recommend talking to an alcohol and drug agency or professional.

But like any other addict, they can't be helped unless they want help.

[slofox]

Hi ya’ll!

I realise this isn’t bike-related and a certain mod (Cajun/hubby) is going to groan about “more Rant and Rave bollocks” but I’m curious about the experiences you have had with mental breakdowns – be it your own breakdown or someone else’s.

I’m not talking about my own mental state because I’m always away with the fairies – I’m referring to the state of a close relative. This particular person is so paranoid, obsessive, and depressed that we think she’s lost the plot. Let’s call her “Uncle Helen” to make it easy. Hopefully this thread will help me determine whether we need to get her help (or committed :rofl:) or if this is something that will blow over.

Sometimes Uncle Helen says the most malicious and infuriating comments, but in her mind she’s completely justified and the rest of the world is wrong.It’s like her judgement has become so clouded that she can’t even comprehend how far she’s stepped over the line. One example of this is when she accused her flatmates of shagging behind her back simply because they left the house at the same time. The male “flatmate” comes with benefits, hence why she went off her nut.

Personally, I believe these comments stem from having a major upheaval that caused her disposable income to vanish into the pitiful amount earned on a benefit. To call her “obsessed” with money would be an understatement – she will shaft anyone for the all-elusive dollar and I believe she resents anyone that has it.

When Uncle Helen isn’t upsetting people, she’s stuffing her face. Food is inhaled in one foul swoop, and it’s often a whole mock cream sponge or packet or Chocolate Thins after dinner. You see, Uncle Helen has had stomach banding surgery to prevent her from eating all life’s goodies but it got in the way of her constant binging so she had it reversed. As you can imagine, the weight of (another) small child was soon added to a body that was already morbidly obese.

I’m not sure if this behaviour is symbolic of a breakdown because Uncle Helen has always been fucked in the head – she’s just got worse. We’re not sure whether “worse” has taken her to breaking point or if this is just her new personality.

Any ideas?


The bits highlighted suggest some "loss of insight" - i.e. she does not see her behaviour as abnormal - so she might be borderline...definitely neurotic but not necessarily psychotic, although loss of insight is a fair indicator if the behaviour becomes really bizarre. Whichever way you slice it, she could do with some professional attention in my opinion. Whether you can get her to take it, is another matter. You might well find her highly resistant to this.

Some of the symptoms you describe sound a little like a bi-polar conditiion - manic-depressive in the old money - probably skewed towards the depressive end of the scale.

Hard to tell from a description. I do think professional attention is necessary.

[Mikkel]

Anyone fancy a pint?

[CookMySock]

Not your problem. Don't you have enough to do or something? ;)

Yeah my sister is completely off the fucking rails too.. It's not my heart attack.


Steve

[MyGSXF]

she could do with some professional attention in my opinion. Whether you can get her to take it, is another matter. You might well find her highly resistant to this.

x2!! :yes:

You could try to find out some info from your local "Women's House" (if there is one where you live), a councillor, or the Mental Health Unit at your local hospital..

However, remember you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.. she might be highly offended if you "try to help her".. it's up to her to help herself.. she is not your "responsibility" :oi-grr:

Might pay to look quietly into trying to buy her out of your house....

[DarkLord]

Sounds like my ex landlord. Psycho bitch who couldn't hold on to a relationship, or a job, and blamed everyone else for her own mistakes. Cold and ruthless at best.

My advice - get the hell out ASAP. It's just a matter of time till she turns on you.

[AllanB]

On reflection, I think a nice holiday in Mexico would do her a world of good.......:whistle:

[RantyDave]

Not cool, can you buy her out?
Agreed with the swinging one - unemployed, skint psychopath who owns part of your house = OPPORTUNITY!!

[RantyDave]

Yeah my sister is completely off the fucking rails too.. It's not my heart attack.
WTF, she's your sister, not some random pie eater. Don't we have family for, y'know, a reason?

Dave

[Kemet]

Like some of the others have said with regard to the house, can you find some way of buying out her share? If you can't afford it at the moment is there someone you trust that would be willing to help you out with the money so you can. If she is really worried about money at the moment it may make her more responsive to selling her equity in the house.

If things are going to get a little difficult between you both - IF - then it's not a good idea to have the equity thing hanging over your heads.

With her mental state, I think you know already that there is not a hell of a lot you can do until she wants to do something. 'Be there' for her if you want to be there and think you can handle it. If you don't think you can handle it don't 'be there' however because you think you must. It won't be healthy or helpful for either of you.


Do you have an Employee Assistance Program where you work that you can use to get some advice? Even though it is your sister having the larger problem it isn't making your life very easy and is a perfectly valid reason (I reckon) to use EAP.

my 5c

Good luck

[DarkLord]

With people who are obviously in that sort of state, you need to realize that the only person who can change them, is themselves. Nothing will change until she takes a good look in the mirror and realizes what is going on, and starts taking responsibility for her own actions. If people have something in their lives they are running from (as she is trying to) it will just keep on catching up with them, it is not going to get resolved until she turns and faces her own truth. It is very hard and frustrating to be around someone who is consistently looking in the wrong direction for the answers to their problems and is not learning anything.

I am sorry to hear that you are in this position. I wish you the best of luck.

[Ixion]

People accuse me of most of that stuff .. Most of the time ..

Problem is .. Its been over 30 years ..

Maybe im just a dick...

It's taken you 30 years to figure that ? Most everybody else figured it within 30 seconds of meeting you :devil2::p

[MotoGirl]

I see a few of you have mentioned the possibility of buying her out of our house. Believe me, we have thought about this and it has cost us many hours of headaches!

The problem is that her expectations of the house's worth is somewhat different to what the market considers it to be worth (there's about a $40K variance). The house was bought about two years ago not long before the prices started dropping. We haven't got an independent valuation because they are too expensive so we have listed it on the market to get feedback from that. She wouldn't trust an independent valuation anyway because she has a number in her mind.

Even though an agent has received feedback from potential buyers saying it's only worth x amount, she is determined that it is worth more and she won't budge. We could only buy out her share if we pay far too much for it.

Edit: I should also add that she is sitting pretty and effectively has more money than anyone else I know. Not all of us have the luxury of living in an expensive and freehold house! The obsession with money comes from her being in her 50's with no work experience and also refusing to go out and get a job. She's trying to scrape together cash for her retirement fund so she doesn't have to earn it herself.

[MotoGirl]

WTF, she's your sister, not some random pie eater. Don't we have family for, y'know, a reason?

Dave

There's a fine line between having family and asking for constant headaches. :yes: I often wonder whether life would be easier without some of them!

[sidecar bob]

To call her “obsessed” with money would be an understatement – she will shaft anyone for the all-elusive dollar and I believe she resents anyone that has it.

Thats a familiar stand out loser trait. Alarm bells should be ringing.

[MotoGirl]

x2!! :yes:

You could try to find out some info from your local "Women's House" (if there is one where you live), a councillor, or the Mental Health Unit at your local hospital..
Good idea. I regularly deal with a guy from Mental Health (BOPDHB is a client) so I might ask him if there's anyone I could ask about it. How convenient!




However, remember you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.. she might be highly offended if you "try to help her".. it's up to her to help herself.. she is not your "responsibility" :oi-grr:

Yes, many folks have said the same thing in this thread. You are dead right when you say she will be offended if we try to help her. I also think the term "defensive" is appropriate because she is so deluded that she believes everything happens to her without any of her own input.

[MyGSXF]

I also think the term "defensive" is appropriate because she is so deluded that she believes everything happens to her without any of her own input.

Denial is a very powerful tool!! :crazy: Unfortunately some people live in their own little worlds.. totally oblivious to the trail of chaos they leave in their wake! :argh:

As mentioned earlier, this kind of behaviour would suggest that she has very deep issues with insecurity, low confidence & very low self esteem. Some people with those traits often tend to reverse this & display outwardly by being bullies, control freaks & are often aggressive or passive people (both are manipulative). They NEED to be in control of everyone & everything around them.. in order to feel "safe" in their own little worlds.

Being defensive is a coping mechanism.. they will try & show "I'll get you" before you can "get them" type of behaviour.

Anger comes from fear, frustration, hurt & grief

She's one mixed up woman inside. I would suggest you get some support for yourself while you deal with things as well, as the ripples from her wake will be having an impact emotionally on you guys as well.

remember she is not your responsibility!

:hug:

[Boob Johnson]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. She isn't mental or near it in my opinion, she is just emotionally immature, extremely self centered & in need of some serious counseling. If you are able to pay this clown out, then do so, sounds like it would be well worth it to be rid of her.

[MotoGirl]

Cheers for that :D


Denial is a very powerful tool!! :crazy: Unfortunately some people live in their own little worlds.. totally oblivious to the trail of chaos they leave in their wake! :argh:

As mentioned earlier, this kind of behaviour would suggest that she has very deep issues with insecurity, low confidence & very low self esteem. Some people with those traits often tend to reverse this & display outwardly by being bullies, control freaks & are often aggressive or passive people (both are manipulative). They NEED to be in control of everyone & everything around them.. in order to feel "safe" in their own little worlds.

Being defensive is a coping mechanism.. they will try & show "I'll get you" before you can "get them" type of behaviour.

Yes, there are definitely issues with self esteem, denial, and rejection here. I can understand that she will be hurt after her marriage split up after nearly 32 years but at the end of the day, she refused to deal with it and swept it under the carpet for months.



remember she is not your responsibility!
She may not be my responsibility but there is obvious pressure in the (extended) family to stay in contact with her. I guess this is a downfall of my entire family living in one city. :doh:

If I tell her to bugger off, she will annoy the other family members (she's so highly dependent) and they will lay the pressure on me to to take some pressure off them. Unfortunately, she doesn't make friends easily and the one she did have recently died so now there are only the family members.

[MyGSXF]

Yes, there are definitely issues with self esteem, denial, and rejection here. I can understand that she will be hurt after her marriage split up after nearly 32 years but at the end of the day, she refused to deal with it and swept it under the carpet for months.

Karma has it's way of catching up.... :whistle:



She may not be my responsibility but there is obvious pressure in the (extended) family to stay in contact with her. I guess this is a downfall of my entire family living in one city. :doh:

If I tell her to bugger off, she will annoy the other family members (she's so highly dependent) and they will lay the pressure on me to to take some pressure off them. Unfortunately, she doesn't make friends easily and the one she did have recently died so now there are only the family members.

Maybe the "family" collectively, could kindly suggest that she seeks some counselling.. rather than just coming from one or two.. 'tough love' kinda thing... ;)

[Number One]

Some of the symptoms you describe sound a little like a bi-polar conditiion - manic-depressive in the old money - probably skewed towards the depressive end of the scale.

My thoughts also - coupled with some personality disorder stuff.

I actually have someone pretty close to me that is very similar and some heavy attention from a psychologist has actually managed to make my person far more easy to deal with - hell even a bit pleasant now and then!

Good luck - not nice to deal with when you are in a position where you can't just walk away.

BTW - personally I would stay the hell away from 'counsellors' in my experience so many of them are as fucked up as the patients they are apparently trying to 'help'.

[fire eyes]

I definitely agree with Number One.

I have experienced some of the same behavior with someone close .. part of his behavior was gradiose, blowing things up completely into something it wasnt .. had an addiction to cars .. buying them without the means to actually pay for them .. a need for constant attention and creating dramas where he became the centre of attention ... sleeping patterns were quite extreme .. total lack of self-responsibility .. weight was up and down like a yoyo .. suicide attempts and threatening to do so .. the pressures of work and inability to cope actually brought it into the forefront ... he would shake upon going to work, muddled and confused .. he left a note for me before work telling me he needed help .. I rung the mental health crisis team whilst some family members went down to his work to get him out of work .. basically we saw it as a safety issue not only for him but also for others around him .. he was already on anti-depressants for about 3 years .. but things really began to spiral out of control .. once the crisis team got involved .. he had councelling, was then referred to a gp who then referred him to a psychiatrist who then diagnoised him as bi-polar.

For us .. then behavior took a sinister and bizzarre turn which had us on high alert .. it's a hard one to recognise but I say .. if the behavior is considered destructive not only to the person but also to ones around them then call a professional for advice .. even just for a sounding board .. it may come to nothing in the end ... but could help with peace of mind.

[Kemet]

Is there any way you could transfer the title of the house into a family trust of some sort.

I have 3 siblings myself. They have purchased a house together. I'm not in the house because I couldn't afford it at the time so I don't have to worry about it on a personal level. What I do know is, is that with them they have organised things because none of us are married or in long term relationships but of course that can easily change. However, they also don't want to be in a situation where if they are in a relationship/marriage that goes sour they don't want the house or equity from the house going to an ex who has had no financial contribution to the house. So what they have done is put it in trust (or registered as a company - one of the two) so that the house/equity is legally only available to them as a group and as a group they must agree on any changes (including buy-outs) and cannot be forced by a spouse to forfeit anything. An arrangement fair for all involved.

This may sound a little cold but whoever has a stake in this house that you jointly own, you may need to get some legal help and have a legal agreement drawn up and put in place to protect everybody.

Drifting a little bit away from the mental health issue but if this can help clear up one issue that is complicating things, to me, it makes it worth suggesting.

Just remember!! Don't forget to look out for yourself in this. You are just as important, too!!

[WolfCollared]

check out the depression thread...

[Forest]

I hate to say it, but a lot of the stuff you mentioned sounds like weakness of character rather than mental illness.

I'd start by making her get a job. Before she develops a case of "benefit-itis".

[MotoGirl]

Drifting a little bit away from the mental health issue but if this can help clear up one issue that is complicating things, to me, it makes it worth suggesting.

Just remember!! Don't forget to look out for yourself in this. You are just as important, too!!
Yes, this is a good idea and our house is already in two separate trusts. The problem is that she is a Trustee in one of these, hence she is responsible for signing any paperwork. Even if the five other Trustees signed something, she would go against us all if there was any chance of her getting more money by holding out.


I hate to say it, but a lot of the stuff you mentioned sounds like weakness of character rather than mental illness.

I'd start by making her get a job. Before she develops a case of "benefit-itis".

It's too late for that, I'm afraid. She's never worked since she got married (about 34 years ago) and she was always supported by her spouse. She doesn't want to work. I know this because:

She's higher qualified than I am (she's doing a Masters in IT)
She went to an interview for a helpdesk position only to tell the interviewers "I didn't do a degree to end up working on a helpdesk"
Her expectations are unreasonable. She's in her 50's and expected to start as a Business Analyst (what I do) getting paid what I get, after years of working in the industry. Like I said, she has no work experience but thinks she's entitled to it because of her age and/or life experience.
I have arranged casual work for her at my own workplace and she will leave after a couple of hours to go home and have a nap.

[discotex]

Doesn't sound bipolar to me. Bipolar suggests she's high and crazed like she's on P then comes down for a depressive episode.

See if you think 5 of these are applicable and have been for some time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder#DSM-IV-TR_criteria

If they are then there's a high likelihood that she's Borderline Personality Disorder.

If that's the case do whatever you can to sort the house situation or she will probably take you down with her.

[Burtha]

BP diagnosis is for the experts and borderline is such a general unbrella that most of us on a bad day could be under it!

Was there ever a time when you got on well and communicated - a special occasion that you could both reflect on?

I think its clear she is depressed, but where its going to lead to and when and what further triggers it only those with the skills will be able to help.

Definitely talk to your friend in the mental health industry.

Good on you for giving a shit!
As you can tell - its hard for most to care for those when others are like this, which is when they actually need at lot of support to help get over their insecurities etc.

[RantyDave]

"I didn't do a degree to end up working on a helpdesk"
I was exactly the same after I graduated. I was 21. Couple of good doses of unemployment sure as shit beat that out of me.

Dave

[2much]

So Neil's being a whiney little bitch again huh? Doctor says, put half a teaspoon of concrete in his coffee for the next 2 weeks... that should help him HTFU.


So anyway... how you doing?:blip:

[imdying]

(there's about a $40K variance)Have her whacked... at least you've got a good idea of what such a job would be worth (to you).

[discotex]

BP diagnosis is for the experts and borderline is such a general unbrella that most of us on a bad day could be under it!


I totally agree BPD requires an expert diagnosis. But then so does depression as it also has such a wide range of symptoms it could be anyone on a bad day. In fact that goes for much of the DSM IV.

All the more reason to seek professional help when dealing with any mental health issues - i.e. you want psychologists/psychiatrists not GPs/councilors.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

I see a few of you have mentioned the possibility of buying her out of our house. Believe me, we have thought about this and it has cost us many hours of headaches!

The problem is that her expectations of the house's worth is somewhat different to what the market considers it to be worth (there's about a $40K variance). The house was bought about two years ago not long before the prices started dropping. We haven't got an independent valuation because they are too expensive so we have listed it on the market to get feedback from that. She wouldn't trust an independent valuation anyway because she has a number in her mind.

Even though an agent has received feedback from potential buyers saying it's only worth x amount, she is determined that it is worth more and she won't budge. We could only buy out her share if we pay far too much for it.

Edit: I should also add that she is sitting pretty and effectively has more money than anyone else I know. Not all of us have the luxury of living in an expensive and freehold house! The obsession with money comes from her being in her 50's with no work experience and also refusing to go out and get a job. She's trying to scrape together cash for her retirement fund so she doesn't have to earn it herself.


I haven't read the lot so if what I'm about to say has been said sorry

Suggest they buy you out.

Although they sound depressed they also sound like they have a little bit of look at poor me sindrome leave them to there Owen misery there is nothing you can do until they are ready to do some thing for them selves.

[SARGE]

It's taken you 30 years to figure that ? Most everybody else figured it within 30 seconds of meeting you :devil2::p

yea .. i blame the 80's

[SARGE]

She went to an interview for a helpdesk position only to tell the interviewers "I didn't do a degree to end up working on a helpdesk"



my wife is a supervisor over at university of Auckland ITSS helpdesk .. does her alright .. she makes more than i do