Lapped riders! WTF

[GSVR]

This thread is being started to discuss the issues surrounding having bikes lapping at different speeds and lapped riders.

The most extreme example I have seen of backmarkers being lapped is Wanganui. I've known riders to pull out of a race there to avoid getting in the way of the lead pack.

Its often stated thats its the responsibility of the overtaking rider to pass safetly.

I think some clubs operate a 115% percent rule when qualifying and riders not reaching this percentage of the fastest rider being placed in Clubmans or some other alternative but this will still mean that slower rider and machines are going to be lapped in longer races.

What are the thoughts of our fastest riders? How do the riders who get lapped feel about how things currently operate? Should different rules apply to National level racing than Club Racing? Are lapped riders the most important safety issue for riders what else is there?

[sinfull]

I aint no bottom dweller ! I'm the scum that floats around the top !

That aside, tis the reason i won't enter my triumph in anything that's liable to see the front runners catch me !

So i have sort of given up on the racing buzz till i can lay my hands on sommit else !

[codgyoleracer]

This thread is being started to discuss the issues surrounding having bikes lapping at different speeds and lapped riders.

The most extreme example I have seen of backmarkers being lapped is Wanganui. I've known riders to pull out of a race there to avoid getting in the way of the lead pack.

Its often stated thats its the responsibility of the overtaking rider to pass safetly.

I think some clubs operate a 115% percent rule when qualifying and riders not reaching this percentage of the fastest rider being placed in Clubmans or some other alternative but this will still mean that slower rider and machines are going to be lapped in longer races.

What are the thoughts of our fastest riders? How do the riders who get lapped feel about how things currently operate? Should different rules apply to National level racing than Club Racing? Are lapped riders the most important safety issue for riders what else is there?


The last thing a faster rider wants to do is get tangled up with a rider about to be lapped. A) Because it can spoil both the riders days real quick and B) because if you have someone on your tail - you dont want to impede your own line too much & slow yourself down.
The onus is most definatly on the passing rider to complete the pass without interfering with the slower riders line or making any contact.
In my recollection there have been very few incidents (crashes) overall which relate to this subject - however it is a reality of "the laws of average" that having two bikes that are travelling at close proximity to each other & with one going quicker than the other that "shit happens".
often in my experience the slower rider is the one that suffers the worst - as they have a tendency to overreact to a close passing manouvre and may change their line rapidly. Changing their line can have a dramatic affect on the next person behind them that is "about to make a pass" - or it can affect there own stabilty & cause a problem.
The blue flag idea is a sound one - however educating marshalls can be tricky for clubs + also it gets difficult on longer races to identify the faster riders coming through - especially if they are mid fielders passing slower riders.

Basically it is an inevitable fact of racing that passing & lapping will occur (especially on shorter tracks). It is a "part of racing" and is also a part of the risk of racing. I personally have entered races in classes above my grade and have been lapped as a result in the past due to this & have never really had a problem with the issue.

The only 'safety issue " i have with it is when there is a machine or a competitor on the track that has a massive straightline speed differential. And by massive i am talking 50kph +. These speed differentials create situations where if things get a bit tight - then the contact that results is a BIG impact and often injury causing. This situation rarely happens in classes where all machines are "similar" - but it occasionaly does arise , - usually when there is a machine fault or the rider is very new or inexperienced to the sport.
I need not preach to the faster guys who know only to well the problems that can unfold very quickly if there are extreme speed differentials.

Most of the clubs are very good at highlighting the protocol of being passed at riders briefing aka "hold your line & dont worry or try to predict whats happening behind you". The faster rider in almost all instances has his/her own & your own safety in mind.

Cheers
Glen

[JayRacer37]

I agree with Glen, in that its not the lapping that is difficult, it is the lapping a bike moving at a much slower place. Go to a trakday and go out in the 'slow' class and you will see what I mean, it can be downright scary. At club rounds (vic wnter series, for eg) they seem good at getting the riders who are really dangerous out whilegiving everyone else a fair shot at riding in their proper class. At Nationals though, I think that although they do enforce a 115% qualifiying cutoff, that perhaps with the lenth of races they need to move this to the more international standard of a 107% qual cutoff. Not that I don't like newer/slower riders having a go/competing/improving themselves at National level but when it gets to raceday it will be serious, and that is the time when them getting lapped is going to much more easily turn into them or the other rider getting knocked down. I have seen a few needless crashes because slower riders were getting lapped around the midpoint of a national race and the riders lapping just HAD to get passed. That is the mentality when it comes down to something as important as the nationals, adn I think that is something we could protect our slower/less experienced riders from. But I know this will be a touchy subject for some! :Oops:

[R6_kid]

The 115% rule seemed to work well last year in the 10 Lap races at PMCC, however when they did the 15 lapper it became obvious that a smaller margin may have been appropriate as Craig Sherriffs made his way up through the mid-pack towards the end of the F1 race. I don't think there were any major problems there as the field was relatively sparse (15 bikes total perhaps) and Craig had a fairly decent lead and didn't make any dodgy passes.

In WSBK and occasionly in MotoGP they will only just start to pass the back markers towards the last 3 laps of a 20+ lap race, perhaps it should be calculated such that you might expect the back markers to get passed at the end of a race, certainly not within 6-7 laps of the start of a 15 lap race as was evident in the example above.

[White trash]

The thing is, this is club racing, let's be honest.

Only the very fastest of riders end up lapping others and those that do, are skilled and experienced enough to do it safely and without fuss.

[FROSTY]

In my opinion It is not speed differencial that is the big issue at CLUB level its actually errattic riding.
In my opinion the very WORST thing you could do at this level is get it in a newbee racers head that he has to watch out for the front runners and get out of the way.
Id suggest what will happpen is complete and utter carnage.
The newbee will indeed avoid the lead bike but most likely take out the number 2 and 3 bike doing so.
The best thing --again AT THIS LEVEL is to make it clear -dont look back and stick to your line.


I must say this is why I STRONGLY advocate anyone wanting to go racing to do a couple of trackdays first.

[driftn]

Isnt there a flag to let the slower rider know that some body is coming up behind? if this is used correctly there should be no problem

Way I see it if you stick to your line the people lapping are clearly good enough to know how to pass safely. Cant see the issue myself.
and for the record I have been lapped by a few people last year and I dont think they had any drama's getting past my big fat arse. (the bikes not mine)

[Kiwi Graham]

Its the faster guys resposibility to pass the slower guy, if a blue flag is waved its to inform the slower guy there is a faster guy about to make a pass, general rule is to hold you line. Big speed differences can cause big problems but its still the guy passing that has to make the pass and not the slower guy 'getting out of the way' that way there is no confusion about who has to do what, when or where.

Its been mentioned about the slow group on track days, the emphasis has always been for the overtaking rider to have resposibility to make the pass, and some insist on no overtaking on the inside of a corner!

[Dreama]

Lappers are always going to be an issue but it's simply another interesting part of a race, whether you're the one getting lapped or the one passing. It adds a skill to both parties and certainly factors in stategies for the fast boys.
If the attitude is taken that slower riders ( I don't mean novices etc) should be removed from National rounds then it's pretty obvious what the result will be ..... oh, wait a minute ...... it's happened.
A few years ago I was lapping at 1.04's (ok .... high 4's) at Puke and got lapped by Stroudy, Ray Clee and Shawn Giles in the Jennian Homes sweeper.
( BTW ..... not quite ...I did my job cos Stroudy and Ray got past but Shawn Giles didn't until the back straight ... possibly a factor in keeping the title in NZ cos Giles (from Oz) never made up the lost ground ;) )
However, even though Ray's passing manouvre was dodgy, it didn't faze me and I just stuck to my line. But, apparently it looked a bit scarey cos and myself and the riders behind me got black flagged.
Needless to say I was not overly impressed and strangely enough have never entered a national round since.
Getting lapped is a bit depressing, but if the top boys are doing extremely fast 58's, then anyone doing a very respectable 1.03 is going to get lapped every 12 laps, simple maths but it in no way makes the lapped rider incompetant. (my excuse anyway ... slow bike :crybaby:)
For example, in the 2001 36 lap Superbike race at Puke I just avoided getting lapped for the THIRD time ......... and came 5th.
Not sure if I have made a point, but I don't think it's an issue that should be changed because all it will do will deplete already depleted fields.

[GSVR]

Excellent post Dreama.

This is quite relevant with the proposed privateer rules for Supersport.

I think the rules are bang on despite the objections on "sound technical grounds". If people have to run standard suspension they will have to run harder tyres etc. A skilled rider will still be able to produce reasonable laptimes but no where near as fast as a bike set up with great suspension and very sticky tyres.

Thats brings me to what I consider the most compelling reason not to allow the proposed rules to be pasted (get the pun). There will be a huge increase in the amount of lapped riders if lots of reasonably fast clubracers decide to have a crack at this class.

The situation at the moment is we just don't have enough national level pace riders competing or actually just riders competing. So whats the answer? Import more Ozzys! Don't know the answer but its good to knock around ideas.

[tas152]

Excellent post Dreama.

This is quite relevant with the proposed privateer rules for Supersport.

I think the rules are bang on despite the objections on "sound technical grounds". If people have to run standard suspension they will have to run harder tyres etc. A skilled rider will still be able to produce reasonable laptimes but no where near as fast as a bike set up with great suspension and very sticky tyres.

Thats brings me to what I consider the most compelling reason not to allow the proposed rules to be pasted (get the pun). There will be a huge increase in the amount of lapped riders if lots of reasonably fast clubracers decide to have a crack at this class.

The situation at the moment is we just don't have enough national level pace riders competing or actually just riders competing. So whats the answer? Import more Ozzys! Don't know the answer but its good to knock around ideas.

The SPORTS PRODUCTION REGULATIONS/STOCK PRODUCTION Cup.(i.e. 600's) proposed rule changes have been updated 30/04/09 and the stock production cup now allows suspension changes. It's up on www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz now.

[GSVR]

Thanks. I should keep more of an eye on the MNZ site.

Not sure of the benefit of another 600 class if the rules are going to so close to what already exists.

[svracer12]

when it comes to our training down here alot of new riders are often very afraid of the possibility of getting laps. the easiest way for me to reassure them is that if someones fast enough to lap you then they must know what there doing so just sick to your line and you will be fine. I am still undecided on the blue flag approach as i have seen good and bad come from it, trust me its scary when someone sees the blue flag and drastically changes their line mid corner when you are already committed to the pass. and im sorry to say it but almost every race here is someone will be getting lapped.

[Trudes]

I can only speak from a bucket racing perspective, but I get lapped all the time (no worries, doesn't bother me, I'm getting better :whistle:) Anyway I always used to stick to my line, figured if they're good enough to be lapping me then they should be good enough to pass me safely.
However I've been knocked off my bike twice by someone passing me, so that makes me a little aware of folks lapping me, that and I constantly get comments that I'm "a bitch to pass". So I've started to feel a little more like if you're lapping me you ARE a lot faster than me and I don't want to fuck up your race by me getting in your way, so now I tend to try and make a bit of room for the lappers (this is made easier if someone is waving a blue flag at me, but alas this does not always happen in buckets here), however if I'm trying to hold you off from passing me because you are behind me in the race then tough shit, find some extra balls and pass me if you can (mwhahahaha). Anyway, back to your talk about big boys and girls races.....

[Racey Rider]

Another safety issue to be thought about, is that habit some of us have of trying to warm up tyres/brakes in the warm up lap by flying down the straights and then braking abruptly halfway down the straight.
Often the person behind you isn't paying attention (it's only warm up lap), and doesn't expect someone to brake hard at that point on the straights. I have seen some close calls, and have stopped that practice myself.

Racey

[Two Smoker]

Thanks. I should keep more of an eye on the MNZ site.

Not sure of the benefit of another 600 class if the rules are going to so close to what already exists.

Its to have a seperate champonship within the race. i.e one for privateers, and one for factory.

I agree with Jay and Glen. Both explained well!

Cheers, Chris

[neil_cb125t]

I have had both bad and good scenarios for lapping riders.

A} Bad, I have been clipped was ill being lapped while riding an RG150 in F3. went for the biggest skate of my life - from that they banned Street stock riders from F3.

B} Good, they can be used to put between you and the guy behind you or slow a person your chasing.

It is part of racing that everyone will end up doing one day ( sounds real bad but you want to get to the point were your up the front, and there will always be someone learning to race )

Manfield is very bad for it because of the straights that have key corners in between them so if you dont pass easily you can blow the sweeper or higgins slowing you down alot for the lap.

I believe that the Formula classes need to stay indpendant ie i shouldn't take my ZXR400 out in F3 and F2 - don't think the top 600 guys would like having to pass me anywhere let alone lap me. Same could be said about F2 and F1 - a learner on a 600 would have a huge speed diff to Mr Sheriffs on a CBr1000. If only we had enough 1000's

[scrivy]

Maybe what we do is dangerous afterall??!! :yes:

In my opinion, having a 115% or whatever cutoff rule wont reduce the risk to fast riders.

Lets say everyone qualifies at 100% of their ability.
Come a race, how many times are you let down by having an incorrect tyre pressure, a wrong tyre choice, a wrong suspension setting, an engine missing like hell, a fueling problem, or some other part that doesn't want to play ball during a race? I'm picking you will all say a few times? So what then? You certainly wont be within 115% of the fastest riders time! So yes you will be getting lapped - even if you were a front runner in qualifying.
Also, what happens when a top rider has to start from the dummy grid, or from the back row due to probs in qualifying? He then has to force his way through the field - again exposing himself to greater risks. This is also the case when a front runner spears off and has to regain the track and fight back.

One thing I've also learnt with my racing, is that even the top guys don't always take similar lines, and can cause crashes in a bunch.
Also, one thing that terrifies me, is that anyone can pay lots of money for a top machine - and be on the pace - but without having too much experience. They are more of a threat/danger to me than me passing a slower backmarker!! Ask Sidecar Bob how close we were to being taken out at the end of Pukies backstraight, at around the 250km mark!! Dramatically changing lines at the braking markers with someone about to do an inside pass on you is a tad more dangerous than passing a slower rider coming out of an 80km corner! (You tend to pack more into your undies!!)

I know I'll prob get flack over this, but having longer races just ads to the risks of lapping slower riders. If races were shorter, then there would be less chance of a rider being lapped. It might just be better for spectators to watch also, as currently, after 6 laps the pecking order has usually been achieved, and spectators have switched off due to a no dicing situation.
Bring back the sprint races!! :whistle:

Would people prefer to do 3x6 lap sprint races, or 2x10 lap races?

Scrivy

[scrivy]

Another safety issue to be thought about, is that habit some of us have of trying to warm up tyres/brakes in the warm up lap by flying down the straights and then braking abruptly halfway down the straight.
Often the person behind you isn't paying attention (it's only warm up lap), and doesn't expect someone to brake hard at that point on the straights. I have seen some close calls, and have stopped that practice myself.

Racey

Again, this wouldnt be dangerous if the person doing so actually looked behind before completing the act!

Unfortunately it is not a requirement for riders to undergo an I.Q. test prior to getting their licence!!
I have seen a few people throw it away in the warm up lap (and the cool down lap), and from memory even Colin Edwards did on his Honda Superbike many years ago!

[slowpoke]

Sure, there have been some hairy passing manoeuver's while lapping riders, but that doesn't make them much different to many other passing manouever's.

As long as the 115% rule is adhered too I don't see too much of a problem.

From someone who is mid-pack and still getting up to speed I think some people lose sight of exactly how little is involved to be a few seconds off the pace. Take Taupo for example, you only have to be getting on the picks 0.2 of a second (the blink of an eye really) too early then picking up the throttle 0.2 of a second late on every corner, combined with the resulting slower speeds down the straight and you are 6 seconds off the fast fucker at the front. Throw in a not quite up to the minute bike, or running not ideal or used new tyres, or never ridden that particular track, and you could easily be 8-10seconds slower. That sounds like a lot but it only takes fractions of a second here and there.

It's tough getting up to speed, trying to find the dribs and drabs of time that slip through your fingers. But the last thing you need is some dis-incentive to not step up. Just look at this time last year, round 1 at Taupo:
Jimmy Dalton on pole in 1m 34 with the likes of Derek Macadam, Eddie, Rob Jackson, Tony O'keefe, Craig Frethey, Glen Skachill in midfield between 6.8 and 10seconds off the pace. These guys have all become or were National level riders, in some cases even winning National events so are no mugs.

I get a bit angry with myself for not making the improvements I'd like, or when I get lapped by Mr Shirriffs or Stroud, or Jones. But I have to keep telling myself, I'm not chasing the 10 seconds I am from the front runner, I'm chasing those blinks of an eye on corner entry and exit. And while I look up to Tony and Eddie and Craig Frethey now, (and then!) I've gotta keep telling myself I'm exactly where they were last year (Edit: comparing my best warmed up afternoon lap time with their worst cold morning straight off the trailer qualifying time, so not fair comparison). But the last thing racers like me need is some tosser saying that because world class riders like Stroud, Jones and Shirriffs are lapping me I shouldn't have a crack, quite frankly you can go and get fucked.

Lapping is a part of virtually every motorsport event and to try and run races without it, or make it more complicated than it is, is an exercise in futility and will only result in fewer people prepared to front up.

Just enforce the 115% rule and get on with it.

[Tony.OK]

Oi...............er umm
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=822217

With ya completely Spud...............I'd like to see the blue flags used but with proper instruction on what to do if you see one.
To me if you are shown the blue there are 2 possible scenarios,

1- shown a blue on a straight..............then you hold your line and speed but ya should have time for a sneaky peek to see where the leaders are, and if well back then allow them to pass before the next corner.

2- shown a blue coming into a corner..........hold your racing line and speed but stay on the inside when exiting the turn, that'll allow the leaders to pass on the outside and you won't bugger them up by running wide coming out.

Thats my take anyhoo's.

[slowpoke]

Oi...............er umm
http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=822217

With ya completely Spud...............I'd like to see the blue flags used but with proper instruction on what to do if you see one.
To me if you are shown the blue there are 2 possible scenarios,

1- shown a blue on a straight..............then you hold your line and speed but ya should have time for a sneaky peek to see where the leaders are, and if well back then allow them to pass before the next corner.

2- shown a blue coming into a corner..........hold your racing line and speed but stay on the inside when exiting the turn, that'll allow the leaders to pass on the outside and you won't bugger them up by running wide coming out.

Thats my take anyhoo's.

Sorry mate, I only looked at the qualifying times, http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=818420 it wasn't fair of me to compare your qualifying time straight off the trailer on a cold track with my best time, set after racing during the day, and on a warm track.

I should have known I was slower than that, haha.

Hey, if you rock up to Taupo you are more than welcome to sneak on my leathers and set a new PB for me. In fact if you do it during this new LG thingy I'll split the winnings with ya!

[roadracingoldfart]

Hey, if you rock up to Taupo you are more than welcome to sneak on my leathers and set a new PB for me. In fact if you do it during this new LG thingy I'll split the winnings with ya!



I smell a scam brewing :bash:

Are we going to have to implement retina scaning to verify riders now ???

[roadracingoldfart]

Are lapped riders the most important safety issue for riders what else is there?


Hell no , there are much more important issues to cover before we worry about a lapped rider situation.
After all , this is racing , there has to be a fast and a slow and a middle speed.

I fully agree with Glen W in his post , ok and Jay as well :pinch: :whistle:
If you are going to be passed by a faster rider in my opinion the blue flag can be a fly in the ointment as the slower rider may become eratic , looking for you and moving around thinking they are doing the best they can , in fact they can sometimes make the faster rider have to re-select the route through the corner and yet still try to defend from a possible second faster rider. I have seen this a few times and it gets messy , mainly for the 2 faster riders and yet the slower one will get grief for it , thats unfair.

But hey , what do i know , im retired :bash: or is there an "a & d " missing in that jumble of letters .?

Paul.

[GSVR]

Its to have a seperate champonship within the race. i.e one for privateers, and one for factory.

I agree with Jay and Glen. Both explained well!

Cheers, Chris

Was trying to point out what are the benefits of running a championship within a championship if the 2 classes of bike are so close to being the same.

I don't see any huge differences now the proposed rules have been ammended.

Whats to stop a factory supported rider running in this class if their bike complies? And the word privateers has been removed to avoid the any confusion now.

Threadswas to explore the potentual risks of running a slower class in with one thats say 4 or 5 seconds a lap faster.


Thanks for the posts everyone this has been an interesting read.

[Tony.OK]

Sorry mate, I only looked at the qualifying times, http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=818420 it wasn't fair of me to compare your qualifying time straight off the trailer on a cold track with my best time, set after racing during the day, and on a warm track.

I should have known I was slower than that, haha.

Hey, if you rock up to Taupo you are more than welcome to sneak on my leathers and set a new PB for me. In fact if you do it during this new LG thingy I'll split the winnings with ya!
Hahaa..................no worries at all my friend, I only got 1 lap in during qual and my battery died:Oops:

I smell a scam brewing :bash:

Are we going to have to implement retina scaning to verify riders now ???

Nah............the difference in belly size would be enough to give me away:crazy:

[Billy]

Hell no , there are much more important issues to cover before we worry about a lapped rider situation.
After all , this is racing , there has to be a fast and a slow and a middle speed.

I fully agree with Glen W in his post , ok and Jay as well :pinch: :whistle:
If you are going to be passed by a faster rider in my opinion the blue flag can be a fly in the ointment as the slower rider may become eratic , looking for you and moving around thinking they are doing the best they can , in fact they can sometimes make the faster rider have to re-select the route through the corner and yet still try to defend from a possible second faster rider. I have seen this a few times and it gets messy , mainly for the 2 faster riders and yet the slower one will get grief for it , thats unfair.

But hey , what do i know , im retired :bash: or is there an "a & d " missing in that jumble of letters .?

Paul.

Yip,Agree 100%,The best thing you can do when being lapped is nothing,Just carry on as normal and the faster guys will get round you,The WORST thing you can do is try and change your line mid corner

Oh and yeah,Why did you leave the a&d out.LOL

[Two Smoker]

Was trying to point out what are the benefits of running a championship within a championship if the 2 classes of bike are so close to being the same.

I don't see any huge differences now the proposed rules have been ammended.

Whats to stop a factory supported rider running in this class if their bike complies? And the word privateers has been removed to avoid the any confusion now.

Threadswas to explore the potentual risks of running a slower class in with one thats say 4 or 5 seconds a lap faster.


Thanks for the posts everyone this has been an interesting read.

The original idea was to keep the same rules and run two different championships within. If he is a factory supported rider, then he isnt a privateer is he?

This is an idea to benefit the racers that are 3-4 seconds of front runner pace. This means those riders are still within 115%.

[Biggles08]

I believe it really is not an issue if the lapped riders are within a certain percentage of the frontrunners...whether that is 107% or 115% its not really an issue. As a lapped rider in the most recent round of the Nats at Puke, I was lapped about at the 14 lap mark and was blue flagged at Castrol. I still gunned it as best I could down the back straight and knew I had riders right behind me so I simply took a slightly wider, non agressive line into the hairpin allowing the faster riders to out brake me on the inside into the hairpin. No issue here (apart from the commentator saying some stupid thing like "look at the speed difference between the lapped riders and the lead guys" when I clearly was giving way at this point...grrrrrr!).

In the TT race I was lapped just before going over the hill and this could have been messy had I not kept a cool head. I was un-aware that there was such a big group fighting for the lead and I must admit it was a bit hair rasing as 5-6 bikes went past me on all sides as we were exiting the hill....but fuck what a rush!!!!

I think where the issue is is when inexperienced riders a) are not going fast enough and b) when they panic as they see the blue flag.

The best thing a lapped rider can do is really do nothing out of the ordinary but ALSO not run defensive lines. The fast guys are the ones that need to manage the overtaking in a safe manner...they don't want to crash either.

If a lapped rider is obviously not up to the challenge of keeping pace it is then up to the officials to black flag them for the saftey of everyone.

my 2c anyway...and coming from a lapped rider, I didn't mind getting lapped it allowed me to ride for half a lap behind the fast guys :-D

[Quasievil]

At Wanganui in the last lap of one of the races I was lapped by Darryl Atkins which would be expected, I was certainly more than 115% slower than him so was a large percetage of the field, I havent been lapped proir to or since, however would that be fair to exclude so much of the feild due to one rider being of international standard (2nd in the usa) it would be akin to perhaps (bit of a stretch) Rossi coming to compete at the nationals in f1.
So what do yas propose in this case.

EDIT actually just checked Atkins qualified at 53.74 mulitply that by 115% would cut the feild off at 1.01.35 (I did 1.01.75) so I would be out, but so would 11 other riders

if relating to a usual NZ competiting Top rider Stephen Briggs 54.776 qualifying, the feild would be cut off at 1.02.99 I would be in and 5 would be out.

So the top international rider cost 6 racers their day racing, fair ?

[Biggles08]

At Wanganui in the last lap of one of the races I was lapped by Darryl Atkins which would be expected, I was certainly more than 115% slower than him so was a large percetage of the field, I havent been lapped proir to or since, however would that be fair to exclude so much of the feild due to one rider being of international standard (2nd in the usa) it would be akin to perhaps (bit of a stretch) Rossi coming to compete at the nationals in f1.
So what do yas propose in this case.


Would be interesting to see just how many people were actually 115% slower than him Quasi....and if he is 'one out of the ordinary' I guess organizers will look at the second faster rider in cases such as this.

[Quasievil]

Would be interesting to see just how many people were actually 115% slower than him Quasi....and if he is 'one out of the ordinary' I guess organizers will look at the second faster rider in cases such as this.

Yes I guess so, Interestingly had he run in the Robert Holden, he would have been running between Hayden Fitzgerald and Sloane Frost (based on his best time in race two) he didnt run in it but it would have been a hell of a spectacle if he did !!

[Wingnut]

Yes I guess so, Interestingly had he run in the Robert Holden, he would have been running between Hayden Fitzgerald and Sloane Frost (based on his best time in race two) he didnt run in it but it would have been a hell of a spectacle if he did !!

Was it his own choice to obstain from entering in the Robert Holden?

[cowpoos]

Hey, if you rock up to Taupo you are more than welcome to sneak on my leathers and set a new PB for me. In fact if you do it during this new LG thingy I'll split the winnings with ya!

erm...erm...**cough** **cough**...erm erm!! :whistle:

[Quasievil]

Was it his own choice to obstain from entering in the Robert Holden?

As I understand it yes, but really I dont know that for sure, it was the word amongst the riders anyway

[Tony.OK]

erm...erm...**cough** **cough**...erm erm!! :whistle:

Ya got somethin stuck in your throat Poos?.......................gettin rid of the suzookie flem to ride a Honda:whistle:

[slowpoke]

Yes I guess so, Interestingly had he run in the Robert Holden, he would have been running between Hayden Fitzgerald and Sloane Frost (based on his best time in race two) he didnt run in it but it would have been a hell of a spectacle if he did !!


Was it his own choice to obstain from entering in the Robert Holden?

Would have been good viewing alright, but his backin' it in style might have caused a few problems. That's been the issue with motards vs road racers in the past, although if there's one guy who can do it in a controlled manner it would be him.

He is a pretty exceptional rider but Stroudy could be considered a road racing equivalent with his 3 AMA Formula Extreme titles, back when the series was pretty strong. He's almost part of the furniture in NZ and we forget just how good he, and the guys who match it with him, are.

[j-lo69]

The thing is, this is club racing, let's be honest.

Only the very fastest of riders end up lapping others and those that do, are skilled and experienced enough to do it safely and without fuss.

no matter how good you are you still cant read minds

[White trash]

no matter how good you are you still cant read minds
A very good point, however I don't remember ever seeing your good self have much of an issue getting 'round lappers, and you've had a bit of practice at it.

It's also the same for every single racer regardless of whether they're Ben Spies or Sam Smith, lapped riders are by definition unpredictable due to the fact they've got a brain of their own.