Another new class. 250s! [Archive]

White trash

1st May 2009, 15:42

FROSTY

1st May 2009, 15:51

GSVR

1st May 2009, 15:51

Yeap I like this one too. They will combine better than the 250 fours with streetstock and could be run as a class within a class at club level.

White trash

1st May 2009, 15:53

Sketchy_Racer

1st May 2009, 16:00

gatch

1st May 2009, 17:36

I can see honda spada's winning this hands down, provided you can get a fresh motor..

Lol this has to happen AFTER I start to busy my spada chassis for a different powerplant..

Edit - What an awesome idea though. Good work MNZ.

FROSTY

1st May 2009, 17:36

Rules out the GPX250 as well

Billy

1st May 2009, 17:52

Harvd

1st May 2009, 17:55

Rules out the GPX250 as well

What does? trye size?

This does seem like a good way of doing things as they would be pretty compareable pacewise and pricewise to the rg150 aswell for the ugly looking ones.

Better than the il4s because they just a bit too much of an investment for us young fullas to afford to keep on a track. Not as fast but meh.

FROSTY

1st May 2009, 18:04

Just saw this.FUKEN AWESOME,About time somebody initiated a class like this,sure it needs some fine tuning but thats what the submission process is about.If you think something needs changing,Contact them and let them know along with your reasons.Im sure they will be open too sensible suggestions
NO NO NO Billy thats not the KB way.
Lets kick it and bitch and winge about it then say that the XVX250 has an unfair advantage before its even got off the ground.

Yep I agree its a fantastic class idea and ruling out the fours means the hp is pretty similar to rg150

FROSTY

1st May 2009, 18:09

Can I suggest using KB as a supply of info before submitting any proposed changes.
A list of otherwise elligable bikes and their tyre sizes
I have
GPX250 rear 130/80/16 front 100/80/16
Spada 250 140/70/17 rear 100/70/17 front

sinfull

1st May 2009, 18:23

Great Idea Im orf to get me a hyubag 250

er um trashy methinks the rules might need at least one tweak.
But TYRE size rule is gonna need work. Given the factory tyre size on the hyobag. -Unless the plan is to exclude em I think the kwakka runs a 150 rear doesnt it?

Just saw this.FUKEN AWESOME,About time somebody initiated a class like this,sure it needs some fine tuning but thats what the submission process is about.If you think something needs changing,Contact them and let them know along with your reasons.Im sure they will be open too sensible suggestions

Sugestions be damned ! I sugest we throw a test together !
Scorpios at dawn on the 11th at manfield Billy !
Anyone else that might fit this class are wellcome to join in the fun !!!

Ummm i am a little worried bout the Factory tyres on my scorpio though, I say change em ! (i won't protest if you don't !)

Ok ok i'll go back and read the proposed rules now ! But who am i to ask for directions ? Wonder if it is eligable haha cool, motard it, Kids'll love me !

Robert Taylor

1st May 2009, 18:56

Looks good, a couple things,

1: Who ever wrote that clearly didn't pass primary school english or was in a big rush to do those changes, I failed high school english and can certainly do better than that.

2: Why on earth do you need a steering damper on a 250? Is it to control that socket-tearing power they have? If you have stability issues on a little bike like that you have a problem, fix it, don't mask it with a steering damper!

3: Tyre size rule is not very well thought out, that needs to be changed to "Tyres must be of manufacturer recommended sizes. Tyres must be DOT approved" As with those tyre rules that takes out bikes like the Hyosung as there recommended is 150 or 160 section tyres and also the ZXR250s with their 4.00x18" rear rims which should have a 140 - 150 section tyre on them.

Glen thats a good point about steering dampers. Very often they get fitted as a band aid rather than sorting out geometry and suspension issues causing the instability. However they are always a good ''backup'' if you run off the track into ruts or whatever, or you get clipped by another rider. The steering damper may just save you falling off.
It will be interesting to see how much support this class will get.

Billy

1st May 2009, 19:26

Sugestions be damned ! I sugest we throw a test together !
Scorpios at dawn on the 11th at manfield Billy !
Anyone else that might fit this class are wellcome to join in the fun !!!
Dawn!!WTF Sorry mate!I dont do dawn,What about lunchtime when its not so cold???And what the fux a scorpio?I assume we are still talking motorcycles here

sinfull

1st May 2009, 19:47

Dawn!!WTF Sorry mate!I dont do dawn,What about lunchtime when its not so cold???
Yeah sweet as !! Prolly take the Mrs that long to ride her Scorpio Z there !!

And what the fux a scorpio?I assume we are still talking motorcycles here
Mmmmmate you'll never appreciate brunch, till ya tried to make breakfast on a Scorpio !

k14

1st May 2009, 19:57

Is it also necessary to allow wets? If you have to use dot approved tyres why not make it so that they have to run on these tyres in the wet or dry? Allowing wets is a big expense, how much is a spare set of rims for a hyosung 250??

Edit: Also good to see traction control is banned... Might limit the field a bit though, not sure if many people will be able to handle the 30hp without some rider aids :Oops:

jrandom

1st May 2009, 20:20

Scorpios at dawn

I'm still working on that one.

Shaun

2nd May 2009, 10:46

Good on ya for this one MNZ,

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/250cc_Prolight_twins_Street_stock%20_May_2009.pdf

Excellent decision.

All you punks with Hyosung 250s, Ninja 250s and GSX250s get your backside trackside.

I hope like hell this goes ahead and is incorporated in our Nationals next year.

Make em short races, have 25 bikes on the grid and lets get more people excited about our sport.

Some one's stupid knee jerk reaction as a way of trying to fix current problems.

we have Pro twin and F3 already for new bees, as well as 125, this is just another KIWI CHEEP FIX, and it will actually only bring the level of the nationals standard down even lower than where it is now.

This type of thing, should be club scene focused as a learner class, NOT A _UCKIN National event

Billy

2nd May 2009, 11:27

Some one's stupid knee jerk reaction as a way of trying to fix current problems.

we have Pro twin and F3 already for new bees, as well as 125, this is just another KIWI CHEEP FIX, and it will actually only bring the level of the nationals standard down even lower than where it is now.

This type of thing, should be club scene focused as a learner class, NOT A _UCKIN National event

Na,Disagree completely,While you can build a Pro twins bike for around $4000.00 if you want too win theres always gonna be some 1 like Sam who will spend whatever it takes too win,Likewise F3 and its unrealistic to expect a 13-14yr old to run a 125.I also think the plan with this class would be to replace the current 150 class in time as the bikes are getting old and harder too get parts for.Your idea too trial it at club level holds merit but if someone like Peter Jones(Oyster) gets hold of it theres no question in my mind it would be a success.I think if its gonna be a national championship ,It should be restricted too 17 or maybe at the most 20 yr olds but with provisions at club level to allow more experienced riders to ride within the feid as observers like they do in the south island currently

unrealone

2nd May 2009, 12:03

Looks like a crapier version of Vic Clubs new 250 class (built off running the Street Stock 250 last year).

I agree with Shaun in that it should be kept at club level. Especially as most of you say it'd be a great class for newbies to learn in.

Shaun

2nd May 2009, 12:05

Na,Disagree completely,While you can build a Pro twins bike for around $4000.00 if you want too win theres always gonna be some 1 like Sam who will spend whatever it takes too win,Likewise F3 and its unrealistic to expect a 13-14yr old to run a 125.I also think the plan with this class would be to replace the current 150 class in time as the bikes are getting old and harder too get parts for.Your idea too trial it at club level holds merit but if someone like Peter Jones(Oyster) gets hold of it theres no question in my mind it would be a success.I think if its gonna be a national championship ,It should be restricted too 17 or maybe at the most 20 yr olds but with provisions at club level to allow more experienced riders to ride within the feid as observers like they do in the south island currently

Unrealistic Re 13 or 14 year old on a 125? eh what, how do they all afford MOTO X bikes then

This calss is an OYSTER special class, and a learning class.

NOT ONE FOR TRYING TO IMPROVE THE NATIONALS THOUGH.

all it is going to do, is introduce another class to cause problems with, leave it in the CLUB SCENE where development always starts from- JUST like you and your career in the VIC CLUB series many moons back, where WE OLD buggers ALL came from!

Billy, Brian Bernard, Aaron Slight, Simon Crafer, Andrew Stroud bla bla

It needs ONE season in the club scene to work it out, and to see how the field size is going to look, then WE can go to the MOTO X scene and steal some riders and with mum and dads chq books that do not want to walk around in MUD all day long any more.

Billy

2nd May 2009, 12:16

Unrealistic Re 13 or 14 year old on a 125? eh what, how do they all afford MOTO X bikes then

This calss is an OYSTER special class, and a learning class.

NOT ONE FOR TRYING TO IMPROVE THE NATIONALS THOUGH.

all it is going to do, is introduce another class to cause problems with, leave it in the CLUB SCENE where development always starts from- JUST like you and your career in the VIC CLUB series many moons back, where WE OLD buggers ALL came from!

Billy, Brian Bernard, Aaron Slight, Simon Crafer, Andrew Stroud bla bla

It needs ONE season in the club scene to work it out, and to see how the field size is going to look, then WE can go to the MOTO X scene and steal some riders and with mum and dads chq books that do not want to walk around in MUD all day long any more.

Well we never were gonna agree on everything as we both suffer from shortmans disease and are old and grumpy(well you are anyway)And theres no need too shout.

However I do agree with the last paragraph

Shaun

2nd May 2009, 12:37

Well we never were gonna agree on everything as we both suffer from shortmans disease and are old and grumpy(well you are anyway)And theres no need too shout.

However I do agree with the last paragraph

TRUE THAT!

We need to find out what is controlling the fire

Not throw more logs on to burn

nsrpaul

2nd May 2009, 20:41

looks like the chance to finally be able to have a compeditive machine for cheep!!

pro twins is still 10g plus really, most of ithe guys down our way are spending 2-3g on suspension alone, I love my 125 but would buy one of these in a second if there were other old buggers racing

Shaun

2nd May 2009, 22:00

Na,Disagree completely,

Your idea too trial it at club level holds merit but if someone like Peter Jones(Oyster) gets hold of it theres no question in my mind it would be a success.I think if its gonna be a national championship ,It should be restricted too 17 or maybe at the most 20 yr olds but with provisions at club level to allow more experienced riders to ride within the feid as observers like they do in the south island currently

Re what you said here,

,It should be restricted too 17 or maybe at the most 20 yr olds but with provisions at club level to allow more experienced riders to ride within the feid as observers like they do in the south island currently[/QUOTE]

Sorry for strong negatives about this Earlier:Oops:

I can see huge positives to this class strutcure " As you have outlined above" ONLY though.

motorcyclesonline.net

2nd May 2009, 22:24

What a good idea
I have a fleet of ZZR250's I can supply - check out the HP of these puppies

I'm off to get my stomach staple job done asap so I can match you teenage mutants in the power to weight ratio

Bill Mason - Recycled Teenager
www.motorcyclesonline.net

budda

2nd May 2009, 22:40

Just saw this.FUKEN AWESOME,About time somebody initiated a class like this,sure it needs some fine tuning but thats what the submission process is about.If you think something needs changing,Contact them and let them know along with your reasons.Im sure they will be open too sensible suggestions

How good IS your memory Billy ? I recolect this being discussed at the Teretonga Meeting in 2004, and at several bench racing session before and since then ........ Intriguing to see who the various posters are thanking .......

Billy

3rd May 2009, 00:29

How good IS your memory Billy ? I recolect this being discussed at the Teretonga Meeting in 2004, and at several bench racing session before and since then ........ Intriguing to see who the various posters are thanking .......

Yeah Well,
Its not a perfect world eh!!Still as long as it goes ahead Im happy and besides that,We know we were years ahead so who cares

vtec

3rd May 2009, 04:44

I think it's brilliant, and could be run as a sideshow at the Nationals, to get exposure to the passion of motorcycle racing and something just about anyone could afford.

I personally much prefer riding the inline 4's of old, but they are rare and getting more expensive.

Also, these bikes are far safer for learning the skills on and far more affordable to crash. This is all good stuff.

cowpoos

3rd May 2009, 11:44

Good on ya for this one MNZ,

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/250cc_Prolight_twins_Street_stock%20_May_2009.pdf

Excellent decision.

All you punks with Hyosung 250s, Ninja 250s and GSX250s get your backside trackside.

I hope like hell this goes ahead and is incorporated in our Nationals next year.

Make em short races, have 25 bikes on the grid and lets get more people excited about our sport.
and lookie what some good bugger has done on trademe!!!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-216517658.htm

cowpoos

3rd May 2009, 13:38

I think adding single cyclinder 250 four strokes would be a good benifit aswell. often not as powerful as the twins...but mostly lighter. would be compeditive I would imagine.

xwhatsit

3rd May 2009, 15:48

I think adding single cyclinder 250 four strokes would be a good benifit aswell. often not as powerful as the twins...but mostly lighter. would be compeditive I would imagine.
Not too many around any more. Something like an NZ250 would cut it but there's nothing like that any more. CBF250 is less powerful and heavier than a 30 year old CB250RS, Scorpio is light but at 225ccs simply doesn't go fast enough, SR250 pretty much the same as a GN250 etc. I think the SRX250s have a bit more poke?

All the modern development of 250 singles has gone into chook chasers. A WR250... I don't think you could touch that even with a GPX250. I think the tyre rules would prevent a `motard' from running though?

cowpoos

3rd May 2009, 16:02

Not too many around any more. Something like an NZ250 would cut it but there's nothing like that any more. CBF250 is less powerful and heavier than a 30 year old CB250RS, Scorpio is light but at 225ccs simply doesn't go fast enough, SR250 pretty much the same as a GN250 etc. I think the SRX250s have a bit more poke?

All the modern development of 250 singles has gone into chook chasers. A WR250... I don't think you could touch that even with a GPX250. I think the tyre rules would prevent a `motard' from running though?
I would happily punt a nz250, cbx250 ,cbr250 rs against the new ones...they all weigh next to nothing...and resonably peppy!! be theres a few broken arse ones on trademe from time to time...cheaper than a hyosung,vtr250 etc

scracha

3rd May 2009, 17:14

Something positive for a change eh! Good stuff.

Kickaha

3rd May 2009, 17:56

I would happily punt a nz250, cbx250 ,cbr250 rs against the new ones...they all weigh next to nothing...and resonably peppy!! be theres a few broken arse ones on trademe from time to time...cheaper than a hyosung,vtr250 etc

You'd look good on a GN250:whistle:

cowpoos

3rd May 2009, 18:08

You'd look good on a GN250:whistle:
You'd look good if you went on a diet!

svr

3rd May 2009, 19:01

Anyone know what the best 250 twin would be? I imagine a couple of hp would be decisive...

gatch

3rd May 2009, 19:24

Anyone know what the best 250 twin would be? I imagine a couple of hp would be decisive...

honda spada, hands down

cowpoos

3rd May 2009, 20:00

Anyone know what the best 250 twin would be? I imagine a couple of hp would be decisive...
the 1988-1998 gpx250 [more powerful and ligher than current flashy ninja 250]
Vt 250 spada, vtr250f...those would be my guess's...based on weight and HP...all of the about weight less than new 250 twins and make the same or more HP.

ducatilover

6th May 2009, 22:43

Anyone know what the best 250 twin would be? I imagine a couple of hp would be decisive...

spada = 40hp/28nm
vt250f2 = 43hp and no torque. not that it matters. :argh:

steveyb

7th May 2009, 09:31

Don't y'all forget the first sentence in the rule there.

My feeling is that bikes like Spada 250 would be classed as a Grey Import and therefore not 'homologated'???

Enjoy

ducatilover

7th May 2009, 12:06

Don't y'all forget the first sentence in the rule there.

My feeling is that bikes like Spada 250 would be classed as a Grey Import and therefore not 'homologated'???

Enjoy

Shit I didn't read that part. :pinch:

Shaun

7th May 2009, 12:39

Don't y'all forget the first sentence in the rule there.

My feeling is that bikes like Spada 250 would be classed as a Grey Import and therefore not 'homologated'???

Enjoy

ALSO, this is NOT even a genuine thing yet? It could change after the AGM, as per the current idea RE different set up levels for class within a class racing Superbike and 600 rules etc

Paul Stewart has written the new rules, but they still might get changed after the AGM?

Who Know's really

cowpoos

7th May 2009, 18:01

Don't y'all forget the first sentence in the rule there.

My feeling is that bikes like Spada 250 would be classed as a Grey Import and therefore not 'homologated'???

Enjoy
I'm pretty sure spada's [or same bike different name] was avalible in NZ new. Not sure about GPX or vtr250f's

ducatilover

7th May 2009, 21:14

I'm pretty sure spada's [or same bike different name] was avalible in NZ new. Not sure about GPX or vtr250f's

nah spada was aussie, nip land and europe. :crazy:

Hopefully that doesn't get made as a rule, I wouldn't mind getting beaten. :Oops:

nsrpaul

24th May 2009, 19:51

wheres this at

going to be a runner in the south island??

chaos rider

28th May 2009, 12:11

Kevin G

28th May 2009, 12:33

whoa there....slow up. They are proposed rules and are open for you to have your say.

If you want to have some input write your proposed ammenments etc and send to the MNZ office (see the MNZ website for contact details)

R6_kid

28th May 2009, 13:10

man i have a few gripes with the rules, i bet whoever wrote them didnt even check the specks on the bikes eligible for this class.

no mention of carbon fiber mufflers
or cdi units

so what does that mean i can mod these or not

tire sizes is that min or max sizes allowed? hyo don't like small tires :cry:

250 ninja riders are gona hate these class rules

CDI is part of ignition - it says "Ignition, Engine control module/unit (ICM, ECU, ECM) and wiring loom must remain standard

I'd say they aren't too fussed on what type of exhaust you use as long as it is safe and not stupidly loud.

The idea is that everyone is running the same or at least very similar machinery - which means that it is rider skill that should determine who wins.

Drogen Omen

28th May 2009, 13:26

What category do Honda NSR 250's come under?

Also where is this thing gona be held? South Island, North Island, palmy, taupo...?

Benk

28th May 2009, 13:31

What category do Honda NSR 250's come under?

Also where is this thing gona be held? South Island, North Island, palmy, taupo...?

F3 man.

A 250 diesel wont have a chance against the 2 strokes.

Kevin G

28th May 2009, 14:19

What category do Honda NSR 250's come under?

Also where is this thing gona be held? South Island, North Island, palmy, taupo...?

It will run nationally, talk to your local RR club and put pressure on them to make space in upcoming race programs to include this class. These development classes need to given a space at racedays so we can foster the young and bring new blood into the sport. This must be done at local levels and by MNZ. It may start with one or two and yes that might seem painfull but it will not happen overnight and we all have to give up a little of our racedays to make time for this important development class (just like the current streetstock) Any club that is not running a street stock really needs to wake up and get on board.

The 250 class is not "in" yet, it is in discussion so if you have any ideas forward them to MNZ.

Kevin Goddard

Benk

28th May 2009, 14:57

It will run nationally, talk to your local RR club and put pressure on them to make space in upcoming race programs to include this class. These development classes need to given a space at racedays so we can foster the young and bring new blood into the sport. This must be done at local levels and by MNZ. It may start with one or two and yes that might seem painfull but it will not happen overnight and we all have to give up a little of our racedays to make time for this important development class (just like the current streetstock) Any club that is not running a street stock really needs to wake up and get on board.

The 250 class is not "in" yet, it is in discussion so if you have any ideas forward them to MNZ.

Kevin Goddard

Are 250s (2strokes) a good development class anymore? Considering there are bugger all manufacturers out there making them anymore, meaning your looking at 15 year old bikes, which wont be cheap. How many development classes do we need? (buckets, streetstock, 125, 250 4strokes and protwin at the moment). At any club meets Ive been to it already it feels like there are too many classes without adding another class in which wont be able to run with any other classes (f3 grids are always full, as are supersport).

This is why the 250 4stroke class is so good, cheap as chips, plenty of them still being made.

250 2strokes should be destined for the f3 grid :Punk: (with some letting up on the far too restrictive rules for them.)

Kevin G

28th May 2009, 15:09

Are 250s (2strokes) a good development class anymore? Considering there are bugger all manufacturers out there making them anymore, meaning your looking at 15 year old bikes, which wont be cheap. How many development classes do we need? (buckets, streetstock, 125, 250 4strokes and protwin at the moment). At any club meets Ive been to it already it feels like there are too many classes without adding another class in which wont be able to run with any other classes (f3 grids are always full, as are supersport).

This is why the 250 4stroke class is so good, cheap as chips, plenty of them still being made.

250 2strokes should be destined for the f3 grid :Punk: (with some letting up on the far too restrictive rules for them.)

The new proposed 250 twin class would run with streetstock at current meets and it is seen that eventually as the old RG's etc get too old and tired that these bikes (250 twin 4 strokes) would take over.

250 two strokes are in F3 now, not sure what you meant here?

Kevin Goddard

Benk

28th May 2009, 15:28

The new proposed 250 twin class would run with streetstock at current meets and it is seen that eventually as the old RG's etc get too old and tired that these bikes (250 twin 4 strokes) would take over.

250 two strokes are in F3 now, not sure what you meant here?

Kevin Goddard

Haha, Im not sure what I meant either. I misread your original post. I thought you were talking about bringing the 250 2stroke class back in, as well as 250 4s. Hence my rant. But I was wrong.

Carry on fighting the good fight sir :stupid:

oyster

31st May 2009, 21:36

Kevin G summed it up pretty well as I understood this idea of 250 twin four strokes. A lot of effort has gone into Streetstock being the ideal entry level development class especially for youth. Over the last year or so a lot of discussion has centered around: "what happens when all the Rg 150's eventually die?" We have a "5 year plan" for Rg's now, but it's no garantee, so a good idea is introduce a possible successor. The 250 twin four stroke is the only practical one, and it has a connection with "industry" which might encourage it. It remains to be seen, but I imagine the RG will still "rule" on the track, so it's intro through the existing Streetstock class will not upset any existing balance.
As Kev says, get you ideas into MNZ via the site.

Kickaha

1st June 2009, 00:21

How many development classes do we need? (buckets, streetstock, 125, 250 4strokes and protwin at the moment).

Buckets are not a development class and have never really been used as one in most areas, the exception probabaly being Invercargill when Oyster lived there

The average age of the competitors would be higher than most other classes and they are a proper Formula class

vindy500

1st June 2009, 01:51

so is this likely to happen and if so where would the races be? all over nz or one place? the gpx might wanna come along...

koba

1st June 2009, 11:12

so is this likely to happen and if so where would the races be? all over nz or one place? the gpx might wanna come along...

Anyone reading this thread who owns a 250 twin or any 250 should know that you can already race them.
They are eligable for streetstock and while they don't have the same level of straight-line poke as a 250/4 they can still do OK.

All you need to do is prep the bike for the track (Wire sump plug, replace anti-freeze with water etc..) More info here. (http://www.vicclub.co.nz/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=250)

Get out there and give it a go, don't worry if your bike isn't the latest and the flashest!

Benk

2nd June 2009, 07:58

Buckets are not a development class and have never really been used as one in most areas, the exception probabaly being Invercargill when Oyster lived there

The average age of the competitors would be higher than most other classes and they are a proper Formula class

OK. Splitting hairs though eh. Its cheap racing was what I was getting at. And its a moot point anyway, as I was arguing with someone who was in agreement :laugh: