Passchendaele project help?

[jaymzw]

Okay, so Form 6 history.

I have to do a research project on WW1, and in particular a soldier that DIED (rather pessimistic i thought but go figure). So, i went onto the NZ cenotaph website and decided in the end to select 1905 All Black Originals Captain David Gallaher.

So i needed 3 Study questions, I picked the following:

-Who was David Gallaher (easy there is a shit load of info on him)

-What campaign did David Gallaher fight/die in (slightly less easy researching Passchendaele is fine however from a NZ perspective i am a little limited)

AND, the one i'm having trouble with,

-WHY did so many NZer's die at Passchendaele?

I know that by the time we were pulled out of Passchendaele we had suffered 18,000 casualties including 5000 deaths.

But why was this?

I have searched through google for hours but found limited info as to who was held accountable for this and why it was such a disaster.

I haven't had the opportunity to get hold of any books yet.

Soooooo, any help? Webpages that may be of help? Possible books i should look into?


Thanks if you can help

[birdhandler]

Dr Glyn Haper has written on this very topic
Look here
http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/passchendaele_campaign.htm

I have the book but live in papakura and work in manukau imagine it would be in most libraries. PM me if you a desparate and are willing to travel you can borrow it

Here is a link

http://www.harpercollins.com.au/books/9781869505790/Dark_Journey_Three_key_NZ_battles_of_the_western_f ront/index.aspx

Cheers

[jaymzw]

Dr Glyn Haper has written on this very topic
Look here
http://www.rsa.org.nz/remem/passchendaele_campaign.htm

I have the book but live in papakura and work in manukau imagine it would be in most libraries. PM me if you a desparate and are willing to travel you can borrow it

Here is a link

http://www.harpercollins.com.au/books/9781869505790/Dark_Journey_Three_key_NZ_battles_of_the_western_f ront/index.aspx

Cheers

Yuss!

Exactly the sort of reference i needed!

I'll get it out form the library tomorrow!

Part of the marking criteria to get an 'Excellence' or an 'A' for all the lucky pre NCEA people is to have many sources of information, so books,internet and first hand second hand etc. So this book will be great!

[Big Dave]

I designed a book for my Friend Adam Cutforth - about Archie Greeves.

It's a publication in French and English featuring transcripts from Archie's Journals.

This is the chapter on Paaschendale.

http://homepage.mac.com/david_cohen_design/.Pictures/misc4/78-85.pdf

(it's 10mb)

[Racey Rider]

TVNZ screened a great doco on ANZAC Day 2008 all about what happened at Paaschendale. Sadly I deleted it from my hard drive just three weeks ago.

[fliplid]

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/dave-gallaher
http://www.inflandersfields.be/ - also in English!
http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/ypres3.htm
http://www.army.mil.nz/at-a-glance/events/passchendaele/default.htm
Also
"Passchendaele- The Sacrificial Ground" by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart
I'm kinda down the road from Birdhandler- same applies!

[piston broke]

here's a movie,tis great,but sad
http://www.megavideo.com/?v=C478IL08

[98tls]

Who was at fault is easy,Stupid poms in charge thinking it was still Waterloo and applying said tactics,bit like Churchills effort with the Kiwis at Gallipoli,as i said,stupid poms,possibly they thought "there only from the colonies",actually make that probably,there arrogance was beyond belief,even there own Historians acknowledge it.Hunters n Collectors song "whats a few men " springs to mind.

[Headbanger]

In a foreign field he lay
lonely soldier unknown grave
on his dying words he prays
tell the world of Paschendale

Relive all that he's been through
last communion of his soul
rust your bullets with his tears
let me tell you 'bout his years

Laying low in a blood filled trench
killing time 'til my very own death
on my face I can feel the falling rain
never see my friends again
in the smoke, in the mud and lead
smell of fear and feeling of dread
soon be time to go over the wall
rapid fire and the end of us all

Whistles, shouts and more gun fire
lifeless bodies hang on barbwire
battlefield nothing but a bloody tomb
be reunited with my dead friends soon
many soldiers eighteen years
drown in mud, no more tears
surely a war no one can win
killing time about to begin

Home, far away. From the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away. But the war, no chance to live again

The bodies of ours and our foes
the sea of death it overflows
in no man's land God only knows
into jaws of death we go...

Crucified as if on a cross
allied troops, they mourn their loss
German war propaganda machine
such before has never been seen
swear I heard the angels cry
pray to God no more may die
so that people know the truth
tell the tale of Paschendale

Cruelty has a human heart
everyman does play his part
terror of the men we kill
the human heart is hungry still

I stand my ground for the very last time
gun is ready as I stand in line
nervous wait for the whistle to blow
rush of blood and over we go...

Blood is falling like the rain
its crimson cloak unveils again
the sound of guns can't hide their shame
and so we die on Paschendale

Dodging shrapnel and barbwire
running straight at cannon fire
running blind as I hold my breath
say a prayer symphony of death
as we charge the enemy lines
a burst of fire and we go down
I choke a cry but no one hears
feel the blood go down my throat

Home, far away. From the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away. But the war, no chance to live again
Home, far away. From the war, a chance to live again
Home, far away. But the war, no chance to live again

See my spirit on the wind
across the lines beyond the hill
friend and foe will meet again
those who died at Paschendale

[jaymzw]

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/dave-gallaher
http://www.inflandersfields.be/ - also in English!

http://www.army.mil.nz/at-a-glance/events/passchendaele/default.htm
Also
"Passchendaele- The Sacrificial Ground" by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart
I'm kinda down the road from Birdhandler- same applies!



http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/ypres3.htm

That website is pretty good thanks,

I'll look into those books tomorrow also:hug:

EDIT: Headbanger, that's some pretty deep stuff, do you know who wrote that?

[Indiana_Jones]

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-Indy

[Headbanger]

EDIT: Headbanger, that's some pretty deep stuff, do you know who wrote that?

Iron Maiden.

I figure that the lyrics work well on their own so made no reference to the song, However the song itself is one of the best they have ever done.




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[MisterD]

Who was at fault is easy,Stupid poms in charge thinking it was still Waterloo and applying said tactics,

Clearly you know nothing about Waterloo - Wellington generally devised his tactics to protect his troops as far as possible, reverse slopes and all that. Wellington fought Waterloo as largely a defensive battle, Passchendale was an offensive action...



bit like Churchills effort with the Kiwis at Gallipoli,as i said,stupid poms,possibly they thought "there only from the colonies",actually make that probably,there arrogance was beyond belief,even there own Historians acknowledge it.Hunters n Collectors song "whats a few men " springs to mind.

British soldiers suffered just as much at Passchendale and the Somme. The French and Germans lost a quarter of a million men between them at Verdun.

The fact is that all sides failed to learn the lessons of the American Civil War (the first real industrial war)...no side had a monopoly of pig-headed out of touch Generals throwing lives away pointlessly.

[fliplid]

Reckon that the book "Mud, Blood and Poppycock" by Gordon Corrigan kind of puts a lot of the "popularist" theories where they belong.

As for Gallipoli/The Dardanelles- "Defeat At Gallipoli" by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart covers that pretty well...

[pritch]

The fact is that all sides failed to learn the lessons of the American Civil War (the first real industrial war)...no side had a monopoly of pig-headed out of touch Generals throwing lives away pointlessly.

Generals are always preparing for the last war. In WW1 they ordered cavalry charges against the then new machine guns.

IN WW2 the French Maginot line, the ultimate trench, was another example. In the early days of WW2 the British had soldiers digging up the countryside practicing for trench warfare.

I guess that all comes down to the fact that the textbooks are basically always out of date.