Bike is dying... Help!

[Breed777]

Ok so today I rode about 3km to the bank, got off, went inside did my banking and came out went to start the bike and nothing (just sounded like it was trying to start)... tried again, same deal. tried again and gave it alot of throttle and it started.... idled... and the idle gets slower and slower till it dies.
started it again the same way and just kept the trottle up and rode it home.... parked it up left it for 10 mins and tried starting it.... starts no problems....

What gives?

[NOWOOL]

check the battery and the fuel filter.

[Breed777]

Ok so today I rode about 3km to the bank, got off, went inside did my banking and came out went to start the bike and nothing (just sounded like it was trying to start)... tried again, same deal. tried again and gave it alot of throttle and it started.... idled... and the idle gets slower and slower till it dies.
started it again the same way and just kept the trottle up and rode it home.... parked it up left it for 10 mins and tried starting it.... starts no problems....

What gives?

[CookMySock]

Does it take a good revv to clear its throat? Any black smoke from the exhaust after a problematic start?

Steve

[Breed777]

no, just did it again, wouldnt start without giving her throttle.....

[Breed777]

Just tried again to start it. Had to hold starter down for about 10 seconds and when it finally 'caught' ildes pretty low, sounds like it could stall at any time. Turn her off, and its easier to start the second time tho....

[Breed777]

Ok so today I rode about 3km to the bank, got off, went inside did my banking and came out went to start the bike and nothing (just sounded like it was trying to start)... tried again, same deal. tried again and gave it alot of throttle and it started.... idled... and the idle gets slower and slower till it dies.
started it again the same way and just kept the trottle up and rode it home.... parked it up left it for 10 mins and tried starting it.... starts no problems....

What gives?

Just tried again to start it. Had to hold starter down for about 10 seconds and when it finally 'caught' ildes pretty low, sounds like it could stall at any time. Turn her off, and its easier to start the second time tho....

[CookMySock]

soooooo, any black smoke?

Steve

[Breed777]

no none. Just tested the battery with a multi meter, says 12.66 which i guess is normal?

[Breed777]

Just tested the battery with a multi meter, says 12.66 which i guess is normal? how do i check the fuel filter?

[Breed777]

Just tested the battery with a multi meter, says 12.66 which i guess is normal?

[Ragingrob]

How many threads do you need to make for one problem? Rev it a bit and does it rev cleanly without bogging down?

"Wouldn't start without giving her throttle" - Well some bikes want throttle to start. Make sure you haven't accidenetly turned your idle way down or something.

[CookMySock]

Ok its not flooding and hydraulicing. Does it spin over really well on the starter but not fire up? Or does it turn over rather slowly? Does it still push start easily?

Steve

[Breed777]

Yeah starter sounds like its hard out trying to get her going....how do you push start it? (sorry new to all this)...

Sorry for the multiple threads....wasnt quite sure where the post belonged

could it be the plugs?

[PirateJafa]

Checked the spark plugs?

[Breed777]

That was my next guess... Its an 88 GSXR, so are the plugs under the tank? My fuel cock has a ON RES and PRI position, what should it be on if I have to remove the tank?

[phoenixgtr]

ON or RES will be fine if you're taking the tank off, just not PRI. How much fuel did it have in it?

[Breed777]

I filled her up yesterday. like i said rode to the bank today fine... sounds like its trying to start fine just doesnt catch.... never changed the plugs before... so I take off the tank etc.... I wont get fuel spraying everywhere if I remove attched hoses?
What should I look for if its the plugs? (I can get it going just takes a while, so, if its going and idling rough would that be the plugs after its started already?)

[YellowDog]

The cold start hot fail makes me think this could be choke related?

[Mom]

I reckon you should post this thread in yet another forum to see if you can get even more answers :yes:

[Breed777]

Thanks....very helpful :niceone:

[tigertim20]

The basic stuff you can check, is look for crap in the fuel tank, check if your bike has an inline fuel filter, and check whether or not its blocked up. Check your plugs for any dirt/oil or other shit.
How many km's has your bike done? it could be something like worn rings, or carbon clogging the valve seats.
You could also see if anyone else on kiwibiker lives in your area and could come and have a look at it as well.
oh, check to see that you are getting a stong spark on the plugs as well.

[CookMySock]

The cold start hot fail makes me think this could be choke related?Yeah thats why I was thinking it was flooding, but theres no black smoke. It's happened very suddenly so it's unlikely to be engine mechanicals.

To push start, you need a helper, or a little hill to roll down.. Key on, put the gearbox in second gear, pull the clutch in, and get someone to push you along and let the clutch out suddenly (just dump the clutch lever) and the engine will begin to spin, powered by your helper pushing, or you rolling down the hill. Now it should start easily, or not at all.. Pretty much its what you do if you have a flat battery. When you get more skilled and confident you can push start on your own, or drop the bike. :Oops:

I'm stumped at this stage. Hard to tell over the 'net.

Steve

[Breed777]

thanks guys.... I can get it started but its just idling and slowly dies.... putting the choke on full or off seems to make no difference.... ok so trying the fuel filter and plugs etc....

1) to check plugs I have to remove the tank right? is there any tricks to it? what do I need to do top stop fuel going everywhere? whats the best way to clean the plugs?

2) Where would I find the Fuel filter?

[Breed777]

[
How many km's has your bike done? it could be something like worn rings, or carbon clogging the valve seats.

only done 6000 kms, bought it as a NZ new import from a dealer who had it serviced and Vinned only 120km ago....

[MSTRS]

If you need to be told those few basic things, you are not qualified to to anything yourself. Get a local in, and watch/assist.

[Breed777]

Yeah your probably right.... can much damage be done checking the plugs tho?

[PirateJafa]

Unbolt any fairings that are in the way of you removing your tank, then remove the bolts holding your tank.

Switch the tap to OFF or RES depending on what options you have, then pull off the fuel lines and lift the tank off.

Then use a spanner and sparkplug socket to pull out the plugs and tell us what they're like.

[sil3nt]

You didnt happen to overfill it with gas did you? can't say i know anything about bikes but i do remember reading somewhere that overfilling a tank can lead to bad things on some models. Just a thought!

[Breed777]

Ok, well I got the two bolts of from in front of the seat but after that I am at a loss.... I think I will try and get the bike back to the Dealer I got it from, i have a 3 mth warranty so it should still be covered. Just not sure if I can keep the bike running long eneough to get it there. It keeps dying from Idle.

In an unrealted question, what is the 'box' in the pic, that is under the passenger seat on my bike?

Also have a short quicktime clip of what the bike sounds like trying to start, if you wanna see it just PM me youe email addy....

Thanks for all your help guys, I know how frustrating it must be helping the new guy

[Breed777]

You didnt happen to overfill it with gas did you? can't say i know anything about bikes but i do remember reading somewhere that overfilling a tank can lead to bad things on some models. Just a thought!

Crap...I did fill it quite high, what would that do to it?

[sil3nt]

Don't remember what the article i read said about it and i can't find it again! Hopefully someone here can tell you that you can't overfill it don't do anything crazy based on things i say :bleh:

[Mom]

Thanks for all your help guys, I know how frustrating it must be helping the new guy

Serious answer for you now...

Have a hunt through here and see if you can find a manual for your bike, then have a read.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=10556&highlight=manuals+line

Having said that though, if the bike is still under warranty get it back to the dealer you bought it from. If you dont think it will ride there ring them to come and pick it up :yes:

[Breed777]

Thanks, will have a hunt for the manual. I did fill it quite high, but then again it did run fine for a day and now playing up....

[gwigs]

Check your fuel cock ,if it has no on off tap it will probably be a vacuum operated tap.Switch it to the prime position it will allow the fuel to flow via gravity.If your fuel cock is faulty it will not allow fuel to go through...
Also look for vacuum leaks around carbs:calm:

[Breed777]

Fuel cock seems to work ok....

[sil3nt]

Did you try setting it to prime like gwigs suggested? I think this will overcome the problem of an overfilled tank (assuming this is the issue)

[Breed777]

yip, put it on prime, still didnt wanna start.... is it normall for the Fuel cock to be hard to turn, i.e I had to grab it with pliers to turn it, alot of resistance
or should you be able to do it with your fingers?

[PirateJafa]

Ok, well I got the two bolts of from in front of the seat but after that I am at a loss.... I think I will try and get the bike back to the Dealer I got it from, i have a 3 mth warranty so it should still be covered. Just not sure if I can keep the bike running long eneough to get it there. It keeps dying from Idle.

Shit dude, you didn't say it was still under warranty.

Bolt everything back on, and tell them. It's up to them to fix it.

And the "box" in your picture under your pillion seat is for you to keep your toolkit (not that you'd know what to do with it) and any other miscellaneous items you might want to keep safe on your bike - I recommend a tyre repair kit and a spare $20 note (in case your Eftpos bottoms out after you've filled up/miles from nowhere.

[Breed777]

yeah I bought it from Adrenalyn Motorcycles in Mount Maunganui and was told it has a 90 day 'return to base' warranty.... so hopefully I can get it back to him.... its not wanting to start....
Surely if over filling the gas tank has done something it would not be covered?

Thanks for the help with the 'little box'...my tool kit seems to sit right next to the battery so this is empty

[PirateJafa]

Overfilling the fuel tank should do sweet fuck all. Unless someone has been lazy when working on your bike in the past, any extra fuel should have dripped out the overflow pipe at the bottom of your bike.

You said it runs when you hold the gas partically open? Sounds like plugs to me. Just ride it back to them and don't let it idle - just hold the throttle open a bit even when waiting at lights to avoid it cutting out.

There's only one bridge between Tauranga and the Mount anyway, so as long as you don't cut out there you'll always have a shoulder/footpath to pull over on.

[Ixion]

Rape the bitch.

[Breed777]

Yeah probably just something simple like the plugs... Just my over active imagination expecting the worst...
I use to own a 300ZX which I bought for $20,000 and cost me another $15000 to fix after everything died on it.... every little hiccup now has me scared!:crazy:

[tigertim20]

[
How many km's has your bike done? it could be something like worn rings, or carbon clogging the valve seats.

only done 6000 kms, bought it as a NZ new import from a dealer who had it serviced and Vinned only 120km ago....

Dude, go STRAIGHT back to the dealer, Im sure someone can tell you the relevant parts of the consumer gaurantees act and all that, but if its turning to shit this fast, TAKE IT BACK, and dont fuck around with it or you risk voiding any warranty that you may have otherwise got.

[The Pastor]

does the bike start up fine with the fuel cap open?

[Breed777]

Ok well just rung the bike place, today it wont even turn over just a 'click' and there is a huge puddle of petrol under her, dripping from here...

[bungbung]

Flooded good and proper. Take it back to the dealer, it's an easy fix.

You may have some dirt trapped under the carb float needle valve. As the bike is standing, a trickle of petrol slowly floods the intake manifold and cylinder.

You bike will be hard to start due to it being too rich. After standing overnight, there could be enough fuel in a cylinder to lock the engine.

[MSTRS]

Flooded good and proper. Take it back to the dealer, it's an easy fix.

You may have some dirt trapped under the carb float needle valve. As the bike is standing, a trickle of petrol slowly floods the intake manifold and cylinder.

You bike will be hard to start due to it being too rich. After standing overnight, there could be enough fuel in a cylinder to lock the engine.

Yep.
DO NOT TRY TO CRASH START. Trailer to shop, and have them fix the problem.

[Breed777]

ouch....that sounds bad :)

[Breed777]

Is this something that happens often, i.e I should be able to fix myself? or is it a mechanic type thing?

[MSTRS]

Is this something that happens often, i.e I should be able to fix myself? or is it a mechanic type thing?

Yes, but not at this stage of your mechanical journey

[sil3nt]

For future reference! http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_can_I_do_if_I_flood_it%3F
Only useful if you can figure out what happens straight away

[Breed777]

Petrol has stopped dripping. now just a click when you try to start it.....

[MSTRS]

petrol has stopped dripping. Now just a click when you try to start it.....

STOP!! Now!!!
It won't start, and if it's hydrolocked, you risk BIG NASTIES.
Take it to the shop.

[Breed777]

Sweet done. Will wait to hear back from Dealer (Sent email, no reply yet)

If it is hydrolocked doesnt that mean the engine is 'stuffed'?

[Breed777]

Spoke to mechanic, seems to think there is something stuck under the float needle? (Whatever that is!) he is picking it up at 5 today....

[PirateJafa]

Sweet done. Will wait to hear back from Dealer (Sent email, no reply yet)

If it is hydrolocked doesnt that mean the engine is 'stuffed'?
Look.

Just... LISTEN to the people here.

DON'T touch the bike. Just, let it sit there and look pretty.

PHONE the dealer - you have no idea how often they check their e-mails.

NO, this is not something that happens often, or at least it won't happen often once you get the hang of starting your bike correctly.

And lastly, YES, this is something you should be able to fix - but AFTER someone else has taught you more about basic bike engineering/maintenance.

[Breed777]

Look.

Just... LISTEN to the people here.

DON'T touch the bike. Just, let it sit there and look pretty.

PHONE the dealer - you have no idea how often they check their e-mails.

NO, this is not something that happens often, or at least it won't happen often once you get the hang of starting your bike correctly.

And lastly, YES, this is something you should be able to fix - but AFTER someone else has taught you more about basic bike engineering/maintenance.

I am LISTENING to the people here, thats the whole point of asking questions isnt it, to get answers?
I am NOT touching the bike
I have phoned the dealer
I am not gonna learn if I dont ask questions.... anyone who doesnt wanna help or know can skip the thread but I do appreciated people taking the time to explain things to me....

[PirateJafa]

I am LISTENING to the people here, thats the whole point of asking questions isnt it, to get answers?
I am NOT touching the bike
I have phoned the dealer
I am not gonna learn if I dont ask questions.... anyone who doesnt wanna help or know can skip the thread but I do appreciated people taking the time to explain things to me....
Constantly hitting the starter motor won't do anything useful - particularly if it's hydrolocked - t'will just drain the battery.

Good.

Good again - use that warranty whilst you have it.

And it's all just speculation from our end, y'see. Best to just wait and see what the shop TELLS you the problem is, as they'll be the ones looking.

[MSTRS]

I am LISTENING to the people here, thats the whole point of asking questions isnt it, to get answers?
I am NOT touching the bike
I have phoned the dealer
I am not gonna learn if I dont ask questions.... anyone who doesnt wanna help or know can skip the thread but I do appreciated people taking the time to explain things to me....

Yeah but you tried (at least once) to start the bike after we said DON'T. And yeah, you are keen to get your bike going.
Thing is...mechanicking is fairly basic stuff, when you know how, but when you have no idea, you won't understand what is being told to you and in your ignorance you can cause a lot of tears for yourself. We know, from personal experience, and can recognise the signs.

[Breed777]

I didnt try to start it I think it was just the order the posts came in makes it look that way. I tried first things this morning, noticed the puddle of gas and havent touched it (since you said dont). I have a basic knowledge of engines, mainly EFI ones so just online trying to learn about Crabs and Floats and other things....Im keen to learn.... They are picking my bike up today... but by the way he sounded on the phone seemed a bit pissed cause I couldnt fix it myself, thats why I ask is it a really simple thing cause he kinda made me feel like any idiot should be able to fix it....and Im just wasting his time somewhat

[MSTRS]

His attitude is his problem. He offered the warranty, and should honour it.

[Breed777]

Yeah I can appreciate it might be frustrating for him, having to come pick up the bike and fix a potentially easy problem, but from the sounds of it, its not gonna cost him hundreds to repar so its mainly just his time?
Im a music teacher and it can be frustrating dealing with ;beginners' but thats part of the job. He could of been a little more understanding I think.
Anyone in Tauranga have a dealer/mechanic they would recommend in the future?

[PirateJafa]

I didnt try to start it I think it was just the order the posts came in makes it look that way. I tried first things this morning, noticed the puddle of gas and havent touched it (since you said dont). I have a basic knowledge of engines, mainly EFI ones so just online trying to learn about Crabs and Floats and other things....Im keen to learn.... They are picking my bike up today... but by the way he sounded on the phone seemed a bit pissed cause I couldnt fix it myself, thats why I ask is it a really simple thing cause he kinda made me feel like any idiot should be able to fix it....and Im just wasting his time somewhat

Any idiot can fix it. I should know, I am one. :sweatdrop

However, first you need to learn a bit about engines. And since you have the warranty, you might as well use it (you paid for it!).

[Breed777]

Will do.
Any good sites for learning about 4 stroke systems? found a few diagrams etc

[PirateJafa]

Yeah I can appreciate it might be frustrating for him, having to come pick up the bike and fix a potentially easy problem, but from the sounds of it, its not gonna cost him hundreds to repar so its mainly just his time?
Im a music teacher and it can be frustrating dealing with ;beginners' but thats part of the job. He could of been a little more understanding I think.
Anyone in Tauranga have a dealer/mechanic they would recommend in the future?
IMO keep using him until you have a reason otherwise.

He might've sounded a little grumpy over the phone, but he might have just been having a bad day. Who knows, maybe some dicks cut the paws off his kitten yesterday.

He IS honouring the warranty, so as far as I can see he seems to be a good bloke? He's even picking it up despite you saying it was a return-to-base warranty.

[PirateJafa]

Ask around for a local mentor who is willing to do a bit of "mechanical mentoring". All the little bits like what does what, how to check your oil, change the oil/filter, how to tighten your chain etc.

And don't forget to clean the old lube off your chain regularly.

[Breed777]

I guess when your new to it, you have to learn fast cause its easy to be taken for a ride, if you dont know much about engine they can tell you the 'Flux Capacitor' is stuffed and it will be a $500 fix and if you dont know any better you wont question it :)
Tried ringing Bay City Motorcycles cause I heard they were good, but I think someone has pulled the plug there, no answer on their lines.
Thanks for all ur help....

Also doesnt help that on the net most GSXR stuff is for current models and my bike is 20 years old...

[Breed777]

ok I think I have this engine thing sorted....
couple of quick questions for you pros....

1) What decided how much gas goes into the cylinder?
2) what keeps all the cylinders in sync? (do they all work in sync)
3) the Carb is where the air and fuel are mixed, the throttle controls the amount of air let into the carb? what controls the amount of fuel?



Thanks guys

Ok just a wee edit here... as I understand it, the float in the Carb lets the gas in and when enough is in there it pushes the float needle into the hole blocking off the intake of fuel, and on my bike the float needle may not be closing to flow of fuel making it run rich or flooding?

Sound right?

[MSTRS]

ok I think I have this engine thing sorted....
couple of quick questions for you pros....

1) What decided how much gas goes into the cylinder?
2) what keeps all the cylinders in sync? (do they all work in sync)
3) the Carb is where the air and fuel are mixed, the throttle controls the amount of air let into the carb? what controls the amount of fuel?



Thanks guys

JETS. They determine the amount of fuel that passes through them. Very important. But then, so is every other part of the system. Every part must work to it's optimum, and be in balance with all the other parts.

[Breed777]

I have heard you guys talk about 'Syncing' the carbs... so how many Carbs does A bike have? is it one carb that distributes fuel to all 4 cylinders? through 4 jets?

[MSTRS]

Oh. Dear. You really don't know much. Post to follow...

[Breed777]

Yeah like I said ... pretty limited... mainly just fuel injected cars.... and even then,,, pretty limited :yes:

[MSTRS]

All sorts of things have been tried over the years, as far as carbs-to-cylinders are concerned.
Basically, one carb per cylinder was the outcome. Each carb is a closed system for the cylinder it feeds. Carbs have a number of jets in them, which control different things at different revs. The main jet is the one most commonly dicked about, along with the needle that seats in it. When you twist the throttle, simply put, a cable lifts a slide inside the carb, attached to the bottom of that slide is a tapered needle that is lifted out of the main jet, effectively making the hole bigger which allows more fuel to flow through. The slide itself opens up the amount of air that can pass through the carb, as it is lifted.
The needle valve that was mentioned a few posts back is the one that allows fuel from the tank to enter the bowl under the carb. This is your working reservoir, and the level of fuel in it is very important. There is a float inside that lifts as the level increases so that it shuts off the needle valve, stopping more fuel coming in. Think of a ballcock in your toilet cistern. If there is dirt or wear in the valve, or the float has sprung a leak, the fuel will keep flowing. This is probably your problem. It overflows the carb bowl and tickles into the connected cylinder via the inlet valve, and fills up the cylinder. This is 'hydrolocking'. Try compressing a liquid and see what happens.
Balancing the carbs is necessary so that each works in conjunction with the others (the slides all move at exactly the same time for instance).
Your bike has 4 cylinders and 4 carbs. It is likely that only one carb has a problem, but that is all it takes.

[Breed777]

thanks, that make alot of sense. they sound pretty 'brittle' do you have to be super careful when cleaning then or syncing them? so once a cylinder is hydrolocked the piston no longer moves and you risk bending the rod?

Just found a manual online for my bike...found something interesting. If I turn my keep completley to the right (past ON) I can lock the steering and it allows the steering to lock and the park lights to go on with the key removed. Says its a Night Time parking feature. seems cool but wouldnt this deaden the battery?

[MSTRS]

thanks, that make alot of sense. they sound pretty 'brittle' do you have to be super careful when cleaning then or syncing them? so once a cylinder is hydrolocked the piston no longer moves and you risk bending the rod?

Carbs are delicate things, that are easily damaged by hamfisted but keen younguns (and old farts too ;) ).
Bent rod, blown seals/gaskets, even heads blowing off the top. NASTY STUFF as I said earlier.

[Breed777]

damn. do you do work on yours or leave it for a mechanic? Dunno if I will ever know enough to confidently pull my bike apart

[MSTRS]

Mine's FI - and computer controlled at that. What do you think?
Basic carbed engines tho...in my sleep (almost)

[Breed777]

I prefer to just sleep :zzzz:

[Ixion]

All sorts of things have been tried over the years, as far as carbs-to-cylinders are concerned.
Basically, one carb per cylinder was the outcome. ...

Not always. I have a bike with two cylinders and one carb. And a bike with one cylinder and two carbs.

[The Pastor]

dont worry mate you'll learn soon enough. find a carb cleaning guide and have a go at pulling your carbs to bits.

few tips.

do one carb at a time (i think you bike will have 4 carbs- all attached in one big block) take it apart, clean and reassemble before doing the next one.

Find a good diagram and study it so you know excatly what goes in there or not, if you cant find a diagram take pictures or notes. Carefully remove the parts (there is a spring under one cover so be carefull when removing things as they can spring off) put all the parts into a clean ice cream container so you dont lose anything.

clean the out side of the carbs first - then clean your hands, if you dont when you touch the jets and needles you will get them dirty and you will be worse off than when you started.

Only use carb cleaner to clean, dont use wire to poke through the holes etc. a can of carb cleaner is about $17 take out the parts and spray that shit every where.

reassemble the parts

do that for each carb, note if anything looks worn - check the gaskets and diaphrams - the soft rubber things

wack the carbs back on, but leave the air filter out of the airbox, start the bike (can take a few goes to start as your carbs are dry) then spray more carb cleaner into your air box so it cycle through, this just helps incase you've missed a spot etc.

put the airfilter back in and your good to go.

Don't be put off about pulling your bike to bits, just do it! only one way to learn, you'll make mistakes, probably a lot of them, but at the end of the day you'll come out better off.

here is a good thread about carbs
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=1823&highlight=carb+cleaning
the link in there is a good one, but i'll try and find you a really good one.

this is a brilliant one should give you a very good understanding of whats inside a carb, also shows you how to make an air filter, http://cbr250.com/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26849 (not 56k friendly)

also heres one on hydrolocks ;)
http://cbr250.com/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13372

[MSTRS]

Not always. I have a bike with two cylinders and one carb. And a bike with one cylinder and two carbs.

Yea, but you were young when your bikes were old...experimenting was still going on.
:whistle:

[Breed777]

Thanks guys....

Mechanic came and got bike today.... says the battery is flat (from me trying to start it yesterday) and it is most likely the Carbs as suspected..... he asked what gas I put in and I said 91 (Have used 91 since I got it, I am sure I asked him what to use and he said 91), anyway he said dont use 91 you gotta use 95 or higher.... so will using 91 have done to my bike what has happened? surely using 91 might make it run poorly etc but make it stop completely and poo the carbs?

Dunno now if it will be covered by warranty if I used the wrong gas?

[The Pastor]

Nope hes lieing to ya, using the wrong gas cant affect the carbs. Could make the bike run like shit tho, but i serriously doubt it.

[Ragingrob]

And I'm pretty sure a 1988 gsxr would've been designed to run on 91...

[roadracingoldfart]

I just read this entire thread , pheew.

I am amazed the subject of water in the tank was not brought up especially as the fault showed itself "after fueling". I have found many times that bikes left outside in the rain or filled from a can or whatever can attract a certain amount of water and that will cause a similar symtom to what was happening here.
We have water issues in fuel almost every couple of times it rains due to water getting into the gas stations tanks from flooding , or from opening the tank lid for the tanker to fill it and finding the filler neck clogged with leaves and crap and causing the water to sit above the drain. Its common as.

I hope you have a good result with the bike under warranty and then you can enjoy doing what its designed to do , be riden.

Paul.

[Breed777]

And I'm pretty sure a 1988 gsxr would've been designed to run on 91...


Thats a very good point!

[Breed777]

Whats the best fuel to use 91 or 95 or 98? and how can I avoid this happening again? (The bike is always kept in a garage btw)

[Ragingrob]

Some bikes run better and with more fuel economy on some fuels and worse on others, it's down to the individual bike I think. Otherwise just go for what's recommended in the manual :bleh:

[sil3nt]

The manual in a bike that old would almost definitely say 91! I would be worried if a mechanic told you not to use it. Using anything other than what the manual says will not give you more power will just give you more fuel consumption!

I just looked it up and it said 85-95 or higher. I would stick with 91 but you could try others to see if there is a difference.

[Flip]

There is sod all between 91,95 and 98. You won't cause any problems in a stock motor mixing them up at all. Some very high performance motors run slightly better on higher octane fuels, some old vintage motors like low octane fuels, thats all.

I also thought it might be a bit of water in his fuel.

I would not completely strip your carbs, it would be impossible for you to balance (set them up) after you put them back on.

Start out working on a simple single cylinder like a trail bike motor or even find a stuffed car motor and strip it apart.

Get the Hayes Manual for your bike, it lists the tasks and the skill level necessary to complete the job. They are a very good investment to make. You will save money doing the day to day maintenence and know what you have to get the shop to do.

[Breed777]

Manual says '90 octane or higher' so 91 should be fine....

[MSTRS]

I am amazed the subject of water in the tank was not brought up especially as the fault showed itself "after fueling".

Good point. But doesn't explain why the float/needle valve failed in at least one of the carbs.

[Breed777]

oh well its at the mechanics now.... guess we will see huh

[Breed777]

quote from an email sent to me from bike mechanic today....

'Our 91 octane is really 89 octane.
Hense the need for higher octane petrol'

[MSTRS]

quote from an email sent to me from bike mechanic today....

'Our 91 octane is really 89 octane.
Hense the need for higher octane petrol'

Take no notice. People have their own ideas about what is good/bad as far as octane in a particular engine is concerned.

I was told recently by a Honda mechanic to always use 91 in a Honda. He reckoned the extra additives in 95 were bad for the engine.

Your bike was designed to run on lower octane fuel. It may perform better on higher octanes, it may not. But none of them are inherently bad for your engine or carbs.

[Breed777]

ok...but he is probably gonna use this to get out of fixing the repairs under warranty.... saying I used the wrong gas....

[MSTRS]

It's not the petrol which caused the issue. It is water and/or dirt in it. I suspect it is dirt, which was there when he sold you the bike.

[Breed777]

Hopefully he sees it that way too.... how much would it cost to rectify the problem if I was paying?

[MSTRS]

How long is a piece of string?
All that job will take is time, and possibly a new needle/seat for the fuel shutoff.
Could be 1-2-3-4 hours depending on what he finds. I'm betting on 1-2 hours, since all he really needs to do is remove the carbs and their bowls, clean up the insides with something appropriate and blow out with compressed air, reassemble, refit and test.

[Breed777]

Cool man, thanks for all the info
:rockon:

[Breed777]

Email from Mechanic....

'Bike is sorted.
Crap in the fuel has caused the carb to flood & excess fuel to run through the engine.
We have serviced the air filter & air box, carb, changed the oil & tuned the bike.
It is running like a dream.

What caused the problems?
Bad fuel? Yes
Rev range of your riding? Maybe. The bike redlines at 18,000rpm so it is best ridden above 5-6,000 rpm is each gear.
Hard to do (I know) when you are learning!!!'

[MSTRS]

Good. Success is only knowledge (and a little luck) away. Now ride that bike. And don't be scared of giving it a bit - within reason

[Breed777]

Asked him what I owe....he says....(it comes to $279)
Attached is the job card / invoice.
It is hard to say if it would have happened if higher octane gas was put in
the bike.
The last thing I want to do is loose a customer over an issue such as this.
You tell me what you feel comfortable paying. 100%, 50%, 0%.
Whatever you think is fair is fine with me.

Jesus I have no Idea ?

[MSTRS]

It had NOTHING to do with the octane of the petrol. He was caught just as much as you were by the existing crud in the fuel system.
I suggest you ask him the value of the oil replaced and his labour for stripping/cleaning/refitting dirty carb, and you pay the balance. Other stuff not really warranty...just the mechanic being thorough.

[Breed777]

Works out with costs of picking up bike, dropping it off, labour and oil come to about half, so offered him 50% ($140) seems fair, we each pay half, he did air filter clean etc as well...

[roadracingoldfart]

Good point. But doesn't explain why the float/needle valve failed in at least one of the carbs.

Well water can sometimes carry bigger bits of shit through the tank and into the float bowl (because water tends to get "gulped" down a fuel line) .
This occurs due to the density of the water. Its not a biggy but i was surprised it wasnt mentioned earlier.
Looks like a good result for the man anyhow , ten points to the shop at being flexible to a new customer, its a very unusual situation they both found themselves in.

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

Works out with costs of picking up bike, dropping it off, labour and oil come to about half, so offered him 50% ($140) seems fair, we each pay half, he did air filter clean etc as well...

Good result those two men .... :hug: Happines filled and back on the road.

[Breed777]

Well bike is back....runs great and happy to pay 50/50. went out as soon as I got it back...first ever night time ride (Mental not, take the tinted visor off my helmet and put the clear one on!)... all is well with the world again....:calm: