Overseas trips with work - what are my rights/entitlements legally?

[cheese]

So I keep having to go away recently. The boss is pretty good about most things to be fair and have a nice hotel room, my breakfast is included, and I get taken out for lunch most days by the guy that runs the office here in China.

But, this is the issue i have....

This is my 3rd trip and there is a few things that I'm unsure about when your work sends you on a business trip.

If it is international, should there be a meal allowance? (I think that there is an entitlement to meal allowances if away from home overnight)
Should he give me a set $$ per day allowance?
As I'm away over the weekends, am I entitled to days in lieu? or do I have to work those days to be entitled?

He does give me some local money, but he gives me what he feels like giving me. i.e this is my third trip to China. First trip he gave me around $500 NZD for 10 days, then when i ran out another $500, second trip he gave $1250 NZD for 14 days. This time he gave me $250 NZD for 11 days. So I moaned and I got another $500NZD.

I use the local money to eat and buy water etc, but there is no set rate. its just "what he feels like giving me". and in the first trip, I used some of the local money to buy parts for our work here. I want to discuss this with him if he wants me to go away again, but just want to know what my rights are. I can't find much info on the net about it.

[vifferman]

I dunno 'bout legally, but businesses who have employees that travel usually have some sort of policy in place with regards to daily allowances, etc. (The same goes for working past dinner time while at work - they either bought food or paid some small allowance).
I was also given a business credit card for incidental expenses. This turned out to be useless in one previous job, because the company's collective credit was almost always at the limit, so I'd end up having to put the hotel, travel, etc. on my own personal card and get them to pay me back. Once, the company card was fubar'd, and my wife had her handbag stolen in Chch, and cancelled our credit cards. So... I was stuck in Adelaide, and had to grovel to the financial controller of the company I was working at to lend me $100 and take it off our bill, so I could pay for my hotel for the night. Very embarrassing...

I've travelled quite a bit for work with various jobs, and where I was working for a client, the usual arrangement was all the hotel bills Iincluding food, and copious quantities of alcohol) ended up being paid for by the client.
On other trips I've been given a daily allowance, which is pretty modest, and covers only breakfast and lunch. If you're frugal you can usually save part of this. Dinner is usually part of the hotel bill.
I stuffed this up for most of the 16 weeks total I spent in Oz on various trips, and charged everything to the hotel, as I thought this was how it worked (as per prior trips), ended up making a tidy 'bonus' at A$20/day or whatever it was. I thought this was reasonable, given that I had to be away from home, and my wife waqs coping on her own with the Three Mutant Spawn. She was eventually provided with a part-time cleaner to help her out.
When the accounts clerk eventually worked out that I'd misunderstood the arrangement, she decided it was too late and ignored my mistake.

The best thing is to sort out expenses, allowances, and other policies before you have to travel, but that's too late for you. I suggest though, that you get some agreed policy sorted out as soon as you can - one that is fair, and reasonable, and takes into account to some extent the inconvenience of you having to be away from home. While some people (usually those who who have done no - or limited - business travel) think it's a bonus, and fun, travelling for work is usually a pain in the butt. In my 16 weeks in Perth, I spent one (1!) day sight-seeing. I got to hate hotel/restaurant food, so ended up cooking in my room, and longing for a home-cooked meal. Dining out is OK when with a group (and we did have some great times, and some very drunk ones), but I hated eating alone. You usually end up working longer hours than at home. I had one trip where 14-hour days were common, as we were there to get the work done (and the exec who organised that trip severely underestimated how long setting up and installing 5 servers and new software would take), so to avoid looking like dicks, we worked our butts off. (Then went out at 2 AM to get pissed because we'd been shut inside all day. Lucky the client didn't complain about the huge bar tabs...)

[rainman]

AFAIK there is no firm legal prescription about this, but it's rather set by individual company policies (and, to some extent, your contract). If your company does a bit of international travel, and you don't have a policy covering expenses while overseas, why not offer to get all the affected people together (including the boss) and put one together? A good policy provides fair treatment for the people travelling while not sticking the boss with costs of excessive booze, hotel porno channel and hookers. This is definitely an area where a win-win policy can be put together.

You'll have much more luck approaching this as a "let's set some reasonable and consistent policy" discussion, rather than talking rights and obligations.

Alternatively, for a modest fee you can contract me to come facilitate the discussion and write up a policy for you... Just PM me :)

[cheese]

Cheers guys. I just had no idea where I stand.

I don't want to rock the boat, I just want to get some sort of standard in place so if I'm going away, I know this is what I'll have. Its so frustrating to be going away and not know what you will get. Originally he indicated that I was going to get $200 NZD for my 11 days (which really pissed me off) and then he give me another $150 that he had in the office. This would barely cover my food and water if I eat at McDonald's. And I'm certainly not pissing it up over here.

The first trip I had some overtime owed to me. I asked for it and he said no, I'll look after you. That's great, but what does that mean exactly. Its a bit of a "you don't ask you don't get" policy. But to be honest I generally feel uncomfortable about asking for money.

I guess this is the problem when working for small companies...... Especially when overseas travel isn't a regular for staff.

[P38]

Last time I travelled regulary as part of my job. We had a standard written agreement in place.

It covered Travel type, Rental cars, Accomidation, Hours of work, Days off, living away allowances, Alcohol, Cash, Phone use etc. One rule my wife loved was every two weeks they would fly her out and back at company expense.

No one was allowed to work more than 9 hrs per day and no more than six days per week.

Eating alone in the restaurant Sucked.

I wouldn't travel unless there was a written agreement in place... that way there will be less misunderstandings.

[JimO]

i wish my boss would send me overseas on a trip but he is a cunt, also im self employed

[merv]

As for a company credit card to pay for all your basic requirements plus a bit of cash for sundry expenses. I travel a lot and when overseas don't count weekends for time in lieu if I wasn't actually working because you are kind of getting a free holiday then anyway. Worked time plus air travel to and from counts in my view. An agreed policy with him would be helpful.

[pete376403]

Ask for a "widely accepted" company credit card. When I was at IBM they issued Diners Club cards, which hardly anyone accepted. Ended up putting a lot of expenses on my own Visa, then claiming it back.

[DangerMice]

Haven't travelled in my current job, but in the last one, if you were required to travel you were issued with an Amex card in your own name. I was responsible for the bill, but everything company related that went on it was able to be claimed back. So you used it for meals, taxis etc, and would only be out of pocket if you went over the allowance.

We used to get NZ$50/day for all meals which was usually plenty, as breakfast was on the hotel, lunch was cheap which left the majority for great dinner/drinks every night.


I think the way to go would be negotiate a per diem rate, then you know what you will get and can budget for it. Doesn't really matter if it's in advance or arrears (as long as you can claim it back before the credit card bill is due).

We were usually expected to travel on the weekend, or early Monday/late Friday. Wasn't counted as time in lieu.

[Blackshear]

i wish my boss would send me overseas on a trip but he is a cunt, also im self employed

Hey dude heads up, I have a feeling one of your employees is thinking about other sources of income :whistle:

[CookMySock]

Hotel, restaurant, hire cars, piss-ups WTF? Gee wait until you are self-employed, then you live on fruit and sleep at a backpackers. I'd say you have it easy.

Steve

[SixPackBack]

Hotel, restaurant, hire cars, piss-ups WTF? Gee wait until you are self-employed, then you live on fruit and sleep at a backpackers. I'd say you have it easy.

Steve

....................Or ice cream.

[ynot slow]

Can't comment on overseas but my travels for work usually end up all paid for .accomodation,flights,meals,either by my boss or the companieswanting us to get product info to sell their products.

I was asked to go to our satelite factory to look after the new apprentice while the other went to polytech,was away Mon-Fri given company van to take work to and fro,breakfast,bed and dinner all allowed and even given $30 extra per week(was 1983) to pay for lunch(which wasn't needed due to copious breakies)so ended using the beer money for beer not lunches.This helped when unions were in vogue,mind you the apparel one was useless.

As an apprentice the firm would give us a top up towards our board as we did 3 week courses at Auckland,this amount would decrease as we recieved our 6 month pay increases.

If your boss wants you to go overseas then ask what he is prepared to offer regarding work hours,money needed,lodgings etc.

[vifferman]

I don't want to rock the boat, I just want to get some sort of standard in place so if I'm going away, I know this is what I'll have.
It really sounds like you need to talk to him, and sort this out sooner rather than later. That will reduce resentment on your part (and mean for less worries/distractions when you're away), and mens that there's less potential for disagreement about what is/is not covered as far as expenses go. It's fair AND reasonable for him to pay for all expenses above and beyond what you'd incur if you were in NZ: accommodation, travel, at least some of your meals (I mean, you normally eat in NZ, right?). If he pays you something above that, great. If he pays you less, or you end up being out of pocket as a result of travel, that's obviously not good for you, but neither is it good for him, as you won't be a happy employee.

Hotel, restaurant, hire cars, piss-ups WTF? Gee wait until you are self-employed, then you live on fruit and sleep at a backpackers.
Steve
Huh?
When I was self-employed, it was largely charged out at $60/hour, plus ALL expenses (costs of travel to/from the job, plus $20/hour for the trip there; accommodation, meals, materials, anything else I saw fit to add to the bill).
What sort of boss are you? I suggest you fire yourself and get another boss.

NotSteve.

[smoky]

Perhaps you could look at it from another perspective;
You're looking at things from a very prescribed ideal - lets find out what I am entitled to, if not lets put an agreement together. Thats all good if you're in a larger company or working for the public service.

But in the real world; if you're boss is sending you over seas to represent his company, then he must have some respect or trust in your ability to do that.
I don't know what your doing over there, or nature of the business you're in, but try to look at what he is trying to achieve, be part of the solution, get in with the game plan and pump it. Forget about stupid rules and rights - learn to live the life you're happy with.
If you start to find you're having to dip into your own pocket to achieve what you need to do - then negotiate to cover those expenses. If it's clipping your social life then make the decision of weather or not you want the job - or need the job.
Give and take a bit - when your employer starts to grizzle you're taking too much then look at what you produce or the benefit you deliver for the company and negotiate from there.

I always say to my boss - don't mussel the ox while it treads the corn

As a general rule we get hotel, breakfast and dinner provided - dinner is two courses and two drinks - but I never stick to it, I sometimes go out with friends and I pay for them all on the company, sometimes they pay. I often drink a bit more than two drinks, but other nights I don't drink anything or even take advantage of the breakfast. I've never been pulled up for not following the rules because I don't abuse it with excess, and I do my job well - the benefit out ways the accountants headache making sense of my expenses.
If you're away on the weekend - it all depends on if you're working or not, if not then you don't get any credit for it unless your away for more than 3 weeks then the weekend gets added as 1 day on to your holidays

But to be honest I don't care about stuff like that - I enjoy myself while away, I spend shit loads more while I'm away than I do when I'm at home - drinking every night, night clubs 3 or 4 nights a week, porn channels cost a lot you know, prostitutes, massage parlors, strip joints - it's not cheap.

But I'm having a ball

[Beemer]

i wish my boss would send me overseas on a trip but he is a cunt, also im self employed

Same here! And the only overseas trips I've ever had with any jobs were from Wellington to the South Island!

But I think something like $50-$100NZ a day wouldn't be unreasonable for overseas travel - it would cover your meals and give you an allowance for being away from home.

[Max Preload]

The last overseas work I did was last millenium (mainly because I've been self-employed since before the turn of the century and I'm not interested in travelling beyond our borders for work because I don't have to). They paid for everything and $150 per diem and I wouldn't accept anything less now. Remember whom is doing whom the favour.

[retro asian]

I was taught that the rule of thumb was you could buy a restaurant meal and one or two drinks on the company. Drinks in excess of that should be paid for yourself.

For any other expenses (parking, taxis, accomodation e.t.c) the company should definitely pay. The way we do it is by using a co credit card and saving the receipts of non-credit card expenses. It's a good Idea to reconcile the receipts every night in the hotel room, as they can build up.
When I get back, the company refunds me on all the receipts.
Its nice if the company gives you some cash beforehand though.

[warewolf]

Don't know that there are any fixed rights in this matter. Definitely negotiate up front; sounds like the biggest issue is the uncertainty. Sort that first, perhaps let the boss know it is stressing you - which means reduced focus on the job at hand. Maybe agree a minimum per diem float, notwithstanding a reconciliation to the categories later.

Many of my big business trips have been with big corporates. Their rules were formalised and published (esp. regarding hotel stars and flight class), but basically came down to: you are expected to provide your own lunch per normal (unless a dept outing or whatnot) and incur expenses per a prudent traveler/as if you were paying for it/to suit the business goal. Working for a brewing conglomerate meant that alcohol was never frowned on, in fact you were expected to share. :2thumbsup Your own - or the company's - credit card funded things, although hotel bills often went on the company account.

Time-wise, well I was salaried and worked lots of overtime anyway. They certainly got their worth from me, doing lots of computer stuff outside office hours to minimise disruption. They threw in a few bonuses here and there but the nature of my work meant little time for touristing and lots of unpaid overtime. Dining/pubbing/clubbing was considered 'product/customer analysis' so was paid for.