Chain/sprockets pricing

[paddy]

I'm going to have a ring for quotes around tomorrow, but I thought I'd ask here first: what is a reasonable price for a new chain and sprockets (front and rear) fitted? Is there anything that I need to look out for or anything I should be asking for?

I am also wanting to take the gear ratio down by about half a gear. I have no idea what the gaps are between the gears (or indeed if they are even). Is there a voice of experience out there that could take a stab in the dark as to how much to increase the size of the rear sprocket by (going down a tooth on the front seems a little drastic)?

Oh, the bike is a '97 DR250.

Thanks,
Patrick

[Waihou Thumper]

I'm going to have a ring for quotes around tomorrow, but I thought I'd ask here first: what is a reasonable price for a new chain and sprockets (front and rear) fitted? Is there anything that I need to look out for or anything I should be asking for?

I am also wanting to take the gear ratio down by about half a gear. I have no idea what the gaps are between the gears (or indeed if they are even). Is there a voice of experience out there that could take a stab in the dark as to how much to increase the size of the rear sprocket by (going down a tooth on the front seems a little drastic)?

Oh, the bike is a '97 DR250.

Thanks,
Patrick

I have just done the chain on my Husaberg. I took it off and soaked it, cleaned it and put it back on but the joining link has broken. I need to get another or fasten it the other way, which I really prefer.
I went down to a 40 tooth rear from a 48, didn't change the front, which is a 14. It is great until you put it in 6th and then she labours a bit. I am going back to the 48/14 combination and with the correct tyres it will be better.

The ratios are out there but you are right, there is a wealth of talent on here from guys with these bikes and at the end of the day I guess you want something that if you change you don't have to keep pulling the chain off but just change the front sprocket?

I thought it was a bit difficult to do at first as I am a newbie too, used to do the racing bike all the time so I thought it might be similar but just bigger chain. It is...
I learnt to do it and have had fun trying and making mistakes along the way. I still roll the bike down the hill when I have issues and the shop is great to finish and correct some of my little blunders..:Oops:
Good luck and I am sure you will get it done and it will be perfect for the riding you do.

[warewolf]

Massive subject! Prices on chain & sprockets varies wildly as does quality. X-ring chains last better than o-ring. DID VM2 is a good mid-quality mid-weight x-ring. Many chains are sold in 120 link lengths, which you shorten to suit. You can usually save a few dollars if you buy the actual length that you need. Another decision you need to make is for a rivetted (permanent) link, or a clip-link.

The gear spacing is wildly different. Lower gears are widely spaced, narrowing as you go up through the gearbox.

Std gearing on my 2001 DR-Z250 was 14/42. 1T up front is roughly equivalent (exact in this case) to 3T at the rear. So 1 or 2T at the rear is like a half-tooth up front.

On-road I found the std gearing to be too short, the main issue was passing in 3rd/4th topping out, so I went bigger at the front for 15/42, it just felt better everywhere. I had a second set of wheels for use in the forest with a 46T rear sprocket and a smaller 13T front sprocket. 112L chain worked for both those combos.

So in effect, I went 1T bigger for road use, and 2-3T smaller for off-road use. What do you want to use the bike for?? Adventure is a huge compromise so you may want to only go from 42 to 44 at the rear. BUT do check your original gearing, there were a few variants ex-factory.

Edit: Oh, and you can probably buy a chain breaker for the cost of getting a shop to do the install. If you go for a clip link, you won't need any special tools to fit it, but there are some tricks to getting it done right.

[paddy]

I thought it was a bit difficult to do at first as I am a newbie too, used to do the racing bike all the time so I thought it might be similar but just bigger chain. It is...
I learnt to do it and have had fun trying and making mistakes along the way. I still roll the bike down the hill when I have issues and the shop is great to finish and correct some of my little blunders..:Oops:

I was originally planning to do it myself, but the more I looked into it the more I realised I was missing some significant tools, like large spanners/sockets, torque wrenches, and presses for staking chain pins. I thought it would be good to get to a spanner night some time and do it (and therefore learn at the same time) but both the chain an sprockets are pretty poked, so I might just get it "done" this time round.

[Waihou Thumper]

If you go for a clip link, you won't need any special tools to fit it, but there are some tricks to getting it done right.

Mine snapped in half today, what is the trick then please? It is very tight in the spring and how do you get it on then? I know which way is the best but I now have the link but no spring to put on, going to have to wheel it down the hill again..:argh:

Thanks..

[warewolf]

IIRC the only large spanner you need is for the rear axle. Surely you've got one of those in your tool bag with the bike? The Front sprocket is held on by a circlip init? Circlip pliers make the job easy but it can be done without. You don't really need a torque wrench, any money the shop won't bother! Loctite 243 for the rear sprocket nuts... that's it.

If you don't want to buy a chain breaker, buy a 112L clip-link chain, hacksaw the old one off. Substitute pliers/vice grips for the chain breaker to press the new one together (carefully, don't munt the o/x-rings). Press together, fit clip link, then press back out to load the clip link - that helps it to not fall off. Some chain breaker kits include the rivetting tool, if you do want to go that route.

Or see if someone in AKL will give you a hand! Put up a request in the Frame – Suspension - Final Drive. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=72) forum.

[warewolf]

Mine snapped in half today, what is the trick then please? It is very tight in the spring and how do you get it on then? I know which way is the best but I now have the link but no spring to put on,Make sure the chain is pressed together well, so the link is not loaded when you fit it. Press the chain out again afterwards to hold the clip firmly. I've tried lock-wire, RTV silicone, neither worked, but the aforementioned trick seems to.

Clip links can wear out before the rest of the chain, I've read up to 3 links per chain but I've never replaced one, nor lost one, except on a Triumph 900 when the chain wore out and stretched to buggery. The link wasn't long enough to span the pins and popped off - somewhere between Adelaide and Canberra!! :Oops:

[wickle]

Try looking here
http://www.z1enterprises.com/reference/chainsprockets.aspx

[clint640]

Substitute pliers/vice grips for the chain breaker to press the new one together (carefully, don't munt the o/x-rings). Press together, .

Yep. Put a nut over the outer end of the pin under the jaws of your vice grips/ big pliers as you squeeze the side plate on, work each end on a little at a time.

Cheers
Clint

[paddy]

Another decision you need to make is for a rivetted (permanent) link, or a clip-link.

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of this is that a clip-link chain is easier to repair in the field, but that a riveted chain is strong and less likely to break (or wear at the master link and stretch). Bear in mind, google is my sole source of information here.


So in effect, I went 1T bigger for road use, and 2-3T smaller for off-road use. What do you want to use the bike for?? Adventure is a huge compromise so you may want to only go from 42 to 44 at the rear. BUT do check your original gearing, there were a few variants ex-factory.

Hmmm. Currently mine is 14T/42T. Unfortunately I have no way of knowing what is correct though. The local dealer has no listing for my year. It has a six speed box and what I am noticing this that it feels a bit over-geared. Off-road 1st seems a little high. On the road, sometimes changing down from 6th to 5th will actually increase my top speed. Having said that, I do an awful lot of road Ks (around 500km per week) so I don't want to be reving the heck out of the machine just to maintain 100 km. I had an experienced MX rider crash start it once for me, and he noted that the gearing was VERY high. He said he should have probably used first where he would have used either 2nd or 3rd on an MX bike.

My bigest problem is that the bike has no tachometer, so I have way of just sitting with a calculator and figuring this all out. What I probably want to do is decrease the gearing by around half the distance between 5th and 6th. That should make it more comfortable off the road without destroying my crusing ability. I had thought perhaps going do a 44T rear might achieve that (effecting around two-thirds of the change that changing the whole front sproket would have. I guess the alternative is to get a couple of front sprockets (which are easy to change without taking out the rear wheel) and play around with it.

To that end, I wonder if a 45T on the rear would be a good idea. Then I can try both a 14T and a 15T on the front. What do people think?[/QUOTE]


Edit: Oh, and you can probably buy a chain breaker for the cost of getting a shop to do the install. If you go for a clip link, you won't need any special tools to fit it, but there are some tricks to getting it done right.

I'm warming to the idea of just giving this a go....


IIRC the only large spanner you need is for the rear axle. Surely you've got one of those in your tool bag with the bike? The Front sprocket is held on by a circlip init? Circlip pliers make the job easy but it can be done without. You don't really need a torque wrench, any money the shop won't bother! Loctite 243 for the rear sprocket nuts... that's it.

The front sprocket is defintiely just a circlip. The spanner that came in the tool bag is a bit of a joke. Whilst it fits the rear wheel nut, I would be surprised if you could budge it. It only provides around 6 or 7 inches of leverage. Vice grips seem to work though... :-)

It more the alen head bolts that hold on the rear sprocket that worry me. I only have allen keys which I wouldn't expect to provide the require tightness. (I have a few allen head bits, but they are very soft metal.)

[paddy]

I just got a quote:

$25 front sprocket
$45 rear sprocket
$179 did vx o-ring chain
$133 labour

It would seem that I could probably buy a chain breaker/riveter, a hardened allen bit, and a bottle of locktite for less than the labour cost. I might post in the final drive forum and see if anyone wants to "supervise". I'm still interested in peoples opinions on ratios though.

[clint640]

It more the alen head bolts that hold on the rear sprocket that worry me. I only have allen keys which I wouldn't expect to provide the require tightness. (I have a few allen head bits, but they are very soft metal.)

You will most likely find some nuts on the back of these allen bolts. Make sure you have the right size ring spanner for them. The allen head end doesn't need much force.




It would seem that I could probably buy a chain breaker/riveter, a hardened allen bit, and a bottle of locktite for less than the labour cost. I might post in the final drive forum and see if anyone wants to "supervise". I'm still interested in peoples opinions on ratios though.

That's the spirit! I'd slap a 45 on the back, then, as you say, you can easily swap back to a 15 on the front & have the same gearing as before. (15/45 = 14/42) Make sure you leave the chain long enough though. I've never had a clip link fail, so I use those cos they're easier.

...& get a proper spanner for that axle bolt ya rough bastard ;)

Cheers
Clint

[YAMASAKI]

http://www.motocross.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=63_67&products_id=584

do it yourself, it's not hard :)
don't tighten the bolts with the allen key(use it to stop the bolt from turning). Tighten the nuts on the back.

[warewolf]

Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of this is that a clip-link chain is easier to repair in the field, but that a riveted chain is strong and less likely to break (or wear at the master link and stretch). That's correct. You are more likely to want to undo a dirt bike chain, eg if you change the gearing (sprocket sizes) and have to add links - once or regularly - by inserting another master link, or maintenance.


Off-road 1st seems a little high. On the road, sometimes changing down from 6th to 5th will actually increase my top speed. Having said that, I do an awful lot of road Ks (around 500km per week) so I don't want to be reving the heck out of the machine just to maintain 100 km. It's only a 250cc 4T; really steep hills in bad weather may need 4th. Keep the air filter spotlessly clean, they lose a lot of top end power otherwise. IIRC mine would pull 6th with a clean filter better than 5th with a dirty filter.

Swapping a circlip-held front sprocket is quick & easy, 'specially if you don't install the sprocket cover (I didn't). The front sprocket works 3x harder than the rear, even if it is made of tougher material you can wear out 2x fronts to one rear - and get the chain and rear to last longer as a result, as the most worn component takes the other two with it. So get two front sprockets in different sizes, run the big fecker during the week on the road, and the little one on the weekends for better off-roading. And save money in the process.


I had an experienced MX rider crash start it once for me, and he noted that the gearing was VERY high. He said he should have probably used first where he would have used either 2nd or 3rd on an MX bike. Yep, but MX is a different world. He'd be running something like 12/52, 'cos he wants punch to launch off a jump 20m away, and isn't ever going anywhere north of about 60 km/h.


My bigest problem is that the bike has no tachometer, so I have way of just sitting with a calculator and figuring this all out. What I probably want to do is decrease the gearing by around half the distance between 5th and 6th. The bike runs out of puff before it hits the rev limiter, so you can safely find where the effective redline is. With 15/42, my bike would do an indicated 145+ (drafting :yes:) and not hit the limiter. Which is to say, you may find you are not revving it as hard as you think.

Data from my '01 DR-Z, not guaranteed to match your bike but highly likely to:

5th: 0.952
6th: 0.826
Halfway = 0.889
Therefore drop 6th (ie overall gearing) by: 7.10%

Now, a 14T front means every tooth is 7.14% (1/14th)...
so a 13T will drop you near enough to 7.10%
13/42 = 3.23, also 14/45 = 3.21, again near enough


To that end, I wonder if a 45T on the rear would be a good idea. Then I can try both a 14T and a 15T on the front. What do people think?Looks like it to me! :D

Either 13/42 & 14/42, or 14/45 & 15/45 will do what you want. The decision may come down to availability, you may only have a choice from 42, 44 & 46T. But also, a 45T rear will let you go 13/45 for more serious forest/single-track work, ie add a third (and lower) ratio.


The spanner that came in the tool bag is a bit of a joke. Whilst it fits the rear wheel nut, I would be surprised if you could budge it. It only provides around 6 or 7 inches of leverage.Also should have an extension sleeve resulting in more like 10" which will work fine when you step on it.

Hope this helps! :sunny: