Eddie Lawson...

[Crasherfromwayback]

My racing hero along with Mick Doohan.

So it seems...Eddie was right waaaay back then. The 800's are faster round the race track...but they're crashing them more often than they did the Thous.

High cornering speed is what hurts racers when it all goes wrong..not brute HP like the Thous had. And they (the Thous) sure were great to watch. Lets bring 'em back minus the traction control! Save those racers picking straw outta their ass a week later!!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2004/apr/onthisweek6.htm

[eelracing]

My racing hero along with Mick Doohan.


High cornering speed is what hurts racers when it all goes wrong..not brute HP like the Thous had. And they (the Thous) sure were great to watch. Lets bring 'em back minus the traction control! Save those racers picking straw outta their ass a week later!!




A-friggen-men to that,but can't help thinking that without traction control the result would be Rossi first and daylight second.Would love to see the opportunity to be proved wrong tho.

Eddie sure came up with some good ones.

[slowpoke]

I dunno, it's an impossible comparison. Tyres, rider aids, chassis, engine design, you name it and it's improved significantly over the last couple of years so you can't definitively say 800's are faster than 990's.

It's a track specific thing anyway. Some lighter configurations with less horsepower are going to suit some tracks, with brute horsepower ruling others. During the 990 days there was nothing stopping someone building a lighter bike with less cylinders or capacity and you can guarantee some propellor head has plugged all the numbers into a Jesus Box and come up with the age old answer of "no replacement for displacement".

We've got the same scenario at Taupo: over the short circuit a 600 should probably be quicker than a 1000, with it's superior cornering/braking and hardly anywhere to use WOT on the heavier 1000. Take it to Manfeild and the situations are reversed.

Horses for courses.

Remove traction control....and reducing crashes...in the same paragraph? I'm all for removing rider aids but there'll be more busted bodies for sure.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I dunno, it's an impossible comparison. Tyres, rider aids, chassis, engine design, you name it and it's improved significantly over the last couple of years so you can't definitively say 800's are faster than 990's.


Remove traction control....and reducing crashes...in the same paragraph? I'm all for removing rider aids but there'll be more busted bodies for sure.

No...I'm saying that the 800's go round corners quicker than the thous ever did...that's when you get hurt and fly further. That's what Eddie was referring to as well.

And have you not noticed waaaaay more nasty highsides on the 800's compared to the thous mate?

[slowpoke]

No...I'm saying that the 800's go round corners quicker than the thous ever did...that's when you get hurt and fly further. That's what Eddie was referring to as well.

And have you not noticed waaaaay more nasty highsides on the 800's compared to the thous mate?

Sorry mate, I'm not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed....

I'm a bit perplexed by the highsides actually, (although if you take Lorenzo outta the mix things prolly don't look quite so bad) with all the rider assistance I can't quite figure out how it all manages to get so far outta shape. But with the above statement th in mind that's not suprising......

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sorry mate, I'm not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed....

I'm a bit perplexed by the highsides actually, (although if you take Lorenzo outta the mix things prolly don't look quite so bad) with all the rider assistance I can't quite figure out how it all manages to get so far outta shape. But with the above statement th in mind that's not suprising......

All good mate! Yeah Lorenzo certainly earnt frequent flyer points last year. Although I see this year Toseland and Hayden have tried to outfly him already!! 140mph highsides can't be good for your confidence!!

[codgyoleracer]

Yeah, Ive noticed the tyre shape on the 800's is quite steep on the sides now aye. The lean angle demands that they have & the resultant rubber required on the road for those lean angle is the reason.
The are all pretty shakey in a straight line as a result of this also.
The problem is when it lets go (especially at the point just prior to apex - when you have only a little bit of gas rolling on) - then it can all go pear shaped real quick aye.
I would imagine that the people in charge of the engine fuel maps at this moment of throttling on have their jobs cut out for them at every track they go to !
Glen

[GSVR]

My racing hero along with Mick Doohan.

So it seems...Eddie was right waaaay back then. The 800's are faster round the race track...but they're crashing them more often than they did the Thous.

High cornering speed is what hurts racers when it all goes wrong..not brute HP like the Thous had. And they (the Thous) sure were great to watch. Lets bring 'em back minus the traction control! Save those racers picking straw outta their ass a week later!!

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2004/apr/onthisweek6.htm

On that theory the 125s would be lethal!

Closer to home comparing 600s to Thous there certainly seems more crashing going on in 600s. The weight difference is not as much as one would percieve. What is it 20Kgs max?

Easiest way to drop corner speeds is use harder tyres. But will that increase the offs? I think not.

[svr]

On that theory the 125s would be lethal!


They are - check out the red bull cup.
Lawson was one of the few who could stay on a 500 - it was raised back then that `they are 2 fast for safety' - he pointed out that 125s crash / injury rates were higher than 500s. Sliding a rear tire with power is also a lot easier than sliding with corner speed.
As in F1 - corner speed is the issue

[codgyoleracer]

They are - check out the red bull cup.
Lawson was one of the few who could stay on a 500 - it was raised back then that `they are 2 fast for safety' - he pointed out that 125s crash / injury rates were higher than 500s. Sliding a rear tire with power is also a lot easier than sliding with corner speed.
As in F1 - corner speed is the issue

Agreed, your a lucky boy (or stupidly talented) to be saving a drifting 125 on a regular basis........

[Crasherfromwayback]

Agreed, your a lucky boy (or stupidly talented) to be saving a drifting 125 on a regular basis........

I briefly raced an RS250...and they weren't much easier to slide! Say Highside.

[GSVR]

Agreed, your a lucky boy (or stupidly talented) to be saving a drifting 125 on a regular basis........

Obvious safety issue that hasn't been adressed at race level. Good to see at trackdays there are so many sensible riders learning on the much safer litrebikes.

[Motu]

Eddie Lawson learned his trade in the best motorcycle riding school there was,and on nearly the best bikes for the job.

<img src="http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/181/eddielawsononshellthuet.jpg">

[Crasherfromwayback]

Eddie Lawson learned his trade in the best motorcycle riding school there was,and on nearly the best bikes for the job.



No argument from me on that one.

[slowpoke]

On that theory the 125s would be lethal!

Closer to home comparing 600s to Thous there certainly seems more crashing going on in 600s. The weight difference is not as much as one would percieve. What is it 20Kgs max?



Maybe not a huge amount of physical mass difference between 600's and the1000's but the difference in rotating mass is fairly substantial. The gyroscopic effect of that heavier crank, clutch, wheels etc is what makes 1000's harder to turn, and more stable (ignoring big hp trying to screw it in knots).

Taking that to the extreme with a 125GP bike, there's bugger all gyroscopic effect, with incredibly light rotating parts. Hence they are amazingly agile but I guess that agility can work against when you are walking the knife edge on the limit.

[GSVR]

Yeah Gyro effect of a high reving motor has a not unsubstantial effect. And the precession of a crank rotating with the wheels as opposed to the the opposite way. Also the alignment of the three major gyro's in relation to one another.

I think a major benefit of the high powered bikes is the fact you can get on the gas in a slide and maintain the loss of grip but with a 125 theres nothing left. Drifters and dirt riders use this to great effect. But with really sticky tyres its going to all happen in a big hurry.

Motu is onto it.

[Cleve]

not to forget that if we still had 990's with the development that has occured with the 800s over the last few years we would have even more powerful bikes PLUS the same corner speed we have now with the 800's.

[codgyoleracer]

I briefly raced an RS250...and they weren't much easier to slide! Say Highside.

Ime sure youve been on the highside more than once................:-)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ime sure youve been on the highside more than once................:-)

Me? Never.:baby:

[nsrpaul]

Taking that to the extreme with a 125GP bike, there's bugger all gyroscopic effect, with incredibly light rotating parts. Hence they are amazingly agile but I guess that agility can work against when you are walking the knife edge on the limit.

my surgen would agree with that statement

[sugilite]

Eddie was my all time hero and I attempted to model my race style on his :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Eddie was my all time hero and I attempted to model my race style on his :yes:

That'll learn ya. Should've watched me mate!