Who says Asians are bad drivers? [Archive]

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Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:14

Blackshear

14th May 2009, 11:20

I could argue that half of near misses involved either an elderly Asian or elderly white folk. WHY ARE THEY STILL ON THE ROAD, SRSLY.
While not racist, that's just my input.

Finn

14th May 2009, 11:25

Those stats don't show how many people Asians have killed.

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:26

I could argue that half of near misses involved either an elderly Asian or elderly white folk. WHY ARE THEY STILL ON THE ROAD, SRSLY.
While not racist, that's just my input.

Near misses so Kiwi's tend to have less near misses and have accidents then....

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:27

Those stats don't show how many people Asians have killed.

Like I said......."discrimination"

Usarka

14th May 2009, 11:31

Discrimination - that's what I faced at auckland hospital recently. My cultural needs were NOT met by the nursing staff, and I'm very disatisftied.

Lissa

14th May 2009, 11:37

Not sure I am reading it right

So 7% of Asians have caused Fatalities/Accidents

or

7% of Asians have died or been hurt in Accidents (cause of accident unknown)?

Not sure how either of those prove that one Ethnic group is a better driver than the other.

Finn

14th May 2009, 11:40

Like I said......."discrimination"

It's not discrimination. Those stats only show deaths per ethnic group, not deaths caused by ethnics groups. Nor for that matter does it show car ownership by ethnic group.

Discrimination - that's what I faced at auckland hospital recently. My cultural needs were NOT met by the nursing staff, and I'm very disatisftied.

I don't like kumura either.

awayatc

14th May 2009, 11:42

Like I said......."discrimination"

And somehow you believe being able to discriminate is bad?.....
We wouldn' t have evolved as a species without it.

Racism on the other hand is negative.
NOT discrimination...
which is natural....
Positive even

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:44

It's not discrimination. Those stats only show deaths per ethnic group, not deaths caused by ethnics groups. Nor for that matter does it show car ownership by ethnic group.

I don't like kumura either.

It was a snap shot, however, what it is telling us is the percentage of ethnic groups involved in injury / casualty crashes so given the big difference between Asians and European NZers it is not unreasonable to suggest that Asians are not the main culprits / cause of accidents / bad drivers

Finn

14th May 2009, 11:46

And somehow you believe being able to discriminate is bad?.....
We wouldn' t have evolved as a species without it.

Racism on the other hand is negative.
NOT discrimination...
which is natural....
Positive even

Exactly. Why do the stats separate the various ethnic groups?

To point out the obvious here, if I'm stopped at a set of lights and an Asian (or African for that matter) drives straight into me and kills me, Grahameeboy thinks I'm the bad driver? :blink:

steve_t

14th May 2009, 11:46

We really need to have harder practical exams and more regular practical exams especially for people as they become less aware of what's going on around them.
Glad to see asians causing less accidents as a percentage than their percentage of the population, however I still do see a disproportionately high number of dangerous driving incidents caused by older asian women. I guess this is how the stereotypes come to be :blink:

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:46

And somehow you believe being able to discriminate is bad?.....
We wouldn' t have evolved as a species without it.

Racism on the other hand is negative.
NOT discrimination...
which is natural....
Positive even

I think that negative descrimination in the modern world is bad and yes you are right about "evolution" but whether we have truely evolved is sometimes debatable.

Laxi

14th May 2009, 11:46

WHY ARE THEY STILL ON THE ROAD,

my wifes grandad was 78 and still driving, his doctor said he should fail his medical "but as long as he staid local he'd let him pass"????, we finaly disabled his car when I was doing some stuff at his place and he came home with 3 flat tyres, I asked him what he did to get them and he didn't even realise they were flat:blink: turned out he'd run over a traffic island and hadn't noticed that either:blink::blink::blink:

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:47

Finn

14th May 2009, 11:48

I think that negative descrimination in the modern world is bad and yes you are right about "evolution" but whether we have truely evolved is sometimes debatable.

Sounds like a beauty pageant speech.

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:48

Exactly. Why do the stats separate the various ethnic groups?

To point out the obvious here, if I'm stopped at a set of lights and an Asian (or African for that matter) drives straight into me and kills me, Grahameeboy thinks I'm the bad driver? :blink:

I don't know why there seperate.No I am not saying that dummy....

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 11:49

Sounds like a beauty pageant speech.

lol's....................

ManDownUnder

14th May 2009, 11:56

Who says? Me.

Those that come in from various built up locations where owning a car costs a fortune, and public transport is cheap and reliable have no need to drive - so they don't.

I don't attribute it to race, more a simple lack of experience and more buying power. If someone's never needed to drive how can they expect to be good? Combine that with people coming from wealthy economies to NZ where they can afford high priced and (generally) safer cars and we have the situation where Asians can cause a lot of accidents, but escape the injury statistics.

I honestly hold that view but hasten to add it also applies to other rich, low experience drivers like kids in Remmers driving Daddy's Mercedes.

I don't think it's not an ethnic thing per se - i.e. the ethnicity of a driver is not the causal factor... but it happens to manifest in some ethnicities for other less direct reasons.

Bow-Down

14th May 2009, 11:59

Asians are SH*T drivers!

Rayray401

14th May 2009, 12:18

steve_t

14th May 2009, 12:23

And somehow you believe being able to discriminate is bad?.....
We wouldn' t have evolved as a species without it.

Racism on the other hand is negative.
NOT discrimination...
which is natural....
Positive even

Discrimination as in the ability to tell the difference between things isn't what's being discussed. Discrimination as in prejudice (in this case of another race) is.

Experience is definitely a big part. People who come over from London or New York that have taken public transportation all their lives are often just as bad, if not worse... not to mention that we're one of the only countries in the world with the give way if you're turning left rule

HenryDorsetCase

14th May 2009, 12:25

i got T boned at an intersection on Sunday night (we're fine) by a young Asian girl who ran a red light. I believe she was talking on a cellphone. 8 grand of damage to our car (her insurer is paying), ride in an ambulance, cops called whole drama. We have no car for at least a couple of weeks as well.

Silly bitch running around the scene screeching "So solly, my fault my fault" and dialling 111 to roll out the emergency services.

This is the proof of my assertion therefore that Asians cannot drive.

Remember folks: Asian drivers, no survivors.

worst part of the story: I had tickets to the new STar Trek film in my pocket and she made me miss it grrrrrrrrrrr.

Rayray401

14th May 2009, 12:39

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 12:39

Asians are SH*T drivers!

So are Kiwi's.................

Dave Lobster

14th May 2009, 12:39

It doesn't matter where you're from originally.. If you get your driving licence in your Corn Flakes box, and there's no reason to get any training, you're not likely to be all that much cop.

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Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 12:42

Meh, im asian, and i can drive.....just different driving style over here, if you think asians cant drive...go to asia and drive....theyll think you cant drive...over here..tbh..i think its all the asian kids with rich daddys getting Evos and RX8s for their first cars =.=....ohh..and ive lived here for 12 years...not really a fob lol

On the bridge one day a white girl was texting and came oover into my lane...I see more white crap driving because whites don't care and are arrogant...asians just perhaps ignorant at times because of where they come from

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 12:44

Discrimination as in the ability to tell the difference between things isn't what's being discussed. Discrimination as in prejudice (in this case of another race) is.

Experience is definitely a big part. People who come over from London or New York that have taken public transportation all their lives are often just as bad, if not worse... not to mention that we're one of the only countries in the world with the give way if you're turning left rule

Have you driven in London...we still drive cars which is why there is now a toll to slow congestion....

Rayray401

14th May 2009, 12:47

when i was in italy...farrrr 8 lane round about...no white lines at all...dont know whats what..and this was rush hour too..in taiwan..scooters everywhere..weaving all over..cars lane split..

Brian d marge

14th May 2009, 12:48

European males New zealanders should just HTFU and accept they are crap drivers , period, too much testosterone and the me factor .

A least Popcorn Sutton was proud of being a Redneck. and his Pappy made the finest shine !

and by driving it doesn't mean car control it means road-craft !

Stephen

one of them instructional videos,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj52DDdCwFI

driving safety video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inbmJy0xJgk

marioc

14th May 2009, 12:50

I think its the accidents they cause that would be a better stat

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 13:14

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 13:17

I think its the accidents they cause that would be a better stat

You reckon that 9% of the population has that kinda impact then.On way to work I saw:10 cars ignore a red light.6 cars blocking a junction1 cyclist ignoring a red light.8 cars not indicating1 car along side me as on ramp narrowed and they could have slotted in behind me...2 drivers textingNot a brown face amongst them....

Dave Lobster

14th May 2009, 13:20

FactsUK Population - 61million / 2,496 road deaths = 4.8 per 100,000 pop.NZ Population - 4.3million / 424 road deaths = 9.8 per 100,000 pop.Not a pretty sight when you consider that the average speed limits in NZ are lower.

We could try raising them, and watch the accident rate fall. It's happened in other countries where they've raised it. Why not here?

Patch

14th May 2009, 13:31

Kiwi Discrimination.
ever tried walking ya kids to school? guess who don't like to cue, push past and show general contempt in their chosen adopted country - same thing when they pull out in front of you on the road.
Don't even start on the language thing.

bloody slopes.

HenryDorsetCase

14th May 2009, 13:35

Lol, guts for you HDC, get better bah. and i agree with young female asian drivers...they not careful enough..dont look...end up with OOPS...next thing you know...us asians cant drive...i mean..ive never crashed before...only time ive crashed was on my bike..where i got T boned by a 93 yo white guy..

Everyone I know has said to me "Good thing you werent on your motorbike" Hell yes! Though a minging cold night pissing with rain means it would be unlikely I would be out on the bike.

Its not like the silly bitch could say "I didnt even see the light" She lived literally 500m from the intersection where she took us out.

Also, ABS brakes work as advertised. If I hadnt got on the brakes HARD I think she would have nailed the passenger door. With my beloved sitting right there. Had that happened: different outcome... I'd more than likely be sitting in the cells next to David Bain.

Also its not just Asians that can't drive. 1 in 100 drivers in this country are competent. (And most of them post on KB it seems)

Meh, shit happens in the big city. Cops were great though, and I got a follow up call this morning. She is being prosecuted which I also approve of. Dont think she's getting deported but.

Flatcap

14th May 2009, 13:42

You reckon that 9% of the population has that kinda impact then.On way to work I saw:10 cars ignore a red light.6 cars blocking a junction1 cyclist ignoring a red light.8 cars not indicating1 car along side me as on ramp narrowed and they could have slotted in behind me...2 drivers textingNot a brown face amongst them....

....were they all yellow faces then...?

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 13:56

We could try raising them, and watch the accident rate fall. It's happened in other countries where they've raised it. Why not here?

I agree...it is 50k or 100k here (with a few 80k's chucked in) whereas in say the UK they gradiate the speed in a zone varying from 30mph, 40mph and 50mph so drivers don't go from doing 50kph to 100kph...I think iit make a difference plus drivers will not get so frustrated etc...We have so many dual lane roads here with a 50kph limit...passing lanes still at 100kph..why not have a 120kph limit for motorways and passing lane zones and say a 70kph limit on dual lane roads where the area allows it..so not 70kph on Hobson Street but maybe along parts of Tamaki Drive..

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 13:57

....were they all yellow faces then...?

No red with guilt.................

ManDownUnder

14th May 2009, 14:00

FactsUK Population - 61million / 2,496 road deaths = 4.8 per 100,000 pop.NZ Population - 4.3million / 424 road deaths = 9.8 per 100,000 pop.Not a pretty sight when you consider that the average speed limits in NZ are lower.

But how many deaths per 100,000km driven? Again - I contend the use of public transport is a moderating factor here. Less deaths per 100k people because there's a lower percentage of people actually on the road.

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 14:02

ever tried walking ya kids to school? guess who don't like to cue, push past and show general contempt in their chosen adopted country - same thing when they pull out in front of you on the road.
Don't even start on the language thing.

bloody slopes.

Rubbish....not just limited to Asians....never seen an Asian abusing a Mobility Parking Bay....why because they have been educated by higher fines than iin NZ....bit plenty of white folk do it without a care.Asia is more highly populated so this is probably the norm for them, NZ is not and they are no better...ever had someone hold a lift for you...

Brian d marge

14th May 2009, 14:05

Ma grand pappy Taught me to drive .. Yeeeeeehaaaaa

he be the one on the front ( without the gun )

Stephen

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 14:11

But how many deaths per 100,000km driven? Again - I contend the use of public transport is a moderating factor here. Less deaths per 100k people because there's a lower percentage of people actually on the road.

Aaha....92000 km of paved roads in NZ and 308,000 km of paved road in UK.I think you will find that the average mileage in UK is 15,872kms per year so I doubt a lot different to NZ....we don't all live in Kumeu...lolIf you have ever driven in UK which I am sure you have, say M25 you will see a lot of people driving too work

Maha

14th May 2009, 14:15

Ma grand pappy Taught me to drive .. Yeeeeeehaaaaa

he be the one on the front ( without the gun )

Stephen

Its that the 'Hole in the Wall Gang'??....think I can make out Butch Carridy and Rundance at the back.

Beemer

14th May 2009, 14:16

Just a snap shot but seems to dispell the usual Kiwi Discrimination.Dec 2007Number of Road Casualties / Fatalities by Ethnic Group (% of Population)Asians 7% (9.2%)European 69% (67.6%)Maori 17% (14.6%)Pacific 5% (6.9)Others 2% (1.7)Locals win...

Yes, but what are the percentages of each of those groups in the population? I'm pretty sure Maori don't make up 17% of the total population - but then they are over-represented in the crime statistics too. But I find 5% for Pacific peoples odd as I bet there are shitloads more of them around than Maori, especially in Auckland. Maybe they lump them all in as Maori?

Patch

14th May 2009, 14:20

ever had someone hold a lift for you...
yup - she was pretty cute too

so just because they don't steal your park, its ok to ignore all the other shit they do/cause/don't do??

We could start on those bloody islanders - they're just as fuckin bad, just gotta keep 'em off the white man's plonk

Brian d marge

14th May 2009, 15:17

Its that the 'Hole in the Wall Gang'??....think I can make out Butch Carridy and Rundance at the back.

No that be grand pappy Hatfield ........the best god damn driver in the south , his great grandfather Great great grand pappy Hatfield was the best horse and cart driver in all the catlains

Stephen

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 21:06

Yes, but what are the percentages of each of those groups in the population? I'm pretty sure Maori don't make up 17% of the total population - but then they are over-represented in the crime statistics too. But I find 5% for Pacific peoples odd as I bet there are shitloads more of them around than Maori, especially in Auckland. Maybe they lump them all in as Maori?

Yeah weird cause I didn't think there were any full Maori left so where did
17 % come from....beats me

Grahameeboy

14th May 2009, 21:07

yup - she was pretty cute too

so just because they don't steal your park, its ok to ignore all the other shit they do/cause/don't do??

We could start on those bloody islanders - they're just as fuckin bad, just gotta keep 'em off the white man's plonk

I reckon us Whites started the shit in the first place....

xwhatsit

15th May 2009, 02:01

Yes, but what are the percentages of each of those groups in the population? I'm pretty sure Maori don't make up 17% of the total population - but then they are over-represented in the crime statistics too.
Er... that's the numbers in the brackets after each percentage :doh: I thought you worked with words? :D

Most dangerous people on the road -- 40-50 year-old man in a business shirt, driving company car.

RocKai

15th May 2009, 05:02

Its not like the silly bitch could say "I didnt even see the light" She lived literally 500m from the intersection where she took us out.
Henry, I think you should HTFU and be grateful that she said "Solly" and "Paid" for your damage. If a white bitch had hit you argue her way out of it and make you pay for the damage on her car. Seriously, the arrogance just don't compare.

I live in Wellington and generally Asian drivers I see on the road are not as bad as White drivers, Brown drivers bar the boy racers. The worst drivers on the road are young girls, old womens, couriers.

Red light runners are generally white in most cases I've seen. I beg to differ but it's an opinionated society we have. I even say to myself Asian drivers are shite but it's only a few of them who have little driving experience who caused accident. The major of accidents caused are from other factors than races.

P.S. Star Trek was great. Chew on that ticket. And I'm Asian. Bwahaha

alanzs

15th May 2009, 06:51

People rag on asian drivers going too slow but I'd rather have a slow driver on the road than an insane fast one... JMHO... :doh:

Marmoot

15th May 2009, 13:50

Problem seems systemic, not isolated to particular race.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10572387

* 40 per cent of men knowingly exceed the speed limit.
* 25 per cent of both men and women say they are impatient drivers.
* 25 per cent of men have momentarily fallen asleep at the wheel.
* 24 per cent of men said they have tailgated another motorist out of anger compared with 17 per cent of women.

Not sure on the race for this one (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10572473)

Look at this weirdlooking asian (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10572382)

An example of no-asian-crash. Note: I am not implying that he's a bad rider at all. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571975)

Example of one involving no NZers (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571701)

Not sure about this (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10571434)

Drivers and their cellphones. Asians and non-asians alike. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/2413278/Tui-texting-billboard-pulled-down-after-complaint)

Just an example that the driving problem is systemic. There is no supermodel without an arsehole on her. The same way, there is no driving world without arseholes tainting it.

Those that highlights Asians only remember them just because they look different. It is always easier to notice a red dot in the middle of a white paper.

gatch

15th May 2009, 17:02

Ma grand pappy Taught me to drive .. Yeeeeeehaaaaa

he be the one on the front ( without the gun )

Stephen

I love the photo man, the dudes in the background pointing pistols at kids heads lol. And the dude with the shotgun ? pointing it straight at the other dudes spam-javelin. Wouldn't wanna fuck with that family lol.

Edit - Bwaaahahahahaha just noticed the kid in front with the pistol, also pointed at that poor mans trouser snake..

gatch

15th May 2009, 17:05

People rag on asian drivers going too slow but I'd rather have a slow driver on the road than an insane fast one... JMHO... :doh:

I'd rather be insane and driving fast, these roads are mine FTW.

The Stranger

15th May 2009, 17:24

It was a snap shot, however, what it is telling us is the percentage of ethnic groups involved in injury / casualty crashes so given the big difference between Asians and European NZers it is not unreasonable to suggest that Asians are not the main culprits / cause of accidents / bad drivers

Bullshit.
It tells us nothing of the percentage of asians in the general population, nor is there a comparison of the number of KM travelled by each group. Even with that there would be so many other variables not covered that it is useless.

What we can tell from this however is some people are very easily to mislead with statistics.

Marmoot

15th May 2009, 17:26

What we can tell from this however is some people are very easily to mislead with statistics.

The sole purpose of statistics is to support your assertion.

As such, there is no such thing as ambiguity in statistics. The meanings are always definite, depending on where you approach them.

xwhatsit

15th May 2009, 21:25

Bullshit.
It tells us nothing of the percentage of asians in the general population, nor is there a comparison of the number of KM travelled by each group. Even with that there would be so many other variables not covered that it is useless.

What we can tell from this however is some people are very easily to mislead with statistics.
Am I missing something? Did you miss something? Did I miss missing something?

The percentage of ethnic group in the general population is the number in the brackets after the first numbers.

I've posted that twice now. I must've missed something and now look like a fool.

In terms of being misled by statistics, those statistics are about as plain and bare as you get. Percentage of road casualties/fatalities by ethnic group -- one number, and percentage of that same ethnic group in the general population, another number. Given that there's no interpretation of them (other than Gaymeboy's), if you just take the numbers as they are, what do you see that's wrong with them? Obviously, car ownership rates/miles driven by ethnic group would be interesting to see. Taking those factors into account (so allowing a few percentage points either way), road casualties seem pretty much aligned with what you'd expect from their percentage of general population (apart from Maori, who are well over what you would expect). I.e. there's sweet fuck-all difference.

Here's the statistics reformatted for people who don't read too well:
    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=UTF-8"> <title></title> <style type="text/css">  </style> <table style="border: 1pt solid ; width: 100%; border-collapse: collapse; empty-cells: show; table-layout: fixed;" border="0" cellpadding="0"> <colgroup> <col> <col> <col> </colgroup> <tbody style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <tr style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Ethnicity
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Road casualties makeup
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Percentage of general population
</td> </tr> <tr style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Asian
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 7%
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 9.2%
</td> </tr> <tr style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> European
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 69%
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 67.6%
</td> </tr> <tr style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Maori
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 17%
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 14.6%
</td> </tr> <tr style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Pacific
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 5%
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 6.9%
</td> </tr> <tr style="border: inherit inherit inherit;"> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> Others
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 2%
</td> <td style="padding: 0pt;"> 1.7%
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

At the end of the day, all of those percentages are close enough to their makeup in the general population to say there's no difference. Asians seem to be having slightly less road fatalities than they should (but car ownership rates could be skewing that) and Europeans and Maoris seem to be having more road fatalities than they should (but Europeans and Maoris love to drive and own cars so that would skew that too).

YellowDog

15th May 2009, 21:38

I don't like the term 'Asian' as it implies than an Indian, Pakistani, Malaysian, Japanese, and a Chinaman (plus a hundred other countries) are all the same. Quite insulting really. And as for AustralASIANs..........

So lets not be racist. Let's be racist AND sexist. My observation is that female car drivers of oriental extraction are (in my experience) CRAP DRIVERS.

The Stranger

15th May 2009, 21:40

Am I missing something? Did you miss something? Did I miss missing something?

The percentage of ethnic group in the general population is the number in the brackets after the first numbers.

I am wrong on that count - You are quite correct, however, it still does not however address the distance travelled or a number of other points.

xwhatsit

15th May 2009, 23:02

I am wrong on that count - You are quite correct, however, it still does not however address the distance travelled or a number of other points.
That's quite right. However you would think it'd make a vast difference (say, more than a few percentage points). And on the other hand, given that Maoris probably don't drive substantially more than Europeans (maybe even less? Given lower socio-economic status etc.) and the fact they have so much more crashes than their population makeup then it's clear that we should all be terrified of Maoris behind the wheel if we're going to start pointing fingers :eek:

The Stranger

16th May 2009, 00:05

However you would think it'd make a vast difference (say, more than a few percentage points). And on the other hand, given that Maoris probably don't drive substantially more than Europeans (maybe even less? Given lower socio-economic status etc.) and the fact they have so much more crashes than their population makeup then it's clear that we should all be terrified of Maoris behind the wheel if we're going to start pointing fingers :eek:

Hmm, you would profess to know what I think?

Sorry, who was pointing fingers?
It looks to me that you are the racist here singling out Maori for being poor and bad drivers without any hard evidence provided.

xwhatsit

16th May 2009, 00:23

Hmm, you would profess to know what I think?

Sorry, who was pointing fingers?
It looks to me that you are the racist here singling out Maori for being poor and bad drivers without any hard evidence provided.
Lol what? `However you would think' is a figure of speech meaning much the same thing as `However one would think'. `You' is general, not you in particular, Stranger.

My point about Maori is that if we're going to start using those statistics to say `Asians are bad drivers' as some here have been (not you, don't get in a tizzy again) then according to those statistics Maori are worse. You don't see people saying `Maori are shit drivers' though, so clearly there's something at odds with the anecdotal vs. statistics viewpoints. For the record I think it's all a crock of shit and the differences between crash percentages and population percentages are so minor as to be ignored. On the road it's less ethnicity that makes me shit my daks; more the style of car the driver in question is sitting in.

Christ you're a hard person to have a conversation with :laugh: I'm not taking shots at you.

The Stranger

16th May 2009, 01:30

Lol what? `However you would think' is a figure of speech meaning much the same thing as `However one would think'. `You' is general, not you in particular, Stranger.

My point about Maori is that if we're going to start using those statistics to say `Asians are bad drivers' as some here have been (not you, don't get in a tizzy again) then according to those statistics Maori are worse. You don't see people saying `Maori are shit drivers' though, so clearly there's something at odds with the anecdotal vs. statistics viewpoints. For the record I think it's all a crock of shit and the differences between crash percentages and population percentages are so minor as to be ignored. On the road it's less ethnicity that makes me shit my daks; more the style of car the driver in question is sitting in.

Christ you're a hard person to have a conversation with :laugh: I'm not taking shots at you.

Well, how's about, for future reference, if you aren't including me and you are not referring to me and not taking shots at me AND you don't want a hard conversation you consider not quoting me. Because silly old me somehow thought that the purpose of quoting a post was to address the issues raised in that post and therfore by extension the one whom posted it.

Just a thought.

A tizzy? You give yourself Waaaay too much credit. You are simply a bit of light entertainmet, something to be toyed with when I'm feeling a touch bored.

Brian d marge

16th May 2009, 03:04

I love the photo man, the dudes in the background pointing pistols at kids heads lol. And the dude with the shotgun ? pointing it straight at the other dudes spam-javelin. Wouldn't wanna fuck with that family lol.

Edit - Bwaaahahahahaha just noticed the kid in front with the pistol, also pointed at that poor mans trouser snake..

Look up hatfields and mc coys these boys were the original imbreds
They are on u tube
Trust the Americans to make a mountain from a molehill, we in England had some real imbreds

Stephen

The Stranger

16th May 2009, 08:52

FactsUK Population - 61million / 2,496 road deaths = 4.8 per 100,000 pop.NZ Population - 4.3million / 424 road deaths = 9.8 per 100,000 pop.Not a pretty sight when you consider that the average speed limits in NZ are lower.

You are a model citizen, just buy into all the tripe the govt feed you.
Learn to think for yourself man.

First off, there is no comparison of average distance travelled.
NZ has the second highest MV ownership rate in the world and according to some reports about double the UK. If the distance travelled is along the lines of ownership you have your answer as to why the apparent disparity.

A substantial portion of the fleet is quite old and as such safety standards tend to be lower.

Speaking of safety standards. When the govt commissioned a report into why the big disparity such as pointed out in your post it was buried - as it didn't conform to the pre-determined outcomes of speed and bad driving.

In there it was noted that there was a distinct lack of safety requirements. For example, things like side intrusion beams, which were standard in many countries are not required (nor were they provided) in the same NZ models. I know some of that changed when the media got hold of parts of the report, however they are still not mandatory.
There was a lot of other stuff that was leaked also - little gems like it was calculated that if everyone drove with their seat 1" further back it would decrease the death and injury rate significantly. Some do have this option and could exercise it if they were aware of it.

The point being however, experts have looked into this and all we know about the study is that a) it was buried and b) it reported a lot of problems other than driver and speed.

scumdog

16th May 2009, 11:37

Just a snap shot but seems to dispell the usual Kiwi Discrimination.Dec 2007Number of Road Casualties / Fatalities by Ethnic Group (% of Population)Asians 7% (9.2%)European 69% (67.6%)Maori 17% (14.6%)Pacific 5% (6.9)Others 2% (1.7)Locals win...

Can't be naffed reading all the thread BUT: What percentage of the total NZ population is represented by these groups??

OK, just saw post #58.

Shadows

16th May 2009, 23:52

Just a snap shot but seems to dispell the usual Kiwi Discrimination.Dec 2007Number of Road Casualties / Fatalities by Ethnic Group (% of Population)Asians 7% (9.2%)European 69% (67.6%)Maori 17% (14.6%)Pacific 5% (6.9)Others 2% (1.7)Locals win...

Whoever published those figures either had intent to mislead or was simply too stupid to come up with a decent study covering the many variables. Whoever it was left out too much important data for the figures to have any real meaning.

Most of the Asians in NZ live in pocket communities within Auckland's urban limits. They only have to shuffle next door to say "wing wong waaaah" to their mates and eat sweet and sour cat while they do their paua poaching deals over a bottle of kawasaki and a deck of cards. They don't spend much time driving across or out of town to see people that live in the general community and they are big users of public transport anyway. It's the occasional times when they do get out of the urban limits in their cars (probably lost, because they couldn't read the road signs because they couldn't be bothered learning the language of the country they've infested) that the fun really begins.

I'm actually alarmed about the above data. Taking the other facts into account I'm surprised that the casualty / population ratio is so high for that group. They must be even more of a threat on our roads than I imagined.

Headbanger

17th May 2009, 00:30

I'm willing to believe all people with a different shade of skin then me are killers on the road.

Don't even need any statistics, Wild claims are fine by me.

Damn Asians, and their fancy motor vehicles.Damn them all to hell.

Which kind of works, seeing as they aren't Christians they are already condemned to eternal hell-fire.

retro asian

17th May 2009, 21:31

Those stats don't show how many people Asians have killed.

Sure we crash a lot and scrape our car up good... but we never drive fast enough to kill anyone

Dave Lobster

18th May 2009, 06:51

Sure we crash a lot and scrape our car up good... but we never drive fast enough to kill anyone

80km/h on an empty northern motorway, swerving between the lanes while tapping text messages to another empty headed teenage bimbo is PLENTY fast enough to kill me and the missus on our bike.

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 08:25

Whoever published those figures either had intent to mislead or was simply too stupid to come up with a decent study covering the many variables. Whoever it was left out too much important data for the figures to have any real meaning.

Most of the Asians in NZ live in pocket communities within Auckland's urban limits. They only have to shuffle next door to say "wing wong waaaah" to their mates and eat sweet and sour cat while they do their paua poaching deals over a bottle of kawasaki and a deck of cards. They don't spend much time driving across or out of town to see people that live in the general community and they are big users of public transport anyway. It's the occasional times when they do get out of the urban limits in their cars (probably lost, because they couldn't read the road signs because they couldn't be bothered learning the language of the country they've infested) that the fun really begins.

I'm actually alarmed about the above data. Taking the other facts into account I'm surprised that the casualty / population ratio is so high for that group. They must be even more of a threat on our roads than I imagined.

Mmmm....the rate of accidents is lower than the % of pop they represent and the Kiwi's are opposite so no idea how you figure that one out.Sadly a typical NZ discriminating comment....

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 08:31

You are a model citizen, just buy into all the tripe the govt feed you.
Learn to think for yourself man.

First off, there is no comparison of average distance travelled.
NZ has the second highest MV ownership rate in the world and according to some reports about double the UK. If the distance travelled is along the lines of ownership you have your answer as to why the apparent disparity.

A substantial portion of the fleet is quite old and as such safety standards tend to be lower.

Speaking of safety standards. When the govt commissioned a report into why the big disparity such as pointed out in your post it was buried - as it didn't conform to the pre-determined outcomes of speed and bad driving.

In there it was noted that there was a distinct lack of safety requirements. For example, things like side intrusion beams, which were standard in many countries are not required (nor were they provided) in the same NZ models. I know some of that changed when the media got hold of parts of the report, however they are still not mandatory.
There was a lot of other stuff that was leaked also - little gems like it was calculated that if everyone drove with their seat 1" further back it would decrease the death and injury rate significantly. Some do have this option and could exercise it if they were aware of it.

The point being however, experts have looked into this and all we know about the study is that a) it was buried and b) it reported a lot of problems other than driver and speed.

I agree...I looked at the factors for accidents and did not see excessive speed in the highest group or for that matter anywhere..driver error.I mean the triple fatality crash this weekend involved stupid driving...some nerd thinks it made sense to overtake a line of traffic....apart from the obvious potential for one of the cars ahead wanting to overtake..the vision was an issue....yes speed was involved but not the cause of the accident.Traffic density...maybe over all NZ ie scattered but don't tell me that London is not heavy with traffic...ever been on the M25 in rush hour...

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 08:58

Traffic density...maybe over all NZ ie scattered but don't tell me that London is not heavy with traffic...ever been on the M25 in rush hour...

I didn't.
London alone has about 7.5 million people. Traffic density must surely far exceed anything we see here.

I spoke of vehicle ownership rates i.e. number of vehicles per 1,000 people.

But tell me please, what then was the purpose of your post, was there a point to be made? And what does it have to do with speed limits?

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 09:09

I didn't.
London alone has about 7.5 million people. Traffic density must surely far exceed anything we see here.

I spoke of vehicle ownership rates i.e. number of vehicles per 1,000 people.

But tell me please, what then was the purpose of your post, was there a point to be made? And what does it have to do with speed limits?

I assumed your point re ownership was linked to density...you still only have 3.2 million cars in NZ which is 10,000 hectares larger than UK so I think density, as in UK wins since surely the more traffic = the more accidents.Speed limits...my point was that despite have one of the lowest average speed limits NZ still has a death rate twice that of UK...not saying that speed is the main factor, however, velocity and decleration are linked.

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 10:03

I assumed your point re ownership was linked to density...you still only have 3.2 million cars in NZ which is 10,000 hectares larger than UK so I think density, as in UK wins since surely the more traffic = the more accidents.

I also would assume that is the most likely outcome of greater density. However your stats were comparing fatality rates, not accident rates. I don't accept that the a larger number of fender benders in gridlock traffic for example means more death.

Speed limits...my point was that despite have one of the lowest average speed limits NZ still has a death rate twice that of UK...not saying that speed is the main factor, however, velocity and decleration are linked.

NZ doesn't have a death rate of twice that of the UK, when adjusted for ownership - and possibly/probably distances travelled.

The point is, NO remotely reasonable comparrison AT ALL (i.e. NONE, not a one, nada, zip, nothing) can be drawn from the figures you present, between NZ and UK road safety. There is too much information missing.

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 10:24

NZ doesn't have a death rate of twice that of the UK, when adjusted for ownership - and possibly/probably distances travelled.

The point is, NO remotely reasonable comparrison AT ALL (i.e. NONE, not a one, nada, zip, nothing) can be drawn from the figures you present, between NZ and UK road safety. There is too much information missing.

Here it is from a NZ Herald ArticleLast year drivers identified as being Asian were involved in 8 per cent of injury traffic crashes where ethnicity was recorded, and 5 per cent of fatal crashes

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 10:46

Here it is from a NZ Herald ArticleLast year drivers identified as being Asian were involved in 8 per cent of injury traffic crashes where ethnicity was recorded, and 5 per cent of fatal crashes

Yet rental car companies in NZ came under fire for loading premiums for asian drivers - apparently their data showed a definite increased risk. Go figure.

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 11:06

Yet rental car companies in NZ came under fire for loading premiums for asian drivers - apparently their data showed a definite increased risk. Go figure.

Do you own a rental car business then?That may be for Tourist's or just the usual knee jerk reaction to an unsubstantiated claim...

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 11:25

Do you own a rental car business then?That may be for Tourist's or just the usual knee jerk reaction to an unsubstantiated claim...

Don't need to own a rental car business to read there Grahameeboy.
It was a simple presentation of the facts - unlike you, I inferred no conclusion or interpretation.

The very best business decisions of course are based on knee jerk reactions to unsubstantiated claims. These are after all the best way to make money and stay in business.

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 12:04

Don't need to own a rental car business to read there Grahameeboy.
It was a simple presentation of the facts - unlike you, I inferred no conclusion or interpretation.

The very best business decisions of course are based on knee jerk reactions to unsubstantiated claims. These are after all the best way to make money and stay in business.

Like the banks then..We will just have to beg to disagree on this one then.....I knew I would get in trubs for defending Asian drivers but hey ho

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 12:25

We will just have to beg to disagree on this one then.....I knew I would get in trubs for defending Asian drivers but hey ho

Ah - no.
At NO stage in this thread have I had any issue with your position on Asian drivers and I have no beef with their driving.

I do however have issue with the standard of "proof" provided.
What has been provided both as it relates to Asian and UK drivers has been nothing more than opinion - which of course you are only too entitled to - however it is opinion posed as fact.
It is this posing of opinion as fact to which I take exception.

Rayray401

18th May 2009, 12:42

blah, you get good Asian drivers and bad Asian drivers, same with white, Maori, Pacific Islander, American, European..just cos Asians show a higher stats in accidents...does that mean if im Asian im definitely a bad driver?..if you say yes. then fuck you..if you say no..then i think that would apply to all races..not just asians.

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 12:55

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 12:57

Ah - no.
At NO stage in this thread have I had any issue with your position on Asian drivers and I have no beef with their driving.

I do however have issue with the standard of "proof" provided.
What has been provided both as it relates to Asian and UK drivers has been nothing more than opinion - which of course you are only too entitled to - however it is opinion posed as fact.
It is this posing of opinion as fact to which I take exception.

I got that info from the Land Transport Site and NZ Herald....

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 13:11

I got that info from the Land Transport Site and NZ Herald....

I rest my case.

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 13:25

I rest my case.

I rest my head................

The Stranger

18th May 2009, 14:35

I rest my head................

Why? you clearly haven't been using it.

Kiwi34

18th May 2009, 15:11

How about the asian driver on TV 1 news last night?

Driving his nice silver BMW down a river in Canterbury:bleh:

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 15:18

why? You clearly haven't been using it.

'orrible little man.............

Maha

18th May 2009, 15:22

How about the asian driver on TV 1 news last night?

Driving his nice silver BMW down a river in Canterbury:bleh:

Wasn't that a stereotypical asian faux pas classic....and he asked that farmer dude if they could push it out?.....:eek: Fucken thing was full of water...:niceone:

Shadows

18th May 2009, 15:32

Mmmm....the rate of accidents is lower than the % of pop they represent and the Kiwi's are opposite so no idea how you figure that one out.Sadly a typical NZ discriminating comment....

I thought I explained how I figured it out quite clearly.

Obviously it went over your head, which surprises me considering its so far up in the clouds...

avgas

18th May 2009, 15:35

statisically speaking, 99% of all fatal car crashes involve death

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 15:38

Wasn't that a stereotypical asian faux pas classic....and he asked that farmer dude if they could push it out?.....:eek: Fucken thing was full of water...:niceone:

Nop......but this is

Grahameeboy

18th May 2009, 15:41

I thought I explained how I figured it out quite clearly.

Obviously it went over your head, which surprises me considering its so far up in the clouds...

Actually being in the clouds provides a heightened vision....

Maha

18th May 2009, 16:01

Nop......but this is

Face looks familiar...is that Mr R Sole??

EDIT: Just been informed the guy with the wet BMW is named....Wa Sing Ka

Elysium

19th May 2009, 05:12

Well while on the subject of asian driver bashing, anyone notice asian women seem to love 4WD and I mean the biggest ones they can find.
Sure women a very bad when it comes to 4WD trucks but I can't help laugh to myself when I see one of these 4WD trucks struglying to park in a supemarket car park and I see a tiny asian lady having a tough time trying to see if she is going to ram that car.

Dam I hate 4WDs

**end rant**

Kiwi Graham

19th May 2009, 06:14

Wasn't that a stereotypical asian faux pas classic....and he asked that farmer dude if they could push it out?.....:eek: Fucken thing was full of water...:niceone:

I just hope is insurance company saw it and refuse to pay out because of his negligence otherwise he'll be contributing to all our premiums going up!

Beemer

19th May 2009, 10:12

How about the asian driver on TV 1 news last night?

Driving his nice silver BMW down a river in Canterbury:bleh:

Yes, unfortunately he didn't do a lot for the reputation of his race's skill at driving being shown on national tv doing something so dumb! I loved the "you push my car" comment made to the other guy - and his "mate, you're dreaming!" Sounded just like that little kid in the Mitre 10 (I think) ad!

retro asian

19th May 2009, 23:56

anyone notice asian women seem to love 4WD and I mean the biggest ones they can find.

I thought that was the car of choice for Soccer MILF's...???

Kiwi34

20th May 2009, 17:10

An Asian driving a silver BMW..... into water :first:
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/flood-waters-damage-vital-sth-island-bridge-2743045/video

A Woman driving a silver BMW..... into water :second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83oylWBRGC8

BMW will have to put a warning notice on the sun-visor about where the car can and cannot go,
i.e. Road = good :yes: River = Bad :nono:

:bleh: