Waterview Motorway extension - why can't it be tolled?

[Mully]

Hi all,

I'm a bit curious; with all the talk of abandoning the full-tunnel option of the motorway extension being because there isn't enough money in the kitty, is there any reason why the tunnels can't be built and then tolled to pay for them??

There is an alternate "free" route they could use. And it seems it would solve a lot of the problems.

Is it simply a financing issue? (i.e. don't want to borrow in this climate?)

[Skyryder]

Hi all,

I'm a bit curious; with all the talk of abandoning the full-tunnel option of the motorway extension being because there isn't enough money in the kitty, is there any reason why the tunnels can't be built and then tolled to pay for them??

There is an alternate "free" route they could use. And it seems it would solve a lot of the problems.

Is it simply a financing issue? (i.e. don't want to borrow in this climate?)

Nope it's got nothing to do with finance. Fifty million for a cycle way??

They (Key and the Nts)just gota come up with something different from Labour.


Skyryder

[James Deuce]

Political point scoring prior to a by-election.

Ms Lee forced the incumbent Government's hand by declaring her support for an overland route in an off the cuff discussion. The Government moved rapidly so they had both time to spin the decision, and cost it out in a way that looked significantly cheaper than the tunnel option.

They're painting Labour's support for a tunnel as an emotive decision based on not wanting to force people to relocate, and poor financial sense.

There will be rather less than 365 homes affected, but who the hell wants to live next to a motorway? On the flip side, what a market to be a cash buyer in.

The Government will be hoping the issue will be forgotten by the time the by-election comes around and they have good reason to expect it to be so. There have only been 5 political events in NZ history that have held the entire NZ population's attention for any length of time:

1. The Boer War
2. WW1
3. WW2
4. The Vietnam War and it's aftermath.
5. The Springbok tour.

I was tempted to add the Homosexual Law Reform Bill, but the reality was only rednecks and Gay people gave a crap. No one else spent much time complaining.

[Mully]

Hmm, thanks for that. Seems to be to be piss-poor timing though - a month from a local election which, I presume, they want to win.

Maybe in two weeks they say "OK, we can do a tunnel, but it'll have to be tolled" (the directly affected wont care, as they wont have to use the toll-road) that way increasing the popularity of their candidate.



I was tempted to ass the Homosexual Law Reform Bill, but the reality was only rednecks and Gay people gave a crap. No one else spent much time complaining.

Freudian slip?? Gah, you fixed it.

[Maha]

What made me laugh about this whole oposition thing was what that dick labour MP said yesterday at the meeting...''if this were happening in Paratai Dr/Remuera we wouldn't be having this discussion''....cause not dick, it wouldn't bother the Mt Albert dwellers if were somewhere else.

[MisterD]

Nope it's got nothing to do with finance. Fifty million for a cycle way??

They (Key and the Nts)just gota come up with something different from Labour.


Like fuck. It's everything to do with the fact that National aren't prepared to spend another $1.5bn because they're not Helen Clark scared of losing some electorate votes.

My neighbours in Onehunga (who have been told that the m-way in our section can't be widened to the west and we have to lose a chunk of our park) are delighted that the whinging burghers of Mt Albert are no longer getting special treatment.

Now, I believe HC promised that the motorway would go overland "over her dead body" can someone please make this come true?

[Waxxa]

Perhaps 'we' should be asking the councils of past and present why they allowed residential to be built over a Paper Road in the first place. (Greed maybe).

Now this motorway decision is going to affect 'x' number of families in having to find another place to live.

but, the motorway linkup ( in my view) needs to go ahead. It should of been done 30 years ago and screw Tolls!

I've come back from Aussie where there are bloody Toll roads everywhere and they charge motorcycles and I can tell ya, what a hassle getting the money when you are on a motorcycle. 'You' hold up traffic at the booths....

[ManDownUnder]

Fifty million for a cycle way??

... but... they just paid for the cycleway.

$1.4billion saved... at 3% interest equals... $42 million a year so the cycleway's paid for in (hang on this is a tough one... ) ummm...1 year 2 months and 9 days. That's before looking at any economic benefits it brings post completion.

If they'd gone underground it'd be "woe is me - they're spending too much money". They're saving money so it "woe is me - think of the people".

Let's also not forget the geo reports confirming that right there is a PRICK of a place to tunnel because of the basalt layer that stops right where they needed to tunnel and the consequential instability of the ground.

Would you prefer they connect down Rosebank road and wipe out all the industry instead of the housing (sorry - tunnelling down that way's not an option y'see), or perhaps not complete the ring road and not reap the estimated $300 to $400 million per year in derived benefit?

Tough one really - but... tight economic times, an uncertain future ahead, we need the benefits of a completed ring road, we don't want to burden NZ with the debt financing...

Gee - I wonder what the prudent thing to do is?

[Colapop]

The Waterview extension is just anothe Transmission Gully. Why spend money on something when people will use the existing routes because they have no choice? The models for the Waterview extension (seen the 3D tunnel flythrough - very cool) have been around for a few years now (about 4 or 5) and the only people that are truly happy are the consultants coz they're getting paid to come up with "solutions." The more often a new gubbermint comes in the more "solutions" have to be mooted. And still nothing gets built - regardless of political affliction.

[Finn]

Nope it's got nothing to do with finance. Fifty million for a cycle way??

They (Key and the Nts)just gota come up with something different from Labour.


Skyryder

I feel really bad for all your pinko mates in Mt Albert. Those poor, poor people! I feel so bad that I've baked them a cake and I'm taking it to them tonight. See, I'm not such a bad person after all.

[ManDownUnder]

I feel really bad for all your pinko mates in Mt Albert. Those poor, poor people! I feel so bad that I've baked them a cake and I'm taking it to them tonight. See, I'm not such a bad person after all.

Shouldn't that have a house in front of it?

[Finn]

Shouldn't that have a house in front of it?

It was going to be a layered cake with the house underneath, but my oven isn't big enough.

[ManDownUnder]

It was going to be a layered cake with the house underneath, but my oven wasn't big enough.

Touching...

[FJRider]

Perhaps ... let Aucklanders have the final say. They will be the ones paying for it ... wont they ??? :innocent:

Or will they want the rest of the country to pay to fix their problems ... ??? :confused:

:dodge: :dodge: :dodge: :dodge:

[ManDownUnder]

Perhaps ... let Aucklanders have the final say. They will be the ones paying for it ... wont they ??? :innocent:

Or will they want the rest of the country to pay to fix their problems ... ??? :confused:

:dodge: :dodge: :dodge: :dodge:

LOL - lets carry that argument to it's logical conclusion... Let's see - Alexandra needs a new Sewerage plant costing $5 million... so that's $1,000 a head or you have shit running in the streets...

[FJRider]

We have a perfectly good sewerage system, proper planning in the past saw to that ...

[MisterD]

We have a perfectly good sewerage system, proper planning in the past saw to that ...

There's nowt wrong with Auckland's planning the motorway system was planned in the 60's...the execution on the other hand...

[FJRider]

So make it a toll road ... and let the users pay for it ....

[FROSTY]

Forgive my possible ignorance but hasn't this motorway been planned for 15-20 years??
Wasnt the plan to build tunnels just an attempt to shush up voters?

To me this smells like the people who bought a home next to a pub or western springs then complained about the noise from them .
The apsolute bullshit that guy was spouting on tv about ohh my poor baby--- the traffictraffic fumes and construction noise. Yet he bought cheap right alongside a clearly marked planned motorway --and how idiotic can a person be that sees the mangere motorway being extended and doesnt go--er hmm might be a bit of construction noise soon

[ManDownUnder]

To me this smells like the people who bought a home next to a pub or western springs then complained about the price.
The apsolute bullshit that guy was spouting on tv about ohh my poor baby and traffic fumes and construction noise. Yet he bought cheap right alongside a clearly marked planned motorway --and how idiotic can a person be that sees the mangere motorway being extended and doesnt go--er hmm might be a bit of construction noise soon

Oh shush - don't go bringing common sense into it. I suppose you're going bring up that I was told years ago, in detail by flyers, public meetings, community groups etc, and I somehow used that information in my personal best interests to sell my house there and avoid any personal or financial discomfort... back about... 6 years ago?

People need more notice than that my man. Oooo yes - we need time to find a scape goat, a protest committee, raise funds and find a scape goat (or did we do that already - it's ok - two's better than one).

After all - it's not my fault! I'm not responsible for my own wellbeing... that's the government's job right?

[Dave Lobster]

After all - it's not my fault! I'm not responsible for my own wellbeing... that's the government's job right?

No no - not now. Yee ha, the wicked witch is dead!!

edit.. well.. gone anyway.

[Skyryder]

... but... they just paid for the cycleway.

$1.4billion saved... at 3% interest equals... $42 million a year so the cycleway's paid for in (hang on this is a tough one... ) ummm...1 year 2 months and 9 days. That's before looking at any economic benefits it brings post completion.

If they'd gone underground it'd be "woe is me - they're spending too much money". They're saving money so it "woe is me - think of the people".

Let's also not forget the geo reports confirming that right there is a PRICK of a place to tunnel because of the basalt layer that stops right where they needed to tunnel and the consequential instability of the ground.

Would you prefer they connect down Rosebank road and wipe out all the industry instead of the housing (sorry - tunnelling down that way's not an option y'see), or perhaps not complete the ring road and not reap the estimated $300 to $400 million per year in derived benefit?

Tough one really - but... tight economic times, an uncertain future ahead, we need the benefits of a completed ring road, we don't want to burden NZ with the debt financing...

Gee - I wonder what the prudent thing to do is?


Just remember the Auckland Harbour Bridge They got the projections wrong on that. Labour were going to do it right six lanes underground. Yep it was going to cost but in my experiance the cheapest option today usually is the dearest option tomorrow.

Skyryder

[MisterD]

Just remember the Auckland Harbour Bridge They got the projections wrong on that. Labour were going to do it right six lanes underground. Yep it was going to cost but in my experiance the cheapest option today usually is the dearest option tomorrow.


So you think the best option for the future is twin two-lane tunnels, versus this plan which has enough built-in space to expand to three lanes each way?

[ManDownUnder]

So you think the best option for the future is twin two-lane tunnels, versus this plan which has enough built-in space to expand to three lanes each way?

Of course - the bridge never needed more than two lanes each wa...

[FROSTY]

Of course - the bridge never needed more than two lanes each wa...

Ohh and Robbie was WRONG to want a decent public transport system integrated into our roading system

[popelli]

To me this smells like the people who bought a home next to a pub or western springs then complained about the noise from them .


hijacking the thread

but having been through the mill about living next to a pub and having to put up with the noise there are two sides to every story

the local council tried this shit on us when we complained about noise ignorant twit that he was - when we bought the house 14 years earlier there was no pub next door - it was put in place by inept council planning decisions

rant and rave over

[FROSTY]

hijacking the thread

but having been through the mill about living next to a pub and having to put up with the noise there are two sides to every story

the local council tried this shit on us when we complained about noise ignorant twit that he was - when we bought the house 14 years earlier there was no pub next door - it was put in place by inept council planning decisions

rant and rave over
Thats the REVERSE of the idiots that moved into western springs or next to the Leapard tavern/kitty obriens in town and then complained about the noise.

[Skyryder]

Ohh and Robbie was WRONG to want a decent public transport system integrated into our roading system


Any idea who put the 'kybosh' on that??


Skyryder

[robboh]

Thats the REVERSE of the idiots that moved into western springs or next to the Leapard tavern/kitty obriens in town and then complained about the noise.

Not to mention the f**kwits living next to Manfield, which initially had NO houses around it!

Oh, lets go build next to a motor-racing circuit, and THEN start bitchin about the noise.

[McDuck]

I did like the chick on brakefast that said we would be better off using the money to build the auckland underground rail network...

[Winston001]

Hi all,

I'm a bit curious; with all the talk of abandoning the full-tunnel option of the motorway extension being because there isn't enough money in the kitty, is there any reason why the tunnels can't be built and then tolled to pay for them??


Oh mate, its obvious innit?! The South Auck crims won't pay a toll on their way to wreck mayhem in Mt Albert. :angry: It just ain't gonna happen. :shutup:

[Mully]

The South Auck crims won't pay a toll on their way to wreck mayhem in Mt Albert. :

Fuck, did I laugh at that....