Some more ideas on growing the Nationals

[AndrewStroud]

Hi Everyone, Since it's my first post on here I hope I can get away with writting a noval.

My thoughts re, not enough bikes on the grid and some ideas that could encourage more participation in Superbikes / 600's?

Exactly what to do could depend on whether we are looking to attract more riders from within NZ or looking to attract more riders from outside NZ?

1). - If just NZ, then my thoughts would be to make it easier, cheaper and provide some more incentive to compete. Provide rules that both riders and distributors are happy with. I.e. Allowing bikes that riders want to ride which can be tuned at a reasonable cost, and if the distributors input is responsible for half the bikes on the grid (as per Superbike class) then they need to see that the rules will allow their bikes to be competitive. But also rules that do not require people to spend a fortune just because others are. (Personally, I believe that the time has finally come where the performance of the top sports bikes produced by the main manufactures has come to a level that would still allow for close racing even if the bikes were in a near standard form.)
From a riders perspective, I don't mind if the bike has 200hp or 180hp, as long as I wasn't at any disadvantage to others. If it costs an extra $30,000 each, for everyone to have 200hp instead of 180, then I'd expect the majority would pick the 180hp option.

2) To make it more attractive for riders from overseas to compete.
- Aline rules with similar classes overseas and invite overseas riders. I.e. NZ Superbike rules could be alined with Aus Superbikes and if there is to be a second racing class within the Superbike class then why not aline rules with Australia 1000cc Superstock ( standard motor, but allows suspension and exhaust system). Then invite Australian riders and even help organise a container to bring their gear over and back. (who wants a sideline job??). It wouldn't hurt to also promote the NZ series abroad and invite riders from American.. UK...Japan...Europe.. Etc. Our series can be at the perfect time of year for Northern hemisphere 'Racers' to gain more experience, ride on new tracks and get extra development time on their bikes, ....plus get a Summer holiday.......( any extra container space may be sellable to trackday fans.) Air tickets to Aus have never been cheaper
Current NZ Superbike rules are very close to Aus Superbike's. The main difference being, we can machine pistons. Why not start off by changing that one rule to be in line with Australia. This would help reduce preparation time and costs for NZ riders while making it an option to race your bike in Aus and for Aussies to race their bikes here. For this season we could allow the older model bikes to run with their already machined pistons but the new bikes / distributor bikes must have standard pistons. I'd expect the new models to still have an advantage anyway and it may inspire more privateers to compete on their bikes that aren't a new model.
.
Having a 1000cc Superstock kind of class (open Production) would lift the grid numbers and provide a cheaper way to race a 1000. Open Production riders could prove themselves by mixing it with as many Superbikes as they could.
This could also be proposed for the 600 class. i.e. Within the current class a more 'Production' class could line up with the Aus 600 Superstock rules i.e. Basically a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.
Lap time wise, I'd estimate the Proddy bikes to be less than a second a lap slower, though if the Proddy riders are concerned about being lapped then we could go back to having three shorter races - say 10laps each(or 25km), one Sat arvo and two Sunday. Mark one set of tyres to be used for qualifying and race 1 then on Sunday mark another set of tyres to be used for race 2 and 3. .....??

The privateers cup idea seems ok though personally when I raced in the '06 Australian Superbike Championship I got points for the privateers cup, but really it didn't mean a lot to me. Riders seem to want to race for a National Championship title. If the Stock Production classes were given National Championship status then there would probably be more interest and more competitors enter.

Tyres;
I'd be just as happy using 2 sets of harder compound production tyres for a weekend as I would be using 4 or 5 sets of the softest compound slicks that we can get away with.
It would be great if a 'control tyre' could work here as it does in other championships ? If a NZ tyre distributor could sponsor the series and offer a deal to provide tyres to every rider for, say... $400 a set and then maybe offer a $200 buy back option then that would significantly reduce the cost of being competitive. ( Apparently the full retail for a rear Dunlop Slick can be near on $700!!! And if you want to be competitive you probably need to test 3 different compounds before qualifying even starts, just to see what compound is going to work best for the particular track and race distance!!!!) The treaded proddy tyres are so close to slicks now anyway but they are sellable to road guys when used. Gareth Jones used them as control tyres in the World Superstocks last year and said they worked really well.

In considering other ways to increase M/c racing profile and encourage more sponsor support could we re-look at joining one or two of the car meetings.
Sponsors could invite clients and put on hospitality in an action packed exciting atmosphere with lots of spectators.
V8 Nationals get good crowds and TV is already there. A1GP was open to including bikes in their Australian round so why not try for it here (if it's still happening). Timaru also worked well and Hampton Downs could be another good one to enquire about. Most car race spectators are pleasantly surprised and very impressed with the speed and dynamic racing that bikes can provide. Distributors also see their products displayed to another audience. Companies could be more likely to sponsor the race, (getting naming rights) which could go towards providing some reasonable prize money.
I know Motorsport NZ are pressed for time at there meetings so what about proposing Superbikes and 600's in the same race. (Gareth may be the only one with a problem trying to ride two bikes at once if they both carried national points.)
The lap times are close enough between 1000's and 600's and a grid of 35 bikes would be impressive.
Also, as there are already some motorcycle clubs discussing whether it is worth it for them to hold a National round then in ultilising a car meet this could provide an easier out for them.

Race Calendar;
In the past our last round has often been the only event to take place after the 1st round of the Australian Championship. That can put a spanner in the works for riders on both sides of the Tasman.
Can we communicate with Motorcycling Australia and coordinate it so our last round finished a couple of weeks before their first round starts.
Re meetings;
There seems to be good numbers turning up for winter series and club meetings, so there is the potential for many of these riders to contest the Nationals if it stacks up for them.
I understand that the 3 weeks away down the South Island can be too much $ and time away for some. We could look at making, say, Timaru a double header, where Wednesday or Thursday is official practice, Friday Qualifying, Saturday Rd? and Sunday the next round. Also this weekend could be the South Island round(s) that is Televised as the public have already seen lots of racing from Ruapuna but not from Levels. Teretonga is a great track and it would be a shame to leave it out though how many riders don't do the Nationals due to the expense, time off and distance to travel? Teretonga has the Burt Munroe Meeting for those who really need to race there.
Pukekohe could be left out as we heard that the Auckland Club is finding it hard to make it viable and besides that, really, it's too dangerous for a National round.
The series could finish Mid February with a Televised final round at Hampton Downs. A container could be at Hampton Downs ready to be loaded with bikes / gear to be delivered to Philip Island WSB for Round 1 of the Aussy Champs.

I hope you guys can help sort out any of the really practical ideas so we can put them forward asap.

Cheers,

Andrew

[Patch]

Good ideas mate - makes sense aligning with our Aussie brothers (no pun intended) hope it goes someway to sorting the problems out.


Welcome to the nut house :eek:

[Shaun P]

Thanks for that! There are some good ideas there, alot have been thrased around here already and are incorporated in the latest edition of the proposed rule changes as of 11 May 09 see here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=98942

Im not too sure on mixing up with car racing though, apparently it has been tried in Aus and when the bike race took place during and around the lunch break - the punters went to lunch! I guess they came to watch the drivers/cars they were familiar with. Could happen more so as a combined 1 off trophy race at something like the A1GP?

The last paragraph has some good merit, would like to see that happen.

[Peter Smith]

This could also be proposed for the 600 class. i.e. Within the current class a more 'Production' class could line up with the Aus 600 Superstock rules i.e. Basically a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.

It would be great if a 'control tyre' could work here as it does in other championships

There seems to be good numbers turning up for winter series and club meetings, so there is the potential for many of these riders to contest the Nationals if it stacks up for them.
Cheers,

Andrew

I believe they are looking at these types of changes.
I like the idea of a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.:niceone:
Someone could race a bike for a year then sell it as a stock bike without loosing a heap of money on cams, motor work, shocks, etc.
The winter series allows some stock bikes to get on to the track, but you wont see them at the nationals unless the rules are changed to make them competive.
I might even be tempted to give the 600 class ago.:niceone:

[Shaun P]

I believe they are looking at these types of changes.
I like the idea of a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.:niceone:
Someone could race a bike for a year then sell it as a stock bike without loosing a heap of money on cams, motor work, shocks, etc.
The winter series allows some stock bikes to get on to the track, but you wont see them at the nationals unless the rules are changed to make them competive.
I might even be tempted to give the 600 class ago.:niceone:

There already are proposed rule changes to basically that effect see http://www.mnz.co.nz/Proposed_Rule_Changes.aspx

and http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=98942

:rolleyes:

[Kiwi Graham]

Welcome Andrew to the madness that is KB, you will soon see the place is full of wise men and women :msn-wink:

Many of the suggestions you have made have been bounced around these hallowed halls before, I have raised the idea of joining forces with the V8 crowd in a similar fashion to Macau GP etc. The TV crowd are already there instantly improving coverage of our sport together with a whole load of petrol heads and yes bike racing is a spectacle to watch. The new Hampton Downs facility is going to provide an ideal venue for a launch of a 'new' series. Aligning ourselves with our Aussie neighbours is an obvious way to go and having someone such as youself promoting the idea can only be a good thing. Good on ya for speaking up for the improvement of our sport.

[CHOPPA]

Im going to race an OZ round of the superstock series. Its not that expensive, prob about the same as racing a round of our nats in the SI.

If there were several people that wanted to go over and take there bikes it would be even easier!

Jimmy Mair can organise all the shipping etc and its really cheap.

The oz superstock rules are great, i set a K7 gixer thou up to hopefully be very competitive in that class for 10k using s/h parts and a insurance write off.....

[speedracerjimmy]

how much to send your bike there

[CHOPPA]

how much to send your bike there

Export documentation 91.00
EDI entry 16.00
Delivery from here to CFS 70.20 (no reason why you cant deliver the crate direct to the CFS and avoid this cost)

Ocean freight 140.40
BAF 51.48

Total up to CFS Brisbane about NZD300.00 to 370 + JImmy Fee ;)

Then there would be a cost of the 'carnet' for the bike which is about $300 + refundable deposit. Bike will be there and clear to pick up in 10 days with Jimmy sorting it.

If you want to give R4 a crack in the Superstock 1000 class at eastern creek Jimmy your welcome to use my bike...

[Robert Taylor]

I believe they are looking at these types of changes.
I like the idea of a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.:niceone:
Someone could race a bike for a year then sell it as a stock bike without loosing a heap of money on cams, motor work, shocks, etc.
The winter series allows some stock bikes to get on to the track, but you wont see them at the nationals unless the rules are changed to make them competive.
I might even be tempted to give the 600 class ago.:niceone:

Allowing changing of fork oil only is about as nonsensical as allowing only a spring change in the rear, when in fact there is often more benefit to be had from revalving the shock than changing the spring! ( Eh Andy, as you well know! )Most of the acceleration squat issues with stock shocks are down to very weak shim stack opening pressure and overspringing to band aid this is not the right way about going about it, other problems are created such as poor bump absorption that contributes to over-stressing the tyres. And in the front end very often the bikes are undersprung, think of how disadvantaged riders such as Nick Cole would be if they had to run the stock front springs!
Everyday we get ordinary everyday road riders and trackday riders asking us for suspension solutions, the shortcomings they experience ( most notably as stated above ) are somewhat magnified in road racing.
But ho hum, said all this before and many people only believe what they want to believe.
But, Andrew has on balance come up with some very good suggestions, he is the countries ''heaviest hitter'' in road racing and has been around a long time. That he is a current rider at the sharp end ( in this century! ) gives him a LOT of credibility.

[Mark Pav]

I seem to remember him being pretty quick last century as well..........

[Maarty]

Hi Everyone, Since it's my first post on here I hope I can get away with writting a noval.

My thoughts re, not enough bikes on the grid and some ideas that could encourage more participation in Superbikes / 600's?

Exactly what to do could depend on whether we are looking to attract more riders from within NZ or looking to attract more riders from outside NZ?

1). - If just NZ, then my thoughts would be to make it easier, cheaper and provide some more incentive to compete. Provide rules that both riders and distributors are happy with. I.e. Allowing bikes that riders want to ride which can be tuned at a reasonable cost, and if the distributors input is responsible for half the bikes on the grid (as per Superbike class) then they need to see that the rules will allow their bikes to be competitive. But also rules that do not require people to spend a fortune just because others are. (Personally, I believe that the time has finally come where the performance of the top sports bikes produced by the main manufactures has come to a level that would still allow for close racing even if the bikes were in a near standard form.)
From a riders perspective, I don't mind if the bike has 200hp or 180hp, as long as I wasn't at any disadvantage to others. If it costs an extra $30,000 each, for everyone to have 200hp instead of 180, then I'd expect the majority would pick the 180hp option.

2) To make it more attractive for riders from overseas to compete.
- Aline rules with similar classes overseas and invite overseas riders. I.e. NZ Superbike rules could be alined with Aus Superbikes and if there is to be a second racing class within the Superbike class then why not aline rules with Australia 1000cc Superstock ( standard motor, but allows suspension and exhaust system). Then invite Australian riders and even help organise a container to bring their gear over and back. (who wants a sideline job??). It wouldn't hurt to also promote the NZ series abroad and invite riders from American.. UK...Japan...Europe.. Etc. Our series can be at the perfect time of year for Northern hemisphere 'Racers' to gain more experience, ride on new tracks and get extra development time on their bikes, ....plus get a Summer holiday.......( any extra container space may be sellable to trackday fans.) Air tickets to Aus have never been cheaper
Current NZ Superbike rules are very close to Aus Superbike's. The main difference being, we can machine pistons. Why not start off by changing that one rule to be in line with Australia. This would help reduce preparation time and costs for NZ riders while making it an option to race your bike in Aus and for Aussies to race their bikes here. For this season we could allow the older model bikes to run with their already machined pistons but the new bikes / distributor bikes must have standard pistons. I'd expect the new models to still have an advantage anyway and it may inspire more privateers to compete on their bikes that aren't a new model.
.
Having a 1000cc Superstock kind of class (open Production) would lift the grid numbers and provide a cheaper way to race a 1000. Open Production riders could prove themselves by mixing it with as many Superbikes as they could.
This could also be proposed for the 600 class. i.e. Within the current class a more 'Production' class could line up with the Aus 600 Superstock rules i.e. Basically a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.
Lap time wise, I'd estimate the Proddy bikes to be less than a second a lap slower, though if the Proddy riders are concerned about being lapped then we could go back to having three shorter races - say 10laps each(or 25km), one Sat arvo and two Sunday. Mark one set of tyres to be used for qualifying and race 1 then on Sunday mark another set of tyres to be used for race 2 and 3. .....??

The privateers cup idea seems ok though personally when I raced in the '06 Australian Superbike Championship I got points for the privateers cup, but really it didn't mean a lot to me. Riders seem to want to race for a National Championship title. If the Stock Production classes were given National Championship status then there would probably be more interest and more competitors enter.

Tyres;
I'd be just as happy using 2 sets of harder compound production tyres for a weekend as I would be using 4 or 5 sets of the softest compound slicks that we can get away with.
It would be great if a 'control tyre' could work here as it does in other championships ? If a NZ tyre distributor could sponsor the series and offer a deal to provide tyres to every rider for, say... $400 a set and then maybe offer a $200 buy back option then that would significantly reduce the cost of being competitive. ( Apparently the full retail for a rear Dunlop Slick can be near on $700!!! And if you want to be competitive you probably need to test 3 different compounds before qualifying even starts, just to see what compound is going to work best for the particular track and race distance!!!!) The treaded proddy tyres are so close to slicks now anyway but they are sellable to road guys when used. Gareth Jones used them as control tyres in the World Superstocks last year and said they worked really well.

In considering other ways to increase M/c racing profile and encourage more sponsor support could we re-look at joining one or two of the car meetings.
Sponsors could invite clients and put on hospitality in an action packed exciting atmosphere with lots of spectators.
V8 Nationals get good crowds and TV is already there. A1GP was open to including bikes in their Australian round so why not try for it here (if it's still happening). Timaru also worked well and Hampton Downs could be another good one to enquire about. Most car race spectators are pleasantly surprised and very impressed with the speed and dynamic racing that bikes can provide. Distributors also see their products displayed to another audience. Companies could be more likely to sponsor the race, (getting naming rights) which could go towards providing some reasonable prize money.
I know Motorsport NZ are pressed for time at there meetings so what about proposing Superbikes and 600's in the same race. (Gareth may be the only one with a problem trying to ride two bikes at once if they both carried national points.)
The lap times are close enough between 1000's and 600's and a grid of 35 bikes would be impressive.
Also, as there are already some motorcycle clubs discussing whether it is worth it for them to hold a National round then in ultilising a car meet this could provide an easier out for them.

Race Calendar;
In the past our last round has often been the only event to take place after the 1st round of the Australian Championship. That can put a spanner in the works for riders on both sides of the Tasman.
Can we communicate with Motorcycling Australia and coordinate it so our last round finished a couple of weeks before their first round starts.
Re meetings;
There seems to be good numbers turning up for winter series and club meetings, so there is the potential for many of these riders to contest the Nationals if it stacks up for them.
I understand that the 3 weeks away down the South Island can be too much $ and time away for some. We could look at making, say, Timaru a double header, where Wednesday or Thursday is official practice, Friday Qualifying, Saturday Rd? and Sunday the next round. Also this weekend could be the South Island round(s) that is Televised as the public have already seen lots of racing from Ruapuna but not from Levels. Teretonga is a great track and it would be a shame to leave it out though how many riders don't do the Nationals due to the expense, time off and distance to travel? Teretonga has the Burt Munroe Meeting for those who really need to race there.
Pukekohe could be left out as we heard that the Auckland Club is finding it hard to make it viable and besides that, really, it's too dangerous for a National round.
The series could finish Mid February with a Televised final round at Hampton Downs. A container could be at Hampton Downs ready to be loaded with bikes / gear to be delivered to Philip Island WSB for Round 1 of the Aussy Champs.

I hope you guys can help sort out any of the really practical ideas so we can put them forward asap.

Cheers,

Andrew

Are you planning on attending the MNZ road race workshop at the AGM Andrew?
Opinion of your calibre would be a great asset!

Regards

Marty

[Toot Toot]

And in the front end very often the bikes are undersprung, think of how disadvantaged riders such as Nick Cole would be if they had to run the stock front springs!


Well he should eat less pies then! Not going to form rules around one fat rider.

Welcome aboard Andrew, nice to have you here.

[cowpoos]

Well he should eat less pies then! Not going to form rules around one fat rider.

Welcome aboard Andrew, nice to have you here.

That would include riders like sloan frost,eddie aswell glenn...both of them in the 90kg + backet...and more aswell that I can't think of.

Good number of common sense ideas Andrew..I like the aligning classes with auz ideas and car race meets!!..I would hope you would be able to attend the agm. and put these ideas forward.

[Toot Toot]

That would include riders like sloan frost,eddie aswell glenn...both of them in the 90kg + backet...and more aswell that I can't think of.


Jeez, sounds like we need to start weight watchers classes before any new race classes.
You can start poo's, you might top the field for once.. bwa hah

[cowpoos]

Jeez, sounds like we need to start weight watchers classes before any new race classes.
You can start poo's, you might top the field for once.. bwa hah
Don't make me hold you down and tickle you till you cry!! Mr Smarty pants!

[FROSTY]

The idea that leaps outa the page at me is us building our bikes to exactly the ozzie specs.
Then timing our nats so they fit around the auzzie racing.
Some work and the right people how long before maybee a round of the auzzie series is held in Uuzud??

[enigma51]

The other very lacking thing in nz is coverage. We need to put more presure on the tele people to show the events live. Not 3 months later half hour shows but on the day live shows.

[Kickaha]

The other very lacking thing in nz is coverage. We need to put more presure on the tele people to show the events live. Not 3 months later half hour shows but on the day live shows.

The tele people will tell you to take a hike

Everyone pays for their coverage, front up with enough money and you can probably get it televised live but otherwise forget it

re Car the NZSRA did a truck meeting at Levels with serveral thousand spectator and it was very well recieived (in fact they invited us back)

MNZ did also try this several years ago with the 600/1000 classes doing extra meetings at Levels and Taupo but for one year only

[Shaun P]

Motards would be a good combination with truck racing, the trucks could go out and form the whoop section for them.. :no:

[Coyote]

Don't encourage me to race. That would not be a good idea.

[Robert Taylor]

I seem to remember him being pretty quick last century as well..........

Yes I understand your ''cheap shot'' and heres mine, he has moved with the times and understands the value of good suspension setup.

[codgyoleracer]

A good breakdown of facts and some practical no/low cost suggestions to bring new riders in (localy & from overseas) from Stroudy.
Another simple cost control suggestion is to not allow spare bikes & maybe allow only one engine per meeting. (The engine thing can be tricky to police though).
I like the idea of a Saturday race for the two premier classes - as the spectators find the whole qualifying thing pretty confusing & somewhat boring.
Glen Williams

[GIXser]

Hey Stroud, Eddy here.. some great ideas there. im all for better organised meetings with publicity.. i think ultimately Mnz should be responsible for the majority of it.. if they dont want to step up then we simply( and i have said this before get a commitee together) and set up another sanctioning body and organise our own events.

contrary to peoples belief its not overly hard to get TV coverage.. the simple reason why there has been absimal tv/media coverage thus far comes from the top...MNZ...There should be someone now working on putting next years season together/media/print/etc again.. not to hard in my books,, but it is a full time position for someone with some "know how" and contacts in the relevant sectors.

My next post will probably get me banned from any more racing ... will put up a link soon..

[SWERVE]

Judging by the SHITE that is normally on nz tv ............. the tv companies over here must be pretty desperate for some new material.:eek:
unless we can come up with a format that suits them:bleh:
#1 motorcycle racing soap opera........... stroudy,7 kids living in a state house::argue:
dr robert, mad professor type :devil2:etc etc:
#2 reality racing show ...........oh the list is endless here:first:
Sorry to deviate of the given topic a bit.......... but my point is the same.
ps. sorry andrew and robert no offence meant.:msn-wink:
Im sure lots of you could dream up some better concepts maybe on a seperate thread eh:niceone:

[Mark Pav]

Yes I understand your ''cheap shot'' and heres mine, he has moved with the times and understands the value of good suspension setup.

No cheaper than the cheap shot that inspired my reply.

[GSVR]

This could also be proposed for the 600 class. i.e. Within the current class a more 'Production' class could line up with the Aus 600 Superstock rules i.e. Basically a muffler, rear spring, fork oil and a fairing.
Lap time wise, I'd estimate the Proddy bikes to be less than a second a lap slower, though if the Proddy riders are concerned about being lapped then we could go back to having three shorter races - say 10laps each(or 25km), one Sat arvo and two Sunday. Mark one set of tyres to be used for qualifying and race 1 then on Sunday mark another set of tyres to be used for race 2 and 3. .....??
Cheers,

Andrew

Can't be done for many sound technical reasons not the less of which is one corner on one racetrack somewhere down south.

Besides theres Nick Cole to think about too bless his soul.

:jerry:

[brads]

Can't be done for many sound technical reasons not the less of which is one corner on one racetrack somewhere down south.



Whys that? 10 lap races will not be a problem

[KINGKONG]

Theres a tyre compound to suit every situation, it may not have the same grip so ride accordingly, if the rule is the same for everyone then its not a problem

[racer40]

some great ideas from Andy, as we do have to cut costs if we want more racing with us in the nationals,
Yes 2 weekends down south is enough, sidecars do it to get more to travel & im sure more N.I solos would go if it was over 2 weekends, what about a midweek 1 day meet between the 2 rounds ??
Standard classes run within the superbikes & 600s is a great way to encourage more entries but have to be standard ROB
What about getting rid of friday practise, less time of work, less track hire, less whare on gear & maybe the clubman type riders may turn up knowing they are not already a few seconds behind the friday testers.
Aussie dont do fridays anymore & moto GP are going that way next season.
Car meetings are hard to get involved in, but is great exposure for our sport,
thats my bit for now, Chris Lawrance

[CHOPPA]

some great ideas from Andy, as we do have to cut costs if we want more racing with us in the nationals,
Yes 2 weekends down south is enough, sidecars do it to get more to travel & im sure more N.I solos would go if it was over 2 weekends, what about a midweek 1 day meet between the 2 rounds ??
Standard classes run within the superbikes & 600s is a great way to encourage more entries but have to be standard ROB
What about getting rid of friday practise, less time of work, less track hire, less whare on gear & maybe the clubman type riders may turn up knowing they are not already a few seconds behind the friday testers.
Aussie dont do fridays anymore & moto GP are going that way next season.
Car meetings are hard to get involved in, but is great exposure for our sport,
thats my bit for now, Chris Lawrance

Great ideas!

[speedracerjimmy]

getting rid of friday testing would be a good idea.you would save a big chunk of cash by doing that.
I wouldnt want to see our nationals drop to 4 rounds tho i just think that is too short a championship.
besides if you dropped the fridays the saving would almost pay for the 5th round anyway!

[Robert Taylor]

getting rid of friday testing would be a good idea.you would save a big chunk of cash by doing that.
I wouldnt want to see our nationals drop to 4 rounds tho i just think that is too short a championship.
besides if you dropped the fridays the saving would almost pay for the 5th round anyway!

I totally disagree James. We dont actually do enough testing in this country and dropping Fridays makes an assumption that most racers are turning up with bikes well sorted for the individual circuit.

[cowpoos]

getting rid of friday testing would be a good idea.you would save a big chunk of cash by doing that.
I wouldnt want to see our nationals drop to 4 rounds tho i just think that is too short a championship.
besides if you dropped the fridays the saving would almost pay for the 5th round anyway!



well teretonga is a bloody long way to go!! we have the streets!!! you be at wanga's this year?

[Robert Taylor]

Can't be done for many sound technical reasons not the less of which is one corner on one racetrack somewhere down south.

Besides theres Nick Cole to think about too bless his soul.

:jerry:

And at the other end of the scale very light riders such as Sam Love.

[Robert Taylor]

Theres a tyre compound to suit every situation, it may not have the same grip so ride accordingly, if the rule is the same for everyone then its not a problem

Incorrect, if you had a very rigid and very hard compound tyre for Turn 1 at Teretonga it would have poor grip elsewhere to the point of being dangerous. You can get away with it with Dunlops quite often because of the firm carcass construction, but not so with Pirellis. And that frankly is a band aid solution, rather than a proper enginerring solution. In this case a more firmly calibrated valving stack allied with firmer springing, but not excessively firmer springing.
Unless I am mistaken road racing is also about engineering and to allow spring changes only ( when in many cases valving is a better solution ) is one step too far.

[JayRacer37]

getting rid of friday testing would be a good idea.you would save a big chunk of cash by doing that.
I wouldnt want to see our nationals drop to 4 rounds tho i just think that is too short a championship.
besides if you dropped the fridays the saving would almost pay for the 5th round anyway!

In the long run though you would end up spending much more money doing trips away to tracks so you could compensate for only 3 sessions before you raced at the track. It would be much more important to have a good base setup. Plus, if you don't want to do a Friday test you don't have to. They arn't part of the meeting even if they are run by the clubs.

[k14]

some great ideas from Andy, as we do have to cut costs if we want more racing with us in the nationals,
Yes 2 weekends down south is enough, sidecars do it to get more to travel & im sure more N.I solos would go if it was over 2 weekends, what about a midweek 1 day meet between the 2 rounds ??
Standard classes run within the superbikes & 600s is a great way to encourage more entries but have to be standard ROB
What about getting rid of friday practise, less time of work, less track hire, less whare on gear & maybe the clubman type riders may turn up knowing they are not already a few seconds behind the friday testers.
Aussie dont do fridays anymore & moto GP are going that way next season.
Car meetings are hard to get involved in, but is great exposure for our sport,
thats my bit for now, Chris Lawrance
I think the Friday idea is a good one. It is an added expense that is not absolutely necessary. As someone else said MotoGP is going away from that and so is the auzzie scene. Definately could be something that could be changed. Maybe have a friday for the first and third round of the season (or only at the NZTT and NZGP rounds). The saving in time off work would be the biggest advantage imo.

[Kickaha]

If you're going to cancel the Friday practice (which some people don't do anyway) then there needs to be a ban on all practice for the preceeding week or the teams with the money will just arrive even earlier and hire the track anyway

[Tony.OK]

So how does someone learn a track if they're doing the Nats for the 1st time if the Fri is banned?
Surely if they are only a test day then they're optional, I'm sure some that have plenty of track knowledge may be ok, but do you want someone out there for qualifying thats never seen the track before?
People travelling between islands are normally down there for the whole 3 weeks aren't they? 3 extra days on track wouldn't add too much to the overall cost in reality.

[Toot Toot]

.

contrary to peoples belief its not overly hard to get TV coverage.. .

Question for you Mr Eddy.
I see that TV3's sports news is "Brought to you by LG.. Life's Good". Why not, as part of the deal with LG/TV3 could they not request some coverage of results etc of each round of the bikes since they sponsor some of you. I am surprised I didnt see anything at all on TV3 of the LG Superbike Race at Taupo, won by an LG rider on the LG Sports news????????

[suzuki mama]

Hey Stroud, Eddy here.. some great ideas there. im all for better organised meetings with publicity.. i think ultimately Mnz should be responsible for the majority of it.. if they dont want to step up then we simply( and i have said this before get a commitee together) and set up another sanctioning body and organise our own events.

contrary to peoples belief its not overly hard to get TV coverage.. the simple reason why there has been absimal tv/media coverage thus far comes from the top...MNZ...There should be someone now working on putting next years season together/media/print/etc again.. not to hard in my books,, but it is a full time position for someone with some "know how" and contacts in the relevant sectors.

My next post will probably get me banned from any more racing ... will put up a link soon..

Having been in the land of Oz for a few days, have seen at first hand what some clubs do themselves to utilise any avenue of media and publicity available to them

I agree wholeheartedly that MNZ should be doing more ,but for Road Racing they would only pay for 2 press releases for each round of Nationals one post and one pre, shows how little value current office puts on link between media coverage and sponsers,

[CHOPPA]

Question for you Mr Eddy.
I see that TV3's sports news is "Brought to you by LG.. Life's Good". Why not, as part of the deal with LG/TV3 could they not request some coverage of results etc of each round of the bikes since they sponsor some of you. I am surprised I didnt see anything at all on TV3 of the LG Superbike Race at Taupo, won by an LG rider on the LG Sports news????????

Its coming :niceone:

[Mishy]

If you're going to cancel the Friday practice (which some people don't do anyway) then there needs to be a ban on all practice for the preceeding week or the teams with the money will just arrive even earlier and hire the track anyway


And there lies the problem, as far as I can see. Those who can afford to will find a way to test, and give themselves an advantage.
To me, banning Friday testing is simply a waste of time - it could well put the average "privateer" rider at an even bigger disadvantage, which would be exactly the opposite to whet any ban would be trying to achieve.
It costa a lot more to make a trip to Timaru from Auckland simply to test than it does to tag a Friday on at the beginning.

[AndrewStroud]

Re No Friday practice; A good point to consider though for riders who aim to make a future out of roadracing, getting lots of track time is a good place to start. I kind of agree with Jay, it is optional and if it wasn't available then we'd probably need to make a special trip some other time to get everything dialed in.
Speaking of practice. I'd be in favour of combining more classes together so everyone gets more time on the track. Especially as everyone doesn't turns up Friday I don't see a problem combining Superbikes with 600's, giving the option of being able to go out in 6 season's in the day rather than 3. It's common around the world to see 40 bikes on a track at the same time. It's not that scary - can even be fun if you ask me. -( not that the total combined 600's & S/B's even reach 40) If the FIM see it safe to run 600's & Superbikes together with full grids in the World Endurance races then, it should be ok for our practices.
Also if this could work for Saturday's practice then riders who miss Friday could still get a good amount of track time on Saturday. This would provide 4 practice seasons before qualifying. Qualifying could still be separate so you get some clear laps in.
( At Puke practice days we all go out together - a sesson for bikes and a sesson for cars!) If other classes did the same whenever practical, (e.g. F3 & 125's) then there could be enough track time on Saturday to not feel too disadvantaged by missing Friday.
If people want to save a nights accommodation and a day off work then not having a prize giving on Sunday night could often achieve that. It's a good social event but maybe sometimes it would be better to have it on the Saturday night of the following meeting when everyone is there anyway. Or else squeeze it in during the day like they do everywhere else in the world where I've raced. - You'd want a good one at the end of the season though aye.
Re number of Championship rounds, I still agree that at least 5 rounds is good though I wouldn't be surprised if more would compete if there were 3 rounds in the North Island and two in the South.

[James Deuce]

It's all good stuff, purely from a competitors point of view though.

The future of the sport rests entirely on people wanting to watch you guys race.

Yes you need competitors, and you need a constant stream of new blood, but I got into motorsport as a wee lad because my God Father worked for Firestone and took me to Puke to watch an F5000 race meeting in about 1975. I suck as a competitor, because I run out of money after crashing my way through a meeting. Drew's (the old Drew anyway) an angel compared to what I can do to a car or a bike.

The internecine warfare that's going on between the organising body and the people involved in competing in motorcycle racing is invisible to the rest of the country. Having spectators at the meetings, in hospitable conditions that encourage family outings (look at the street races guys - people make an event of it and the family participants who aren't fans can go and do other stuff if they get bored) will grow a following that will encourage sponsors and ratings controllers alike.

For the sport to have a future, more people need to actually know about it. I only know that there's been a race meeting when the lads start posting their race reports. I realise that the events are advertised, but it's always in targeted media to a limited audience.

[Rcktfsh]

Re No Friday practice; A good point to consider though for riders who aim to make a future out of roadracing, getting lots of track time is a good place to start. I kind of agree with Jay, it is optional and if it wasn't available then we'd probably need to make a special trip some other time to get everything dialed in.
Speaking of practice. I'd be in favour of combining more classes together so everyone gets more time on the track. Especially as everyone doesn't turns up Friday I don't see a problem combining Superbikes with 600's, giving the option of being able to go out in 6 season's in the day rather than 3. It's common around the world to see 40 bikes on a track at the same time. It's not that scary - can even be fun if you ask me. -( not that the total combined 600's & S/B's even reach 40) If the FIM see it safe to run 600's & Superbikes together with full grids in the World Endurance races then, it should be ok for our practices.
Also if this could work for Saturday's practice then riders who miss Friday could still get a good amount of track time on Saturday. This would provide 4 practice seasons before qualifying. Qualifying could still be separate so you get some clear laps in.
( At Puke practice days we all go out together - a sesson for bikes and a sesson for cars!) If other classes did the same whenever practical, (e.g. F3 & 125's) then there could be enough track time on Saturday to not feel too disadvantaged by missing Friday.
If people want to save a nights accommodation and a day off work then not having a prize giving on Sunday night could often achieve that. It's a good social event but maybe sometimes it would be better to have it on the Saturday night of the following meeting when everyone is there anyway. Or else squeeze it in during the day like they do everywhere else in the world where I've raced. - You'd want a good one at the end of the season though aye.
Re number of Championship rounds, I still agree that at least 5 rounds is good though I wouldn't be surprised if more would compete if there were 3 rounds in the North Island and two in the South.

Online at 7.28 on a monday morning?????? haven't you got kids to get off to school.

[Rcktfsh]

[QUOTE=cowpoos;1129216127]well teretonga is a bloody long way to go!! we have the streets!!! you be at wanga's this year?[/QUOT

Bringing street races into the nats would be a huge backward step as far as rider safety is concerned.

[scrivy]

Online at 7.28 on a monday morning?????? haven't you got kids to get off to school.

Mate, that's exactly what I was thinking!!!
Poor Karyn!!! Slaving away again...... :bleh::whistle:

[White trash]

[QUOTE=Rcktfsh;1129217106]well teretonga is a bloody long way to go!! we have the streets!!! you be at wanga's this year?[/QUOT

Bringing street races into the nats would be a huge backward step as far as rider safety is concerned.
I aggree completely. My favorite races are the street meetings but it should not be compulsory to race them for championship points.

It's for that very reason the IOM was excluded from GPs and rightly so.

[wharfy]

[QUOTE=cowpoos;1129216127]well teretonga is a bloody long way to go!! we have the streets!!! you be at wanga's this year?[/QUOT

Bringing street races into the nats would be a huge backward step as far as rider safety is concerned.

Do you have any statistics to back that up ?
It is not a rhetorical question I would really like to know.
I would like to see a comparison between bike races at Pukekohe and bike races at Whanganui - deaths/serious injury.

[White trash]

[QUOTE=Rcktfsh;1129217106]

Do you have any statistics to back that up ?
It is not a rhetorical question I would really like to know.
I would like to see a comparison between bike races at Pukekohe and bike races at Whanganui - deaths/serious injury.
Ask JAred Love, Pete McDonald, Lance Lowe how safe they think street racing is.

Answer. Not very.

[Shaun P]

It's all good stuff, purely from a competitors point of view though.

The future of the sport rests entirely on people wanting to watch you guys race.

Yes you need competitors, and you need a constant stream of new blood, but I got into motorsport as a wee lad because my God Father worked for Firestone and took me to Puke to watch an F5000 race meeting in about 1975. I suck as a competitor, because I run out of money after crashing my way through a meeting. Drew's (the old Drew anyway) an angel compared to what I can do to a car or a bike.

The internecine warfare that's going on between the organising body and the people involved in competing in motorcycle racing is invisible to the rest of the country. Having spectators at the meetings, in hospitable conditions that encourage family outings (look at the street races guys - people make an event of it and the family participants who aren't fans can go and do other stuff if they get bored) will grow a following that will encourage sponsors and ratings controllers alike.

For the sport to have a future, more people need to actually know about it. I only know that there's been a race meeting when the lads start posting their race reports. I realise that the events are advertised, but it's always in targeted media to a limited audience.

Like this in Aus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTJ4F-oymcY

[Shaun P]

Re No Friday practice; A good point to consider though for riders who aim to make a future out of roadracing, getting lots of track time is a good place to start. I kind of agree with Jay, it is optional and if it wasn't available then we'd probably need to make a special trip some other time to get everything dialed in.
Speaking of practice. I'd be in favour of combining more classes together so everyone gets more time on the track. Especially as everyone doesn't turns up Friday I don't see a problem combining Superbikes with 600's, giving the option of being able to go out in 6 season's in the day rather than 3. It's common around the world to see 40 bikes on a track at the same time. It's not that scary - can even be fun if you ask me. -( not that the total combined 600's & S/B's even reach 40) If the FIM see it safe to run 600's & Superbikes together with full grids in the World Endurance races then, it should be ok for our practices.
Also if this could work for Saturday's practice then riders who miss Friday could still get a good amount of track time on Saturday. This would provide 4 practice seasons before qualifying. Qualifying could still be separate so you get some clear laps in.
( At Puke practice days we all go out together - a sesson for bikes and a sesson for cars!) If other classes did the same whenever practical, (e.g. F3 & 125's) then there could be enough track time on Saturday to not feel too disadvantaged by missing Friday.
If people want to save a nights accommodation and a day off work then not having a prize giving on Sunday night could often achieve that. It's a good social event but maybe sometimes it would be better to have it on the Saturday night of the following meeting when everyone is there anyway. Or else squeeze it in during the day like they do everywhere else in the world where I've raced. - You'd want a good one at the end of the season though aye.
Re number of Championship rounds, I still agree that at least 5 rounds is good though I wouldn't be surprised if more would compete if there were 3 rounds in the North Island and two in the South.


Hampton downs double header?

[k14]

Re No Friday practice; A good point to consider though for riders who aim to make a future out of roadracing, getting lots of track time is a good place to start. I kind of agree with Jay, it is optional and if it wasn't available then we'd probably need to make a special trip some other time to get everything dialed in.
Speaking of practice. I'd be in favour of combining more classes together so everyone gets more time on the track. Especially as everyone doesn't turns up Friday I don't see a problem combining Superbikes with 600's, giving the option of being able to go out in 6 season's in the day rather than 3. It's common around the world to see 40 bikes on a track at the same time. It's not that scary - can even be fun if you ask me. -( not that the total combined 600's & S/B's even reach 40) If the FIM see it safe to run 600's & Superbikes together with full grids in the World Endurance races then, it should be ok for our practices.
Also if this could work for Saturday's practice then riders who miss Friday could still get a good amount of track time on Saturday. This would provide 4 practice seasons before qualifying. Qualifying could still be separate so you get some clear laps in.
( At Puke practice days we all go out together - a sesson for bikes and a sesson for cars!) If other classes did the same whenever practical, (e.g. F3 & 125's) then there could be enough track time on Saturday to not feel too disadvantaged by missing Friday.
If people want to save a nights accommodation and a day off work then not having a prize giving on Sunday night could often achieve that. It's a good social event but maybe sometimes it would be better to have it on the Saturday night of the following meeting when everyone is there anyway. Or else squeeze it in during the day like they do everywhere else in the world where I've raced. - You'd want a good one at the end of the season though aye.
Re number of Championship rounds, I still agree that at least 5 rounds is good though I wouldn't be surprised if more would compete if there were 3 rounds in the North Island and two in the South.
Yeah on reading the other arguments the running of friday is most likely necessary and could just prove more expensive if they are canned.

I like very much the idea of prize giving being right after the meeting (like they did at Manfeild this year). If you are planning on driving home (much like me having a 2-5 hour drive after most rounds) then it makes it a nightmare to try and stay behind for the prize giving. Yeah it needs to be something special but the extra 2-4 hours after a hard weekend racing is very difficult at the best of times.

[Rcktfsh]

[QUOTE=Rcktfsh;1129217106]

Do you have any statistics to back that up ?
It is not a rhetorical question I would really like to know.
I would like to see a comparison between bike races at Pukekohe and bike races at Whanganui - deaths/serious injury.

Lies, damned lies and statistics as somebody famous may or may not have said. Simple death/serious injury comparisions between wanganui/paeroa v pukee would look great for the streets circs but then you may want to look at number of competitors using pukee v once a year numbers at wanganui/paeroa. Personally i'd suggest their is a fairly relevant reason racetracks don't have safety features such as no run off, lamposts, pot hole covers and zebra crossings to name some of the features of street circuits built into their design.
ps. pukee has also long passed it's useby date as a national track hopefully to be replaced by hampton downs for 2010.

[Robert Taylor]

I totally disagree James. We dont actually do enough testing in this country and dropping Fridays makes an assumption that most racers are turning up with bikes well sorted for the individual circuit.

Let me expand on that a little further as too many assumptions have been made.

1) Quite contrary to pr hype and what some in high places have deluded themselves into thinking production bikes ( with emphasis on PRODUCTION bikes ) are not ready to race ''out of the crate''. Its about as big a lie as ''I knew nothing about the Watergate break in''

2) Every year theres at least one new model with a new rear link ratio, new swingarm, revised weight distribution,new issues. Then there are new tyre compounds etc. It requires testing time to get it right! When the K7 GSXR1000s were released we struggled for a few days until we got a direction.

3) A setting that works well on one track can be absolutely horrible on another.

4) Change brands of tyre and that changes required suspension settings.

5) Even the top distributor teams dont find the budget to test during the off season at such demographically dispositioned circuits as Teretonga. With circuits such as that one requiring a particular setup Friday testing ( and even Thursday ) is very valuable for everyone

6) Throw in the mix production cup bikes with ( god forbid ) suspension that is only allowed spring changes and the setup issues and tyre problems are going to magnify.

7) Heck there is one high profile team thats notorious for doing virtually no pre-season testing, and equally notorious for grizzling about struggling with setup.

8) Non distributor riders / privateers are not so disadvantaged as has been made out. For anyone that asks we will steer such riders in the right direction with the benefit of what we have learned with the distributor teams. This is trickle down that occurs reasonably quickly.

Its also important that final testing is done close to the events at the same ambient temperatures/ track conditions. A shift in temp of only a few degrees can impact not insignificantly on spring choice, damping settings and tyre choice. That is why winter setup is so different to Nationals setup.

ETC ETC.

If you remove the engineering element too much it takes away a not inconsiderable chunk of what the sport is about.

[racer40]

come on guys, i thought we are trying to get serious on cost reduction. I agree with kickaha, & we shouldnt be allowed on the track for the whole precceding week, &then its the same for everyone. It may be ok for all of us who race at national level now, but we are trying to attract more to the series.

[Two Smoker]

I dont believe that friday practice should be banned. They are great for set up. For instance, I need a friday practice on the SI track, because it is very rare for me to ride on them except for the nationals. Its a choice thing anyway. You dont HAVE to practice on the friday.

[Kickaha]

come on guys, i thought we are trying to get serious on cost reduction. I agree with kickaha, & we shouldnt be allowed on the track for the whole precceding week, &then its the same for everyone. It may be ok for all of us who race at national level now, but we are trying to attract more to the series.

I'm still not sure that would help though, it would just mean those that could afford it would go and do club rounds at different tracks during the year to do their testing and get setup info

[Two Smoker]

[QUOTE=wharfy;1129217369]
Ask JAred Love, Pete McDonald, Lance Lowe how safe they think street racing is.

Answer. Not very.

Add in Jason Hulme and Nick Cole to that list...

Also agree with Andrews post re combining the classes. The difference in times arent that huge between 600's and superbikes. 2-4 seconds a lap? Most of that made up on the straights?

I dont believe there really needs to be cost reduction. Racing in NZ is very cheap compared to other countries. The things that need to be increased is publicity. I remember racing at Wanganui in 2005 there was a HUGE crowd. Why? Because there was a Jimmy Barnes concert on after the racing.

I think there needs to be more than just racing to attract the crowds. For instance at the D1NZ, they get good crowds because they have other things going on other than just drifting. They have bikini competitions (im not saying we should do this for the Superbike Nationals), stunt riding, FMX etc...

Maybe another possible avenue?

[Tony.OK]

come on guys, i thought we are trying to get serious on cost reduction. I agree with kickaha, & we shouldnt be allowed on the track for the whole precceding week, &then its the same for everyone. It may be ok for all of us who race at national level now, but we are trying to attract more to the series.

Cost reduction yes............same for everyone no.

So I'm wanting to have a go this year, are you saying I have to turn up at a track I've never seen before and try and learn it then qualify in the same day?
That straight away puts a new comer at a serious disadvantage, to me it'd hardly be worth the bother if I know I'd have a shit show of competing with an experienced campaigner.
Wouldn't it be better to maybe have someone organise bulk discounts on ferry and accomodation or something similar, learning a track would be more important than saving a couple of hundred bucks in the grand scheme of things. It is the Nats for bike racing after all, it will cost $$ regardless.

[codgyoleracer]

And there lies the problem, as far as I can see.
To me, banning Friday testing is simply a waste of time - it could well put the average "privateer" rider at an even bigger disadvantage, which would be exactly the opposite to whet any ban would be trying to achieve.
It costa a lot more to make a trip to Timaru from Auckland simply to test than it does to tag a Friday on at the beginning.

Agree with that, overall Yes it would reduce cost , but it is likely to disadvantage those that need the track time the most......
The cost of being away for 3 weekends in a row is far more substantial than burning a bit of gas & wearing out some already worn tyres getting to learn (or re-learn) a track for a day (as many privateers that race use the test day for)
Taking away a test day from these guys also reduces track time further and may make entering national rounds even less appealing for the guys that are taking a " racing holiday" and expect lots of time on their bikes.

Running three rounds in the north & two in the south, & vice-vera the fowlling year adds some flavour for the " home track" specialists as well.
Glen

[cowpoos]

I dont believe that friday practice should be banned. They are great for set up. For instance, I need a friday practice on the SI track, because it is very rare for me to ride on them except for the nationals. Its a choice thing anyway. You dont HAVE to practice on the friday.
same goes for the south Island boys re the north...makes it fair doesn't it?

[Quasievil]

Havin a event every few weeks in the back block hick towns in NZ aint going to get what you want I say Do the whole nationals race event over one long bloody weekend in one spot ie Hampton Downs, why does it need to be a prolonged series anyway
One event over three days with support races, entertainment at night the whole show chuck in the NZ bike show get a camp ground going on as well chuck everything at it in one big bang.

I guarantee you absolutely the following

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

Complete satisfaction from all sectors (argue me wrong)

Fuck imagine it be bloody awesome !!!

Thats my answer for what its worth

[codgyoleracer]

Incorrect, if you had a very rigid and very hard compound tyre for Turn 1 at Teretonga it would have poor grip elsewhere to the point of being dangerous. You can get away with it with Dunlops quite often because of the firm carcass construction, but not so with Pirellis. And that frankly is a band aid solution, rather than a proper enginerring solution. In this case a more firmly calibrated valving stack allied with firmer springing, but not excessively firmer springing.
Unless I am mistaken road racing is also about engineering and to allow spring changes only ( when in many cases valving is a better solution ) is one step too far.


Did you say motorcycle racing is / could be dangerous Rob ?, god forbid i better give up now............
Personally - i like the superstock " class within class" idea. (for 600's) Results / points should count for both ss & s/stock classes as it gives the underdog on the stock bike incentive to beat some of the ss bikes. All good stuff and with different coloured number boards the public at the track (& on the telly) + the commentators would be quick to applaud and pick out the privateer battler.
The only problem i see with it is the policing of the rules for superstock spec machines.
Those that say its dangerous to race a stock bike with only spring changes & very restricted other mods for 10-15 laps on our short track courses or say that the speed differentials will be too great have other agendas in my opinion.
Glen Williams


P.S Before some bright spark points it out , YES protwin bikes could also take points in F3 IMO, (some of them are ridden a darn site better than some of our F3 machines & they deserve all the cudos they get for kicking an F3 spec bikes arse)

[Robert Taylor]

Did you say motorcycle racing is / could be dangerous Rob ?, god forbid i better give up now............
Personally - i like the superstock " class within class" idea. (for 600's) Results / points should count for both ss & s/stock classes as it gives the underdog on the stock bike incentive to beat some of the ss bikes. All good stuff and with different coloured number boards the public at the track (& on the telly) + the commentators would be quick to applaud and pick out the privateer battler.
The only problem i see with it is the policing of the rules for superstock spec machines.
Those that say its dangerous to race a stock bike with only spring changes & very restricted other mods for 10-15 laps on our short track courses or say that the speed differentials will be too great have other agendas in my opinion.
Glen

P.S Before some bright spark points it out , YES protwin bikes could also take points in F3 IMO, (some of them are ridden a darn site better than some of our F3 machines & they deserve all the cudos they get for kicking an F3 spec bikes arse)

Please then spell out those agendas. Im curious.

[CHOPPA]

Havin a event every few weeks in the back block hick towns in NZ aint going to get what you want I say Do the whole nationals race event over one long bloody weekend in one spot ie Hampton Downs, why does it need to be a prolonged series anyway
One event over three days with support races, entertainment at night the whole show chuck in the NZ bike show get a camp ground going on as well chuck everything at it in one big bang.

I guarantee you absolutely the following

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

Complete satisfaction from all sectors (argue me wrong)

Fuck imagine it be bloody awesome !!!

Thats my answer for what its worth

Even an event like that called the North Island Champs.

The Quasimoto Hampton Downs North Island Championship Of The World!

[Quasievil]

Even an event like that called the North Island Champs.

The Quasimoto Hampton Downs North Island Championship Of The World!

lol dunno about that bro, but I reckon I have the answer :msn-wink:

[Drew]

No cheaper than the cheap shot that inspired my reply.

You started it...No, YOU started it...Harden the fuck up.

[The Chow]

lol dunno about that bro, but I reckon I have the answer :msn-wink:

Absolutely agree , the biggest expense is the travelling ,fuel and tyres(all absolute costs) at least the bike still retains some value:niceone:. The idea of of one long three day meeting say for the champs is fantastic and has been discussed before. Something along the lines of the old Shell two wheeler run in early 1980's at Manfeild.

example: The NZ Kart Champs were run over one weekend recently and there was 9 championships awarded.

Great to see someone with real ideas.

[wharfy]

Ask JAred Love, Pete McDonald, Lance Lowe how safe they think street racing is.

Answer. Not very.

All would be valid opinions, but I would still like to know the ACTUAL statistics - I have even gone as far as having "quick" look on the web.

I picked Puke and Wanga's as they are both current and have been running for a long time.

I have personally seen two deaths at street races one racer at Porirua and one spectator (child) at Hamilton, as you can probably tell both were a longgggg time ago.

It is not the sort of statistic that event/track promoters make widely available (or MNZ either), but somebody must keep a record.

[Kickaha]

Absolutely agree , the biggest expense is the travelling ,fuel and tyres(all absolute costs) at least the bike still retains some value:niceone:. The idea of of one long three day meeting say for the champs is fantastic and has been discussed before. Something along the lines of the old Shell two wheeler run in early 1980's at Manfeild.

example: The NZ Kart Champs were run over one weekend recently and there was 9 championships awarded.



I raced Karts and always thought their idea of one meeting deciding the National Championship sucked, if Bikes went that way I doubt I would bother doing it

The main attraction for me doing the NZ champs is the variety of tracks we get to race on a one day meeting at one track to decide a NZ title just doesn't have the same appeal

If we had a one day meeting at say Hampton Downs it would still cost us down here just as much, we'd have to travel there at least a couple of times during the year to race at it to make sure weren't to disadvataged by the locals getting so much more track time, that's if they even ran our class at club days

[SWERVE]

I agree Wharfy the statistics may look ok on paper for the streets verses the track.............. however make those street meetings part of a national champs and the speed/commitment from riders would dramatically increase....so would accidents. Its a shame that street meetings cant be incorperated but as previously stated its the reasom the IOM was removed from F1 champs, although many top riders contracts stated that they were not allowed to race at the IOM for a few years leading up to its demise.

Good point Andrew why cant the prize-giving from previous round be at lunchtime at next round........ then at least all of the riders and whatever spectators are there get a chance to see it too. makes sense to me

[codgyoleracer]

Havin a event every few weeks in the back block hick towns in NZ aint going to get what you want I say Do the whole nationals race event over one long bloody weekend in one spot ie Hampton Downs, why does it need to be a prolonged series anyway
One event over three days with support races, entertainment at night the whole show chuck in the NZ bike show get a camp ground going on as well chuck everything at it in one big bang.

I guarantee you absolutely the following

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

Complete satisfaction from all sectors (argue me wrong)

Fuck imagine it be bloody awesome !!!

Thats my answer for what its worth


Even if this concept was " back to back" at the same venue over two weekends. Held one year up north - one year down south ?
If all held over one weekend - are we saying that the championship is decided over three races ?, - might be a bit tuff if you are unlucky enough to have a problem with your machine or be affected by severe weather etc.
With a double weekend - one of the races could be an mini-endurance ?, 1 hour race (with one compulsry fuel stop)
Glen

[codgyoleracer]

Please then spell out those agendas. Im curious.

In essence its the drive behind the use of the word "dangerous" within a sport that is inherently high risk - but however does have some aspects of it that could be called "dangerous" .

IMO the word "dangerous" might be used in our sport for instance when severe wet weather creates standing water (but not when it is simply normal rain & a wet track). It might also be used to describe certain circuits that have zero run-off & dead ends (but not when there might be limited run-off), It might be used in respect of a machine specification such as one having sharp objects protruding from it that could injure the rider or other riders in a fall (but it is not used when some attempt is made to soften the ends of handlebars, footpegs & levers). It might be used when a rider attempts to ride in the rain on slick tyres - (but is not used because one riders tyres are slightly more worn than anothers)

IMO - it is unlikley to be used in an instance when one riders shock absorber may be a different spec to anothers........or when their set-up might not be quite as good as anothers

This is getting off subject from this thread Mr Taylor !, P.S , when do the big piston fork systems arrive ?

Glen

[Quasievil]

tag saying quasi=blowarse ???? there is the trouble with Kiwibiker, put an idea and some gutless twat has a go at you, name yaself or come see me, im easy to find

[Shaun S]

tag saying quasi=blowarse ???? there is the trouble with Kiwibiker, put an idea and some gutless twat has a go at you, name yaself or come see me, im easy to findDon't bother yourself mate, just walk away.

You have contributed to this thread in a good way, dont lower yourself now.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Havin a event every few weeks in the back block hick towns in NZ aint going to get what you want I say Do the whole nationals race event over one long bloody weekend in one spot ie Hampton Downs, why does it need to be a prolonged series anyway
One event over three days with support races, entertainment at night the whole show chuck in the NZ bike show get a camp ground going on as well chuck everything at it in one big bang.

I guarantee you absolutely the following

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

Complete satisfaction from all sectors (argue me wrong)

Fuck imagine it be bloody awesome !!!

Thats my answer for what its worth

That is a VERY GOOD idea!
It would ease the financial burdon as you arent pooring massive money into diesel to get you all over the country for 5 rounds, food, accomodation etc. Lost earnings from time off work is reduced, time with family etc is increased. It also would ensure more advertising/promotion budget and ultimately more exposure and more excitement.

[Quasievil]

The way I see it as a sales marketing kinda guy its a simple process to make the NZ Nationals a bigger and a more successful event for all but you cannot have everything in my view.
If you are wanting big crowds and therefore big sponsorship dollars having a round in the middle of nowhere every few weeks is not going to attract the crowds and there it is not going to attract the sponsor dollar.
The Nationals are dragged out for far to long over the whole country making it a drip by drip event and a expensive event for those participating, and in fact a prohibitive event for many to enter, what was it 9 bikes last round and possibly a cancellation??
The way it is being done presently clearly doesnt work and will never work in my view, and despite some moron cockless twat tagging me as a blowarse I still say you need to have the entire event run over a long weekend at a location near a main population ie Hampton Downs.

Look at other motorsport events such as A1 GP, the Hamilton 400 very successful events, if any of them were run over 3-4 months the event wouldnt be covered as much on TV, the crowds would be smaller and sponsorship dollar would be smaller, and I guarantee you the number of entries would be smaller, I will also go so far as to say bikes are far more exciting!!

I also believe that doing it this way would encourage greater rider numbers at club level events due to the need for more track time as opposed to riders solely aiming for the Nationals rounds and picking of a few club rounds for setup and practice purposes.

The disadvantage (if it is even one) is you wont be racing on every track in the country in the nationals series, but does that matter ?? at club level you will still be doing those tracks if you like.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I guarantee that the event if held in the way I advocate will without any doubt solve every problem currently noted by you and I say again

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

AND I BET WITH THAT PRIZEMONEY FOR THE RIDERS !!

Oh my other idea was also out the back run a NZ Motard championship at the same time.

[Robert Taylor]

In essence its the drive behind the use of the word "dangerous" within a sport that is inherently high risk - but however does have some aspects of it that could be called "dangerous" .

IMO the word "dangerous" might be used in our sport for instance when severe wet weather creates standing water (but not when it is simply normal rain & a wet track). It might also be used to describe certain circuits that have zero run-off & dead ends (but not when there might be limited run-off), It might be used in respect of a machine specification such as one having sharp objects protruding from it that could injure the rider or other riders in a fall (but it is not used when some attempt is made to soften the ends of handlebars, footpegs & levers). It might be used when a rider attempts to ride in the rain on slick tyres - (but is not used because one riders tyres are slightly more worn than anothers)

IMO - it is unlikley to be used in an instance when one riders shock absorber may be a different spec to anothers........or when their set-up might not be quite as good as anothers

This is getting off subject from this thread Mr Taylor !, P.S , when do the big piston fork systems arrive ?

Glen

Glen, you have blown my use of the word ''dangerous'' out of all proportion, my intent was that you minimise the risks and therefore dont have a rules culture that invites needless further risks. That is also the intent of having ''sound'' suspension and reasonably sticky tyres. Facts you are abundantly aware of.

Big piston forks, hmmmmm. The jurys out on that one. Hardly a resounding success in racing circles thus far and there are a few issues that are created such as a very narrow adjustment range. I think many are victims of media hype on this one.
Still awaiting further elaboration about your statement re ''agendas''. Pray tell!

[Robert Taylor]

That is a VERY GOOD idea!
It would ease the financial burdon as you arent pooring massive money into diesel to get you all over the country for 5 rounds, food, accomodation etc. Lost earnings from time off work is reduced, time with family etc is increased. It also would ensure more advertising/promotion budget and ultimately more exposure and more excitement.

While I am in two minds about a championship being confined within a weekend or two you have firmly hit the nail on the head with where the major cost are.

[Robert Taylor]

tag saying quasi=blowarse ???? there is the trouble with Kiwibiker, put an idea and some gutless twat has a go at you, name yaself or come see me, im easy to find

Even if I didnt agree with what you say Quasi ( you actually have made many good points ) I fully agree with your view on taglines, IT IS GUTLESS.

[Grey Beard]

Havin a event every few weeks in the back block hick towns in NZ aint going to get what you want I say Do the whole nationals race event over one long bloody weekend in one spot ie Hampton Downs, why does it need to be a prolonged series anyway
One event over three days with support races, entertainment at night the whole show chuck in the NZ bike show get a camp ground going on as well chuck everything at it in one big bang.

I guarantee you absolutely the following

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

Complete satisfaction from all sectors (argue me wrong)

Fuck imagine it be bloody awesome !!!

Thats my answer for what its worth



Interesting thought Quasievil.

Let's look at some events within Motorcycling:

Junior Motocross Champs

Classic Festival

Burt Munro

Just to mention a few. All run over one weekend and are all very successful

Kartsport New Zealand has run their Nationals, this way for years.

With the down turn in the economy etc etc Why not try IT

I am sure that the "Good Old Boys" who have guarded their rights to run the likes of the Grand Prixs and the TTs for years, will still run those events so what exactly will be lost.

[Shaun]

No cheaper than the cheap shot that inspired my reply.


Is it possible to act like CHILDREN at home please, and not interfare in a fantastic healthy thread

[BJT666]

Great Idea Quasievil and Grey Beard.

Only downside is Hampton Downs.

I drove pass yesterday, can't see it being ready for events in JUNE.

Shit loads of machinery sitting around, they appear to be putting in front straight Armco or at least some sort of barrier and they were working on the driveway behind the apartments. But not much else?????

But the Nationals are not till January, here's hoping.

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=cowpoos;1129216127]well teretonga is a bloody long way to go!! we have the streets!!! you be at wanga's this year?[/QUOT

Bringing street races into the nats would be a huge backward step as far as rider safety is concerned.




I as a true ROAD racing freak, fully agree with you mate!

[Shaun]

Great Idea Quasievil and Grey Beard.

Only downside is Hampton Downs.

I drove pass yesterday, can't see it being ready for events in JUNE.

Shit loads of machinery sitting around, they appear to be putting in front straight Armco or at least some sort of barrier and they were working on the driveway behind the apartments. But not much else?????

But the Nationals are not till January, here's hoping.



I stopped there on Saturday night and walked around it all! I cannot see it being ready untill at least 2010 some time, MAYBE june ish

[wharfy]

I agree Wharfy the statistics may look ok on paper for the streets verses the track.............. however make those street meetings part of a national champs and the speed/commitment from riders would dramatically increase....so would accidents. Its a shame that street meetings cant be incorperated but as previously stated its the reasom the IOM was removed from F1 champs, although many top riders contracts stated that they were not allowed to race at the IOM for a few years leading up to its demise.


Much as I'd like to, I don't think we can compare Wanganui with the IOM.
I have raced Wanganui admittedly my speed was a long way below the superbike leaders but the speeds are not nearly as high as a track ( I only used 2nd gear on the Hornet and I have heard other faster riders say the same ).
I don't think Stroudy, Jones or Shirriffs were holding back.
As I say I have not seen any statistics so I have no idea whether Wanganui is more or less dangerous on paper (or hospital beds) than Pukekohe (which I haven't raced at yet) and with the greatest respect to our top riders, they aren't on million dollar contracts.
Check out the link below not many of the National superbike riders were absent from Wanganui last year as far as I can tell only Budgen.
I can feel a poll coming on :)


http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1027768

[Maido]

There are some great ideas being banded about here, again.
I agree with the point that street racing shouldn't be part of the nationals. I myself do not street race, I love the spectical but don't like the increased risk factor. Maybe I am a wuss and should harden up perhaps lol!


This is my stance:
I come from Invercargill (baaa! cold weather, rain, 6 fingers etc, yes I hear it all the time), to be fair it is a long way from Auckland and other centers so travel is an issue, but transversely it is an issue for us southerners to go the other way, i beleive there should be a little give and take here. There is nothing stopping groups of people organising containers to cater for numerous bikes (I know Anthony McCarthy had a container sent here one year to save costs, this meant he also had a pit shed for the weekend.

The main reason for me doing the nationals is to improve my riding ability and then pass that knowledge back into the Southland. Be it through training other riders or just racing hard and having people better them selves by trying to catch me. It is very hard to improve if you only have one national weekend to try. I do agree that a single round would draw more spectators, and having a single event allows distrubutors to put all their eggs in one basket, but this is the New Zealand road race national SERIES. A champion shouldn't be crowned cos he was able to spend more time at a track and dial his/her bike in bettter than the other guys. A series grows consistancy and race craft. We already have single races that come with titles within the series (TT and NZGP).

I think a series is paramount if we want to push forward. I strongly believe that although the faster riders will always be fast, the gap back to the not quite riders (such as myself) will continue to grow, this will have a negative effect. I was able to improve over ethe course fo the series this year to the final race where I was within 1 second of the leading riders. If i had one race every year to try this then I would probably crash more often than not.

my 2c!
Jeremy

[Danger Dave]

The way I see it as a sales marketing kinda guy its a simple process to make the NZ Nationals a bigger and a more successful event for all but you cannot have everything in my view.
If you are wanting big crowds and therefore big sponsorship dollars having a round in the middle of nowhere every few weeks is not going to attract the crowds and there it is not going to attract the sponsor dollar.
The Nationals are dragged out for far to long over the whole country making it a drip by drip event and a expensive event for those participating, and in fact a prohibitive event for many to enter, what was it 9 bikes last round and possibly a cancellation??
The way it is being done presently clearly doesnt work and will never work in my view, and despite some moron cockless twat tagging me as a blowarse I still say you need to have the entire event run over a long weekend at a location near a main population ie Hampton Downs.

Look at other motorsport events such as A1 GP, the Hamilton 400 very successful events, if any of them were run over 3-4 months the event wouldnt be covered as much on TV, the crowds would be smaller and sponsorship dollar would be smaller, and I guarantee you the number of entries would be smaller, I will also go so far as to say bikes are far more exciting!!

I also believe that doing it this way would encourage greater rider numbers at club level events due to the need for more track time as opposed to riders solely aiming for the Nationals rounds and picking of a few club rounds for setup and practice purposes.

The disadvantage (if it is even one) is you wont be racing on every track in the country in the nationals series, but does that matter ?? at club level you will still be doing those tracks if you like.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I guarantee that the event if held in the way I advocate will without any doubt solve every problem currently noted by you and I say again

1/ bigger crowds (fucking massive)
2/bigger and better sponsorship (they will all want to be involved)
3/ Better TV Coverage
4/ Lower costs for all competitors (bigger and full fields)
5/ More international riders

AND I BET WITH THAT PRIZEMONEY FOR THE RIDERS !!

Oh my other idea was also out the back run a NZ Motard championship at the same time.


how about if there were two events, 1 in the north island and 1 in the south (say ruapuna) that way it can be decided over two different meetings on two different tracks and no one will disadvantaged.

[Shaun S]

Although I appreciate where everyone is coming from, I feel that only one event would not work. Maybe 2 events one North and one South Island? However the beauty of the NZ nationals is that the racers get to race on several tracks. This sometimes gives some home track advantage, while others have to show how fast they adapt, and this is part of the game.

I would say keep it as it is, but have one huge event at the end, like a grand finale, this can count for a third of the points on its own, and have massive publicity etc.

This GP here and then TT there does not make sense. We should race the season and then finish off with a big one as celebration and acknowledgement of what we have done the year.

[Shaun]

Although I appreciate where everyone is coming from, I feel that only one event would not work. Maybe 2 events one North and one South Island? However the beauty of the NZ nationals is that the racers get to race on several tracks. This sometimes gives some home track advantage, while others have to show how fast they adapt, and this is part of the game.

I would say keep it as it is, but have one huge event at the end, like a grand finale, this can count for a third of the points on its own, and have massive publicity etc.

This GP here and then TT there does not make sense. We should race the season and then finish off with a big one as celebration and acknowledgement of what we have done the year.



100% Agree

ANDREW STROUD- Speak up please mate ha ha, Andrew said some thing very very similar to me on Saturday at Taupo:niceone:

[racer40]

one problem with a big event at seasons end ( after 5 rounds ) is that it could be a problem to get the big feilds you talk about, due to injuries, breakdowns, finances, & not being bothered because you are not in the points hunt.
Hey Quasi, i understand there are plans for a supermoto championship this summer
some good ideas coming through on this thread guys.

[Shaun S]

one problem with a big event at seasons end ( after 5 rounds ) is that it could be a problem to get the big feilds you talk about, due to injuries, breakdowns, finances, & not being bothered because you are not in the points hunt.It should be a big enough event that even if you are not in the hunt, you HAVE to be there, because it is the crux of the season. For the same reason people will budget for it as they do for the current season.

Injuries? Fair enough, but that could happen at round one or not at all - its part of the game.

[Quasievil]

Although I appreciate where everyone is coming from, I feel that only one event would not work. Maybe 2 events one North and one South Island? However the beauty of the NZ nationals is that the racers get to race on several tracks. This sometimes gives some home track advantage, while others have to show how fast they adapt, and this is part of the game.

I would say keep it as it is, but have one huge event at the end, like a grand finale, this can count for a third of the points on its own, and have massive publicity etc.

This GP here and then TT there does not make sense. We should race the season and then finish off with a big one as celebration and acknowledgement of what we have done the year.

Yes maybe two events one NI one SI to avoid home track advantage.

yes it is nice to have a race on all the tracks but it clearly doesnt work for sponsorship and crowd revenue, Im afraid to say this is NZ and not a moto GP racing season, this is a small country with a small number of riders. The nationals event is clearly failing and needs to make serious progress for the benefit of the sport. Currently its about as attractive event as curling for the masses.

One event is all that is needed held over a long weekend coupled with a massive effort in the media, on site entertainment, Camp ground, product stalls, bike shows, girlies, the lot piled into one big event

From that I guarantee the exposure of the sport will increase ten fold along with the sponsorship interest, and as for the racers they will prosper increased sponsorship opportunities due to more coverage as well as bigger crowds bigger money = prize money.

The current mould needs to be smashed and a new way of thinking has to be embraced.

People want a show, give them one.

[Sonykid]

Quazi,

I am only new to racing but old to Sales and Marketing and think your ideas are spot on. I went down to Sound of Thunder earlier this year and what a fantastic race meeting/ event. Maybe we could throw in a Bears element to the big carnival atmosphere, it would certainly quarantee entries. Keep up the good work.

[koba]

Reading though this thread I am seeing some really good discussion.

I initially thought Quasis idea was perfect but after more peoples input and a bit more thought I also see the major downsides.
However it really

I'm kind of thinking the way to look at going at the moment is to keep it the same but push most of the promotion into one round like Shaun S says, make it one of the title rounds (GP or TT) and move it around each year so all the host clubs get a decent crack at it.

A BEARS support class, perhaps with something to race for would also be mint, Ive been told by a few people that there are alot of bears bikes parked up in the north island due to lack of viable events.

[racer40]

Im sorry Shaun S but people do run out of money at seasons end, as what happened with puke this year with the round only just going ahead because of lack of entries.
I reckon 1 round in each island sounds good, & each island do the things that Quasi is saying to make them a bigger event.

[Drew]

I as a true ROAD racing freak, fully agree with you mate!
A few people seem to agree, but I cant find anyone backing this statement up with reason.

A quick look (read that a very brief look) on mylaps suggests, that most that do the nationals, compete at the streets. And the entrants that do not, seem to do so because they live in the wrong island.

Were the streets to be incorperated into the nats, then there is a huge spectator base to draw from, to get bums in seats at the circuit events. Increasing reveniew immediately.

[codgyoleracer]

Please then spell out those agendas. Im curious.

Your curious , I'me pretty, Lifes a beach :-)

[scrivy]

People want a show, give them one.

Hee hee...... A freak show..... I like the way you think my man!!!

A freakshow they will get...........:niceone::devil2:

[scrivy]

ANDREW STROUD- Speak up please mate ha ha, Andrew said some thing very very similar to me on Saturday at Taupo:niceone:

What? "Speak up please mate"??????? :shifty::whistle:

[svr]

A `two-round national series' has obvious appeal for financial and other commitment-related reasons. It is an exciting concept and would undoubtedly make running the championship achievable for a large number of riders (possibly requiring 3 day meetings with split qualifying sessions?)
The only obvious downsides I can think of are:
1. As Maido has pointed out, the great appeal of a lengthy national series is the rider development process i.e. it makes better riders
2. It would also possibly devalue the title of national champion. The series winner in the past has required consistency over a great variety of racetracks and the championship was earnt over a period of time with associated ups and downs.
How do past champions feel about this?

[Quasievil]

2. It would also possibly devalue the title of national champion. The series winner in the past has required consistency over a great variety of racetracks and the championship was earnt over a period of time with associated ups and downs.
How do past champions feel about this?

Do you think it would devalue the title of champion if more people new about it and watched it etc? if this event (meaning the single event I advocate) had a significantly larger exposure level via media and a bigger crowd following I think that the title of NZ Champion would be a bigger thing, question who outside motorcycling knows who Robbie Bugden is or Glen Williams?

Increased Media makes bigger stars for all sports people.

Yes I agree a racing on a larger number of tracks over a longer period shows a
range of skills and endurance consistency deserving of a national champion, you are right mate but unfortunately this age old national event process simply doesnt work, that much is clear therefore a new approach does need to be embraced, would I be accurate in saying the rider, the teams, the bikes would have to be absolutely perfect to take a title over a weekend event? that would also be deserving of a National Champion also.

To throw a spanner in the works (as I do) we have some excellent road racing events run at club level in NZ, both in the NI and the SI (im unsure of the SI) could it be a reasonable suggestion to allow some points from the riders own local racing scene to be attributed to a National event?
For Example Joe Bloggs races his GSXR1000 at the VMCC winter series and gains X Points for his efforts he can then carry those same points into the National weekend round.
The benefit here is
1/the club level scene will get a higher profile rider racing (regularly)
2/ Points can be gained from the riders home track and own club
3/ it could in part be utilized as a qualifying tool, ie rider must get so many points to gain entry into the Nationals so the (I predict) larger fields for the Nationals weekend can see some level of qualification as opposed to anyone with a bike entering to show off to his girlfreind etc.

Points to consider here would also be how to allow a international rider to suitably qualify to enter our nationals weekend, perhaps points from their own Country could be used, I dont know.

Food for thought

In sayting all that Im stuck on the long weekend event and I cannot think of any other way to enable success on every level needing attention.

[Maido]

Do you currently race in the NZ national road race series Quasi, as in the whole series?
This isn't an ignorant question and not at all a personal attack, I am just interested to know. I think you have very valid points.

[Robert Taylor]

Your curious , I'me pretty, Lifes a beach :-)

A disappointing response Glen after your unsubstantiated statement about agendas, not up to your usual standard of excellent well thought out posts.
Suffice to say my primary motives ( agendas!!) are totally from a technical perspective, anyone that knows me well enough will 100% agree. Technical issues are interesting and I cite the SV650 air intake debacle where many people ( including myself ) went into bat for you and Terry.
If I make a little money from my line of business its fine, I believe making fair and reasonable money is okay and is certainly not a crime in the eyes of most people. Im certainly not driving an Aussie V8 nor have a lavish lifestyle from the proceeds!
There are some great ideas on this thread and it really highlights where a major portion of the costs come from, travel, fuel, accomodation, meals, etc. That impacts on all sports and some of the ideas have real merit

[Robert Taylor]

A `two-round national series' has obvious appeal for financial and other commitment-related reasons. It is an exciting concept and would undoubtedly make running the championship achievable for a large number of riders (possibly requiring 3 day meetings with split qualifying sessions?)
The only obvious downsides I can think of are:
1. As Maido has pointed out, the great appeal of a lengthy national series is the rider development process i.e. it makes better riders
2. It would also possibly devalue the title of national champion. The series winner in the past has required consistency over a great variety of racetracks and the championship was earnt over a period of time with associated ups and downs.
How do past champions feel about this?

Although it would not be a perfect solution I believe it would have the ability to attract a lot more riders who otherwise only do club and winter rounds.

[k14]

For Example Joe Bloggs races his GSXR1000 at the VMCC winter series and gains X Points for his efforts he can then carry those same points into the National weekend round.
The benefit here is
1/the club level scene will get a higher profile rider racing (regularly)
2/ Points can be gained from the riders home track and own club
3/ it could in part be utilized as a qualifying tool, ie rider must get so many points to gain entry into the Nationals so the (I predict) larger fields for the Nationals weekend can see some level of qualification as opposed to anyone with a bike entering to show off to his girlfreind etc.
Yes you bring up some great ideas. How about running a 4 round championship and each rider can drop 1 round. Two meetings in each island (Ruapuna, Level/Teretonga, Manfeild and Hampton). So a SI rider would ride the two events down here and Hampton. A NI rider would do the two events up there and Ruapuna. If someone wanted to they could do all 4 and drop their worst. No reason why someone who was fast enough couldn't take the championship out from 3 rounds. Could also have double points or more races at the final round at Hampton Downs??

[doc]

Hi Everyone, Since it's my first post on here I hope I can get away with writting a noval.
Cheers,

Andrew

This is KB'r so as you are a noobie, remember your place. Some of the ppl on here will be quite prepared to offer you some advice. If you need a mentor I'm sure one will be available. Have you done your BHS yet, thats always a good start. :devil2:Don't complain about HD riders not waving, or I will red rep you

[Drew]

I vote we stop bringing up Hampton Downs, for the time being at least. The place is over program, I would wager good money the budget went out the window long ago. Although I'm not about to repeat the rumours I've heard, the only consistancy in them is the track fee will be astronomical.

The drop your worst round idea, does present better for someone financially able to do all four rounds, so perhaps not gonna increase entry numbers once people realise their chances are no better against the "cheque book racers".

Is there anyone that does not agree, media exposure has the most likely success odds for the growth of the sport?

[Quasievil]

Do you currently race in the NZ national road race series Quasi, as in the whole series?
This isn't an ignorant question and not at all a personal attack, I am just interested to know. I think you have very valid points.

No I havent no, but I dont think doing so gives me the qualification of using my Brain lol:chase:

I think its a fairly easy fix though personally anyway:msn-wink:

[cowpoos]

Big piston forks, hmmmmm. The jurys out on that one. Hardly a resounding success in racing circles thus far and there are a few issues that are created such as a very narrow adjustment range. I think many are victims of media hype on this one.


Showa factory race forks have been of the big piston variety for the last few years.

In saying that...a few top teams like the Rockstar makita yopshi team in the states have gone to Ohlins this season from showa.

[Robert Taylor]

Showa factory race forks have been of the big piston variety for the last few years.

In saying that...a few top teams like the Rockstar makita yopshi team in the states have gone to Ohlins this season from showa.

Sorry, getting off topic as Glen intimated earlier.
In fairness Ill rehash what I said earlier......Big piston forks are not the great leap forward that many scribes would have you believe and its easy to read between the lines. If in racing they were the great leap forward then theyd essentially be copied by other suspension manufacturers. That clearly has not happened and other suspension manufacturers products ( one in particular but I would say that! ) are in the winners circle much more often.
There is new production stuff pending from Ohlins but it absolutely will not mimic the Showa BPF setup. We in fact carried out very successful pre-production tests of this new concept recently at Paeroa ( Craig Shirriffs, Hayden Fitzgerald ) and Pukekohe last Nationals round ( Sam Smith and a variant in the bikes of Robbie Bugden and Andrew Stroud ) Part of the criteria being that these riders were loyal CKT tuned Ohlins users.
As I have said earlier motorcycle racing is also about the engineering and it pains me that there are people in high places who want to take that challenge away.

[Tony.OK]

Quasi I like some of your your ideas dude.....................being the naive newbie that I am I'd like to see your ideas implemented at all or most of the Nats rounds........................is that how it use to be back in its hey day?

One weekend of racing IMO doesn't deserve a Nats title, maybe a NI/SI champ instead.

Why doesn't someone just ask the Wanga's or Paeroa organisers to submit a tender/quote for running the Nats.......................:scratch:

[brads]

Quasi I like some of your your ideas dude.....................being the naive newbie that I am I'd like to see your ideas implemented at all or most of the Nats rounds........................is that how it use to be back in its hey day?

One weekend of racing IMO doesn't deserve a Nats title, maybe a NI/SI champ instead.

Why doesn't someone just ask the Wanga's or Paeroa organisers to submit a tender/quote for running the Nats.......................:scratch:

The streets were part of the nats back in 96/97,my opinion is they should not be part of the nats,you cant run a nats round over 1 day.

[Quasievil]

The streets were part of the nats back in 96/97,my opinion is they should not be part of the nats,you cant run a nats round over 1 day.

No not over 1 day over a long weekend mate

[Kickaha]

No not over 1 day over a long weekend mate

That's a glorified club round not a National Championship no matter how much coverage it gets

One of the reasons I left karting was the way their National championships are decided

I think it should be a minimum 4 rounds, 2 in the North and 2 in the South, Ruapuna as the GP is run there, and alternating between Teretonga and Levels

They also need to be run further apart, NI in November, SI in February/March or something similar, it means the financial outlay won't all be in one big hit over 2 months and it's easier to get time off work

Even one National meeting every 3 months so they're well spread out, is there any real reason they have to be run so close together?



Look at other motorsport events such as A1 GP, the Hamilton 400 very successful events, if any of them were run over 3-4 months the event wouldnt be covered as much on TV, the crowds would be smaller and sponsorship dollar would be smaller, and I guarantee you the number of entries would be smaller, I will also go so far as to say bikes are far more exciting!!


A more valid comparison to our National series would be with the NZV8 series which is well covered and promoted and gets better crowds than the bikes (or at least it did last time I went) if they can do it why can't we?

[brads]

No not over 1 day over a long weekend mate
Getting the streets closed for a weekend? good luck on that one

[Mishy]

The streets were part of the nats back in 96/97,my opinion is they should not be part of the nats,you cant run a nats round over 1 day.


Yes, quite right ! And if i remember rightly they were gently forced out of consideration as a national championship meeting by pressure from top riders based on them not wanting to have to compete for a national title on the streets. Many at the time considered the street races far more dangerous than the circuits, and were no longer prepared to compete at "championship level" on the streets.

[codgyoleracer]

A disappointing response Glen after your unsubstantiated statement about agendas, not up to your usual standard of excellent well thought out posts.
Suffice to say my primary motives ( agendas!!) are totally from a technical perspective, anyone that knows me well enough will 100% agree. Technical issues are interesting and I cite the SV650 air intake debacle where many people ( including myself ) went into bat for you and Terry.
If I make a little money from my line of business its fine, I believe making fair and reasonable money is okay and is certainly not a crime in the eyes of most people. Im certainly not driving an Aussie V8 nor have a lavish lifestyle from the proceeds!
There are some great ideas on this thread and it really highlights where a major portion of the costs come from, travel, fuel, accomodation, meals, etc. That impacts on all sports and some of the ideas have real merit


Ok Robert i will keep it simple for you.
To suggest that it is " dangerous" to race on standard suspension (albeit with spring mods) in a proddy style class (i.e superstock 600) is an extremly evocative way to make your point. Your professional position dictates that you should choose your words carefully as it could be easily be misconstrued that you have other agendas in mind.
As far as the second half of your post above - I have absolutley no idea what you are on about.

I can assure you though that it is my own absolute agenda to assist anyone (including mnz & any other entity or competitor for that matter) with my support if they have sound ideas on getting more competitors and more spectators into the national scene of nz road racing, particularily if it means getting new blood into the sport.
Glen Williams

[Robert Taylor]

That's a glorified club round not a National Championship no matter how much coverage it gets

One of the reasons I left karting was the way their National championships are decided

I think it should be a minimum 4 rounds, 2 in the North and 2 in the South, Ruapuna as the GP is run there, and alternating between Teretonga and Levels

They also need to be run further apart, NI in November, SI in February/March or something similar, it means the financial outlay won't all be in one big hit over 2 months and it's easier to get time off work

Even one National meeting every 3 months so they're well spread out, is there any real reason they have to be run so close together?



A more valid comparison to our National series would be with the NZV8 series which is well covered and promoted and gets better crowds than the bikes (or at least it did last time I went) if they can do it why can't we?

That makes sense. When did you do karting and in what classes? The political BS and protests in that sport are mind boggling.

[Robert Taylor]

Ok Robert i will keep it simple for you.
To suggest that it is " dangerous" to race on standard suspension (albeit with spring mods) in a proddy style class (i.e superstock 600) is an extremly evocative way to make your point. Your professional position dictates that you should choose your words carefully as it could be easily be misconstrued that you have other agendas in mind.
As far as the second half of your post above - I have absolutley no idea what you are on about.

I can assure you though that it is my own absolute agenda to assist anyone (including mnz & any other entity or competitor for that matter) with my support if they have sound ideas on getting more competitors and more spectators into the national scene of nz road racing, particularily if it means getting new blood into the sport.
Glen Williams

That was all I asked and I am sure there are people at the top of MNZ that are maintaining I have an agenda. But as I have pointed out many times we see tyre issues from ordinary everyday trackday riders. What applied in the 70s are less workable solutions here on the eve of the second decade in the 21st century.
I was making a point that being a suspension supplier / tuner is certainly not a passport to a lavish lifestyle. When I figure the hours put in against return you wonder why you do it.
Just like Christine Rankin I have no problem in being evocative / up front. We all want more competitors and spectators, no argument about that. There are many good ideas floating around and also some downright idiotic ones from people that have no idea of the technicalities involved. Lets place special emphasis on SOUND IDEAS.

[budda]

I was making a point that being a suspension supplier / tuner is certainly not a passport to a lavish lifestyle. When I figure the hours put in against return you wonder why you do it.
Just like Christine Rankin I have no problem in being evocative / up front. We all want more competitors and spectators, no argument about that. There are many good ideas floating around and also some downright idiotic ones from people that have no idea of the technicalities involved. Lets place special emphasis on SOUND IDEAS.

Jeesus Doc, now I'm making a picture of you in a blonde wig, short skirt and great big danglers ( EARRINGS !!!!! ) Thanks for that .......

[DEATH_INC.]

I kinda like Quasi's idea, but what about combining it with tony's, and run a north island champs on the four circuits (puke hampton taupo minefield) and a si champs on their tracks (sorry guys, dunno 'em but there are 3-4 right?) then the top 15 from each class in each island qualify to face off for the nats over 1 or 2 rounds? That should be fun.
Edit: BTW the stockcar/sprintcar/modified etc etc (all the dirttrack stuff) nats are run over one weekend(each one, not all together), and they are pretty big crowdwise.

[Kickaha]

That makes sense. When did you do karting and in what classes?

From somewhere around 97-98 thrugh to 2001-02 racing both short circuit and long circuit in 125 National and 250 Superkart


The political BS and protests in that sport are mind boggling.

I gave up short circuit racing because of the above and only did long circuit for the last couple of years because there was less of it although the gearbox classes seemed to attract less of it


I kinda like Quasi's idea, but what about combining it with tony's, and run a north island champs on the four circuits (puke hampton taupo minefield) and a si champs on their tracks (sorry guys, dunno 'em but there are 3-4 right?) then the top 15 from each class in each island qualify to face off for the nats over 1 or 2 rounds? That should be fun.
Edit: BTW the stockcar/sprintcar/modified etc etc (all the dirttrack stuff) nats are run over one weekend(each one, not all together), and they are pretty big crowdwise.

There's 3 SI tracks and you might be lucky to have a top 15 from each class as some classes wouldn't put those kind of numbers up for what will really be just club rounds

I can see the advanatge regarding numbers and Tv coverage for a a one off event as it will always be easier to promote but personally I think it'll be a pretty sad day when a one day meeting decides our National championship

Talking about well promoted one day meetings reminds me of the John Britten memorial. it had of what we're looking for but it only ran once

[Quasievil]

I can see the advanatge regarding numbers and Tv coverage for a a one off event as it will always be easier to promote but personally I think it'll be a pretty sad day when a one day meeting decides our National championship

Talking about well promoted one day meetings reminds me of the John Britten memorial. it had of what we're looking for but it only ran once


No Run the event over a long weekend two or three days mate.
And the most successful events are one day ones, example Paeroa, Wanganui (both of which have twenty times more spectators) or the Hamilton 400 etc

Unfortunetly its also a sad day when the Auckland round was almost cancelled due to lack of attendances, it ran and I was there and the crowd ? what crowd? the sad day is here, its time to do it differently

[Kickaha]

No Run the event over a long weekend two or three days mate.
And the most successful events are one day ones, example Paeroa, Wanganui (both of which have twenty times more spectators) or the Hamilton 400 etc

Sorry I should have said one weekend,


Unfortunetly its also a sad day when the Auckland round was almost cancelled due to lack of attendances, it ran and I was there and the crowd ? what crowd? the sad day is here, its time to do it differently

Yet Christchurch didn't have that problem

[scracha]

Ask yourselves this, how come SOT and the Taupo Roadrace Spectacular are more popular than any nationals round?

[Shaun]

Ask yourselves this, how come SOT and the Taupo Roadrace Spectacular are more popular than any nationals round?



I have my theory as to why this is so, but please give us yours

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Unfortunetly its also a sad day when the Auckland round was almost cancelled due to lack of attendances, it ran and I was there and the crowd ? what crowd? the sad day is here, its time to do it differently

agreed. current regime is not working.

[Quasievil]

Yet Christchurch didn't have that problem

Really ? on what basis
where there large crowds and advertising dollars spent, what was the prize money for the riders, did TV do more coverage of CHCH over the other rounds?

not being a smart arse my friend but its a National event that has failed you the riders and us the spectators from the perspectives raised earlier as being issues.

[Rcktfsh]

Sorry I should have said one weekend,



Yet Christchurch didn't have that problem

valid point, auckland round was probably worst for crowds, ruapuna and manfield in particular had reasonable spectator numbers. going on that why would you even think about running a single meeting national champs (which i'm against) in auckland be it hd or pukee?

[Quasievil]

valid point, auckland round was probably worst for crowds, ruapuna and manfield in particular had reasonable spectator numbers. going on that why would you even think about running a single meeting national champs (which i'm against) in auckland be it hd or pukee?

Youre right leave it the same its a winner !!:niceone:

[Shaun S]

valid point, auckland round was probably worst for crowds, ruapuna and manfield in particular had reasonable spectator numbers. going on that why would you even think about running a single meeting national champs (which i'm against) in auckland be it hd or pukee?Not as simple as you are making it out to be mate, but I think we all know that.

There are several contributing factors that hurt Puke this year.

We need to look at the big picture and come up with a plan. Talking about it here is just the bouncing of ideas stage; however without execution it is worthless. I am not convinced that this forum has enough substance to take it any further than the bouncing ideas stage, sad but true. Without backing ffrom MNZ etc, we are all just full of wind.

[Shaun Harris]

Not as simple as you are making it out to be mate, but I think we all know that.

There are several contributing factors that hurt Puke this year.

We need to look at the big picture and come up with a plan. Talking about it here is just the bouncing of ideas stage; however without execution it is worthless. I am not convinced that this forum has enough substance to take it any further than the bouncing ideas stage, sad but true. Without backing ffrom MNZ etc, we are all just full of wind.



Great points again man, I am SURE this thread is being followed/read by a person who can read between the lines. and DOES get of there arse and make things happen

EH JIM:niceone:

[Rcktfsh]

Youre right leave it the same its a winner !!:niceone:

I'm in no way suggesting that improvements can't be made but am concerned that the "baby could get thrown out with the bathwater" with some suggested remedies. What alot of people seem to be forgetting is the quality of racing the nationals provided this year, in this regard the format works. Gareth Jones results in Europe are ample proof of that, as an example following is his webpage race report from last weekend.

Jones the Bike adds more success to European cam-paign with outstanding podium on debut in the IDM, German Superbike Championship at Oschersleben.
Gareth Jones and the RT Motorsports teams ‘fairytale’ start to the 2009 European season continues to go from strength to strength. Not content with leading the ONK ‘Dutch’ Cham-pionship by 16 points after 3 rounds, or taking on the teams in the World Superbike paddock and battling his way to an excellent 7th position in the FIM World Superstock 1000, this week the 22 year old Aussie Ace opened his account in the highly competitive German IDM Superbike Championship.
The IDM Championship which attracts the best rid-ers from Germany, the Nordic Countries, Austria , Switzerland, Eastern Europe, Belgium and France including 2 times world champion Jorg Teuchert and Martin Bauer.
In his first visit to Oschersleben Gareth learnt the track quickly and raced to 5th place in the first race having qualified 12th after electing to use his race tyre rather than a specialist qualifying tyre in the 2nd qualifying session in order to simulate race conditions.
Jones, the 2009 NZ Supersport champion and NZ Superbike GP winner is no stranger to hard racing, In the winter he raced both Superbike and Supersport for the Bernard Yamaha team and in race 1 he worked his way quickly through the field before a nip and tuck battle with Philipp Hafeneger on the Suzuki held him up for 4 laps and allowed the leaders to get away from him. Gareth finally passed and took an excellent 5th place.
In Race 2 Gareth made a great start and closed the gap on the leaders earlier, out breaking the pack on the first corner to move through into 5th place. He then consolidated his position before fighting his way through the leading riders in this championship in the second half of the race. The race between Gareth and Werner Daemen on the faster BMW, Rizmayer on the Suzuki and Nebel on the KTM will long be remembered by the 15,000 fans and when Gareth crossed the finish line in 2nd place only 7/10th second covered places 2 through 5.
What makes this podium finish even more incredible is that Gareth is still riding the 2008 Ya-maha R1 and the only bike ahead of him was the German factory Yamaha 2009 R1 of Jorg Teuchart.
The truth of the matter is that privateer teams are not supposed to go to one of the top Interna-tional championships on last years bike against all of the local factory teams, with a young rider making his debut and first time out get on the podium—unless you are special, today was a very special day.
Quote from Team Manager Rob Vennegoor
“ I am absolutely delighted. The team has proved once again that we belong in the highest level of competition. We can be competitive in the World Superbike paddock, in the IDM pad-dock and we are leading the ONK „Dutch‟ Championship at this stage in the season. Although we are using the 2008 Yamaha R1 we are getting everything we can out of its capability and we continue to improve.
In Gareth, we have an outstanding rider who is fast, with a level of maturity beyond his years who works with his engineers to ensure we all understand what is required of the bike. The team then works to deliver the optimal racing package for the race and can rely on Gareth to exploit it to the full..
Today we made a small piece of history when Gareth became the first ONK championship rider to podium in the IDM, and we can all take pride in it, as a team.
However, we have a job to focus on this season, which is to win the ONK, but with the right financial support package we could easily be competing successfully in any of the champion-ships and winning. At present with the balance of rider and bike the only limits to our ambitions are financial.”
Quote from Gareth Jones
“Riders live for days like today, I came to Europe to learn the tracks and race against the best, and the riders in the IDM are fast. The more hard riding I get the more I can feel myself devel-oping. Most importantly I am enjoying my racing, which is a pretty important thing if it‟s your job and is a testament to Rob and the team.
When we arrived in Oschersleben I had never seen the track before and this was my first time in the IDM paddock, I didn‟t know any of the riders except for Kai Borre Andersen whom I had beaten in a tight race at Assen in the ONK championship.
We came here to do a job which was to prepare for the ONK „Dutch‟ Superbike round later in the year. For that reason we decided to use race tyres rather than the qualifiers which were available to us with the result was that we only qualified 12th but I got 20 consistent laps in, rather than 3 or 4 quick laps.
I am confident in the bike preparation so although there were some great riders ahead of me I always felt that I would be competing at the sharp end because historically I have always done quite well in longer race formats. I believe I can gain places as the tyres lose grip and I feel strong mentally and physically after racing 4 rounds in a day all winter in NZ .
In race 1 I made a good start but had to make my way through too much traffic and became separated from the leaders and against the best riders it‟s difficult to recover, I therefore had to accept 5th place. In race 2 I decided to race from the front and I realised that there was a tactical need to get into position to attack early on so I went earlier and had a challenging race against 3 bikes which had more straight line speed. Agility versus speed is always a great test and today I came out on top. I am looking forward to more rounds in the IDM championship when possible.
I am now looking forward to the next challenge, racing the street circuits in Hengelo and Oss on the next two weekends I have had some success in the „King of the Streets‟ series in New Zealand and I enjoyed the format but it will still be a great learning exercise.”

[Quasievil]

I'm in no way suggesting that improvements can't be made but am concerned that the "baby could get thrown out with the bathwater" with some suggested remedies. What alot of people seem to be forgetting is the quality of racing the nationals provided this year, in this regard the format works.

The Quality of racing is second to the event itself ie no event no racing, the event is not responsible for the quality of racing the riders in attendance are, the event and its success or failure reflects the quality of riders (ie international riders) and the quantity of spectator, sponsorship dollars etc etc.

The event is the issue not the racing, make the event and the follow on from it is almost automatic.

It seems to me sofar from this thread that the riders want their cake and they want to eat it to, they want to race on all the tracks in the country (but bitch about the cost) and they want to increase the exposure for the sport (but dont want to change anything) enjoy the benefits of this increased exposure via way of spectator numbers , number of riders, increased media support linking to sponsorship opportunities ( but dont want to change anything)

I firmly believe that the whole nationals event need to be thrown out and re invented, towards getting the Sport (our sport) into the spotlight, so we as racers (I include my motarding self) can enjoy the fruits of it.

those fruits I need not explain further as I have already, but to summaraise its MONEY, money from the media , market sponsorhip, attendances, and personal racer sponsorship the list does actually go on.

If you make the right event success in ALL AREAS will follow.

I still cannot see why a Club level qualification process and a national one weekend BIG FUCKING SHOW (B.F.S) event would not work, I would like to know what you all think about this?

[Benk]

I still cannot see why a Club level qualification process and a national one weekend BIG FUCKING SHOW (B.F.S) event would not work, I would like to know what you all think about this?

Sounds awesome to me. Would be easier to promote & cheaper to compete in. Win win. Only problem would be if the actual nationals racers would be keen on this?

[Quasievil]

Sounds awesome to me. Would be easier to promote & cheaper to compete in. Win win. Only problem would be if the actual nationals racers would be keen on this?

Depends on if they wanted to be the national champion or not, lol hey but Im just trying to contribute best as I can, Im a nobody in this league :eek:

[steveyb]

All of the talk about saving money and this and that.
What we need are more classes so that everyone can race whatever they have.
In so many things we follow the lead of the USA, TV, Movies, Music, American Idol, so why not in racing too.

I think this is the perfect template for what we can make our sport here.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36596

Enjoy.

Steve

PS: for those who lost their funny bones :msn-wink:

[Shaun P]

All of the talk about saving money and this and that.
What we need are more classes so that everyone can race whatever they have.
In so many things we follow the lead of the USA, TV, Movies, Music, American Idol, so why not in racing too.

I think this is the perfect template for what we can make our sport here.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=36596

Enjoy.

Steve

PS: for those who lost their funny bones :msn-wink:

Yep American idol is my all time favourite... if we make enough classes everyone could be a winner too :first:

[jellywrestler]

[U]Do the whole nationals race event over one long bloody weekend

Can you imagine anyone bothering to build a bike for one meeting?
Interesting idea but the wrong direction I'm sure.
A series is a great thing; I travelled to all the rounds after teretonga and watching the races in all classes evolving throughout the series was great.

What was lacking was spectators. Advertising to the converted is where most of the effort has gone recently, although I did see a bit on telly. How about getting into a national chain where all forms of life visit on a regular basis, gas stations would be the simplest and most effective. One doesn't need lots of money to get into their distribution network either. I'm suggesting a poster in every petrol station of one brand throughout NZ, and to top it off tickets available there too, discounted if one buys a certain amount of motion lotion that'll scratch the sponsors(supporters) back.
Once joe blow walks out of the gas station with his cheap ticket he'll tell his mates, with a bit of luck they'll grab a chilly bin and go along too, more spectators more impact for the sponsors. More spectators more justification to the TV folk that this sport is popular and it snowballs from there.

Talking the right way to said national distribution people I'm sure it could come down to a little more than printing costs a lot cheaper than through a lot of other medias.
How many times have you and your mates gone to a gas station this week as a opposed to the local motorcycle shop??

[Drew]

Ask yourselves this, how come SOT and the Taupo Roadrace Spectacular are more popular than any nationals round?

Sound of thunder is a BEARs event, and has PRIZE MONEY.

Road race spectacular...three days thrashing, for piss all over $100, why wouldn't heaps of people show up?

[Quasievil]

Can you imagine anyone bothering to build a bike for one meeting?
Interesting idea but the wrong direction I'm sure.
A series is a great thing; I travelled to all the rounds after teretonga and watching the races in all classes evolving throughout the series was great. What was lacking was spectators. Advertising to the converted is where most of the effort has gone recently, although I did see a bit on telly. How about getting into a national chain where all forms of life visit on a regualr basis, gas stations would be the simplest and most effective. One doesn't need lots of money to get into their distribution network either. I'm suggesting a poster in every petrol statio of one brand throughout NZ, and to top it off tickets available there too, discounted if one buys a certain amount of motion lotion that'll sctrach the sponsers(supporters) back.
Once joe blow walks out of the gas station with his cheap ticket he'll tell his mates, with a bit of luck they'll grab a chilly bin and go along too, more spectators more impact for the sponsors. More spectators more justification to the TV folk that this sport is popular and it snowballs from there.

Talking the right way to said national distribution people I'm sure it could come down to a little more than printing costs a lot cheaper than through a lot of other medias.
How many times have you and your mates gone to a gas station this week as a opposed to the local motorcycle shop.

No I cannot to be honest with you, but then they still have a bunch of other races to do as well, Paeroa, Wanganui not to mention the club racing scene (which many dont bother about) and isnt that one of the other problems with the NZ racing scene, the leading racers chase the popular race meetings Paeroa, Wanganui and the Nationals and turn their backs on the club races.

Anyway it seems a bike will become easier to build anyway with potential development limitations.


I hear you about posters etc but mate I think this is a minimal effort that will offer minimal results to be fair it all helps but who is going to pay for 10,000 posters?
Bikers already know about the Nationals and only a small percentage actually go to the racing, to make it work to a level that will make a change is by tapping into a new market, ie motorsport fans generally as well as people that want a day out to see a spectacle of a show, To do this you need to have something big something exciting and something that the punter will pay to see.
There is no value in walking out a gas station with a cheap ticket, perceived value will be low, charge $45 a ticket per day and perceived value is higher, couple that with a **SHOW**, some media hype and promotion via positive sponsor dollar and you will not only capture a new market but you will turn the whole motorcycle racing scene around extremely quickly, and that filters deep into the industry also.
Examples??? how many people are at the paeroa street races, how many go that arent into bikes?? the answer is heaps on both counts, the reason is this, they go as they expect a great days entertainment, a spectacle A SHOW.............imagine if this went a few steps further by way of the NZ SUPERBIKE CHAMPIONSHIP, throw a three day event at the market and I guarantee the entire racing community will do there utmost to get there.

Maybe I think to big, but I still see it as the answer to get the scene off the ground

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

Sounds awesome to me. Would be easier to promote & cheaper to compete in. Win win. Only problem would be if the actual nationals racers would be keen on this?

an event like this should be able to attract reasonable prize money. My thinking is: glory of winnig a 2 day event in front of 000's spectators (who are not just family and friends, actual joe public) and TV camera's AND good prize money vs dragging you arse and sundry around the countryside for 5 rounds, taking the home the trophy, BUT no-one knows about it,no prizemoney and a 10k VISA bill. What would the racer pick?

Would it really matter what the regulars think? Even a tight arse accounting student of scottish descent type, such as myself, would stink some money into a mint setup to have-a-go. Im sure many others would too. And hey if you have an out standing day/s of riding you may go home with a nat. title!!

Also think of the prize money attracting "hired guns" from overseas and then say that such an event wouldnt be supporting rider development.

Such events as the Taupo International MX certainly dont hurt the MX scene when the young-uns see their idols battling it out on NZ soil and want to do the same!

still a crazy idea? maybe too crazy for NZ, alas.

admitedly a subjective view but you get the drift:msn-wink:

[Scouse]

That he is a current rider at the sharp end ( in this century! ) gives him a LOT of credibility.And so remind me when was the last time you did any road racing?

[Shaun P]

And so remind me when was the last time you did any road racing?
:whocares::tugger:

[Drew]

And so remind me when was the last time you did any road racing?

To my knowledge, Robert has never raced a road bike, but you have taken his comment completely out of context, making yourself look quite the cock.

Knock off the trolling folks, I really hope this thread turns into more than just idea bouncing. My motive is purely selfish, I want bigger events, prize money, noteriety (yeah right).

Does anyone know the figures for an hour segment on telle, to cover the national events we have now, (that will likely not be changed in the next couple years)?

Seek sponsorship ourselves, some of us are sending proposals out anyway, why not add to it, asking about event promotion too?

[Scouse]

To my knowledge, Robert has never raced a road bike, but you have taken his comment completely out of context, making yourself look quite the cock.

Knock off the trolling folks, I really hope this thread turns into more than just idea bouncing. My motive is purely selfish, I want bigger events, prize money, noteriety (yeah right).

Does anyone know the figures for an hour segment on telle, to cover the national events we have now, (that will likely not be changed in the next couple years)?

Seek sponsorship ourselves, some of us are sending proposals out anyway, why not add to it, asking about event promotion too?No I haven't taken taylors comment out of context he was clearly having a snide underhanded swipe at the present CEO of MNZ and as a freind of Paul Pav I will bite back. so go and fuck yourself drew.

[sidecar bob]

Sound of thunder is a BEARs event, and has PRIZE MONEY.

Road race spectacular...three days thrashing, for piss all over $100, why wouldn't heaps of people show up?

Interestingly enough the Road Race Spectacular is essentially run by two enthusiastic & intelligent competitors, without a committee in sight. Why exactly is it so popular??
I do know that the organisers are always responding to suggestions & listening very hard to the competitors even when you think they arent.

[cowpoos]

Interestingly enough the Road Race Spectacular is essentially run by two enthusiastic & intelligent competitors, without a committee in sight. Why exactly is it so popular??
I do know that the organisers are always responding to suggestions & listening very hard to the competitors even when you think they arent.
like the Vic club...who has a fantasticly popular series!!

[Robert Taylor]

Depends on if they wanted to be the national champion or not, lol hey but Im just trying to contribute best as I can, Im a nobody in this league :eek:

Dont beat youself up Quasi, youve come up with some very good ideas. You may sell leathers that compete with thiose peddled by my business partner but your demeanour and contributions are worthy of respect

[Kickaha]

Really ? on what basis
where there large crowds and advertising dollars spent, what was the prize money for the riders, did TV do more coverage of CHCH over the other rounds?

I wouldn't say large crowds but the crowd at Auckland was the smallest from any round I attended and being next door to the largest population in NZ that's not what I'd expect



There are several contributing factors that hurt Puke this year.


Which are?


Can you imagine anyone bothering to build a bike for one meeting?

Actually to win a National Championship on one track at one weekend I can, if you wanted the championship you'd build the bike, do all the possible club days there plus at least a trackday a month to give yourself an advantage, you'd become a one track wonder to win the NZ champs


What would the racer pick?

I'd pick a series over several tracks myself even though I see a lot of advantages to a one off meeting it just doesn't have the same appeal



Does anyone know the figures for an hour segment on telle, to cover the national events we have now, (that will likely not be changed in the next couple years)?

Scrivy said 10,000+gst for 45 minutes for the Tri series, I'm not sure how long after the event it was shown or how it compares to what was spent on Nationals coverage


like the Vic club...who has a fantasticly popular series!!

Yet the same people who supply huge grids for that series don't even suport the local Championship round that Vic club holds

[Robert Taylor]

Can you imagine anyone bothering to build a bike for one meeting?
Interesting idea but the wrong direction I'm sure.
A series is a great thing; I travelled to all the rounds after teretonga and watching the races in all classes evolving throughout the series was great.

What was lacking was spectators. Advertising to the converted is where most of the effort has gone recently, although I did see a bit on telly. How about getting into a national chain where all forms of life visit on a regular basis, gas stations would be the simplest and most effective. One doesn't need lots of money to get into their distribution network either. I'm suggesting a poster in every petrol station of one brand throughout NZ, and to top it off tickets available there too, discounted if one buys a certain amount of motion lotion that'll scratch the sponsors(supporters) back.
Once joe blow walks out of the gas station with his cheap ticket he'll tell his mates, with a bit of luck they'll grab a chilly bin and go along too, more spectators more impact for the sponsors. More spectators more justification to the TV folk that this sport is popular and it snowballs from there.

Talking the right way to said national distribution people I'm sure it could come down to a little more than printing costs a lot cheaper than through a lot of other medias.
How many times have you and your mates gone to a gas station this week as a opposed to the local motorcycle shop??

Yep, it is a fantastic spectacle, car racing in comparison is a big yawn.

[Robert Taylor]

And so remind me when was the last time you did any road racing?

So what you are in effect intimating is that because I am not a racer I am totally unqualified to comment..... Point of fact without industry support ( which is substanial ) and many willing helpers many road racers over the years wouldnt have been able to get their ''fix''. Your friend the ''everything should be stock standard guy'' spent a number of laps on a TZ750 that I spent many hours on, totally unpaid.
There are so many users in this sport that take so much for granted. Time they got in the real flipping world and stopped preaching a shonky flipping morality.

[scracha]

Interestingly enough the Road Race Spectacular is essentially run by two enthusiastic & intelligent competitors, without a committee in sight. Why exactly is it so popular??
I do know that the organisers are always responding to suggestions & listening very hard to the competitors even when you think they arent.

Holy fuck ... glad someone figured out my previous comment. Dictatorships can actually work

Scouse...whilst I agree with some of your posts from time to time I don't think input onto a successfully ran meeting with lots of spectators has to come from a successful or current road racer. In fact, I'd say quite the opposite. As I've said before, good football players more often than not make $hit managers and good motorcycle racers are not different. Being good at racing motorcycles does not mean you have great intellect, business, people and marketing skills.

Quasi's idea has merit.

You guys can waffle all you like about MNZ fixing this and that. Personally I think MNZ is fucked for road racing and unless it drastically changes then there's a stronger chance that the money, spectators and riders will be attending more events ran by scrivvy and bob and their ilk than the "official" nationals.

[Robert Taylor]

No I haven't taken taylors comment out of context he was clearly having a snide underhanded swipe at the present CEO of MNZ and as a freind of Paul Pav I will bite back. so go and fuck yourself drew.

You know, this is the silly thing, I disagree with Pauls ideas but not his intent and can still hold a cordial conversation with him. That you are adopting a bully boy demeanour (some may call it lack of breeding ) on his behalf ( whether he has asked for it or not ) does Paul no favours at all.

[Drew]

You know, this is the silly thing, I disagree with Pauls ideas but not his intent and can still hold a cordial conversation with him. That you are adopting a bully boy demeanour (some may call it lack of breeding ) on his behalf ( whether he has asked for it or not ) does Paul no favours at all.

How would you set up a bike, for whatever the road to hell is paved with RT?

Anyhoo, back on topic.

$10,000 for 45 minutes is quite a lot of money, when considering there are five rounds. But by doing nothing but increasing the licence fee for road riders by $100, it is covered nearly twice.

So we could use the rest of the money, to advertise, and get more arses in seats. That in turn creates revenew of it's own, and a snowball is born.

Lets ask the racers, would that $100 per anum be worth it, and would they pay? I would.

[scracha]

Lets ask the racers, would that $100 per anum be worth it, and would they pay? I would.

There's a few punters on the race scene I'd pay the extra $100 towards but MNZ aint one of them mate.

[AndrewStroud]

Although I appreciate where everyone is coming from, I feel that only one event would not work. Maybe 2 events one North and one South Island? However the beauty of the NZ nationals is that the racers get to race on several tracks. This sometimes gives some home track advantage, while others have to show how fast they adapt, and this is part of the game.

I would say keep it as it is, but have one huge event at the end, like a grand finale, this can count for a third of the points on its own, and have massive publicity etc.

This GP here and then TT there does not make sense. We should race the season and then finish off with a big one as celebration and acknowledgement of what we have done the year.


100% Agree

ANDREW STROUD- Speak up please mate ha ha, Andrew said some thing very very similar to me on Saturday at Taupo:niceone:


Shaun, I'm trying to remember what I'm supposed to speak up about....
If it's regarding the above post; I agree as well. I'd be surprised if any of the distributors would prepare a bike for one National event. In considering promo value; -currently there are numerous magazine and newspaper articles surrounding each National meeting. If there was only one event then it would need to be a massive one to make it stack up. Also how do you make it such a big event?? Just calling it the NZ Nationals??
I'd rather look to enhance the current series myself. ...
- Re GP & TT; They could carry double points to give them some more seriousness while setting them apart from the other races.
- Re Teretonga; Be great if the Burt Munroe festival was at the right time of year to hold a National round at. Or could the National dates change to have the Teretonga round on that weekend. Could mean all the South Island rounds done before Christmas..............

[CHOPPA]

Shaun, I'm trying to remember what I'm supposed to speak up about....
If it's regarding the above post; I agree as well. I'd be surprised if any of the distributors would prepare a bike for one National event. In considering promo value; -currently there are numerous magazine and newspaper articles surrounding each National meeting. If there was only one event then it would need to be a massive one to make it stack up. Also how do you make it such a big event?? Just calling it the NZ Nationals??
I'd rather look to enhance the current series myself. ...
- Re GP & TT; They could carry double points to give them some more seriousness while setting them apart from the other races.
- Re Teretonga; Be great if the Burt Munroe festival was at the right time of year to hold a National round at. Or could the National dates change to have the Teretonga round on that weekend. Could mean all the South Island rounds done before Christmas..............

Im sure for someone like you there could be some good money to be made being a promoter and there has been talk that MNZ needs a paid promoter as well, maybe when you have had enough of racing....?? :bleh:

[Drew]

There's a few punters on the race scene I'd pay the extra $100 towards but MNZ aint one of them mate.


I asked if you would pay the extra $100 to get the nationals televised, not what you think of MNZ.

[Quasievil]

I'd be surprised if any of the distributors would prepare a bike for one National event.

But it wouldn't be one event would it mate, you have for example Wanganui, Paeroa, Road Race Spectacular, Numerous club events and a three day National round it would certainly be viable to build a bike (and arent they getting easier to build with changes in the regs?)




In considering promo value; - Also how do you make it such a big event?? Just calling it the NZ Nationals??

It would need a focused team of people or a promoter to get it off the ground it would need to be done in a similar way to organising a (thinks of a comparison) Crusty Demons, or A1 GP or Hamilton 400 etc, it needs to be multi focused ie entertainment, product displays, stunt shows, dirt shows, motard display, Incorporate a NZ Bike show, I could think of 100 things to have going to make it cool from a lap of Honour with some top racers of past and current to some Hot Brolly dolly competitions, have some good bands playing at night for the campers.

I know it breaks the mould and its sounds so BIG and Circus like But if you want exposure Money and People you need to GIVE PEOPLE A SHOW . I would guarantee that a event like this would succeed in reaching the goals, the only potential drawback for the riders is the reduction in the number of events to secure the title, but over a 3 day event Im sure 4-6 races could be worked in for each class (better get fit eh).

Please note my earlier comment however where I suggested that a level of qualification could be gained from club level racing or an event like the road race spectacular, this would be to qualify the competitors as I believe there would be shitloads of entries, in saying this however off shore racers would need to be rated accordingly for entry.

Advantages

*Lower costs for each racer (via travel costs time off work etc)
*Bigger prize Money pool from increased revenue
*Increased Sport Exposure
*higher Media and Print coverage
*More Sponsorship revenue from bigger sponsors (and more of them)
*More Sponsorship dollars for the racer himself (I believe)
*Larger Attendances from the public
*Increased exposure for the riders sponsors
*More international riders (I believe)

Think Hamilton 400 on two wheels

Disadvantages are few

*Fewer Tracks utilised in the Series
*Potential home track advantage (solved by local club level points)
*(you guys can think of more I aint pissing in my own grave lol )

Thats my thinking anyway, different and will require some change of thought but based on the current moulds issues Im yet to here a better idea?

[Shaun]

Andrew, you SPOKE up perfect, you explained in your last post, what I was getting at, as you had said this to me at Taupo on Saturday.




I VOTE FOR QUASI:beer:

[scrivy]

You've got great ideas Quasi, and thinking outside the square......

You looked at some of my plans for the TRRS this year????? :shifty::first:
More will be revealed very soon................. :Punk:

[Shaun]

No I haven't taken taylors comment out of context he was clearly having a snide underhanded swipe at the present CEO of MNZ and as a freind of Paul Pav I will bite back. so go and fuck yourself drew.


That;s so funny Scouse, you and Paul Pav both use rather bad language in places where people may be offended, " LIKE THE IMPORTER MEETING"

Perhaps all you people speaking on Paul Pav's behalf, better grow up real quick, as all you are doing is Actually Making Paul P look weak, as he does not ever deffend himself on here, knowing we are all talking about him, and he is OUR PAID STAFF memeber, so WE HAVE the write to say what we want to about him

[Shaun]

Interestingly enough the Road Race Spectacular is essentially run by two intelligent competitors...

Ba ha ha ha ha ha BURP! Woops

[Shaun S]

Ba ha ha ha ha ha BURP! WoopsFuck thats funny, I got stuck when he used the word "intelligent" to descibe Scrivy. :shifty: :laugh:

[JayRacer37]

Sounds like a hell of an idea Quasi. Reminds me of Red Fentons (Triple R) John Britten Memorial meeting. He had just a bit more than a normal meetings advertisement, just a bit more promos and attractions at the meeting, and it really went off, was a great meeting.

Sketchy racer and I were talking yesterday about possible reasons why people arn't doing the nationals. These ranged from cost to build a bike (which it seems MNZ are trying to adress now) to lack of sponsorship (not willing to pay for it themselves). Then to the guys who couldn't afford to do the whole championship but could do one island (north or south) but chose not to since they wouldn't 'get' anything out at the end of it (result, ranking).

We came up with the idea of holding a separate North and South cup within the nationals where your points at each island counted to a championship result. Sketchy is actually a good representitive of this - he couldn't do South island this year so finished 5th in F3. With a NI/SI cup his seasons results would be F3 5th, NI cup 1st, SI Cup not participated. This gives the club guys more of an incentive to show up at the national rounds for their island and try to get a result within that. It's also something that bridges the gap between localised club meets and the whole national series.

Jay

[Shaun]

Good thinking boys

[JayRacer37]

Good thinking boys

The other thing is, it wouldn't cost anything and would be as easy to impliment as asking Tim Gibbes to make a couple of seperate tables up in his spreadsheets.

[scrivy]

Ba ha ha ha ha ha BURP! Woops
You have to remember Shaun, that Sidecar Bob is just a sidecar passenger - so to him, I 'seem' to be intelligent........ :laugh:


Fuck thats funny, I got stuck when he used the word "intelligent" to descibe Scrivy. :shifty: :laugh:
I'm hurt mate, real hurt......... (but I guess the truth always hurts....) :doh:
But Shaun S, I can tie my own shoelaces, and only lick the occasional window......................... (if no-ones watching...)

Anyway, enough BS, back to the serious stuff!!!!

[Robert Taylor]

Ba ha ha ha ha ha BURP! Woops

And heck what a hell of a good job they did as well!

[Quasievil]

You've got great ideas Quasi, and thinking outside the square......

You looked at some of my plans for the TRRS this year????? :shifty::first:
More will be revealed very soon................. :Punk:

Cheers mate, I hadnt seen your plans up until a moment ago, it looks really good, I enjoyed the three days of solid racing last year I had a blast.
Infact your event proves testimony to the fact that it can be done.

[Quasievil]

Sounds like a hell of an idea Quasi. Reminds me of Red Fentons (Triple R) John Britten Memorial meeting. He had just a bit more than a normal meetings advertisement, just a bit more promos and attractions at the meeting, and it really went off, was a great meeting.

Sketchy racer and I were talking yesterday about possible reasons why people arn't doing the nationals. These ranged from cost to build a bike (which it seems MNZ are trying to adress now) to lack of sponsorship (not willing to pay for it themselves). Then to the guys who couldn't afford to do the whole championship but could do one island (north or south) but chose not to since they wouldn't 'get' anything out at the end of it (result, ranking).

We came up with the idea of holding a separate North and South cup within the nationals where your points at each island counted to a championship result. Sketchy is actually a good representitive of this - he couldn't do South island this year so finished 5th in F3. With a NI/SI cup his seasons results would be F3 5th, NI cup 1st, SI Cup not participated. This gives the club guys more of an incentive to show up at the national rounds for their island and try to get a result within that. It's also something that bridges the gap between localised club meets and the whole national series.

Jay

Good thinking Jay, I wonder tho how much actual racing becomes to much (ducks for cover) in that there is a reasonable amount of club racing already VMCC PMCC AMC TRRS, Street events etc (in the N.I) is there time for another whole series?
and I think that one or two rounds of a club level race round could actually attribute points to the the big show) for example

VMCC round 4 & 5 National Championship round
AMC Round 2 National Championship round
TRRS National Championship round

Duplicate that in the south island (sorry SI crew I dont know the rounds you have but you get the drift?)

Then from those rounds qualification etc hold the NZ National Championship (as I have described ya know the big show)

Bennifits I see here are an increase in the involvement of leading racers and race crews at club level as well as a Qualification process so all n sundry dont just pick n choose the National final.
Would it be also fair to say that it would increase the profile of the club events as well as drag some newer riders up as well as ,well, basically raise the bar in NZ racing??

Im thinking this would work well

[JayRacer37]

Good thinking Jay, I wonder tho how much actual racing becomes to much (ducks for cover) in that there is a reasonable amount of club racing already VMCC PMCC AMC TRRS, Street events etc (in the N.I) is there time for another whole series?
and I think that one or two rounds of a club level race round could actually attribute points to the the big show) for example

VMCC round 4 & 5 National Championship round
AMC Round 2 National Championship round
TRRS National Championship round

Duplicate that in the south island (sorry SI crew I dont know the rounds you have but you get the drift?)

Then from those rounds qualification etc hold the NZ National Championship (as I have described ya know the big show)

Bennifits I see here are an increase in the involvement of leading racers and race crews at club level as well as a Qualification process so all n sundry dont just pick n choose the National final.
Would it be also fair to say that it would increase the profile of the club events as well as drag some newer riders up as well as ,well, basically raise the bar in NZ racing??

Im thinking this would work well

So rather than have a national series per se, you would have it broken up into the last few rounds of each club championship? And then have one big 'Event' to do what? Would all of the national results come from this one event or would points from all of the club 'national' rounds count towards this? Do you have to participate in each club round to be able to win the 'event' nationals?

[codgyoleracer]

Sounds like a hell of an idea Quasi. Reminds me of Red Fentons (Triple R) John Britten Memorial meeting. He had just a bit more than a normal meetings advertisement, just a bit more promos and attractions at the meeting, and it really went off, was a great meeting.

Sketchy racer and I were talking yesterday about possible reasons why people arn't doing the nationals. These ranged from cost to build a bike (which it seems MNZ are trying to adress now) to lack of sponsorship (not willing to pay for it themselves). Then to the guys who couldn't afford to do the whole championship but could do one island (north or south) but chose not to since they wouldn't 'get' anything out at the end of it (result, ranking).

We came up with the idea of holding a separate North and South cup within the nationals where your points at each island counted to a championship result. Sketchy is actually a good representitive of this - he couldn't do South island this year so finished 5th in F3. With a NI/SI cup his seasons results would be F3 5th, NI cup 1st, SI Cup not participated. This gives the club guys more of an incentive to show up at the national rounds for their island and try to get a result within that. It's also something that bridges the gap between localised club meets and the whole national series.

Jay

Not a bad angle Jay/Sketchy

[Quasievil]

So rather than have a national series per se, you would have it broken up into the last few rounds of each club championship? And then have one big 'Event' to do what? Would all of the national results come from this one event or would points from all of the club 'national' rounds count towards this? Do you have to participate in each club round to be able to win the 'event' nationals?

Yeah, drop the current format of the nationals round break it up into some rounds of the club events where they gain Points that will contribute and qualify them to go into the final also from this (as you suggest) gain your N.I and S.I Leading riders and throw them into one BIG SHOW for the final championship event so if I was a racer in the north island wanting to be the NZ champion my Nationals calendar would look like this

VMCC round 4 & 5 National Championship round
AMC Round 2 National Championship round
TRRS National Championship round
THE BIG SHOW

As well as any other racing I wanted to do.

that work ?

[AndrewStroud]

Im sure for someone like you there could be some good money to be made being a promoter and there has been talk that MNZ needs a paid promoter as well, maybe when you have had enough of racing....?? :bleh:

maybe.....I was thinking about it last night actually

[JayRacer37]

Yeah, drop the current format of the nationals round break it up into some rounds of the club events where they gain Points that will contribute and qualify them to go into the final also from this (as you suggest) gain your N.I and S.I Leading riders and throw them into one BIG SHOW for the final championship event so if I was a racer in the north island wanting to be the NZ champion my Nationals calendar would look like this

VMCC round 4 & 5 National Championship round
AMC Round 2 National Championship round
TRRS National Championship round
THE BIG SHOW

As well as any other racing I wanted to do.

that work ?

Yeah,

I was worried that you proposed that you had to do all the club rounds. That would just end up being more expensive as you traveled around the country randomly rather than the set schedule of the nationals. Disadvatages I can see to this idea are:

1) Club weather/winter. The best part of nationals is racing in decent weather. Either the clubs would have to move their rounds to be more in summer, or all the riding in NZ would become Shitty halfarse weather like we get in the club championships currently.

2) The whole championship coming down to one meeting. At the moment with 600/superbikes we are only doing 2 races a round and that makes it a ten race 'championship'. I think we need to go back to 3 races a round, or more if possible.
I do not like the idea of the whole championship decided in one round. If you were to have a fall or two in the national championship as it is now, you can recover and not be massivly disadvantaged (Dennis Charlett won 600sp 2008 with a fall). This would be even better with more races or more rounds in the current national championship. But with your idea, you fall, or run off track, your f**ked for a result. Why spend the money to build a bike for the purpose of one meeting (as Stroudy said). There would be little point risking that much money when it could all go down the drain that easily.

I'd like to see a national championship that went:

Wanganui
Nelson street races
Teretonga
Levels
Ruapuna
Greymouth street races
Paeroa
Manfeild
Taupo
Hampton Downs
Pukekohe

With Two races at least at each.

Now thats a championship!!!

AND I'd like to see NZ follow World Superbike/World Supersport/World Superstock rules. Give us cool bikes that we can take international!!!

But all of the above is ABSOLUTE dreaming. Forbid making a championship worth racing!!! ;) :D :jerry:

[scrivy]

maybe.....I was thinking about it last night actually

WHAT???? You mean with a dirty nappy in one hand, and a baby in the other... :rofl:

Seriously mate, you and Karyn together would make a great promotions team.

[Shaun]

WHAT???? You mean with a dirty nappy in one hand, and a baby in the other... :rofl:

Seriously mate, you and Karyn together would make a great promotions team.


I told them both the same thing about 1 month ago mate. Andrew and Karyn as a team doing this, WILL = Success

In fact, I vote for Andrew and Karyn to take over the roll of Joint CEO of MNZ

Just having Andrew in that role, all but Guarantees huge support from the industery

[racer40]

sounds good jay, especially with all the street races, but in reality we cant even get good grids for 5 rounds so it wouldnt work

[JayRacer37]

sounds good jay, especially with all the street races, but in reality we cant even get good grids for 5 rounds so it wouldnt work

If your going to go racing, why not do it properly? Perhaps the entries will come up since there is so much more national racing to do...

The whole thing is kind of odd to me. For our population base vs. other countries we get pretty good grid numbers really don't we?

[Quasievil]

1) Club weather/winter. The best part of nationals is racing in decent weather. Either the clubs would have to move their rounds to be more in summer, or all the riding in NZ would become Shitty halfarse weather like we get in the club championships currently.

No mate I suggest races that are in the latter part of the year say October/November on


Wanganui
Nelson street races
Teretonga
Levels
Ruapuna
Greymouth street races
Paeroa
Manfeild
Taupo
Hampton Downs
Pukekohe

With Two races at least at each.

Now thats a championship!!!



well yeah in a ideal world but this goes against the core of the problems now, ie rising costs and lack of supoort coverage sponsorship la de da........

needs to be smaller with a bigger impact

[koba]

We came up with the idea of holding a separate North and South cup within the nationals where your points at each island counted to a championship result. Sketchy is actually a good representitive of this - he couldn't do South island this year so finished 5th in F3. With a NI/SI cup his seasons results would be F3 5th, NI cup 1st, SI Cup not participated. This gives the club guys more of an incentive to show up at the national rounds for their island and try to get a result within that. It's also something that bridges the gap between localised club meets and the whole national series.

Jay

This has the added advantage of a racer in the same situation as Glen who could only do one Islands rounds still gets the chance to measure up at a full paced national event, possibly providing the opportunity to prove himself worthy of enugh extra sponsorship $$ the next year to take the full sized nationals on.
Hearing "I won the North Island Champs last year". is surely far more attractive to a potential sponsor than "I beat some guy you have never heard of that is a kickarse racer" (I don't mean to be rude GW!)

Quasi, While THE BIG SHOW idea has merit I think other rounds are important too.

If THE BIG SHOW was just one round but big enough it could perhaps allow racers to seek out enough extra sponsorship coin to be doing a whole series for the massive publicity payoff of a big enough event.

I think jelly wrestler make a very good point, Publicity is lacking to the average punter. Increasing it damatically from its currently woeful level need not be expensive or complicated.

Us being proactive (Like Scrivvy and Sidecar Bob and crew) is what will improve nationals.

Just ideas...

[JayRacer37]

No mate I suggest races that are in the latter part of the year say October/November on.

Yeah but even then the weather is temprimental. The nationals chaged a few years ago to all being in the new year rather than being split around Christmas and the weather has been better since then. October/November...its still hardly worth racing.


needs to be smaller with a bigger impact

Thing is, its too small already. Looking at all the talk on here, i'm very close to flagging this years nationals full stop, and taking off overseas any way that I can. I want to do it anyway, but if there is a way I can race here I want too. Making it into esentially a one event nationals would absolutly stop me bothering to race in NZ at all. There would be no point without a championship, why would I put myself in esentially $20-30k debt to race in one meeting that could all get wasted in one accident. I'm much more likely to pay $40-50k to have a proper championship...its a better investment of my money.

[Quasievil]

Yeah but even then the weather is temprimental. The nationals chaged a few years ago to all being in the new year rather than being split around Christmas and the weather has been better since then. October/November...its still hardly worth racing.

Tuffen up Au!! what are we a bunch of sun worshippers, I would like to think the NZ champion has skills capable of racing in a vareity of conditions, just like international racers do.
Kiyonari in Donington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Etb_kqxnI&feature=channel_page


Thing is, its too small already. Looking at all the talk on here, i'm very close to flagging this years nationals full stop, and taking off overseas any way that I can. I want to do it anyway, but if there is a way I can race here I want too. Making it into esentially a one event nationals would absolutly stop me bothering to race in NZ at all. There would be no point without a championship, why would I put myself in esentially $20-30k debt to race in one meeting that could all get wasted in one accident. I'm much more likely to pay $40-50k to have a proper championship...its a better investment of my money.

Yes it is to small already, but I suggested it wont be one event as I earlier posted, How many rounds are there currently 5?? so youre paying $10k a round now ???
Investment and Bike racing :mellow:??

[Shaun]

Tuffen up Au!! what are we a bunch of sun worshippers, I would like to think the NZ champion has skills capable of racing in a vareity of conditions, just like international racers do.
Kiyonari in Donington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Etb_kqxnI&feature=channel_page



Yes it is to small already, but I suggested it wont be one event as I earlier posted, How many rounds are there currently 5?? so youre paying $10k a round now ???
Investment and Bike racing :mellow:??


PS, shame Kiyanori does NOT have the balls to ride that like all the time


Carefull with your choice of words dude, ( RE $10K Per Round) REMEMBER there are many people reading this, and MAY NOT understand all that is being said.

That is what it would cost, LESS the re sale of the bike!

[koba]

Tuffen up Au!! what are we a bunch of sun worshippers, I would like to think the NZ champion has skills capable of racing in a vareity of conditions, just like international racers do.
Kiyonari in Donington
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Etb_kqxnI&feature=channel_page



Yes it is to small already, but I suggested it wont be one event as I earlier posted, How many rounds are there currently 5?? so youre paying $10k a round now ???
Investment and Bike racing :mellow:??

Not xactly wat you want to attract large numbers of spectators...

[Quasievil]

PS, shame Kiyanori does NOT have the balls to ride that like all the time


Carefull with your choice of words dude, ( RE $10K Per Round) REMEMBER there are many people reading this, and MAY NOT understand all that is being said.

That is what it would cost, LESS the re sale of the bike!

Yes, I actually dont know what it would cost a round just took that what was posted by Jay

[Kiwi Graham]

Isn't it all down to cash at the end of the day!
When I started racing I was able to get 'product' sponsorship but nobody (except my dear old mum) came up with cold hard cash. To get any cash meant you had to be top 5 and even then it barely covered the cost of the gas and entry fee.

Ask any small buisness how did you succeed and the answer would be advertising..............speculate to accumulate etc.

Where am I going with this?
Quasi has a good point, make the event/s a show, advertise it, mags, paper, bike shops, bill boards, radio, and yes TV..............."if we build it they will come!"

Who pays for all this?
If the idea is sold to many tradesman, exhibiters, media, spectators (pre ticket sales), caterers etc there should be money in the pot to get the ball rolling.

The key is to make a spectacle of the event, its a national series so promote it nationaly, aim it at familys, make it not only a bike event but attractive to the whole family, face painting fair rides, non bike related trivia and stalls etc.
Rob/Shaun could set up a suspension stand and provide hints and tips, Arai could set up a helmet grooming stand etc etc I've seen this at national events in Europe. Shaun will tell you what goes on, on the periphery of the IOM races its not all about bike racing.
Punters need things to do/entertain them between races and if they bring their partners along as well the $$$ should start to flow.

Decent prize money (sponsors) for more places will encourage more enteries.
Getting the media involved is the key, they have a massive captured audience, we need a figure head to promote our couse (Mike King is out of a job, just kidding) do you see what I mean. For it to grow and become popular it needs to appeal to a wider audience not just a bunch of race nuts, my Mrs and kids could be encouraged to come along if they had something to do in between those "fast loud things going round and round" as she puts it.

Just my 2c

[Quasievil]

Isn't it all down to cash at the end of the day!
When I started racing I was able to get 'product' sponsorship but nobody (except my dear old mum) came up with cold hard cash. To get any cash meant you had to be top 5 and even then it barely covered the cost of the gas and entry fee.

Ask any small buisness how did you succeed and the answer would be advertising..............speculate to accumulate etc.

Where am I going with this?
Quasi has a good point, make the event/s a show, advertise it, mags, paper, bike shops, bill boards, radio, and yes TV..............."if we build it they will come!"

Who pays for all this?
If the idea is sold to many tradesman, exhibiters, media, spectators (pre ticket sales), caterers etc there should be money in the pot to get the ball rolling.

The key is to make a spectacle of the event, its a national series so promote it nationaly, aim it at familys, make it not only a bike event but attractive to the whole family, face painting fair rides, non bike related trivia and stalls etc.
Rob/Shaun could set up a suspension stand and provide hints and tips, Arai could set up a helmet grooming stand etc etc I've seen this at national events in Europe. Shaun will tell you what goes on, on the periphery of the IOM races its not all about bike racing.
Punters need things to do/entertain them between races and if they bring their partners along as well the $$$ should start to flow.

Decent prize money (sponsors) for more places will encourage more enteries.
Getting the media involved is the key, they have a massive captured audience, we need a figure head to promote our couse (Mike King is out of a job, just kidding) do you see what I mean. For it to grow and become popular it needs to appeal to a wider audience not just a bunch of race nuts, my Mrs and kids could be encouraged to come along if they had something to do in between those "fast loud things going round and round" as she puts it.

Just my 2c

Yes to all of the above and more..............

[scrivy]

Yes to all of the above and more..............

and still a little boy waits........ :shifty:

[johnsv650]

so what does mnz do with the income,
its $5000 to mnz for each round, well for levels and ruapuna, someone said industry sponsorship at around $60000 well that $85000 where did that money go ?
why do clubs pay mnz $5000 to hold a national round ?
ruapuna round made a small profit and levels made a loss......
maybe andrew might get riders a better return and even some industry prize money.

[Marknz]

I'd like to see a national championship that went:

Wanganui
Nelson street races
Teretonga
Levels
Ruapuna
Greymouth street races
Paeroa
Manfeild
Taupo
Hampton Downs
Pukekohe

With Two races at least at each.

Now thats a championship!!!

AND I'd like to see NZ follow World Superbike/World Supersport/World Superstock rules. Give us cool bikes that we can take international!!!

But all of the above is ABSOLUTE dreaming. Forbid making a championship worth racing!!! ;) :D :jerry:

Great in the grand scheme of things, but that's more rounds than the AU National Championship... and they have more bikes, more riders, more good tracks, and more buckets for the support/sponsorship dollars to come from. Doesn't mean to say it can't be done here, but...

[JayRacer37]

Great in the grand scheme of things, but that's more rounds than the AU National Championship... and they have more bikes, more riders, more good tracks, and more buckets for the support/sponsorship dollars to come from. Doesn't mean to say it can't be done here, but...

Yes it is absolutly a pipe dream but still...why not? Within that you could have a National champion (all rounds) a Track champion (all racing track rounds) a streets champion (all street rounds) and then North and South Island cup championships of all of the above.

[JayRacer37]

Tuffen up Au!! what are we a bunch of sun worshippers, I would like to think the NZ champion has skills capable of racing in a vareity of conditions, just like international racers do.

Haha, if you raced then you wouldn't get a variety of conditions, you would get a whole lot of rain and a bit of cold...we CAN ride in the rain, but why should we subject ourselves to nothing but by not racing over summer! And...you would use a whole bunch more wets, and there goes any saving on buying the expensive one use only racing wets!!! ;)


Yes it is to small already, but I suggested it wont be one event as I earlier posted.

But you are saying it will be one event...if the club rounds count for points, you must do all of them, OR when you go to the big event you will be disadvantaged. OR, the one round counts for all the final results and then one mistake will cost all.

How about this as a refinement of your idea:

You do the first four/five/whatever rounds of the national championship, and then at the final round, at our premier track for NZ, nearest our biggest population base (yes I'm talking Hampton Downs) you have the last round of the nationals which counts for double or triple points to the championship, and you make that your BIG EVENT.


How many rounds are there currently 5?? so youre paying $10k a round now ???
Investment and Bike racing :mellow:??

Yeah, maybe I'm fortunate enough not to pay for everything but I spend aprox $50k to do a national season what with bike, tyres, travel, time off, repairs, parts, other consumable parts, teams time off, travel for them...god knows, you don't like to keep up but maybe more.
Its not 'investing' in motorbike racing, but i'm not (again, pipe dream maybe) racing in NZ to continue racing in NZ. I'm trying to build myself up to go overseas. And its less of an 'investment' to do one (important) round of racing here.

[cowpoos]

maybe.....I was thinking about it last night actually
retiring or Promoting?? ;)

[cowpoos]

We came up with the idea of holding a separate North and South cup within the nationals where your points at each island counted to a championship result. Sketchy is actually a good representitive of this - he couldn't do South island this year so finished 5th in F3. With a NI/SI cup his seasons results would be F3 5th, NI cup 1st, SI Cup not participated. This gives the club guys more of an incentive to show up at the national rounds for their island and try to get a result within that. It's also something that bridges the gap between localised club meets and the whole national series.

Jay



Yeah, drop the current format of the nationals round break it up into some rounds of the club events where they gain Points that will contribute and qualify them to go into the final also from this (as you suggest) gain your N.I and S.I Leading riders and throw them into one BIG SHOW for the final championship event so if I was a racer in the north island wanting to be the NZ champion my Nationals calendar would look like this

VMCC round 4 & 5 National Championship round
AMC Round 2 National Championship round
TRRS National Championship round
THE BIG SHOW

As well as any other racing I wanted to do.

that work ?


Well valid Ideas guys...but the nth sth cup thing will dumb the sport down...will cost more to get tv/media coverage that racers/sponsders are after...second...talent isn't spread evenly between the Island..so your proposals will lack balance and fairness...[eg: a rider that could come second in the nth Island champs, could be be capable of only coming 10th down south]
International riders won't be interested...and if they get special privilages to take a spot in a grand final...the guys that missed out by one or two points will cry foul...and rightly so too!!

Ps: Some of your Ideas are bloody brillent Quasi...keep sifting!!

[JayRacer37]

Well valid Ideas guys...but the nth sth cup thing will dumb the sport down...will cost more to get tv/media coverage that racers/sponsders are after...second...talent isn't spread evenly between the Island..so your proposals will lack balance and fairness...[eg: a rider that could come second in the nth Island champs, could be be capable of only coming 10th down south]
International riders won't be interested...and if they get special privilages to take a spot in a grand final...the guys that missed out by one or two points will cry foul...and rightly so too!!

Ps: Some of your Ideas are bloody brillent Quasi...keep sifting!!

Nah you have missed the whole gist Poo's. There is no 'grand final'. The nationals will run as normal, but taken from the points of the nationals will be a north island and a south island championship. You could win the whole series, and both north and south cups as a north islander.

[Quasievil]

Well this is evolving isnt it.

What I mean is MNZ or whoever, nominates certain club level races as National rounds, for example some VMCC events, some AMC events and the TRRS perhaps, NOT ALL ROUNDS just a few say maybe 4-5 this would offer Increased level of participation of Club events and offer lower costs for racers

This could be done in the NI and the SI offering a leading bunch of qualifiers to compete in the THE BIG SHOW

Who cares if a NI wins the SI championship or visa versa, its okay for a Ozzy to win the NZ Championship aint it

THEN

Have a big Final THE BIG SHOW

This would determine the NZ National Champion

Im thinking about 5 Actual meetings in total with one big one at the end.

working for yas ??

[Drew]

retiring or Promoting?? ;)

Perhaps he was thinking about putting his own rear wheel in from now on.:2guns:

The revised format you guys (by that I mean Bret and Jay), is still gonna be lacking MONEY.
Dont get me wrong, I like the ideas a lot, but if any of this is gonna happen, it begins with the almighty dollar.

Not in the racers pocket, we'll most of us still be broke to do what we love if this all goes perfectly, and aint nothing perfect in this world. But instead in the events, the series, and the promotors pocket.

WHERE does it come from to get the ball rolling?

[Quasievil]

WHERE does it come from to get the ball rolling?

Your pocket bro, Unless you get yourself some sponsors like anyone else eh?
Sponsors will sponsor if there is a decent amount in it for them, hence the BIG SHOW idea, sponsors like promotion opportunities so give them one

[JayRacer37]

Have a big Final THE BIG SHOW

This would determine the NZ National Champion

Im thinking about 5 Actual meetings in total with one big one at the end.

working for yas ??

I hope its evolving :)

Problem I have with that is still ONE round to decide it all. If your only qualifying in the club rounds that means all points for the championship come out of the BIG EVENT. This means one mistake, or someone elses mistake knocking you down, ruins your 'nationals'.

[AndrewStroud]

I hope its evolving :)

Problem I have with that is still ONE round to decide it all. If your only qualifying in the club rounds that means all points for the championship come out of the BIG EVENT. This means one mistake, or someone elses mistake knocking you down, ruins your 'nationals'.

Lots of good thoughts and yea I can see some realistic potential evolving.
In aiming to see more riders, spectators, media and sponsors, do we look at creating something that attracts them, or do we look at going where they already are.? I see some merit in utilising a couple of club rounds to also be National events. Or better put, if the club would use a National round to also hold their first or last round of their of the club champs, then lots of club races would be more likely to race in that particular National event.
Car meetings already have the TV and spectators. I couldn't see them wanting to fit in more than one M/c class though. Or if 600's are happy to race with Superbikes then we ask Motorsport NZ if they could look to include us in two of their NZV8 meetings - 600 & S/B's in the same race.
There's two National high profile rounds done. Other classes ie F3, 125's, Sidecars, 150's could join two more club rounds as their National rounds.
- Another high profile round could be held at the Burt Munro. (Some riders would also choose to do the Wyndam Street races.)
- The NZGP meeting with double points for the GP races. (and double points for S.I. Cup competitors)
- The NZ TT (with double points) as THE BIG EVENT... bring in the circus.

[Shaun P]

yeah now thats starting to make sense :niceone:

[Tony.OK]

How about using the 1st Tri Series as a Nat event at Manfeild? That seemed to go well last year with most of the Top boys using as a build up anyway. The added bonus is that it is also linked with Wanganui's boxing day races, and a pre prepared organising team with Leighton & co.

[The Chow]

Hi , this thread is great and has many ideas. Just goes to show that things can be worked through , keep it up and the future looks more promising. By the way guys kiwiracer.co.nz will be there what ever you decide and will provide updates (like we have had over the last few years) and FREE OF CHARGE to help out.

Cheers
Ian

[Toot Toot]

Lots of good thoughts and yea I can see some realistic potential evolving.
etc etc etc...
Some good ideas coming out Andrew. I've never seen you talk so much in my life! Awesome, keep it coming.:eek:

[JayRacer37]

Or better put, if the club would use a National round to also hold their first or last round of their of the club champs, then lots of club races would be more likely to race in that particular National event.
Car meetings already have the TV and spectators. I couldn't see them wanting to fit in more than one M/c class though. Or if 600's are happy to race with Superbikes then we ask Motorsport NZ if they could look to include us in two of their NZV8 meetings - 600 & S/B's in the same race.
There's two National high profile rounds done. Other classes ie F3, 125's, Sidecars, 150's could join two more club rounds as their National rounds.
- Another high profile round could be held at the Burt Munro. (Some riders would also choose to do the Wyndam Street races.)
- The NZGP meeting with double points for the GP races. (and double points for S.I. Cup competitors)
- The NZ TT (with double points) as THE BIG EVENT... bring in the circus.

That all sounds very good Andrew. I don't think 600's and Superbikes off the same grid would be a problem. Perhaps a split grid and 30 sec intervals to stop the faster 600s and midpack Superbikes tripping over each other? Clubs doubling the NATIONAL meeting as their first club round of the new year sounds like a good idea. I still don't like CLUB championship rounds being National meetings, it would cost more as the clubs are unlikely to talk to each other well so the rounds would be broken up more - IE 4-5 weeks down south.

[Shaun]

Keep at it crew, some very healthy idea.s here

[AndrewStroud]

How about using the 1st Tri Series as a Nat event at Manfeild? That seemed to go well last year with most of the Top boys using as a build up anyway. The added bonus is that it is also linked with Wanganui's boxing day races, and a pre prepared organising team with Leighton & co.

That could also work well, as could the Taupo Road Race Spectacular.

Consider the following;
-Aus Championship finishes 15th November 09 (started 1st March 09)
-below is last season's V8 calendar (couldn't find dates for next season);

V8s Championship
Round Date Venue
1 3-5 Oct 2008 Taupo
2 7-9 Nov 2008 Pukekohe
3 28-30 Nov 2008 Powerbuilt at Ruapuna
4 9-11 Jan 2009 Timaru
5 16-18 Jan 2009 Teretonga
6 27 Feb-1 Mar 2009 Manfeild
7 13-15 Mar 2009 Pukekohe
17-19 Apr 2009 Hamilton 400 V8 Supercars
A1GP 23rd Jan 2009

Ruapuna V8 event is around the same time as the Burt Munro.
These two could be the first two rounds. If the Canterbury M/C club could arrange for their last round of the club champs to be early-mid Dec at Timaru or Chch then that could also be an option.
The series is promoted in (at least) Australia. (with our rules the same as theirs). If there's enough interest then a container could be at Calder Park (VIC) 15th Nov, loaded and delivered to Teretonga end of Nov. Could even consider another container sent from Auckland. Stopping in Wellington, Chch?? so people could fly in and fly out).
Container (or Truck) then taken to Chch or Timaru. Then up to Manfeild for Tri-Series / National 20th Dec... Reloaded & delivered to Wanganui 26th, Taupo 27th Dec... There could be one or two more National events in Jan / early feb.
Ask about having combined 600/ SB race at A1GP and finish with the TT (THE BIG EVENT) at Hampton Downs. The Hampton Downs event could be in conjunction with either, NZV8's, or Rd 1 Auckland Club Champs, or even 600/SB races held during the Classic Racing Festival. Whether the Classic guys would have us is another thing, but they have already booked the track and it has become a very popular meeting. It'd be great for their spectators too, seeing some seriously fast racing in the mist of ...some not so fast racing...
(I did say 'some' as it was pretty exciting seeing Schwantz and Dave Cole go at it. )

....container then sent back to Aus for their Rd 1. Loaded with Aussies gear and any Kiwi's that want to race over there.

It would take some organising and a 'work together' attitude.

[Shaun Harris]

Great work again Andrew! Re bikes with the V8's in New Zealand

I think if you were to talk with Johny Hepburn, you would find out that bikes will NEVER be with the V8's again mate, the first time was such a pain for them to organise, as NO MNZ member was there to co-ordinate it at all.

It was some of the best racing in New Zealand I have ever been involved in.

V8's, they also so many classes wanting to get on TV now, that there just is NO TIME in the format to fit any bike race sin

But great thoughts any way

[AndrewStroud]

That all sounds very good Andrew. I don't think 600's and Superbikes off the same grid would be a problem. Perhaps a split grid and 30 sec intervals to stop the faster 600s and midpack Superbikes tripping over each other? Clubs doubling the NATIONAL meeting as their first club round of the new year sounds like a good idea. I still don't like CLUB championship rounds being National meetings, it would cost more as the clubs are unlikely to talk to each other well so the rounds would be broken up more - IE 4-5 weeks down south.

Howdy Jay, lots of good ideas there mate.
I can't see a problem with 600's & S/B's off the same grid either (except for Gareth). I was thinking of a 10 -20m gap back to 600 group but start off the same light to keep it simple and clean for the spectators.
I also, don't see it as ideal to double up a National / club event. Though if it was to double the size of the meeting then we should still keep it under consideration. Also the particular club could effectively have two meetings for the operating costs of one.

[AndrewStroud]

Great work again Andrew! Re bikes with the V8's in New Zealand

I think if you were to talk with Johny Hepburn, you would find out that bikes will NEVER be with the V8's again mate, the first time was such a pain for them to organise, as NO MNZ member was there to co-ordinate it at all.

It was some of the best racing in New Zealand I have ever been involved in.

V8's, they also so many classes wanting to get on TV now, that there just is NO TIME in the format to fit any bike race sin

But great thoughts any way

Yea, I've heard similar comments. I suppose we won't know till we ask.

[JayRacer37]

Howdy Jay, lots of good ideas there mate.
I can't see a problem with 600's & S/B's off the same grid either (except for Gareth). I was thinking of a 10 -20m gap back to 600 group but start off the same light to keep it simple and clean for the spectators.
I also, don't see it as ideal to double up a National / club event. Though if it was to double the size of the meeting then we should still keep it under consideration. Also the particular club could effectively have two meetings for the operating costs of one.

Yeah, a gap would do the same job, or all but. Just Gareth? So you arn't going to do both again...? :) If the clubs could be convinced to make the national event they're hosting count as points towards their club championships...it could work really well. You certainly hope that would be incentive for the club riders to come.

[Shaun]

Yea, I've heard similar comments. I suppose we won't know till we ask.


So True, so what time today will you be making the phone to call, to find out if they could be interested in this idea then?

[scrivy]

It'd be great for their spectators too, seeing some seriously fast racing in the mist of ...some not so fast racing...


Mate, did you not see that lightning fast old yellow BMW sidecar at the Puke classic fest????? :bleh:

[AndrewStroud]

Yeah, a gap would do the same job, or all but. Just Gareth? So you arn't going to do both again...? :) If the clubs could be convinced to make the national event they're hosting count as points towards their club championships...it could work really well. You certainly hope that would be incentive for the club riders to come.

I agree. If clubs say yes to it do you think they'd get many complaints from their club champ racers? If it's getting in the way they are worried about, don't mind me, I'll be happy to find a way around. If it's getting lapped then we could go back to having 3 shorter races.

[AndrewStroud]

Mate, did you not see that lightning fast old yellow BMW sidecar at the Puke classic fest????? :bleh:

oh, that's right, sorry I forgot to mention

[AndrewStroud]

So True, so what time today will you be making the phone to call, to find out if they could be interested in this idea then?

ok, ..picking up twins from Kindy now. will let you know

[Drew]

There are some great ideas here, are there any people motivated to do anything about them?

Shaun; you are a busy man I know, but ups or downs, you have consistantly said you were all about the sport.

Quasi; similarly busy, but full of ideas, then re-working them when possible faults are highlighted.

Andrew; obvious spokesperson for the riders.

Will something happen?

By no means would I blame any of you for not bothering, or anyone else for that matter, but should we expect anything from this discussion, or settle into the status quoe?

I'm sure everyone can agree, I'm too much of a hot head to have anything to do with buerocrats(sp), but ask me to do something, and I'll do whatever I can to that end.

[mikeey01]

Although things are in a complete shambles and a lot of racers, helpers are disillusioned at present I am impressed with the ideas you guys are coming up with, honestly some really good shit!

My fear is you buggers won't share the love (races) around the country and hog all the goods ones up in the north island!

I still reckon they should pay u buggers more too!

[Shaun]

There are some great ideas here, are there any people motivated to do anything about them?

Shaun; you are a busy man I know, but ups or downs, you have consistantly said you were all about the sport.


By no means would I blame any of you for not bothering, or anyone else for that matter, but should we expect anything from this discussion, or settle into the status quoe?...

Yes and NO mate. I am into the sport big time, love it, and it has loved me.

I have put a reasnoable effort in, in the past to try and help the sport along, but certain people did not turn up for the party? POLITICS and hot heads you mention ( WERE do I fit in that arena) I was/are still one, BUT now realise there is a time and place for every thing!:bleh:

SO YES, I AM PREPARED TO SUPPORT A TEAM NETWORK ENVIROMENT

Lets sit back and await the out come of the MNZ meeting perhaps, before WE all go rushing around to much, a LOT can and MAY change after that date, RE Road Racing as we know it today?

[scrivy]

I am into the sport big time, love it, and it has loved me.


Shit Shaun, get a room mate....... :bleh:

[Drew]

Lets sit back and await the out come of the MNZ meeting perhaps, before WE all go rushing around to much, a LOT can and MAY change after that date, RE Road Racing as we know it today?

I'll have to take your word for it that things might change, but I submit this for thought.

If us racers, and supporters such as yourself are gonna just sit back, we dont get to bitch about what happens, same as we shouldn't be doing now.

[scrivy]

If us racers, and supporters such as yourself are gonna just sit back, we dont get to bitch about what happens, same as we shouldn't be doing now.

I agree.

We should all be doing something which we are not at present. We shouldn't be sitting on our laurels, we should stand up to the task at hand!
If we all go in the same direction, who knows, we may actually end up in the same place.............
We should all do something that we are not doing now, and do things for tomorrow that hadn't even happened yesterday. Why we may even enjoy it!!
I'd like to do things I haven't even thought about yet....... or maybe thought about, but not done......

er....... ok, I'm confused........ moving on........ as you were....... :eek:

[wharfy]

I agree.

We should all be doing something which we are not at present. We shouldn't be sitting on our laurels, we should stand up to the task at hand!
We should all do something that we are not doing now, and do things for tomorrow that hadn't even happened yesterday. Why we may even enjoy it!!
I'd like to do things I haven't thought about yet....... or maybe thought about, but not done......

er....... ok, I'm confused........ moving on........ as you were....... :eek:

Yeah I agree, I've got ideas I haven't even thought of yet ....

[JayRacer37]

I agree. If clubs say yes to it do you think they'd get many complaints from their club champ racers? If it's getting in the way they are worried about, don't mind me, I'll be happy to find a way around. If it's getting lapped then we could go back to having 3 shorter races.

I agree with you, we would find a way round. Yeah, as I've said before, I would be keen on 3 shorter races, it makes it more fair at the end of the championship as more points are up for grabs.

[AndrewStroud]

So True, so what time today will you be making the phone to call, to find out if they could be interested in this idea then?

made the call. Very positive too. I wouldn't be surprised if we could make something work.

[JayRacer37]

made the call. Very positive too. I wouldn't be surprised if we could make something work.

Well done! :)

[Quasievil]

Sheesh go to the track for one day and come back and look what ya done............made some Phone calls SWEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTT

In reference to an earlier post Im keen willing and hopefully able to contribute to any ideas with my time and efforts for any agreed goal (however there is plenty of people more qualified) but for whats its worth Im not all talk lol

[jellywrestler]

Lots of good thoughts and yea I can see some realistic potential evolving.
Or if 600's are happy to race with Superbikes then we ask Motorsport NZ if they could look to include us in two of their NZV8 meetings - 600 & S/B's in the same race.
- The NZGP meeting with double points for the GP races. (and double points for S.I. Cup competitors)
- The NZ TT (with double points) as THE BIG EVENT... bring in the circus.

Great idea about the double points for the T.T. & G.P., that'll add to their status they deserve and used to get when they were a standalone event before getting swallowed up in the nationals.
As for the car races its an interesting move but what about the debris on the track these events produce?
A few years ago bikes fronted up at pukekohe for a car bike truck meeting and in the dry there was a lot of rubber off line and sometimes on it too as the bike lines were different and when the rain came down the fuel residue, that is a by product of the big car races, became super slippery way more so than at any bike event...

[jellywrestler]

I'd like to do things I haven't thought about yet....... or maybe thought about, but not done......

er....... ok, I'm confused........ moving on........ as you were....... :eek:

time to take your pills again it sounds!!!

[Shaun]

made the call. Very positive too. I wouldn't be surprised if we could make something work.




Positive action, thanks mate. A lot of people are out there to jump on board and help.

Many things have been said in this thread that Could/Would work to change/improve things, it just simply NEEDS that Change!

For every reaction is an action, enjoy mate, YOU may have started your future, thanks for coming to play:stupid:

[AndrewStroud]

Great idea about the double points for the T.T. & G.P., that'll add to their status they deserve and used to get when they were a standalone event before getting swallowed up in the nationals.
As for the car races its an interesting move but what about the debris on the track these events produce?
A few years ago bikes fronted up at pukekohe for a car bike truck meeting and in the dry there was a lot of rubber off line and sometimes on it too as the bike lines were different and when the rain came down the fuel residue, that is a by product of the big car races, became super slippery way more so than at any bike event...

From the initial discussion there could be 3 car meetings we could potentially join.
- Pukekohe 7th Nov NZV8's.
- Ruapuna 29th Nov NZV8's
- Taupo 7th Feb Toyota International series, GT1.??.....

I hear there is to be live TV this coming season for Sunday's racing at NZV8 meetings. Bike's may need to pay a couple of grand or so each meeting to be included in the TV but it would be a lot less than what it costs to have a TV crew turn up solely for bikes.

Of the above 3 meetings I'd aim towards the Ruapuna and Taupo rounds.
I'd be reluctant to look at Puke as it could be pretty unforgiving if there was any debris / oil on the track as you mentioned.
Having said that I can't recall having any problems at all during the car /bike meetings that I've raced at in the past. I didn't do the one at Puke that you mentioned. Any rubber that came off tyes ended up on the outside of the track and well off line for bikes.
Pity though it looks like the Ruapuna date is the same weekend as the Burt Munro. Would have been ideal if they were a week apart.

What else??????????

[AndrewStroud]

Positive action, thanks mate. A lot of people are out there to jump on board and help.

Many things have been said in this thread that Could/Would work to change/improve things, it just simply NEEDS that Change!

For every reaction is an action, enjoy mate, YOU may have started your future, thanks for coming to play:stupid:

You're welcome Shaun, It would be great if together we can come up with a plan that really stacks for the future so it can be put forward to the people who are making the discisions.
One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

[cowpoos]

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

[Tony.OK]

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

Poos are you talking the 600 or 1000 class here?

I've already got the TTX and 25mm Ohlins that'll go straight into a newer bike (open prod SBK), that'd mean I'd have to go backwards if I was to buy a new stock engined bike.
The proposed rule for Open Prod SBK (privateer cup) allows for full susp at the moment, its more about saving $$ on engine work, susp doesn't even come close to the amounts that could be spent on engine internals.

[GSVR]

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

Why not just let Robert work out the suspension specification for the privateer classes. After all he is the most experienced guy in the country concerning these matters!

[Robert Taylor]

Can I suggest a control rear shock and fork valving for the privateer classes to...eg: ractech gold valves for the forks...and non ttx36 ohlins shocks or Whitepower equivilent,etc [PR46X ?? robert?]...should half the price of suspension. while still making a massive improvement over stock...and probally not far behind full cartridges and TTX shock..

TTX has now almost completely replaced the 46PRXLS range for sportbikes, its current and future and in real terms the price is much the same.
Respecing oem with pistons works only to a point. The oem ZX6 07 cartridge was a swaged together sealed for life unit and would have cost a sizable sum to upspec, I believe this insidious trend will continue in many future bikes. Once the pr hype subsides re the BPF forks people will be attuned to the shortcomings that will rise to the surface ( and always do with every production fork as there are always cost control issues in manufacturing ) We are removing a set of BPF pistons soon and fitting cartridges very soon.

[Robert Taylor]

Why not just let Robert work out the suspension specification for the privateer classes. After all he is the most experienced guy in the country concerning these matters!

In all fairness all the main suspension suppliers ( really only Rays excellent WP stuff and Ohlins are fully active and with full backup ) should get a bite of the cherry and be allowed to operate in a competitive environment. If it transpires that stock / oem units are only allowed to be run I still steadfastly maintain that revalving should be allowed ( respringing is not always a cure all ) and that removes a policing problem.

Having said that though if a bulk order was forwarded for rear TTX ( for example ) we could organise with Ohlins some substanial cost cutting measures such as substituting the hydraulic preloaders with normal lockrings, although that may create an access for adjustment issue on models such as CBR600. But there are ways and means and we can investigate that.

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

100% support to reduce disposal costs of used rubber. Should reduce racing costs and make stepping up to superbike cat. look more attractive and make the whole racing thing (expense) easier for many.

[JayRacer37]

You're welcome Shaun, It would be great if together we can come up with a plan that really stacks for the future so it can be put forward to the people who are making the discisions.
One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

I'd go with running a treaded D.O.T Tyre...but you arn't suggesting everyone should be made to use the same brand right...?

[Drew]

I'd go with running a treaded D.O.T Tyre...but you arn't suggesting everyone should be made to use the same brand right...?

Why not mate?

Makes sense to me. I'd hope they were Perelli, but if not I'm sure my sponsors would understand that the class wouldn't allow their tyres.

[JayRacer37]

Why not mate?

Makes sense to me. I'd hope they were Perelli, but if not I'm sure my sponsors would understand that the class wouldn't allow their tyres.

Why? You want to make the racing money efficient, why make everyone buy the same tyre, probably loosing their deal with tyres? Didn't work too great many moons ago when the control tyre for 150's were Dunlops...you got charged the earth for them.

Also, its like taking 600 Supersport and saying that Kawasaki ZX-6R's arn't allowed...

[AndrewStroud]

I'd go with running a treaded D.O.T Tyre...but you arn't suggesting everyone should be made to use the same brand right...?

Yep. Same as Moto GP, WSB, AMA, BSB, Aus Superstock....
You and I and maybe Brian could be the biggest losers in the deal if it went ahead. But still, looking at the bigger picture, it would be a lot better for everyone else and should encourage a lot more riders to compete and help give racing a healthy future.
All of the tyre importers that bring in good quality race tyres have the opportunity to make a bid and outline what they are prepared to offer.

They'd need to guarantee supply and equal spec tyres for all competitors.
Provide a price that riders can buy them for.
Also be able to provide a durable compound that will hold up well allowing for a maximium of two sets per weekend.
They could be prepared to Sponsor the series as part of the deal and maybe provide something like ???? 2k in prize money per round for the class they supply. Nothing stopping 600's and S/B from having different brand control tyres. I'd expect that Dunlop, Bridgestone, Pirelli, Continental, Michelin all could have suitable tyres and maybe in a position to make an offer. They'd need to prove from results in NZ or overseas that their tyres are up to it. eg Dunlop and Pirelli in particular have proved themselves in S/B to perform on NZ tracks.
Harder compound Treaded D.O.T. tyres would be the way to go.
If a deal was achieved just for the Nationals then you could still run any tyre brand you like outside the Nationals.
Why shouldn't it be put up for tender? You never know what may be offered.

[Marknz]

You're welcome Shaun, It would be great if together we can come up with a plan that really stacks for the future so it can be put forward to the people who are making the discisions.
One important issue i see that would be good to have some more feed back on is;

Running a Control treaded tyre It really makes sense to me.
- Riders would most likely get a good deal buying them.
- use less tyres
- Sell them on to street riders
- Know it's a level playing field and you're on the same rubber as everyone else

That would work for me. But I understand the trepidation from others who might already have tyre deals, or already have done a great deal of development for one of the producers.

We'd also want to have a rock solid agreement from the supplier that they would be discounted for racers, even if we had to show a MNZ license to get them.