Procrastination and exaggeration?

[vifferman]

I found this article in The Harold (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10572953) rather disturbing. I'm not a 'cop basher' - that's not what this is about, but I thought of some of the KBers who have recently been charged for things they didn't do, or were charged for offences seemingly more serious than warranted by their actions.

The two things that stood out were:
"Police "almost routinely ignored" requests for disclosure."
and:
"Police were also "overcharging" defendants, who had to make repeated appearances for charges to be agreed to, using means such as plea-bargaining."

Imagine it: you inadvertantly pop a wheelie, and are charged with dangerous driving, even though there's no danger involved. It's the cop's word/opinion against yours, so you know you're screwed, and end up agreeing to a charge of careless use, rather than lose your licence and incur a larger fine.

There's been a few posts on here from people heading off to court, and trying to get information about the police evidence before hand, in order to present a decent case in defence of a charge. I'd imagine it'd be pretty bloody frustrating if you were unsure what evidence there was against you, and couldn't gain access to it.

[MSTRS]

.....
There's been a few posts on here from people heading off to court, and trying to get information about the police evidence before hand, in order to present a decent case in defence of a charge. I'd imagine it'd be pretty bloody frustrating if you were unsure what evidence there was against you, and couldn't gain access to it.

Surely this could work in the defendant's favour? Just tell the judge/JP that you have been prevented from viewing the 'facts' of the case against you. The judge/JP then should instruct the police to 'hand it over' and schedule another hearing, or dismiss the case.

[caseye]

You'd like to think so, but somehow i don't think it works that way.Pity is if they are doing what has been stated then thyey're resorting to dirty low underhanded tactics that I thought were only practiced by dirty rotten solicitors and QC's, on behalf of their guilty clients.

[tigertim20]

get a half decent lawyer. If they have overcharge you, and then refused, or made it dufficult to gain access to the info, a decent lawyer would get the whole thing biffed out on a technicality. Problem s finding a helf decent lawyer...
Cops often try and put you on bail, with conditions, stupid fuckin conditions like a curfew of 9am-9pm, even if whatevere allegedly happened, happened in the middle of the day, then keep asking for adjournments. They do it to fuck you off and cause so much hassle to your everyday life that its easier to admit to something you didnt do.
I know personally of a case similar to this where the guy got an awesome lawyer he knew through family, this particular lawyer had a grudge against the cop in the case, so enjoyed the opportunity to screw him over. Long story short, smart lawyer twisted the circumstances and cops evidence into a police admission of obtaining a "false confession" got the charge dropped, and got his (completely innocent, and yes I know for a fact he was, cos I was there at the time) client a substantial monetary apology.
Aint gonna go down like that often though.

[Gremlin]

I think JP's would be harder to go against in that situation, they often rubber stamp what the cop says.

The judge I have been before was great, he bollocked anyone he liked, lawyers, cops, public etc. Cops were reprimanded for not doing their work properly several times, but one lawyer had made a very half arsed attempt to get the information, and the judge plainly said, I am happy to reprimand the police when they get it wrong, but you have barely tried to gain the information... Very fair I thought...

(well... as positive as you can get when you're there for being naughty)

[Laxi]

I had a judge openly laugh at police when they tried to get me on a bogus dangerous driving charge, aparently I was doing 160 on sh57 overtaking on blind corners e.t.c (all in an 1100 escort, tui ad anyone) the law abiding driver who was following me "was doing 110 following me" yet was right on my tail 40+ ks later, when the police admited to the judge that the only estimate on my speed came from the other driver, he literaly laughed and dismissed the charge

[peasea]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; cops lie. They lie to our faces, they lie behind your back, they lie on paper, they lie in court. I would guess that failure/refusal to disclose is because you will see their bullshit in wrtitten form.

Many people turn up to court with the best of intentions to be honest and get hammered with a pile of b/s so it sours them. Trust and respect go out the window and should there be any future contact with the police the last thing they're going to get from such people is factual information.

They've done it to themselves, people don't trust them or respect them any more and they get all fucking uppity and self-righteous when you point it out. Heaven help you if you question their authority or their integrity, even though you have every right to do so.

I won't ride with one, I won't drink with one and I certainly won't have one in my house.....without a warrant anyway.

[p.dath]

I don't really have a trust issue in the Police lieing persay; but I do share your sentiments about the justice system in general.

It just doesn't work. I have no faith in criminals getting caught and getting actual jail time, or of innocent people and victims being given a fair deal.

My last incident with the justice department was when I helped someone out who was having a crime committed against them. I have been subpeoned for 9 days over three seperate times so far, each time having to take unpaid leave from work, and still have not actually given any evidence in court as a witness.
Each time the guilty party (and they are guilty) gets their high paid QC to somehow stop or slow things down.
I been told I will be subpeoned for another 3 days in June. You can imagine how I am lookng forward to another 3 days of leave from work.

What do you think will happen next time I see someone in trouble needing help? More than likely, I'll walk away. It's just not worth the grief.

[caseye]

There lies the problem, so many have already experienced your situation and like you have voiced the same concersn and said the same of what will! happen next time.
While our Police force do generally do the very best they can with what they have, they are forever being hamstrung by the Justice System.This is a completely seperate identity from the Police Force who couldn't frankly organise a decent piss up in a brewery!
Reality is I would think very hard about ever going to the aid of another, too many things to think about, my home, my kids, etc etc, they win because our Justice system keeps putting the barsataRDS rigth back out there with US!

[James Deuce]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_se