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  • Greymouth Street Races - Labour Weekend 2013



    Entry form to download if required.

    Cheers
    Muzza
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Greymouth Street Races - Labour Weekend 2013 started by Muzzab View original post
    Comments 79 Comments
    1. Grumph's Avatar
      Grumph -
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Why would you contact somebody who has NO jurisdiction over the sport to get a clarification he's not qualified to answer,His only reply SHOULD be,Contact the relevant commissioner,Although in this case,If you bothered to actually read the rules,Instead of just parading them on KB,You'd already know that as Drew has pointed out
      Billy, with all due respect, that ain't very helpful. You've already gone on record here as saying that street race permits are no longer your responsibility so who is the relevant commissioner to ask ?
      I was told for example, that permits were going to be scrutinised by a committee of street circuit builders, well there are four in the SI currently but i hear the SI is not represented on that committee....who are they please ?
      There's a thread/section on here specifically for the commissioners edicts etc...what about posting a clarification of section 22 as it applies to various levels of roadracing...please.

      I've done the correct thing and asked for a clarification from the organising club as i would have expected something in the supp regs...given this amount of duckshoving, i hope they can find someone who will give answers.
    1. Billy's Avatar
      Billy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
      Billy, with all due respect, that ain't very helpful. You've already gone on record here as saying that street race permits are no longer your responsibility so who is the relevant commissioner to ask ?
      I was told for example, that permits were going to be scrutinised by a committee of street circuit builders, well there are four in the SI currently but i hear the SI is not represented on that committee....who are they please ?
      There's a thread/section on here specifically for the commissioners edicts etc...what about posting a clarification of section 22 as it applies to various levels of roadracing...please.

      I've done the correct thing and asked for a clarification from the organising club as i would have expected something in the supp regs...given this amount of duckshoving, i hope they can find someone who will give answers.
      Not quite correct,

      I still sign off on the permit applications,Supp regs and entry forms,The street circuit committee go through the track plan etc to assure it is up to the job,I have received and replied to a request from the organising club for a clarification,Pretty simple really though,The rule is clear enough and the only confusion is the placement in 22-8,Funnily enough that is where it has always been and the only thing of any consequence that has changed is the 3 entries in the rulebook in the previous 12 months,Simply put you need a Senior national licence to compete at a street circuit or the new upgrade for your club licence,Available from the office.

      In the first instance all enquiries should be through the office or the relevant commissioner,Not the board,They run the organisation,Not the individual disciplines,You will need to contact the general manager at the office re the street circuit committee as I have no idea who's involved outside of Jim Tuckerman
    1. wayne's Avatar
      wayne -
      is it correct club licence $100
      championship licence $200
      to race on street you need championship licence ?
    1. Kevin G's Avatar
      Kevin G -
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Why would you contact somebody who has NO jurisdiction over the sport to get a clarification he's not qualified to answer,His only reply SHOULD be,Contact the relevant commissioner,Although in this case,If you bothered to actually read the rules,Instead of just parading them on KB,You'd already know that as Drew has pointed out
      I love you to Billy....Just trying to help out a friend with the correct information as so many people do not understand the new rules and no clarification has been forthcoming from the Road Race Commission.
    1. Muzzab's Avatar
      Muzzab -
      Thanks Billy, I hope we are all on the same page now.

      Hopefully, this is how it is for our event.

      Rule 22.6 applies ( new - red light if wet)

      Rule 22.8 in general does not apply (no sharkfin, etc required), except for rule 22.8.15 (the licencing part) that does apply, it is mentioned on our entry form. (as mentioned by Billy, the problem is where the reference to Street Race licencing sits in the rules)

      You need a Senior Championship Licence for Street Racing, You need to have competed in at least three road racing events prior to the event you are entering.

      If you have any queries with your licence in regard to the Greymouth Street Race PM me on here and i will get an answer for you.

      Thanks
      Murray
      Treasurer
      GMSR
    1. Billy's Avatar
      Billy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G View Post
      I love you to Billy....Just trying to help out a friend with the correct information as so many people do not understand the new rules and no clarification has been forthcoming from the Road Race Commission.
      Wasn't really about you "Florence",More about getting these folks to talk to the right people,I mean you don't go to the butchers to buy your vegetables....do you???? LOL

      Oh and the reason there was no clarification from the commission was cause nobody asked me,Don't really see why anybody would need one anyway,I didnt change the rule in its entirety,I just added the section about the previous 12 months
    1. Billy's Avatar
      Billy -
      Quote Originally Posted by wayne View Post
      is it correct club licence $100
      championship licence $200
      to race on street you need championship licence ?
      Yip,

      Unless you get the upgrade mentioned above,Still if you were a licence holder who had read the rulebook or visited the website,You'd know that.
    1. Grumph's Avatar
      Grumph -
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Yip,

      Unless you get the upgrade mentioned above,Still if you were a licence holder who had read the rulebook or visited the website,You'd know that.
      As a non licence holder who had indeed visited the website and read the rulebook (portions of which i actually wrote...) i did indeed think i knew what was wanted...

      But then to attend a meeting declared wet and be told that lights were only required for nationals.....and be told by a person in authority that if you required a senior licence for an event, then the relevant portions of 22.8 applied for that event....

      Jeeze, Billy, if there are changes like this made in the future, please get a clarification out to the clubs BEFORE racing starts under the changed rules...

      Thanks Muzza for your answer - nice to not be having arguments at scrutineering. See you at BoB.
    1. Billy's Avatar
      Billy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Grumph View Post
      As a non licence holder who had indeed visited the website and read the rulebook (portions of which i actually wrote...) i did indeed think i knew what was wanted...

      But then to attend a meeting declared wet and be told that lights were only required for nationals.....and be told by a person in authority that if you required a senior licence for an event, then the relevant portions of 22.8 applied for that event....

      Jeeze, Billy, if there are changes like this made in the future, please get a clarification out to the clubs BEFORE racing starts under the changed rules...

      Thanks Muzza for your answer - nice to not be having arguments at scrutineering. See you at BoB.
      Clarifications for what?????
      Looks pretty simple to follow too me,Whoever told anybody the rearward facing lights were for Nationals only,Should have their warrant removed pronto,If they can't read and understand the rulebook,How did they get a warrant in the first place,Same goes for the competitors,The due process for rule changes was followed,Trouble is as usual,The competitors can't be bothered keeping up to date and expect it to be MNZs fault automatically in the same way they don't have any input into the rule changes but think they can just get stuff changed after the fact.
    1. kiwi cowboy's Avatar
      kiwi cowboy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Wasn't really about you "Florence",More about getting these folks to talk to the right people,I mean you don't go to the butchers to buy your vegetables....do you???? LOL

      Oh and the reason there was no clarification from the commission was cause nobody asked me,Don't really see why anybody would need one anyway,I didnt change the rule in its entirety,I just added the section about the previous 12 months
      Billy please correct me if I'm wrong but this wording at the start of section 22.8
      Before competing in a Street Race or National points Road Race meeting in any championship class,
      Shouldn't that be read before every sub section below it as far as what is required which is why I thought I needed a sharkfin which is why I contacted Kevin as he sells them.
      With Kevin being on the mnz road board i thought he would know (and seems to be right in this instance)so don't see why you pissed because I relayed that info on here.
      I may have not worded it properly and that is a problem I do have to explain things the way I mean and sometimes it comes across wrong.

      don't matter anyway I have pulled the pin and will concentrate on meets closer where I know I can relax without this bullshit.

      Good luck to the organisers and hope all have a cracking day.
    1. Dave-'s Avatar
      Dave- -
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Clarifications for what?????
      Looks pretty simple to follow too me,Whoever told anybody the rearward facing lights were for Nationals only,Should have their warrant removed pronto,If they can't read and understand the rulebook,How did they get a warrant in the first place,Same goes for the competitors,The due process for rule changes was followed,Trouble is as usual,The competitors can't be bothered keeping up to date and expect it to be MNZs fault automatically in the same way they don't have any input into the rule changes but think they can just get stuff changed after the fact.
      To be honest Billy your English is terrible it's no wonder to me that people are seeking clarification.

      The rule book is your way of communicating with the riders at large. You might have great ideas, you might work really hard and have all the greatest intentions. But without the ability to effectively communicate it all falls apart.

      It's not entirely your fault, the MNZ rule book is a travesty as an official document before you stepped in to the position. But that's no excuse to continue the trend.

      Do you have someone you can read rules to and have them explain their understanding? less experienced with motorcycles the better.

      "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

      edit: this rule here for example:

      Rule 22.8.16
      When the riders have lined up on the grid they are deemed to be under the starters control at the instant the RED FLAG reaches the side of the track.
      Any motorcycle that moves in a forward motion whilst under the starters control shall be deemed a jump start.

      A person who has never raced before, or has no knowledge of racing and is seeking to understand the rules would read that rule and be confused about how many starters there are. Most people can deduce from the sentence that there is at least one starter, but the fact an apostrophe has been left out either before or after the s at the end of starter is ambiguous as to how many there are. This is fairly minor as most people will work out that the race is about to start from other clues.

      The 2nd part is far more dangerous, it reads that the riders are only under control (irrespective of who's it is) for the split second the red flag is at the side of the track. It is not states who's control they are under before and after this point. This is actually very ambiguous and in an investigation MNZ could be found to be negligent.
    1. SWERVE's Avatar
      SWERVE -
      For somebody who is obviously such a master of the written word and schooled up on all aspects of matters legal or otherwise............. maybe you should offer your services as a proof reader of the rule book! Instead of playing keyboard warrior / expert on KB.
      As I see it the rule book is the guideline from which each club promoter works from so the basic structure remains the same. If you had listened at riders brief (at Ruapuna for instance) im assuming you actually participate? Then the little clarifications such as who is in charge prior to the flag reaching the edge of track.... and who the starter is (he is introduced and usually runs through the start procedure) are all covered very well in the briefing! But it does rely on the riders listening!!!!
      and asking questions if not sure.
      If half the people who come on here and bleat on about how it could be done better... or how badly it is being done? Actually contributed to the cause, then people like Billy, and myself who spend countless hours trying to improve things for all would not be getting "totally fucked of with the whole racing scene" and be considering getting out of it because of the shit that gets thrown.
      I thought my love of the sport was 'everlasting" but posts like this are a part of the reason I am having serious considerations as to how I spend my time
    1. Muzzab's Avatar
      Muzzab -
      Righto fellas, I think we have moved passed anything to do with the Greymouth Street Races now.

      If you have an issue that is not directly related to the event, start a thread and have an informed discussion
      there.

      For our event I think we have things sorted and that is all I care about at the moment.

      I don't want to get up anyones nose so please don't take this post personally.

      Cheers
      Murray
    1. Billy's Avatar
      Billy -
      Quote Originally Posted by SWERVE View Post
      For somebody who is obviously such a master of the written word and schooled up on all aspects of matters legal or otherwise............. maybe you should offer your services as a proof reader of the rule book! Instead of playing keyboard warrior / expert on KB.
      As I see it the rule book is the guideline from which each club promoter works from so the basic structure remains the same. If you had listened at riders brief (at Ruapuna for instance) im assuming you actually participate? Then the little clarifications such as who is in charge prior to the flag reaching the edge of track.... and who the starter is (he is introduced and usually runs through the start procedure) are all covered very well in the briefing! But it does rely on the riders listening!!!!
      and asking questions if not sure.
      If half the people who come on here and bleat on about how it could be done better... or how badly it is being done? Actually contributed to the cause, then people like Billy, and myself who spend countless hours trying to improve things for all would not be getting "totally fucked of with the whole racing scene" and be considering getting out of it because of the shit that gets thrown.
      I thought my love of the sport was 'everlasting" but posts like this are a part of the reason I am having serious considerations as to how I spend my time
      Hahahahaha,

      DON'T let the haters get to you mate,Although I must admit,You seem to have more than your fair share of them down there,The work you do and the effort you put in is far and above most peoples effort,The post you were quoting just cements a comment I made earlier that somehow it would be MNZs fault,Its classic gen y stuff where they wont take responsibility for their own inadequacies,What the idiot doesn't realise,Mostly cause he knows half as much as he makes out,Is that the board and the standing rules committee handle the rules following the submission process to ensure they are enforceable and reasonable,No use pointing the finger at this Kiwi,Still its my guess Dave won't bother asking me for a clarification again as he prolly won't understand it LMFAO!!!

      Keep up the good work mate,Your better than that.
    1. Dave-'s Avatar
      Dave- -
      Quote Originally Posted by SWERVE View Post
      For somebody who is obviously such a master of the written word and schooled up on all aspects of matters legal or otherwise............. maybe you should offer your services as a proof reader of the rule book! Instead of playing keyboard warrior / expert on KB.
      As I see it the rule book is the guideline from which each club promoter works from so the basic structure remains the same. If you had listened at riders brief (at Ruapuna for instance) im assuming you actually participate? Then the little clarifications such as who is in charge prior to the flag reaching the edge of track.... and who the starter is (he is introduced and usually runs through the start procedure) are all covered very well in the briefing! But it does rely on the riders listening!!!!
      and asking questions if not sure.
      If half the people who come on here and bleat on about how it could be done better... or how badly it is being done? Actually contributed to the cause, then people like Billy, and myself who spend countless hours trying to improve things for all would not be getting "totally fucked of with the whole racing scene" and be considering getting out of it because of the shit that gets thrown.
      I thought my love of the sport was 'everlasting" but posts like this are a part of the reason I am having serious considerations as to how I spend my time
      Ok.

      I don't have a lot of time but I'd be interested in starting with new rules. In time I could work through the entire rule book? I emailed Billy about the red light rule and it's obscure terminology. I'd like to run for road race commissioner in the next few years and introduce some youth, technology and fresh ideas into the operations of the sport. I've made recommendations to Billy about what could be done to increase efficiency and bring interest to the youth who you're so keen to get involved with the sport. I have many more.

      Don't worry about me not knowing who the starter is I can work it out, it's only an example of a very minor thing. But just because a starter is introduced at riders briefing doesn't mean that there could be others. I'm just expressing the importance of proper English in an official document and how an insignificant apostrophe can completely change the meaning of a sentence. I'm by no means perfect, especially when yarning on here.

      I really don't mean to offend, I know you guys do a heap of hard work, but it really can be wasted when communication is poor. This is a simple concept that has been well documented the world over, any organisation with poor communication will struggle.

      edit: sorry for clogging up your thread Muzzab, I'll email Billy myself from here on. Cheers
    1. Billy's Avatar
      Billy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Muzzab View Post
      Righto fellas, I think we have moved passed anything to do with the Greymouth Street Races now.

      If you have an issue that is not directly related to the event, start a thread and have an informed discussion
      there.

      For our event I think we have things sorted and that is all I care about at the moment.

      I don't want to get up anyones nose so please don't take this post personally.

      Cheers
      Murray
      Yip,

      Well said Murray,Unfortunately its one of the joys of using KB for promoting your event,Might I just say in closing,Your club has been exemplary in the handling of your applications this year and one of only 2 clubs to follow the template I set up with all clubs last year,My humblest apologies for the delay with the permit applications but as you guys were the first to apply following the new protocol being set,It took a little longer than we anticipated to get sorted.Hope your meeting goes well.
    1. 300weatherby's Avatar
      300weatherby -
      Quote Originally Posted by SWERVE View Post
      For somebody who is obviously such a master of the written word and schooled up on all aspects of matters legal or otherwise............. maybe you should offer your services as a proof reader of the rule book! Instead of playing keyboard warrior / expert on KB.
      As I see it the rule book is the guideline from which each club promoter works from so the basic structure remains the same. If you had listened at riders brief (at Ruapuna for instance) im assuming you actually participate? Then the little clarifications such as who is in charge prior to the flag reaching the edge of track.... and who the starter is (he is introduced and usually runs through the start procedure) are all covered very well in the briefing! But it does rely on the riders listening!!!!
      and asking questions if not sure.
      If half the people who come on here and bleat on about how it could be done better... or how badly it is being done? Actually contributed to the cause, then people like Billy, and myself who spend countless hours trying to improve things for all would not be getting "totally fucked of with the whole racing scene" and be considering getting out of it because of the shit that gets thrown.
      I thought my love of the sport was 'everlasting" but posts like this are a part of the reason I am having serious considerations as to how I spend my time
      Geeze Merv,

      This is KB, if you take this place that seriously, you are gonna take a beating. Doesn't matter who is right or wrong if you bite when the Troll fairy swings by.
    1. Muzzab's Avatar
      Muzzab -
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
      Yip,

      Well said Murray,Unfortunately its one of the joys of using KB for promoting your event,Might I just say in closing,Your club has been exemplary in the handling of your applications this year and one of only 2 clubs to follow the template I set up with all clubs last year,My humblest apologies for the delay with the permit applications but as you guys were the first to apply following the new protocol being set,It took a little longer than we anticipated to get sorted.Hope your meeting goes well.
      Thanks, you being available to advise on all our recent queries is appreciated too.
      Will be good to get this one under our belt and rock on to the 25th one next year.
    1. Muzzab's Avatar
      Muzzab -
      Good to see entries hitting the bank account, keep it up, remember first in first served




      cheers
      Muzza
      Treasurer
      GMSR
    1. Muzzab's Avatar
      Muzzab -
      Good stuff, keep the entries coming, don't forget entries close on the 12th of October if you are still to get one in.

      Cheers
      Muzza
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