Lighting coil issue, help me please

[Starky307]

You are saying that

a)..you have the neg of your meter on the battery neg
b).. on the battery side of the single diode you have 12.5 to 14.5 volts depending on RPM
c).. on the other side of the diode you get no reading on you meter, and all you have moved is the positive meter lead.

Pretty clearly this is not possible, unless the meter is being mislead ! An old analog meter would be handy here, it could be that your digital meter is unable to make a good a/d conversion on the rectified AC at the regulator output.

But it still doesn't show why the relay will pull in when connected from battery neg to battery pos, yet it wont pull in when connetec from battery neg to rectifier output.

This is only possible if the point you are placing the negative of the relay is changing, or one of your negative wires is crook.

Steps A and B are right but step C I get a measured dc voltage that appears to be the difference between the battery voltage and the reg/rec output, it is around 0-1.5 ish vdc depending on RPM.

All the joints were properly soldered more than once to start with and I checked the continuity where ever possible, in the end i used terminal block connectors so I could take it all apart and check again and again what was going on at different points in the circuit.

Trust me when I say this, I have checked and re checked everything I have done over the last couple of weeks. I have taken it all apart and started again more times than I have had hot dinners this week (mainly because I was at my fathers working on my bike till late). It has me stumped, I may even try again with some proper test instruments available.

this is extremely perplexing. You have tried hooking up another 12v source in place of the rectifier, this makes the circuit function as you want it too right?
Therefor there has to be some sort of problem with the stator/rectifier side of things, which there shouldn't be as it is charging the battery. All i can think of is that for some reason the stator isnt generating enough current, but this seems unlikely, do you have part numbers/tech specs for the stator and rectiier components?

Yeah I simulated it in place on the bike by using a second battery, I used a second battery to replace the output from the reg/rec and it worked perfectly. When the second battery was connected (to simulated the bike running and the reg/rec outputting + 12vdc) the relay pulled in and the lights came on, remove the second battery and the relay dropped out and the lights stopped.

I'll get a link to the parts used tomorrow as it is all on my work computer's email.

It was all Moose racing electrical stator and regulator/rectifier.

[bogan]

Yeah I simulated it in place on the bike by using a second battery, I used a second battery to replace the output from the reg/rec and it worked perfectly. When the second battery was connected (to simulated the bike running and the reg/rec outputting + 12vdc) the relay pulled in and the lights came on, remove the second battery and the relay dropped out and the lights stopped.

right, so it has to be something to be something to do with the power source, low current, or some current looping anomoly through the relay inductor/diode (cant see how this would be possible though).

Have you tried just hooking the bulb directly to the rectifier output? would establish whether there is significant current, though i wouldnt use it like that for too long if it does light up, may wear the bulb filament out quickly

[Starky307]

right, so it has to be something to be something to do with the power source, low current, or some current looping anomoly through the relay inductor/diode (cant see how this would be possible though).

Have you tried just hooking the bulb directly to the rectifier output? would establish whether there is significant current, though i wouldnt use it like that for too long if it does light up, may wear the bulb filament out quickly

Yeah I did, when I hooked the reg/rec output directly to the light nothing happens, but if I hook the battery directly to it the voltage increases with RPM, WTF I hear you say, I've been standing next to my bike saying that alot lately.

[bogan]

yeh voltage increasing with rpm makes sense (dont know if its normal), and it cud just be the multimeter reading it a bit wrong too, actually thats probably the case.
Some pics of stator instal, rectifier, wiring, multimeter etc may shed some light on it if its easy to do. As im unsure what could be going wrong atm

[davereid]

This observed voltage increase with RPM may be (misleading) us to think the stator - rectifier combo is doing its thing correctly.

Try..
measure the charge current instead of battery voltage. That will show us if the alternator is making any juice.

Get a hefty test light- 25 watts, and put it across the output of the rectifier, testing it is actually proving the goods, not just f.n up your meter.

If no joy on those tests, put the test lamp across the INPUT to the rectifier, and see if the alternator is actually making anything.

[Starky307]

yeh voltage increasing with rpm makes sense (dont know if its normal), and it cud just be the multimeter reading it a bit wrong too, actually thats probably the case.
Some pics of stator instal, rectifier, wiring, multimeter etc may shed some light on it if its easy to do. As im unsure what could be going wrong atm

I'll try and take some photos but don't realy want to open up the bike to take a photo of the stator.

This observed voltage increase with RPM may be (misleading) us to think the stator - rectifier combo is doing its thing correctly.

Try..
measure the charge current instead of battery voltage. That will show us if the alternator is making any juice.

Get a hefty test light- 25 watts, and put it across the output of the rectifier, testing it is actually proving the goods, not just f.n up your meter.

If no joy on those tests, put the test lamp across the INPUT to the rectifier, and see if the alternator is actually making anything.

I didn't have access to a meter that I could measure the charge current of the battery but I'll see what I can do this week.

Check out this link as it is the items i have.

I brought both the ac headlight regulator and the 12v Regulator/Rectifier, note it states it must be conected to a battery to function properly, this is the big catch with the whole system.

As mentioned previously I know the stator works as the headlight is now working using the ac regulator and the LED tail light is running of my own bridge rectifier. See pic attached.

[Starky307]

Pic attached this time.

[bogan]

It does seem odd that the 12v regulator rectifier needs a battery, and a capacitor wont just do the job. But it sounds like using the ac regulator makes it work as intended so youll just be running with that now i assume?

[bogan]

just read from another link that the voltage regulator requires a reference voltage to work properly, ie a 12v battery, an when the diode is in place that voltage reference cannot get back to the rectifier, so this could be your problem.
Though having a regulator that requires an external reference voltage makes very little sense to me, i may even try to find a reg schematic to figure out why this might be, and whether it is the most common approach.

[Starky307]

It does seem odd that the 12v regulator rectifier needs a battery, and a capacitor wont just do the job. But it sounds like using the ac regulator makes it work as intended so youll just be running with that now i assume?

Yeah I'll keep the ac regulator in it for now, it just makes the lights dim at idle, I wanted to overcome that by having the battery, I guess I'll have to live with it as is, god lifes tough.

I thought of just using the bridge rec I made to do the job of the reg/rec i brought but then I wanted to know the theory for the reg/rec and my wiring not working.

If i get bored over the next week or so I might try it as I have drawn to see if it would work. See pic

[bogan]

Yeah I'll keep the ac regulator in it for now, it just makes the lights dim at idle, I wanted to overcome that by having the battery, I guess I'll have to live with it as is, god lifes tough.

I thought of just using the bridge rec I made to do the job of the reg/rec i brought but then I wanted to know the theory for the reg/rec and my wiring not working.

If i get bored over the next week or so I might try it as I have drawn to see if it would work. See pic

yeh thatd prolly work (ac reg i assume ur using) but the charging of the battery may be a bit iffy, as it wont be getting a regulated voltage/current.

sounds like a bit dim at idle shouldnt be too much of a problem, ur not often needing high visibility at idle!