What's going to happen to Holden?

[xwhatsit]

And don't forget that it's pretty hard to find a state-owned car manufacturing success story anywhere in the world. The words "British Leyland" should have everybody trembling in their boots.

That Volkswagen went all right in the early years... some say the Nazi Hitler years had the best quality control

Could Holden be spun out into its own thing? Don't they mostly use inherited engines not of their own design anyway -- how would they get access to that economically? Or was that the Ford 6-cylinders?

[peasea]

I don't think its the love thats making it fall to bits.

You're just jealous.

[davereid]

Could Holden be spun out into its own thing? Don't they mostly use inherited engines not of their own design anyway -- how would they get access to that economically? Or was that the Ford 6-cylinders?

The 3.8 litre Holden engine was an ancient old girl, originally sourced from Buick, who dumped it because it had inherent balance problems. (GM solved that with a crank redesign.)

The current V6 was a worldwide project, with Aussie a very important contributor, and still the major builder of the engine.

Holdens real problem is scale and export.

ie... The aussie/nz market is not big enough for Holden to be able to remain a manufacturer. It will be marginal for them to survive as an assembler, but G'mint money may assure that to save jobs.

They need export markets. But just like we are seeing with agriculture, the EU and US are protecting their own.

With $$$Billions$$$ of taxpayer dollars being poured into rescue packages, it is not practical to think that US and EU autoworkers will continue opening engine and CKD crates from australia and add paint and badges !

[p.dath]

The 3.8 litre Holden engine was an ancient old girl, originally sourced from Buick, who dumped it because it had inherent balance problems. (GM solved that with a crank redesign.)

The current V6 was a worldwide project, with Aussie a very important contributor, and still the major builder of the engine.

Holdens real problem is scale and export.

ie... The aussie/nz market is not big enough for Holden to be able to remain a manufacturer. It will be marginal for them to survive as an assembler, but G'mint money may assure that to save jobs.

They need export markets. But just like we are seeing with agriculture, the EU and US are protecting their own.

With $$$Billions$$$ of taxpayer dollars being poured into rescue packages, it is not practical to think that US and EU autoworkers will continue opening engine and CKD crates from australia and add paint and badges !

But Holden do export, into the European market, under the brand Opel (Google "Opel Commodore").
Also you need to remember that one of the reasons Holden exists as a manufacturer in Australia is because Australia regards it as a critical DEFENCE asset. The Holden factory is capable of manufacturing heavy munitions. For this reason alone the Australian government wont allow the factory to close. Australia really doesn't have any other facilities to produce such munitions (currently they buy most of them from foreign countries, but they want the capability to manufacture should they need to).

[davereid]

But Holden do export, into the European market, under the brand Opel (Google "Opel Commodore").

Yes, Holden also export to the USA, and Asia and have for many years.

My suggestion is, that these exports will come under threat in the same way our agricultural exports have.

US taxpayers expect to bail-out US jobs.

Even though we may not see obvious tariffs, you can bet that GM officials are looking across the table at US Government officials and being asked why the Chevy Lumina can't be made in Michigan instead of Melbourne.

p.s. the Opel arrangement is generally the other way around.. that is Holden base production on an existing Opel.. ie Commodore was an aussie built opel.

[Finn]

Whenever I see a Holden (or Ford) I think "rapist, wife beater, knuckle dragger" etc, etc. So surely both brands disappearing can't be a bad thing.

[skidMark]

Whenever I see a Holden (or Ford) I think "rapist, wife beater, knuckle dragger" etc, etc. So surely both brands disappearing can't be a bad thing.

Well you cant see over the wheel finn so it must anger you to see that holden badge in the steering wheel at eye height eh?

[Finn]

Well you cant see over the wheel finn so it must anger you to see that holden badge in the steering wheel at eye height eh?

Since when has line of sight been an issue for NZ drivers?

[Mikkel]

Bling to the first person to ID the car: http://static.stuff.co.nz/1242122971/909/2405909.jpg

Easy, that's a Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Astra wagon... Hitcher should have gotten that.

Opel Vauxhall and Holden are are mirror images of each other the main difference being the badge

Well, Opel models have been sold under a wide range of brand names across the world. One of my mates here in NZ has a "Pontiac Lemans" (fancy name eh) which is just a rebranded Opel Kadet.
And that seems to be how it works, Opel cars being sold to different markets under different brandnames. I.e. the Vectra, Astra and Omega are all traditional Opel models. This thing is most definitely NOT a Holden:

[NZsarge]

I'd be more worried about the future of marques that have a significant GM shareholding rather than being owned outright -- like Saab and Subaru, for instance. Proper cars, not Holdens or Chevs.

I'd far rather see Holden stay intact as it is than worry about the likes of Saab (can't remember the last time I saw a Saab on the road and half of them are just re-skinned Subaru's now anyway) and Subaru, could'nt give a toss about Subaru, they don't build cars I can fit into anyway (stupid lack of knee room under the steering wheel, it's got nothing to do with the girth of my stomach if that's what you were thinking) and heaven help Subbie driver might have to contemplate a Mitsubishi!

[Beemer]

I'd be more worried about the future of marques that have a significant GM shareholding rather than being owned outright -- like Saab and Subaru, for instance. Proper cars, not Holdens or Chevs.

Mr H, if you're not careful the open invitation to afternoon tea and whiskey drinking at our place will be rescinded! We now own a Chev if you don't mind!

And Mikkel, that looks like a Chinese-made Corvette - very sad!

[Pixie]

GM Australia will go cap in hand to the Chinese, and they will be refinanced, and re badged as Ping Foo.
2 cylder diesels will be matched to a jigger gearbox and V8 supercars will be inundated with drivers who look like Jackie Chan. MHO

Everybody wins,then.


Aussie cars are crap anyway

[Mikkel]

I'd far rather see Holden stay intact as it is than worry about the likes of Saab (can't remember the last time I saw a Saab on the road and half of the are just re-skinned Subaru's now anyway) and Subaru, could'nt give a toss about Subaru, they don't build cars I can fit into anyway (stupid lack of knee room under the steering wheel, it's got nothing to do with the girth of my stomach if that's what you were thinking) and heaven help Subbie driver might have to contemplate a Mitsubishi!

Unlike Holden, Saab at least has a history of innovation behind them. Granted, that particular characteristic has kinda slipped into the background since GM took over.

As for Subarus, I'd dare say that there is not a better suited vehicle for NZ than the Subarus. The bang and quality you get for your money is second to none. But yes, I'd have to agree that the ergonomics sometimes leaves something to be desired.

And Mikkel, that looks like a Chinese-made Corvette - very sad!

That just goes to show how little you know - bloody philistines.
What you look at is impeccable German engineering - well maybe not, but at least it looks good. Considering that it's a 1965 design the Opel GT is a classic.

[Pixie]

My guess ?

Holden will become a car assembly plant, with the real australian 6 and 8 cyl cars becoming history.

What are they now?
Commodore:A modified Opel with a Suzuki designed engine

[NZsarge]

Unlike Holden, Saab at least has a history of innovation behind them.
And look where that got them...
As for Subarus, I'd dare say that there is not a better suited vehicle for NZ than the Subarus. The bang and quality you get for your money is second to none. But yes, I'd have to agree that the ergonomics sometimes leaves something to be desired.

Does'nt matter how well suited the car is to our conditions if they are geared to fit Asians rather than European bodies, at least in most Mitsubishi's I can get my knee's under the steering wheel and have sufficient headroom and last time I looked Mitsi made plenty of comparable cars to Subaru that are more suitable ergonomically to the average NZ'er be they big or small.

At least in a Holden (Commodore, particularly the VE) I know once the driving position is adjusted I can get in and out of the car with relative ease and have a reasonable seat/pedal/steering wheel relationship ergo wise which is more than I can most cars including the later model Falcons which are quite bad...