Staying alive on the road.

[caseye]

While expounding the nasty traits of motorists in cars may not be ideal, to Not tell someone who to watch out for is a greater sin, least I think it is.
New riders, even old and re entering the scene riders simply have no idea of the amount of crap they are going to have to deal with everytime they take their bike out on the road.
I totally agree with the idea that if you find yourself whistling or not paying attention then something IS Going to happen to you.
Used to be that was a might happen, many more vehicles on the roads these
days and so many of them driven/piloted by uncomprehending fools.
Not to make a rider aware of this is tantamount to handing them a death sentence.

[FROSTY:Me]

Mike I really think we are reading from the same prayer book just saying it a different way.
I also suspect that your students were in a more country enviroment whereas mine tend to be in the big city ,heavy traffic enviroment.
I genuinely believe that getting the subconcios (sp) mindset that they are all out to kill me is a good one for city riding.

[GOONR]

I'm one of the older (almost 40) people getting back in to riding. I have seen on various sites that I am in one of the highest crash categories so any (good) advice is appreciated and will be taken on board.

I used to ride in London. A long time ago but central London even back then was manic and yes, it did feel like everyone was out to get you. I know that wasn't really the case as I would find it hard to believe that people would wake up in the morning and go "I think I'll hit a bike today". BUT I always left the house with the thought that they could take me out and kept that thought until I turned the bike off and put it on the stand.

[bikemike]

I read your post(s) and wondered if your mommy breastfed you too long.

Bottle fed, unfortunately. Ah, that must be it...

Still, I seem to have hit a nerve.

Newbies, I'd be disregarding any advice that doesn't come from the more experienced riders on this site. KatMan, Frosty, or most all of the riders with a green ME beside their name denoting mentors - all good places for advice.
MBB

As it happens, I have been riding for 26 years.
I've never had an accident of any kind, on the road.
I've ridden on track, off road, on road. Taken courses, read, studied, practised, and taught, a little.
I don't have an ME on my sign, perhaps I should, perhaps I don't deserve one, but either way if I did, would it make my opinion or experience any more or less valuable, relevant, or in particular, debatable?

Mike I really think we are reading from the same prayer book just saying it a different way.
I also suspect that your students were in a more country enviroment whereas mine tend to be in the big city ,heavy traffic enviroment.
I genuinely believe that getting the subconcios (sp) mindset that they are all out to kill me is a good one for city riding.

• I hope so, mostly. I just take issue with the out to kill me idea.
• No, all city.
• And I still disagree. A couple of others' posts seem to miss the point that I agree we all need to be super alert, who wouldn't. The point is, or my point is, I think it's more constructive to put the fear in a believable context; that you are invisible.

Put it this way. Mr New Bee gets the sage advise to ride as if everyone is out to kill him. He rides with that in mind under tuition and guidance for some time and then begins to head out on his own and start developing his riding skills on his own initiative. Some time later he begins to realise that in fact he hasn't had a single road user try to kill him. Not one. Consciously or subconsciously he acknowledges that they aren't, and he's doing just fine thank you. This unfortunately coincides with that precious and dangerous period where confidence increases at a faster rate than the required ability. What rule to follow now?

Ms New Bee gets different advice; that she should ride as if she might be invisible, that even those road users who appear to have flashed lights, waved hands, or even stared right into her own eyes have in fact not seen her. She rides with that in mind under tuition and guidance for some time and see that indeed, 'tis true, time and again, 'people just canny see me'! Now she begins to head out on her own and start developing her riding skills on her own initiative. Some time later she begins to realise that in fact she hasn't had a single accident but, she still sees cases of partial blindness, almost every frigging ride. Now she begins to take control. She knows that she sees what others do not see.

OK, needs clarity, but doesn't anyone see my point?

Frosty, it's not you, I don't know you from Adam, it's just the point of view - which appears to be the most prevalent one on here also.

[one fast tl1ooo]

It also pays to watch out for road cones - they can mean one of two things - stock on the road - or road works.

Often you are concentrating on the road, and its easy not to take notice, but its esstential to keep watch

[GOONR]

A couple of others' posts seem to miss the point that I agree we all need to be super alert, who wouldn't. The point is, or my point is, I think it's more constructive to put the fear in a believable context; that you are invisible....

......EDITED......

.....but doesn't anyone see my point?

I see where you are coming from.

Personally I believe that both ways of saying be vigilant at all times are valid, if we only had one way of saying something then certain people just wouldn't get the point of the message. I guess at the end of the day it is up to the person receiving the advise to understand what it really means.

[MSTRS:Me]

I guess at the end of the day it is up to the person receiving the advise to understand what it really means.

More pertinent would be for the person GIVING the advise to be clear, concise, accurate and realistic.

[FROSTY:Me]

More pertinent would be for the person GIVING the advise to be clear, concise, accurate and realistic.

Yup I agree. Unfortunately it seems to be that to get through to the "YOOF" of today as a rule you need something thats gonna get the message across clear as a bell. cos dead is as they say dead.

[Katman]

'Owning your bit of road' is certainly not defined by 'riding in the right hand wheel track'. 'Owning your bit of road' is defined by riding with confidence, controlled assertion and total awareness.