Mid-winter Coro, 20 June

**idleidolidyll** · 23rd June 2009, 10:51

Din,
I know it hurts but don't be so quick to judge.
Michael was NOT a noob, he was an experienced rider. This was his first time with KB but not his first ride or group ride.
The fault is not Andy's.

**jafar** · 23rd June 2009, 11:17

Originally Posted by Maha

Personally I have confidence in Death_Inc as a rider and a person and laying blame on him bullshit.

Totally agree.
Organising riders is a lot like herding cats, no matter what you do or say they will do what they want anyway !
Blaming someone that organized the event is wrong, we all know what the Coro loop rides are about & it is up to each individual rider to be responsible for his or her own ride !

**Dreamflyer** · 23rd June 2009, 11:18

Originally Posted by Leyton

I expect a reaction from this post to the tune of, you were not there, blah blah blah blah BLAH blah BlaH blah Blah blah, go head. It means nothing to me and I see it disrespectfull to all those in the comunity including KB who are acually genuine and have the maturity and disipline to keep the trap shut. If you have something constructive and non hostile to say, good on you the world needs more people like you.

Leyton

Hi guys, now, this is my first post here, but I've been watching the community for a while now.
You all seem like a fantastic group of people with MANY MANY years experience behind right?
The blame game on anybody will not change a thing, just make everyone feel worse.
And as someone else said before, remember there are others out there reading this, and I am one of them. I knew Mike on a personal level. worked with him, chatted with him etc, and there is also a slight family connection (well, there was), and reading all your bitching hurts the rest of us..cool it off, and be constructive. He doesn't want us scraping it out. He will want us to learn from it. and yes, he was a very experienced rider...
thats my 10c worth. i'll see you guys round when i start coming on rides...

nick

**Brett** · 23rd June 2009, 13:09

Originally Posted by Maha

Personally I have confidence in Death_Inc as a rider and a person and laying blame on him bullshit. Its like laying blame on the Captain of the Titanic, it wasnt his fault that the ship hit an ice-breg in 1912, he certainly knew the dangers of what was out there but never gave the order to push it. That decision was made by someone else.

100% with you Maha. Have ridden with Andy and have not a single issue with him.

**smoky** · 23rd June 2009, 13:46

Originally Posted by DIN PELENDA

Why invite some one that "never ride loop, doesn't even know how to get to Kopu, first KB ride .... you never talk to him and new riders or warn them abouth roads" ......why organize the ride you should know better!... this could be prevented the signs were there,...

why are people continuing to insinuate that the way the ride was organised had anything to do with the accident? What the hell does the fact that he didn't even "know how to get to Kopu" got to do with anything?
All you people who think there needs to be some better organisation around these rides - why don't you do something about it - or at lest go and join a club and join their organised rides.
I have suggested in the past that KB could put up some guidelines for organised rides, but at the end of the day - it's not a proper club, it is not funded, it only works with the good will of those who choose to participate.
As it happens I posted the meeting place, time and departure for the Hamilton riders who joined the Auckland riders at Kopu, but who am I to dictate to any one - who would listen to me anyway, it's a group consensus thing.
There are groups within KB that are more structured - like LOR in the Waikato, if that's your thing.

KB is a web site - not an organised club, if you accept a general invitation to join in on a ride with others you must surely realise it's not going to be a highly orchestrated event - It's an open forum web site. You will only get out what you put in. If you don't like what's happening, step up on the day and show some initiative. If you felt there needed to be some form of briefing before we started - do it

Originally Posted by Katman

Trouble is, we also know the manner in which KB Coro rides are generally conducted. How many tragic events have to befall the Coro loop before people start to learn something.

Katman, I agree with some of your concerns - but I think you're getting things out of proportion - for example I have done probably 10 -15 Coro loops, at lest half of those have been on KB organised rides (Auckland riders are not the only ones on KB to organise rides around the loop), I only know of two of those rides where some one was injured.
I have gone on, and personally taken, organised rides around the Coro specifically for inexperienced riders. There has not been any issues.

What figures do you have to support your insinuation that KB Coro rides are more dangerous, or contribute to 'tragic events', more than people riding around on any other ride, in a group, or by them selves?

Perhaps you're over reacting to what was a tragedy, and your opinion has some how been skewed away from reality

**Boosted** · 23rd June 2009, 13:46

Originally Posted by Dreamflyer

Hi guys, now, this is my first post here, but I've been watching the community for a while now.
You all seem like a fantastic group of people with MANY MANY years experience behind right?
The blame game on anybody will not change a thing, just make everyone feel worse.
And as someone else said before, remember there are others out there reading this, and I am one of them. I knew Mike on a personal level. worked with him, chatted with him etc, and there is also a slight family connection (well, there was), and reading all your bitching hurts the rest of us..cool it off, and be constructive. He doesn't want us scraping it out. He will want us to learn from it. and yes, he was a very experienced rider...
thats my 10c worth. i'll see you guys round when i start coming on rides...

nick

Nice one dude... sorry for the loss, seems like a really cool chap from his facebook...
Hope to seeya around
Adam

**Cr1MiNaL** · 23rd June 2009, 14:59

Originally Posted by jafar

Totally agree.
Organising riders is a lot like herding cats, no matter what you do or say they will do what they want anyway !
each individual rider to be responsible for his or her own ride !

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally Posted by smoky

I have suggested in the past that KB could put up some guidelines for organised rides, but at the end of the day - it's not a proper club, it is not funded, it only works with the good will of those who choose to participate.
KB is a web site - not an organised club, if you accept a general invitation to join in on a ride with others you must surely realise it's not going to be a highly orchestrated event .... You will only get out what you put in. Perhaps you're over reacting to what was a tragedy, and your opinion has some how been skewed away from reality

Responsibility is where it is at. Not shrugging off the blame. Each rider rides his own ride and accounts for his own actions or inactions, whatever they might be.

**Starky307** · 23rd June 2009, 15:10

Originally Posted by Dreamflyer

Hi guys, now, this is my first post here, but I've been watching the community for a while now.
You all seem like a fantastic group of people with MANY MANY years experience behind right?
The blame game on anybody will not change a thing, just make everyone feel worse.
And as someone else said before, remember there are others out there reading this, and I am one of them. I knew Mike on a personal level. worked with him, chatted with him etc, and there is also a slight family connection (well, there was), and reading all your bitching hurts the rest of us..cool it off, and be constructive. He doesn't want us scraping it out. He will want us to learn from it. and yes, he was a very experienced rider...
thats my 10c worth. i'll see you guys round when i start coming on rides...

nick

Nick, first off I am sorry for your loss, and that of Mike's family, there is nothing more I can say on that.

Secondly, thank you for what you have posted, it is of importance that everyone understands that this is an open website that anyone may view, member or not.

To all, please think carefully about what you may right on here, there are a lot of people who are grieving right now and everyone deals with it in a different mannor, some posts may not have been written the same way had the hurt of feelings not clouded ones judgement.

Once more please read what nick has written, I quoted it so it would be fresh to all. There are so many valid points in his post.

**SPman** · 23rd June 2009, 15:35

Don't blame yourself Andy - it's not your fault!

When you ride with a group, as on a "KB website suggested ride", (not organised, because they aren't - they are a loose knit collection of riders who want to ride the same roads at the same time), the dynamics of the group make it impossible to know what's going to happen. Even if they are all experienced mates who always ride together!

When mistakes are made ( and they always are, no ones perfect) and the results are tragic, everyone feels bad, some feel angry, - understandable, but blame shouldn't be an issue unless people are riding 10/10ths with no regard for the road, traffic or anyone else's safety - which was apparently not the case here.

I've ridden with you on Coro rides - I know what you're like - a quick smooth competent rider who doesn't like people to over ride themselves when riding with you (or at all), and one who makes allowances for all riding levels. Don't blame yourself!

We are all, ultimately, however, responsible for ourselves, never more so than when we ride - which is surely, one of the reasons we do ride.
You can't control what happens on someone else's bike, any more than someone else can control yours.
It's a shit thing to happen, but it has.

My sympathies to all involved.

**Katman** · 23rd June 2009, 18:35

Originally Posted by smoky

Katman, I agree with some of your concerns - but I think you're getting things out of proportion - for example I have done probably 10 -15 Coro loops, at lest half of those have been on KB organised rides (Auckland riders are not the only ones on KB to organise rides around the loop), I only know of two of those rides where some one was injured.
I have gone on, and personally taken, organised rides around the Coro specifically for inexperienced riders. There has not been any issues.

What figures do you have to support your insinuation that KB Coro rides are more dangerous, or contribute to 'tragic events', more than people riding around on any other ride, in a group, or by them selves?

Perhaps you're over reacting to what was a tragedy, and your opinion has some how been skewed away from reality

Just reading through this one thread produces a number of posts that give a few clues to the manner in which KB Coro loop rides are undertaken.

Have a read of posts #18, 30, 31, 51, 53, 57, 58, 67, 94, 96, 108, 142, 154, 170. (Still haven't managed to figure out yet how to do the multi-quote thing).

There are countless other threads on this site about the Coro loop that paint an almost identical picture.

**DIN PELENDA** · 23rd June 2009, 19:13

Originally Posted by Brett

100% with you Maha. Have ridden with Andy and have not a single issue with him.

Don't get me wrong Andy is good man and very good rider, but don't underestimate riders they not good as you, and take care of them, or maybe this was all to much for me, I may be weak, but this is my way of dealing with that for now.

**Maha** · 23rd June 2009, 19:26

Originally Posted by DIN PELENDA

Don't get me wrong Andy is good man and very good rider, but don't underestimate riders they not good as you, and take care of them, or maybe this was all to much for me, I may be weak, but this is my way of dealing with that for now.

And thats all good DIN, deal with it best you can buddy, there are some on here that have been through this senario for a 2nd time, it must be the worst time for those that witness such a tragedy. Looking for blame and answers is a natural response, with time (although the vision may not go away) it will get easier to cope with. You are not weak, any red blooded human will deal with it in their own way, its called emotions, we all have them. Chin up and stay strong mate, and that goes for everyone who was there.

**smoky** · 23rd June 2009, 21:14

Originally Posted by Katman

Just reading through this one thread produces a number of posts that give a few clues to the manner in which KB Coro loop rides are undertaken..

There are countless other threads on this site about the Coro loop that paint an almost identical picture.

There is a countless number of threads about all sorts of rides, even organised rides with other groups, that have shit like that posted on it
KB and the internet is not reality, it is not a true representation of behavior on rides, I've been on enough rides to know that
People are full of talk - just go to the pub and listen to a bunch of young guys boosting and ribbing each other.

It's hardly exclusive to KB or threads about rides around the Coro

And again - the ride was not like that, if you were there you would know that.

One thing I do agree with you on is; people who post that kind of bullshit on here prior to a ride - then say everyone is responsible for their own ride, nothing to do with me, is a hypocrite in my books

There is such a thing as collective responsibility

**skidMark** · 23rd June 2009, 22:32

Originally Posted by Katman

Trouble is, we also know the manner in which KB Coro rides are generally conducted. How many tragic events have to befall the Coro loop before people start to learn something.

For once Katman... we are in agreement.