Bain, what's the answer going to be?

[duckonin]

Eventually the truth will come out. The Police don't forget, and if someone can come up with something convincing they will investigate it.

Or make it up to suit ....

[Winston001]

Also the compensation comes under civil law where the bar is the preponderance of evidence, if he is 50.x% more likely innocent than guilty then he gets the money.

Not quite correct. The level of proof is the civil standard - on the balance of probabilities/preponderance of evidence. That is usually understood to be 66% certain, not 50.1%. Essentially David Bain is in the position of having to prove he was 66% unlikely to have committed the murders.

FYI beyond reasonable doubt is usually regarded as 75% certain.

[Banditbandit]

FYI beyond reasonable doubt is usually regarded as 75% certain.

Naa mate ... I have heard many many judges tell the jury that if they have any doubts at all they can not convict ... bvut trhese "doubts" have to be "reasonable" - what reasonable people would think ... which is why a jury is made up of 12 reasonable people (apparently) ..

[oneofsix]

I always took it that beyond reasonable doubt meant that using reasonable argument there had to be no doubt in your mind that they were guilty but I decided to do some wiki hunting, a law library would have been better I know, and this upsets me.

New Zealand
In New Zealand, jurors are typically told throughout a trial that the offence must be proved "beyond reasonable doubt", and judges usually include this in the summing-up.[6] There is no absolute prescription as to how judges should explain reasonable doubt to juries. Judges usually tell jurors that they will be satisfied beyond reasonable doubt if they "feel sure" or "are sure" that the defendant is guilty.[7] In line with appellate court direction, judges do little to elaborate on this or to explain what it means.[6][7]
Research published in 1999 found that many jurors were uncertain what "beyond reasonable doubt" meant. "They generally thought in terms of percentages, and debated and disagreed with each other about the percentage certainty required for 'beyond reasonable doubt', variously interpreting it as 100 per cent, 95 per cent, 75 per cent and even 50 per cent. Occasionally this produced profound misunderstandings about the standard of proof."[6]

No wonder some of the convictions are so suspect and then the appeals process doesn't address these dodgy convictions. Sorry but if we are to convict someone as a criminal then we should be sure they did it.

as for Preponderance of the evidence

Preponderance of the evidence
Preponderance of the evidence, also known as balance of probabilities is the standard required in most civil cases.
This is also the standard of proof used in Grand Jury indictment proceedings (which, unlike civil proceedings, are procedurally unrebuttable), and in family court determinations solely involving money, such as child support under the Child Support Standards Act.
The standard is met if the proposition is more likely to be true than not true. Effectively, the standard is satisfied if there is greater than 50 percent chance that the proposition is true. Lord Denning, in Miller v. Minister of Pensions,[5] described it simply as "more probable than not." Until 1970, this was also the standard used in juvenile court in the United States.
This is also the standard of proof used when determining eligibility of unemployment benefits for a former employee accused of losing their job through alleged misconduct. In most US states, the employer must prove this case based on preponderance of the evidence.

Also has a quote more what I thought about beyond reasonable doubt.

Either way if he can prove it was more likely he didn't do than he did he gets the money.

[Winston001]

Sigh...

Reasonable doubt does not equal no doubt. Each juror needs to be pretty damned sure but they don't have to be 100% certain.

The balance of probabilities is a lesser standard meaning much more likely than not.

In the Bain case in practical terms the judge may decide Bain was unlikely to have committed the murders = compensation. But he's going to have to show the police should not have prosecuted Bain or that they acted wrongly.

The reference above to percentages for these differing standards of proof is only a rough shorthand used by lawyers to guide their clients. Jurisprudential scholars debate this stuff endlessly, even using algebra to describe the process.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah ... plenty of debate .. which is why we challenged your percentages ... If the lawyers and jurisprudence experts can't decide .. then who are we to do so ..

[oneofsix]

Agreed. Never meant 100% absolutely no doubt as stated. Scary that they can't decide on the meaning of such a simple phrase

Hair splitting; but not just if the police got it wrong, also if the courts screwed up perhaps disallowing stuff that should have been allowed or visa versa.


I reckon it was the extended family trying to rid themselves of an embarrassing branch and they talked David into letting them burn down the house whilst he was in prison to remove all possibility of new evidence turning up. the tin hat slipped, sorry about that.

[R650R]

Bump... this seemed longest thread...

That first episode tonight was interesting... let’s see where it goes next week...

Read one of the other books years ago saw both sides...
But on that show, the mother sure seems angry. Could she have done it then David framed the father?

[SaferRides]

Bump... this seemed longest thread...

That first episode tonight was interesting... let’s see where it goes next week...

Read one of the other books years ago saw both sides...
But on that show, the mother sure seems angry. Could she have done it then David framed the father?

You should read the book.

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

[HenryDorsetCase]

Bain is a murderer and an Oscar worthy actor. MHO of course.

[Berries]

That first episode tonight was interesting... let’s see where it goes next week...

Hate to spoil it, but I think David goes to prison.

[R650R]

Hate to spoil it, but I think David goes to prison.

Hilarious LMAO

[R650R]

Bain is a murderer and an Oscar worthy actor. MHO of course.

One new thought I had watching last night was that David and his father both seemed lacking in the motivation dept for getting anything done.

[fridayflash]

Real life David had an RM80 when they lived in Port Moresby .... it would be great if they were able to recreate that in this tv show
... David ripping around the compound on a raspy old air cooled 80cc mx'er would be chur.

p.s he's a murdering baddie.

[Berries]

I'm just worried because the Mrs came home today swinging a crystal on a string and after two minutes she just said 'Nah, fuck cooking dinner"



Win win.