U-turns in neutral

[PrincessBandit]

Glad to hear Alex is fine! (And you too, of course) Ooops about bike; you'll have it looking like new in no time though (lucky about the faring eh).

[xwhatsit]

Um yeah, so don't try and to U turns coasting in neutral. It's a recipe for disaster. Broken mirror, brake lever, turn signal, nicked muffler and bar end.. and thats all the damage! I had my fairings off for maintenance.. Lucky!

Had a very sore foot for a long time after doing something similar. Doing a U-turn in second gear with clutch fully engaged on a cold engine (my bike does not carburate well until it's properly warm), engine coughed and farted for just a second at part throttle. I had a decent angle of lean, and the engine braking for a half second or so pulled the bike down to the ground like a stone. Put my foot out as a reflex. Didn't drop it but limped for the rest of the day Now I make sure either I'm in a low enough gear to keep the revs high or I simply slip the clutch all the way around (then precise throttle control isn't an issue).

Of course the biggest hurt was that I did it in front of three attractive international students

[skidMark]

What kind of tard trys to turn any corner with having some throttle open or at least in gear...

if you hit neutral and dont wannt goto first slip your foot under and click 2nd...

only takes a fraction of a second to do so

[KoroJ]

...........Well, in a tight slow turn (like a U turn) you can tip the bike in deeper by countersteering, or pick the bike up using the same method, but you CANT pick the bike up with countersteering when you have FULL LOCK steering on. .........

I think you'll find that countersteering is a result of the gyroscopic action of the front wheel, therefore if the wheel is hardly turning there is no countersteering. Slow U turns rely on balance, the right blend of clutch-slip / throttle / rear brake, but probably most importantly keeping your head up and looking through to where you want to go.

[skidMark]

I think you'll find that countersteering is a result of the gyroscopic action of the front wheel, therefore if the wheel is hardly turning there is no countersteering. Slow U turns rely on balance, the right blend of clutch-slip / throttle / rear brake, but probably most importantly keeping your head up and looking through to where you want to go.

you should never countersteer under about 15-20 kph... even then i only do it for quik tip in then end up slightly turning the wheel into the corner.... you can't really hold countersteer on big lean unless in real tight twisties doing 50-60 k...

or at least 100 around a 65... i find any less and i dont steer as suh, but proper ountersteering to me is fast enough that you have to keep the ountersteer on to stop the bike standing up... which obviously doesnt apply in u turns...

and DB thats pretty retarded to turn full lock when u turning, i only ever go full lock when i'm at walking pace...

anything more and theres a thing called lean

if your feet are on the pegs.... you shouldnt be turning full lock... if you are going fast enough to balance with your feet on pegs... you shouldnt be full lock... its just asking for trouble

[bogan]

think you guys may be refering to different uses of countersteering, db means the bar push type when you steer to change the bikes lean angle, whereas skidmark means race style countersteering round the whole corner due to the different widths and geometrys of tyres at max lean. Well thats my theory anyway.

Theres nothing wrong with full lock u turns, you just have to remember to lean the bike up again you give it more gas, rather than turn into the corner, means you can do far tighter u-turns.

[MarkH]

Quick check - neutral light is on.. No biggie, I'll just coast around the U turn and pull up by his drivers' window, so I fling the bike over into the U turn, aaaand oops we're bit far over, so I turn in and go to goose the throttle, aaaand varrooom! Uh oh! Neutral! BIG foot dab, brake HARD! STOP! CRUNCH! FUCK!!!

Um yeah, so don't try and to U turns coasting in neutral. It's a recipe for disaster.

I would like to thank DB here for posting that account. I would rather read about a mistake like this and remember it than to make the mistake myself. We can all learn a lot from the mistakes of others and some of us try hard to do so. Without people willing to recount the tales of things gone wrong we would have a much harder time learning lessons without the cost in repairs & bruises.

So I offer a genuine thanks to Steve!

[retro asian]

Learnt an awesome tip at NASS last wednesday.
(We were practicing doing U-turns in a 2-car park width.)

If you lean opposite to the way you are turning, it makes it easier to rescue your bike (put inside foot down) if you suddenly don't have enough power to keep upright!!

[CookMySock]

Thank you MarkH.

Learnt an awesome tip [...] lean opposite to the way you are turning

Yeah thats good innit. For a right-turn, I sit sideways in the seat (right thigh across seat) and it's FAR easier to look behind me during the turn. This is safer, but also it is where I should be looking during any tight turn. It allows the bike to be leaned further into the turn and more steering lock used, while keeping the bike balanced and stable at low speed.

Steve