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Thread: Motards in Group one?

  1. #1
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    Motards in Group one?

    I am thinking seriously about the safety of the Motards and sportsbike riders in group one (the fast group) of any current track day event.

    Last week I attended a trackday and almost had a major as I was cut off in a major kinda way by a impatient prick on a sportsbike, I certainly felt in a bad place afterwards, and I aint no prude on the track

    here are the issues as I see it, you guys can (and no doubt will contribute to this)

    1/ Sportsbike riders I find are often very impatient (at times) in passing a slower bike, especially a Motard as many think they shouldnt be there (I believe) for whatever reason.

    2/ I find alot of Motard riders should not be in group one (by default) as they just dont have the skills to be fast enough (frankly)

    3/ The Speed difference in the straights is to great, Im at 180kmph a good sportsbike rider will be at 260kmph

    There is the argument that Motards take different lines, but I dont buy into this as in a trackday situation everyone is taking different lines including sportsbikes, and lines isn't the issue at a trackday event, same as the foot out crap.

    I have made a small video to highlight my point (as best I can) and I have discussed it with the event organisers who will be looking into it tonight, however I would like to hear from other trackdayers what their experiences have been, with a Motard and Sportsbike mix

    Im advocating that race motarders only go in group one , or , All motarders go into group two.

    Whats your thoughts?

    Im not interested in anyone bagging motards if you want to do that ya can fuck off as its a fast growing and popular class that has every right to be there as does anyone.

    Here is the movie

    Ive run out of fucks to give

  2. #2
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    in honesty from viewing the vid, I cant see the drama. The passes were'nt dangerous.

  3. #3
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    Im Starting to see this was a waste of time.
    Ive run out of fucks to give

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by t3mp0r4ry nzr View Post
    in honesty from viewing the vid, I cant see the drama. The passes were'nt dangerous.
    Quasi...considering it's the fast group, then quite honestly from that video I didn't see anything dangerous. The sportsbikers didn't seem impatient in the way they were passing. Big speed differential towards the end of the back straight but are you saying the 2 smoke 250's and 400's shouldn't be there either? Putting the fast motard riders into the medium group would cause more mayhem when inexperienced sportsbike riders suddenly find a motard parked in front of them mid-corner (they do weigh fark all, stop rather quickly and take different lines).

    I get more pissed off by trackdayers (be they on motards or sportsbikes) passing then immediately swerving right in front of you and slamming on the brakes. Bit farkin stupid doing that right in front of an older/heavier bike on a trackday if you ask me.
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  5. #5
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    I was a shit house club racer in the eighties, and could only get my head around racing by sliding 1/2 out of control on a chair in dirt, but I think I see where Quasi is coming from. That speed differential would certainly scare the crap out of me. (if I was on the retard). MHO

  6. #6
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    So Referencing back to my original post

    1/ Sportsbike riders I find are often very impatient (at times) in passing a slower bike, especially a Motard as many think they shouldnt be there (I believe) for whatever reason.

    2/ I find alot of Motard riders should not be in group one (by default) as they just dont have the skills to be fast enough (frankly)

    3/ The Speed difference in the straights is to great, Im at 180kmph a good sportsbike rider will be at 260kmph

    You think that having a slower Motard is okay and you dont mind slowing down until its safe to pass ? as it doesnt seem to be the case in actual fact.

    You think that a slow few motards in group one is an okay thing?

    You think that a speed differential to this level is okay?

    I would like to hear from those who actually have ridden in group one.

    As a note also I never said the video content was dangerous, it is a demonstration of the speed difference as well as I think it captures the frustration of the fast sportsbike rider well.
    Ive run out of fucks to give

  7. #7
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    I can see what you are trying to do, and the speed differential IS dangerous.

    However, even limiting group 1 to race motarders... I have seen plenty of race motarders that would be too slow for group 1.

    The most dangerous situation on the track imho is when two fast bikes are racing each other, the 2nd bike is quite blind to the view of the track ahead, especially if they are tucked behind the 1st bike. If you have significantly slower bikes in the same group, the danger is amplified. Quite relevant for motards speed down the straights.

    From that vid, I wouldn't say the sportsbikers were impatient. I've owned sportsbikes and now own a supermoto, and don't think I'm particulary biased either way.

    I would say that simply, some of those people might not have been graded for the groups properly, unless the sportsbike was an exceptionally fast one.
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  8. #8
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    Being the Nana that I am in Group 4, i've had a few issues with Motards with us newbies.

    One such incident saw me very nearly run off the track, had a Motard on the outside of me, carrying much more corner speed than I into the corner, and cutting across the front of me, with a completely different line. Freaked me out a little bit, but I suspect the rider was more of a cock than anything else.

    Perhaps they could go to 3 groups, and 1 for Motards to keep the track time and setup the same. Assuming that there is enough Motards to run a separate group.

    Looks like a shitload of fun, and I guess that towards Group 1 where people are pushing it a little more, it could be an issue to have two groups that take completely different, and competing lines.

    That said, I don't know dick about Motards, other than I want to go.
    "It would be spiteful, to put jellyfish in a trifle."
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  9. #9
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    Yep, it's a bugbear of mine. I haven't been riding my motard in group 1 for exactly the reason of the speed differential on the straight bits. Not being allowed in group 2 at motoTT means the only other option is group 3. So I spend most of my laps trying to get around (read: avoid running into the back of) the less experienced sports riders.

    If anything the motards SHOULDN"T be allowed in group 3, but allowed in group 2. A group 2 rider is more likely to have more track experience compared to a group 3 rider. Then motard riders have a choice.

  10. #10
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    Should have shown a bit more vid of you getting taken round the
    outside mate !!!
    the vid most certainly shows what happens when a
    couple of sportbikes catch up to a
    group of motards, no arguments there !
    More often than not
    the
    S/bikes are having a bit of a battle and yes there could be
    a
    little
    impatience there !
    But i think
    the idea of
    putting the tards
    in
    group 1 was that most s/bike riders in group 1
    should have the
    abilities to get
    round them safely !
    There are some in
    group 2 who
    can do
    the
    same speeds as group 1
    but
    don't have the same ability !
    Edit : donno whats up
    with my keyboard
    gggrrrrr
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    The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"

    Bowls can wait !

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post

    One such incident saw me very nearly run off the track, had a Motard on the outside of me, carrying much more corner speed than I into the corner, and cutting across the front of me, with a completely different line. Freaked me out a little bit, but I suspect the rider was more of a cock than anything else.
    Yeah thats just someone being a knob. After riding both sports bikes and a motard you can just about take any line with the motard, where you're somewhat restricted with the sports bikes. There's no excuse for unsafe riding and cutting people up no matter what you're riding.

    I dont want a dedicated motard group because I like riding with everyone. The safe passing rules are there for this and should be enforced instead of just copping out with the "different lines" routine. (not aimed at you).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinfull View Post
    There are some in
    group 2 who
    can do
    the
    same speeds as group 1
    but
    don't have the same ability !
    If they dont have the experience or skills to pass people safely, they shouldn't be in group 2.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil View Post
    If they dont have the experience or skills to pass people safely, they shouldn't be in group 2.
    Shall we put them in the
    novice class ?

    IMHO Quasi i think status quo is ok, they are only track days after all ! If you move Motards into G2 your still going to have issues
    And being trackdays S/bikers in G1 need to
    show patience and motards need to be aware they will be
    passed !
    A girlfriend once asked " Why is it you seem to prefer to race, than spend time with me ?"
    The answer was simple ! "I'll prolly get bored with racing too, once i've nailed it !"

    Bowls can wait !

  14. #14
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    This is in reference to a 4 group MotoTT day.
    Group 3 would be appropriate.

  15. #15
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    BTW Quasi et al...

    Motards will not be excluded from any group at the Hampton Downs Ride Days. Expect them to be anal about safe passing.

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