Iraq ?

[wari]

It's a bit of a worry ... Do you reckon the world should start a war with them?

And whats going to happen if an invasion takes place ?

And what will happen if we dont ?

[Will Beard]

Nostradamus predicted a golden fire over an eastern culture. followed by a war that would last 25 years, with peace that would last 1000 years.

I see the twin towers attack as the golden fire.

I see a war with iraq & its terrorist cells as being unaviodable.

we are all well to criticise if there is loss of life that could have been stopped due to a simple thing;
ie seatbelt, road barrier, drunk driver,etc,etc.

buckle up people were in for a nasty ride if we dont act by supporting the usa & the coalition.

i want them stopped before they reach our shores, being an x soldier im in.
dont think were imune
remember the rainbow warrior.

[moko]

Who set up and supported Saddam,trained his air-force,sold him the poison gas and thought it was o.k. when he was killing Iranians?,Same people who did the same for Osama,former C.I.A. operative,threw money at him,trained the Taliban(In Scotland by the S.A.S. would you believe).Hunt down the idiots who play power games in mainly Britain and the U.S. and make them explain themselves when you`re looking for bad guys,how many major conflicts since WW2 have been with people trained and armed at massive expense by the west,usually to kill others to further "our" ends,then the same ones dont do what Washington or whoever want and they spend yet more millions,get even more people killed fighting them? Examine almost any conflict anywhere and you`ll usually find meddling from the C.I.A.,MI6 or Brit/U.S. government at the end of it.the guys who trained Bin laden,backed Saddam,covertly mess around with the lives of other people normally end up with a nice fat pension while thousand die in the chaos they`ve created.
probably very controversial this but I`ll say it anyway.I reckon the australian people,if not the Government were set up by their "allies" with the experience of terrorism that we have over here the general opinion is that sending in australian troops to Afghanistan and not expecting them to hit back is incredibly naieve.The Australian government should have been prepared for,and warned it`s citizens against an act such as happened in Bali,maybe because in britain we`ve seen that kind of thing far too often we`re a lot more aware of the risk of such things.I doubt very much whether Bush and his faithful hound explained to the Aus P.M. when they asked for troops that it would make each and every Australian a target in certain eyes.
Back to Iraq,majority view here is that Bush just wants the Oil,being a great democracy like we are the P.M. in particular dosnt give a shit about what the majority want,Saddam needs sorting out but not with a massive conventional invasion,that`s just insanity and it`ll all end in tears.There`s a good chance it`ll end the political career of Tony Blair before Saddams

[SpankMe]

Pope Urban II arrived in France in August 1095, to see to the reform of the Church there. He sent letters from Le Puy, calling for a general Church council in November at Clermont. He spent September and October visiting and reforming in various towns, arriving in Clermont in mid-November.

The Council met 18 through 28 November, 1095 with three hundred clerics attending. The Council passed reforming decrees in keeping with the Cluniac reform movement, including ones concerning simony and clerical marriage. At this Council, too, King Philip of France was excommunicated for adultery.

The pope also made an announcement that a public session would be held Tuesday 27 November at which the pope would make an important speech to the general public. This created a good deal of interest, and many people from the surrounding areas came to Clermont to hear the pope's words.

On the day of Urban's speech, the assembled crowd was so large that they could not fit everyone into the cathedral, so the papal throne was set up in an empty field outside the eastern gate of the town. Those in attendance included many commoners in addition to local nobility. The great nobles of Europe, however, the kings and dukes and so on, were not there. Urban's invitation had only gone out locally.

Pope Urban II was a powerful speaker; all our sources indicate that the speech he delivered that day was moving and memorable. We have several accounts that differ in detail, but the following delivers the general sense of his message that day.

The noble race of Franks must come to the aid their fellow Christians in the East. The infidel Turks are advancing into the heart of Eastern Christendom; Christians are being oppressed and attacked; churches and holy places are being defiled. Jerusalem is groaning under the Saracen yoke. The Holy Sepulchre is in Moslem hands and has been turned into a mosque. Pilgrims are harassed and even prevented from access to the Holy Land

The West must march to the defense of the East. All should go, rich and poor alike. The Franks must stop their internal wars and squabbles. Let them go instead against the infidel and fight a righteous war.

God himself would lead them, for they would be doing His work. There will be absolution and remission of sins for all who die in the service of Christ. Here they are poor and miserable sinners; there they will be rich and happy. Let none hesitate; they must march next summer. God wills it!

Deus vult! (God wills it) became the battle cry of the Crusaders.

[moko]

Originally posted by SpankMe


Deus vult! (God wills it) became the battle cry of the Crusaders. [/B]

Which proves what exactly?,the Crusaders eventually got booted out and the Mosque is still there,so whose side was God on?,the same one Muslims,and Jews worship as well as Christians.

[Cuban]

i think that the U.S. if it wants any credibility to its 'terrorism' war needs to denounce israel for its incursions after 'suspected militants' and firings on market places full of civillians. israel, as far as im aware has been violating the agreement it signed under clinton(oslo accord?) for some time and backing it up with US funded tanks and troops.
And as far as i can see, bush is on a money grabbing exercise, getting control of oil and deleteing an opponent to their foriegn policy( they already tried in Venezuala(i cant spell) earlier this year, with their botched coup, because he supported Castro and sold him oil).
I think that if Iraq is holding terrorists and nuclear weapons and can be proven to, by a team of inspectors that dont include former CIA or MI6 members(as the last team did), then the UN, not the US, has the ability to replace hussein, and hold elections within IRAQ, not letting the US set up a puppet dictator that will not oppose Israel and give it free access to the countries oil reserves.
its all messed up, but the US cant go pushing everyone around, ignoring mandates and all that, especially when it has its bluff called. The UN is set up to deal with this sort of situation, and it shouldnt be controlled by the US because it has the larger military and economic force. The UN wanted nothing to do with any of this until the US said it would go it alone, making a mockery of the whole organisation...
i find it Ironic that the US is denouncing these people now, when they were the force that created them, but they were ok when they were threatening Soviet citizens, its only now that their 'vile and cowardly' acts and being recognized by the US.

[SPman]

This is a tricky question. The UN should go in and remove Saddam, his family and his cronies who hold Iraq in a state of fear whilst bleeding it dry. Kids starve to death, there is no money for medical supplies, minorities and anyone who says anything against the regime are persecuted, killed, etc, yet Saddam, his family and cronies have US $13,000,000,000 in stashed fortunes, palaces, toys etc.!!!!
A good friend has an Iraqi boarder who was initially against the yanks going in, because of the new master being as bad as the old, fear, but he is now of the opinion, nothing could be worse than what is going on in Iraq. If it takes the Yanks to finally get rid of Saddam, then by all means do so (he says). And this is from a guy who distrusts the US (and CNN) from his experiences in the Gulf War!

[boris]

All wars bad.ok!. I must say i do not like the USA. Just look at all the crap they put out, THe tv programes and music are teaching the kids all the wrong morals.

Boris

[SPman]

My ideal war would be to get all the world leaders (Political AND Religious), all the military leaders and their henchmen and every other macho posturing bastard, and put them in a huge paddock ringed with barbed wire to beat the shit out of each other, until there is only one person left standing. Then I'd congratulate the victor and shoot him in the head ! Then we could carry on with our lives with a bit more peace and security (maybe) ...............

Ah well, back to the real world.

[Coldkiwi]

So that was all in December...

what do you guys think now?

My personal view is that

a)Saddam and his sons are very bad men

b) George Bush is not the sharpest knife in the draw who can seem the bigger picture of what he is instigating

c) The UN (bar a miracle) is going to be worse off in the next few days because they will either

i) not provide a resolution to deal to Iraq for failure to hold to its previous resolutions (most numerous and all flouted) or

ii) let the US/UK/Aussies go in there and start a war just because they want to without any legal backing from the Security Council (even if they didn't get a Veto vote they still wouldn't have a majority).. consequently the UN will be left completely toothless with a dangerous precedent set for unsanctioned violence by any member states.

I think it's all quite screwed up really and it's only going to get worse (North Korea with a rabid leader who looks like he wants to pick a nuclear fight, Indonesia with a strong fanatical element and unstable military and Bin Laden is still roaming free (no doubt rubbing his hands at having yet another excuse to hit back at The Great Satan)

[Coldkiwi]

my bad typo.... George bush... who CAN"T seem to see what he's instigating

[MikeL]

Coldkiwi, you express clearly the worries many of us have about the real motivation behind this war. Saddam is no doubt a cruel dictator whose people would be better of without him, but Bush is a f***wit who is willing to sacrifice international diplomacy and delicate relationships, as well as alienate many countries whose sympathies would naturally lie with U.S. liberal democracy rather than middle-eastern despotism, but, faced with monumental arrogance (combined with a frightening religious fundamentalism/fanaticism) will be pushed towards defending the right of undemocratic governments to defend their sovereignty against unjustified aggression.
Having said that, let's hope that the Americans and their allies win a swift, relatively bloodless victory so that stability can be restored as quickly as possible, and, more importantly, the petrol which we put in our bikes is still available and doesn't cost the equivalent of a litre of whisky.

[Gixxer]

talking about gas, I thought the price of petrol went down?

how come the gas stations have not lowered there price?

 the US can make all the excuses in the world but it boils down to one thing "OIL"

Saddam has it, bush wants it.

 

[Coldkiwi]

You're bang on the money Gixxer

talk about greedy bastards...

The US has huge oil reserves that they're not tapping into. I can see that the US oil merchants are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of being one of the few nations left in the future with decent oil stocks when all the arab oil runs out... hence their desire to get stuck into it now. And of course, reparations for war costs incurred by the US will be dragged out of a defeated Iraq in guess what?... OIL!

like they say: Would the US have started into the Gulf if Kuwaits only produce was broccoli?

 

[wari]

I want oil too ... well , and petrol.