'He killed girlfriend due to emotional pain', court told

**peasea** · 25th July 2009, 19:47

Originally Posted by doc

Dont think so. They will be scared of him cos he such a "Loose unit"

Just keep him in a Sth Island jail and our crims will be safe. OSH will prevail

Who the hell would provoke him with his MO

Can we poke him through the bars with long sticks?
That'd be fun, I'd pay to do that.

**Winston001** · 25th July 2009, 20:10

Originally Posted by peasea

Can we poke him through the bars with long sticks?

Long pointed sticks? Ho, ho, ho. We want to use pointed sticks, do we?

Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!!

**doc** · 25th July 2009, 20:17

Originally Posted by peasea

Can we poke him through the bars with long sticks?
That'd be fun, I'd pay to do that.

Nup the way to really hurt him would be to ignore him, and give him menial tasks to do for life. Especially if the screws were all deaf mutes.

**doc** · 25th July 2009, 20:19

Originally Posted by Winston001

homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!!

They have nasty prickles. Very Monty Python. You sick barstard

**normajeane** · 25th July 2009, 20:36

Originally Posted by Winston001

Long pointed sticks? Ho, ho, ho. We want to use pointed sticks, do we?

Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!!

LOL

ACDC playing out loud on our old television at present and we both enjoy your witisms, (oh the wine helps says scummy). Why be some PC with a pointed stick?? i say...

**peasea** · 25th July 2009, 20:58

Originally Posted by Winston001

Long pointed sticks? Ho, ho, ho. We want to use pointed sticks, do we?

Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!!

I'd just tell him to jam his loganberries.

**peasea** · 25th July 2009, 21:00

Originally Posted by normajeane

LOL

ACDC playing out loud on our old television at present and we both enjoy your witisms, (oh the wine helps says scummy). Why be some PC with a pointed stick?? i say...

If you want to see cool personified it's the Scummy show on TV3, thinly disguised as 'Hot Fuzz'.

**normajeane** · 25th July 2009, 21:19

Meh, just waiting for "Hot Trolls" to be made!

**Genestho** · 27th July 2009, 09:55

Originally Posted by doc

Dont think so. They will be scared of him cos he such a "Loose unit"

Who the hell would provoke him with his MO

I beg to differ - I'd suggest, there are many loose units with grandiose delusions of superiority, and tendancies of narccism in NZ jails!
Provocation wouldn't be an issue, because someone may want "the reputation".
Ain't that how it works inside? It's a different world remember.

I know we've rung the neck out of this topic...but a couple of things....

I see the defence of provocation may be removed as a legacy to Sophie.
Now, I can see why - with her character torn to shreds after her tragic demise, and I don't have a problem with the why.

But are we being objective here?

I note Judith defended Gay Oakes with provocation - granted it failed.
(Interesting she would use this defence again under the evidence in this trial)

But can our resident bush lawyers clarify something for me please?

The difference between self defence and provocation.

Is provocation based on a relationship between offender and victim?
And self defence, defense from a strangers attack?

A scenario, your home is invaded by a group of men, you are gang raped, beaten, they've told you they will kill you when finished, you have an opportunity to fight for your life, and an offender is killed, self defence or provocation?

You're raped and beaten within an inch of your life constantly over time by your partner, you kill him, self defence or provocation?

What are the legal definitions between self defence and provocation, and can we afford to do away with this provocation defense?

**Winston001** · 27th July 2009, 11:37

Originally Posted by T.G.W

What are the legal definitions between self defence and provocation, and can we afford to do away with this provocation defence?

I wish there was a simple answer. FWIW there are whole chapters in legal texts on these questions. Here is a c&p:

"Provocation does not make an unlawful homicide excusable or justifiable. It does, however, provide a defence to a charge of murder and it entitles the accused to have his offence reduced from murder to manslaughter. In this respect it differs from self-defence which, if established, provides the complete answer to a charge of murder."

"Self defence - The test involves three steps:

First, what the accused believed the circumstances to be from his or her point of view.

The second is whether, bearing in mind the belief of the accused about what was happening, he or she was acting in self defence considered from the accused’s point of view.

Third, given that belief, the force used in self defence was actually reasonable."

**Genestho** · 27th July 2009, 12:23

Thanks Winston, for the clear and conscise C&P! Bling awarded!

I see the difference Sir!!!!

I can see this will be rather complex....

**oldrider** · 27th July 2009, 20:04

Just tuned in to 60 minutes on TV3, Clayton Weatherston is the son of a man that I know personally very well.

I could not ever see anything in the characteristics of his parents that their son could ever turn out like Clayton has. (still no remorse, still the victim?)

I really do feel desperately sad for his parents and siblings but Clayton and his lawyers are the pits in my estimation!

**short-circuit** · 27th July 2009, 20:15

Originally Posted by oldrider

Just tuned in to 60 minutes on TV3, Clayton Weatherston is the son of a man that I know personally very well.

I could not ever see anything in the characteristics of his parents that their son could ever turn out like Clayton has. (still no remorse, still the victim?)

I really do feel desperately sad for his parents and siblings but Clayton and his lawyers are the pits in my estimation!

His parents spoke with dignity and sincerity.

**Usarka** · 27th July 2009, 20:18

Originally Posted by T.G.W

I see the defence of provocation may be removed as a legacy to Sophie.
Now, I can see why - with her character torn to shreds after her tragic demise, and I don't have a problem with the why.

I have a problem with the proposed law change. He tried a defence and it failed, and now National are using Labour's patented knee-jerk^TM law making policy.

The only reason her character was torn to shreds was because *we* fed the tv news rating machines and watched every last second of his defence.

The hundreds of thousands of people who paid so close attention to this trial are just as guilty for smearing her character.

**Genestho** · 27th July 2009, 20:27

Oh believe me, I question whether doing away with the provocation defense is a good idea.
Not all offenders are created equal.
I'd suggest we Stop. Breathe and Think this one through.

And you're right "our" need to be fed the gorey details, therefore feeding the networks and magazines - their ratings, is insatiable.

Thread: 'He killed girlfriend due to emotional pain', court told

Thread Tools

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions